Ammar calls Thai govt plan to be medical hub evil and crazy

[webfact]

Ammar calls plan to attract foreign patients 'evil' and 'crazy'

Prominent economist Ammar Siamwala Friday called for the government to stop its plan to be a medical hub. He said the policy had already adversely affected the public health system by diverting resources, including physicians, from public hospitals to treat foreign patients instead of the poor in rural areas.

"Medical Hub is the worst policy that the government could ever think up," he said.

Ammar was speaking at the "2010 Thailand Pharmaceutical Summit", organised by the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers Association (PReMA).

The medical hub project, initiated in 2003 by the Thaksin Shinawatra government, included three medical service facets: sickness prevention, spa services and Thai massage. It also promoted Thai herbal medicine products.

-- The Nation 2010-10-29

[inmysights]

I totally agree with Ammar. Here on Phuket you have a choice between the Bedlam, non-carers that are the Wachira, and The Mills that are the Bangkok International (what a joke, I asked one of the doctors in Oncology/ICU why none of the staff spoke English (note, not broken pidgin, at best) and was haughtily told 'This is Thailand, we speak Thai'! I replied 'And this is supposed to be an international hospital, with international prices! prck) .

Going out into the countryside (Takuapa) is far worse. My husband was sent home having been told 'You smoke too much'. And that was it! That's all he was told! He died just one month later.

Bit better in Bangkok, at least there's the St Louis, Patumvetch, but still far more money making 'mills' way out of the reach of the ordinary working Thai. And it's been getting worse, year on year. Where's the Thai concern for his fellow Thai there then?

Edited October 29, 2010 by inmysights

[slapout]

Had a teenage daughter who was diagnosed with dengue fever. Two doctor visits, one hospital visit over the first four/five days of fever, etc and she was told to take pill and return to school. The school nurse recognized what she had and called the wife to get her to hospital. The hospitals in CM seem to looking for ways to bill for larger sums instead of diagnose and treat. Sounds like Ammar should be in the health ministry in some capacity.

[geriatrickid]

Finally, the voice of reason. The economist is playing it smart by blaming former PM Thaksin instead of the current administration.It is the current administration's plan that is creating the potential for a public health catastrophe by diverting crucial limited resources away from the public sector to the private sector. The major proponents of the medical hub strategy are the big hospital chains owned by a small group of people. This group is not a backer of the former PM Thaksin. However, if the economist came out and called the current plan alone bad, it would never fly, so what better way to get around the political minefield to mention Thaksin and deflect attention? The current adminstration can save face.

The original Thaksnin administration plan that emphasized medical prevention strategies, spa services and Thai massage had a low impact upon the public health care sector as these were for not primary health care activities. Under the Thaksin plan, resources were not diverted from the public sector. The currrent strategy is imposing pressure on the public sector by creating the conditions that will cause physicians and specialists to abandon the public hospital system. The results are now being seen by way of staffing shortages in non major urban centers. The incentives to practice in the boonies of Surat Thani, or Surin, just aren't there anymore.

And in case anyone wants to cry conflict of interest, PreMa has a dilemma on its hands. Under the public health care system the pressure to hand out incentives to hospitlas and doctors is far less than under the free for all of a private hub emphasis. Private health care allows for the sale of the more expensive proprietary drugs, which the local companies can manufacture or distribute under license. The public sector approach allowed for the local companies to manufacture and develop local generic versions of "popular" drugs either on or mostly off license. From a business perspective, the generic option is more lucrative to the local manufacturers and to Thailand since it supports the existing companies and contributes to the creation of intellectual capital. On the other hand the role of license mnanufacturer and/or distributor means fewer employees, less investment in skills and infrastructure, but tidier profits.

