What Are You Guys Talking About?

[canuckamuck]

We've all been there; you need to have a detailed conversation with someone who speaks no English (for example a mechanical problem with your car or something that you are trying to have made) and you have brought a Thai friend to interpret. So you make your opening sentence and the translation begins. You think it is going to be like in the movies, where you say something, your translator says what you say. You also think that the same will happen in reverse and you will hear everything the other side is saying. But that isn't what happens is it?

What actually happens is this: You say your first bit, and then your translator has a 5 – 10 minute conversation with the other guy. After a while your translator will get back to with one or two sentences that frequently have very little to do with what you you were trying to explain. And so you begin again through the process of being rude and interrupting and asking what are you guys talking about? You eventually get some type of agreement worked out.

Now my Thai has gotten a lot better, and now I interrupt in Thai and I can tell when they are getting of track, but outside of public speaking, I have never had the experience where the translation goes word for word and the translator adds nothing of their own.

One thing I find really frustrating is when you translator is trying to tell you what the other guy said, and as soon as he starts the other guy begins re explaining which draws your translator back into a conversation and you get nothing for 5 more minutes.

Can anyone relate?

[sarahsbloke]

Position the translator so he cannot be seen or make eye contact with the other person.

Sitting them in a chair behind the other person is particularly effective.

I find that Thai people really only want to talk with other Thais.

But you are right .... it's bloody annoying!

Edited October 30, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[dogleg]

Oh Yeah! Who'd have thought that the Thai word for 'radiator hose' is longer than this thread?

[Birdman]

what about learning the language? that's no fun, but it can be done. Invest 2 years of intense learning and then............you probably are not allowed any more to enter the repairshop.....

[canuckamuck]

what about learning the language? that's no fun, but it can be done. Invest 2 years of intense learning and then............you probably are not allowed any more to enter the repairshop.....

Working on it

[GuestHouse]

What's more annoying, though far more revealing, is asking a question in the Thai language and then having the person you have asked respond to any Thai person you happen to be with as if you where not there.

Extreme case:

I was once in a Tailors with my wife, I was talking to the Tailor's daughter giving instructions on some alterations I wanted doing to a pair of jeans - She listened to what I had to say, then responded to my wife and followed up by asking my wife if I was single or not.....

To this day my wife pinches my arm every time we go past that particular shop.

[Birdman]

What's more annoying, though far more revealing, is asking a question in the Thai language and then having the person you have asked respond to any Thai person you happen to be with as if you where not there.

Extreme case:

I was once in a Tailors with my wife, I was talking to the Tailor's daughter giving instructions on some alterations I wanted doing to a pair of jeans - She listened to what I had to say, then responded to my wife and followed up by asking my wife if I was single or not.....

To this day my wife pinches my arm every time we go past that particular shop.

maybe your Thai was not sufficient understandable or polite enough, or there was something else

[Kwasaki]

what about learning the language? that's no fun, but it can be done. Invest 2 years of intense learning and then............you probably are not allowed any more to enter the repairshop.....

With the greatest of respect mate, l had come here to retire not go back to school the Thai l have learnt is all the Thai my Mrs wants me to learn.

Coming maybe from a different angle l find when l speak Thai l have to say it about three times because l think it takes the Thai person l am speaking to a while to fiqure out that l am a Farang actually speaking Thai or at least trying to, so l go back to pidgen English and they know immediately what l am on about.

[roamer]

what about learning the language? that's no fun, but it can be done. Invest 2 years of intense learning and then............you probably are not allowed any more to enter the repairshop.....

With the greatest of respect mate, l had come here to retire not go back to school the Thai l have learnt is all the Thai my Mrs wants me to learn.

Coming maybe from a different angle l find when l speak Thai l have to say it about three times because l think it takes the Thai person l am speaking to a while to fiqure out that l am a Farang actually speaking Thai or at least trying to, so l go back to pidgen English and they know immediately what l am on about.

I normally find that when Thai's have a problem understanding the farang its because the vocabulary is insufficient to overcome the tone problems. For most purposes if you can put enough words together, however poorly pronounced, you will be understood by the sentence context.

[Birdman]

what about learning the language? that's no fun, but it can be done. Invest 2 years of intense learning and then............you probably are not allowed any more to enter the repairshop.....

With the greatest of respect mate, l had come here to retire not go back to school the Thai l have learnt is all the Thai my Mrs wants me to learn.

Coming maybe from a different angle l find when l speak Thai l have to say it about three times because l think it takes the Thai person l am speaking to a while to fiqure out that l am a Farang actually speaking Thai or at least trying to, so l go back to pidgen English and they know immediately what l am on about.

that's quite ok, just stand off complaining about everything not to be understood here......