The medical hub strategy also raises the spectre of ethical public health practices. As resources are drained out of the public sector, the likelihood of the medical care system descending into the abyss of unethical practices is increased. To date, these medical hub notions in Mexico and India have been an unmitigated disaster. Patients are returning to their homelands with an increasing number of botched procedures and resistant infections. India was recently in the news because of several patients that contracted antibiotic resistant life threatening complications at a chop shop. Unnecessary and dangerous surgeries are undertaken in these hubs that serve only to generate profits for many unethical physicians and their hospital groups. Often, some of these doctors have had their licenses revoked in other jurisdictions. This is particularly evident with some Mexican clinics. Unfortunately, prospective patients really cannot find out about such things.

The public health care sector must be supported until such time as the quality of the health care delivery system ensures that all Thai citizens have access to affordable medical care. A failure to do this will see an increase in child mortality and a resurgence of serious illness that was formerly treatable and preventable. protect the public health care system and one protects the economic and public security of Thailand.

Edited October 29, 2010 by geriatrickid

[swifty5x5]

I see. Medical hub with doctors who do not want to take responsibility for their actions. I think I would go to a country where you can sue your doctor for malpractice.

[Soi Sauce]

Finally, the voice of reason. The public health care sector must be supported until such time as the quality of the health care delivery system ensures that all Thai citizens have access to affordable medical care. A failure to do this will see an increase in child mortality and a resurgence of serious illness that was formerly treatable and preventable. protect the public health care system and one protects the economic and public security of Thailand.

Fantastic post. Respect.

[kuffki]

Putting aside his reasoning.

To be a medical hub you have to offer some kind of assurances.

Thailand has no medical malpractice laws, rules or regulations.

Anyone even considering coming over for a surgery would be a total nutcase.

Yes you may save some bucks, but you may also end up disables with no recourse what so ever and this is speaking from experience(had a surgery that went wrong and to fix they want i pay again the full price, but of course no guarantees)

Just the other week, i picked up some flue, high fever, cough, etc.

Went to the hospital, had blood tests, xrays and then was told that she(doctor) did not know what was wrong. So i was to go home and if fever of 39 does not come down in 2 weeks to come back. Wow did she have to study to come up with this one?!

[hayden5650]

Hub this, hub that.

They should stick to what they're good at, being the prostitution hub of the world.

[mamypoko]

Am I missing something....Thailand, more than many other countries, IS a medical hub.

Hub this, hub that.

They should stick to what they're good at, being the prostitution hub of the world.

[hayden5650]

Am I missing something....Thailand, more than many other countries, IS a medical hub.

Hub this, hub that.

They should stick to what they're good at, being the prostitution hub of the world.

For what? Cheap willy-chopping operations with implants thrown in? The number of amputees begging around sukhumvit speaks volumes about healthcare in Thailand.

[Thai at Heart]

Finally, the voice of reason. The economist is playing it smart by blaming former PM Thaksin instead of the current administration.It is the current administration's plan that is creating the potential for a public health catastrophe by diverting crucial limited resources away from the public sector to the private sector. The major proponents of the medical hub strategy are the big hospital chains owned by a small group of people. This group is not a backer of the former PM Thaksin. However, if the economist came out and called the current plan alone bad, it would never fly, so what better way to get around the political minefield to mention Thaksin and deflect attention? The current adminstration can save face.

The original Thaksnin administration plan that emphasized medical prevention strategies, spa services and Thai massage had a low impact upon the public health care sector as these were for not primary health care activities. Under the Thaksin plan, resources were not diverted from the public sector. The currrent strategy is imposing pressure on the public sector by creating the conditions that will cause physicians and specialists to abandon the public hospital system. The results are now being seen by way of staffing shortages in non major urban centers. The incentives to practice in the boonies of Surat Thani, or Surin, just aren't there anymore.

And in case anyone wants to cry conflict of interest, PreMa has a dilemma on its hands. Under the public health care system the pressure to hand out incentives to hospitlas and doctors is far less than under the free for all of a private hub emphasis. Private health care allows for the sale of the more expensive proprietary drugs, which the local companies can manufacture or distribute under license. The public sector approach allowed for the local companies to manufacture and develop local generic versions of "popular" drugs either on or mostly off license. From a business perspective, the generic option is more lucrative to the local manufacturers and to Thailand since it supports the existing companies and contributes to the creation of intellectual capital. On the other hand the role of license mnanufacturer and/or distributor means fewer employees, less investment in skills and infrastructure, but tidier profits.

The medical hub strategy also raises the spectre of ethical public health practices. As resources are drained out of the public sector, the likelihood of the medical care system descending into the abyss of unethical practices is increased. To date, these medical hub notions in Mexico and India have been an unmitigated disaster. Patients are returning to their homelands with an increasing number of botched procedures and resistant infections. India was recently in the news because of several patients that contracted antibiotic resistant life threatening complications at a chop shop. Unnecessary and dangerous surgeries are undertaken in these hubs that serve only to generate profits for many unethical physicians and their hospital groups. Often, some of these doctors have had their licenses revoked in other jurisdictions. This is particularly evident with some Mexican clinics. Unfortunately, prospective patients really cannot find out about such things.

The public health care sector must be supported until such time as the quality of the health care delivery system ensures that all Thai citizens have access to affordable medical care. A failure to do this will see an increase in child mortality and a resurgence of serious illness that was formerly treatable and preventable. protect the public health care system and one protects the economic and public security of Thailand.

Very enlightening post.

I would be interested to understand the smaller details of what is causing this movement to the private sector under this current administration.

[rkidlad]

The ony people who should shut up and not talk about politics are the politicians themselves!

Working class are the people who move this country. Educate them and this would be a much better country.

[mkawish]

I totally agree with Ammar. Here on Phuket you have a choice between the Bedlam, non-carers that are the Wachira, and The Mills that are the Bangkok International (what a joke, I asked one of the doctors in Oncology/ICU why none of the staff spoke English (note, not broken pidgin, at best) and was haughtily told 'This is Thailand, we speak Thai'! I replied 'And this is supposed to be an international hospital, with international prices! prck) .

Going out into the countryside (Takuapa) is far worse. My husband was sent home having been told 'You smoke too much'. And that was it! That's all he was told! He died just one month later.

Bit better in Bangkok, at least there's the St Louis, Patumvetch, but still far more money making 'mills' way out of the reach of the ordinary working Thai. And it's been getting worse, year on year. Where's the Thai concern for his fellow Thai there then?

Sorry to hear about your husband.

You oughta take legal action against that no good physician.

Many times I opted for inexpensive govt hospitals. The wait is long but then I got plenty of time to finish up my correspondence and to chichat with whomever.

Many private hospitals are modernizing themselves to look like resort reception facade which is pretty amazing.

Now it appears everyone Thai or Farang alike are being charged with at least 100 THB extra itemized as Other Medical Incidental.

[mkawish]

The ony people who should shut up and not talk about politics are the politicians themselves!

Working class are the people who move this country. Educate them and this would be a much better country.

It appears like you are the only one who passed econ101.

You are so right--it is the middle class who moves and shakes the country.

We will see what most middle class will do this:

TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 2010.

The middle class Thai will gather to protest the govt move trying to secretly approved the giving away of Thailand pieces of land to Cambodia in the neighborhood of 1,000,000 RAI....

The protest will take place around 8 am in front of the govt building where the secret voting will take place.

Protestors are encouraged to bring along their sleeping gears, just in case, they have to put more pressure on Apisit to stop deceiving the general public for whatever reasons.

[contemplating]

What is with Thailand trying to be the "hub" of everything? How about the hub of garbage filled beaches, or hub of scams.

[BennyC]

Hub of retired curb crawlers?

[Pria]

It's the latest "grand plan" of TAT. Seriously, someone there must go to bed at night and have a wet dream and wake up in the morning with this totally stupid ideas. Take a look at the Singapore governments medical services website Singapore Medicine – direct contact with specialsts, the high, low and medium cost of procedures, length of stay for procedures and treatments AND it includes prices for public and private hospitals and warding options and prices for each.