Edited October 30, 2010 by Birdman

[canuckamuck]

What's more annoying, though far more revealing, is asking a question in the Thai language and then having the person you have asked respond to any Thai person you happen to be with as if you where not there.

Yes I get this too, it drives me nuts because they understand what I said but they respond to my wife. It's as if I was a parrot just memorizing sentences with no idea what the words meant.

Of course the opposite reaction can also occur and they begin to speak to you at full speed assuming you are fluent

[GuestHouse]

maybe your Thai was not sufficient understandable or polite enough, or there was something else

I'm inclined to think 'there's something else'. The something else I suspect is the habit many Thai people have of switching their ears off when a foreigner speaks to them.

The best example of that I have experienced is when I once called the bank to arrange to a transaction, I'd already spoken face to face with manager and had agreed to call with the necessary details so that the bank could get the paperwork ready, I'd then need to come into the bank to sign off on the transaction.

My conversation (in Thai) with the bank manager when perfectly well.

My conversation over the phone (in Thai) with the bank clerk (Let's call him Khn Sompop - someone I was yet to meet face to face) went perfectly well.

When I called at the back to sign off the paper work my conversation (in Thai) with the female bank clerk went perfectly well, she asked me to take a seat while she fetched Khn Sompop who was dealing with my transaction.

My face to face conversation (in Thai) with Khn Sompop didn't go so well - From the outset he looked uncomfortable dealing with this foreigner sitting across the desk from him. When I spoke to him in Thai explaining who I was and that we had spoken over the phone earlier that day he went blank, turned to the female clerk next to him and asked her to help interpret what I was saying.

So now I am having a face to face conversation via an interpreter with someone who I had a perfectly understandable conversation with over the phone.

I was getting pissed off.

The following was all in Thai.

I asked are you Khn Sompop? Pause while the female clerk interprets for him - Yes came the reply.

Are you the only Khn Sompop at this bank? - After interpretation - Yes came the reply.

I asked him to kindly wait for me while I pop out to my car.

I stepped out of the bank, called the bank on my mobile phone and then asked to speak to Khn Sompop.

While having a perfectly understandable conversation with him, explaining who I am and why I've come to see him I walked back into the bank and sat down in front of him.

Every single detail that I had given him over the phone earlier in the day was correctly recorded in the paperwork - He understood me over the phone but switched his ears off when I was talking to him face to face.

That's an extreme case, but I've seen dozens and dozens of other examples of Thai people switching their ears off when a foreigner speaks Thai to them.

Edited October 31, 2010 by GuestHouse

[sarahsbloke]

I'm inclined to think 'there's something else'. The something else I suspect is the habit many Thai people have of switching their ears off when a foreigner speaks to them.

.........

Every single detail that I had given him over the phone earlier in the day was correctly recorded in the paperwork - He understood me over the phone but switched his ears off when I was talking to him face to face.

That's an extreme case, but I've seen dozens and dozens of other examples of Thai people switching their ears off when a foreigner speaks Thai to them.

I get it too, solved by asking for paper and pencil and writing it down in Thai ...... they seem to understand bad spelling/missing tone marks very easily.

(of course it doesn't work with the many Thais who are unable to read and write Thai)

Edited October 31, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[JusMe]

Same thing can happen in Japanese. A number of years ago, a friend of mine who was fluent in Japanese, had a conversation with someone there. As they began their conversation, the man said he really preferred to try it all in English. They stumbled for a few sentences in English and my friend easily slipped back into Japanese. After a five minute conversation, the Japanese man said, "Ahh, Engurish not so difficut!."

[Loz]

to the op, yes i've felt your pain. now i in alone and speak in thai. cut the problem off at the source.

[yermanee]

I have had may similar experiences during my many years here in Thailand, and I hate it with a vengeance.

If this happens in I shop when I ask information about a product I want to purchase, I just turn around and go elsewhere.

For the other experiences where I need the information pigeon English is a blessing.

Yermanee

[canuckamuck]

The best example of that I have experienced is when I once called the bank to arrange to a transaction <snip>

That was a great illustration, I will remember it.

Edited October 31, 2010 by canuckamuck

[floridaguy]

As a luk krueng, when I lived in the US, I would never had dreamed of trying to speak Thai to anyone there. I grew up there, and have an American accent, but I was often told to go "back to FILL IN THE BLANK WITH COUNTRY OF CHOICE" based only on the way I looked.

I wouldn't dream of living here and not learning the language, or any country for that matter. We are not here as conquerors, bending the local culture and language to our needs. If you live here, you owe it to your host country to learn the language. How would you react