This is what a medical hub should be and it's the reason why so many people go to Singapore where the doctors all speak English.

The launch last month of Thailand as a medical hub by the TAT is a total joke and only promotes a handful of large private hospitals and their elite owners.

It goes totally over the head of even so-called educated Thais that come 2015 there will be a deregulated labor market in Asean which Thailand will totally miss the benefits of from new industry establishing due to problems with labor, immigration, investment, corruption and stability.

But hey, far be it for any of us foreigners to try and tell the Thais anything - after all, they're the worlds geniuses – inventing everything from the wheel onwards.

[slapout]

Start with medical care for the ladies of the night work force and their customers. Thailand could be the hub for treating the various sexually transmuted diseases for the customers as well as giving real medical benefits to a debatable portion of the Thai female/male/it population.

[spiderleghead]

Hub this, hub that.

They should stick to what they're good at, being the prostitution hub of the world.

woo hoo

[sirchai]

Hub of retired curb crawlers?

Hub of " Don't stop when you see an accident."?? :jap:

[inmysights]

Start with medical care for the ladies of the night work force and their customers. Thailand could be the hub for treating the various sexually transmuted diseases for the customers as well as giving real medical benefits to a debatable portion of the Thai female/male/it population.

So that's your priority, right? Put STDs in front of the queue of cancer teatment/education on prevention, diabetes, necrosis ad infinitem. Just make sure the ho's an their johns are taken care of first. Christ.

[sirchai]

Putting aside his reasoning.

To be a medical hub you have to offer some kind of assurances.

Thailand has no medical malpractice laws, rules or regulations.

Anyone even considering coming over for a surgery would be a total nutcase.

Yes you may save some bucks, but you may also end up disables with no recourse what so ever and this is speaking from experience(had a surgery that went wrong and to fix they want i pay again the full price, but of course no guarantees)

Just the other week, i picked up some flue, high fever, cough, etc.

Went to the hospital, had blood tests, xrays and then was told that she(doctor) did not know what was wrong. So i was to go home and if fever of 39 does not come down in 2 weeks to come back. Wow did she have to study to come up with this one?!

I can pretty much imagine how you're feeling about these Khun Moos....I had a motorcycle accident last year and broke my leg five times. The Isan doctor implanted a plate which was holding all the broken bones together and promised me it would be okay after six months.

I left Thailand after 10 months of suffering, pain and all the monthly appointments with the doc who just came every Wednesday, waiting all morning to see him laughing for about 10 seconds.

After seeing a more educated doctor who saw my X-rays, I decided to go to Europe for medical treatment.

Now I know why you can see crippled people almost everywhere. A motorcycle insurance is only covering 13,000 baht.....

For all who're driving around, please think about an extra insurance, otherwise you'll be fuc_ked. :jap:

[sirchai]

I totally agree with Ammar. Here on Phuket you have a choice between the Bedlam, non-carers that are the Wachira, and The Mills that are the Bangkok International (what a joke, I asked one of the doctors in Oncology/ICU why none of the staff spoke English (note, not broken pidgin, at best) and was haughtily told 'This is Thailand, we speak Thai'! I replied 'And this is supposed to be an international hospital, with international prices! prck) .

Going out into the countryside (Takuapa) is far worse. My husband was sent home having been told 'You smoke too much'. And that was it! That's all he was told! He died just one month later.

Bit better in Bangkok, at least there's the St Louis, Patumvetch, but still far more money making 'mills' way out of the reach of the ordinary working Thai. And it's been getting worse, year on year. Where's the Thai concern for his fellow Thai there then?

Sorry to hear what happened to your husband.

I've been in Takuapa a few years ago, the problem is mostly that you won't find a specialist when you need one.

What could an eye doctor do if you're having inner bleedings??? Etc..................

You shouldn't get sick on weekends, because there's normally no doctor with a kind of a knowledge available. :jap: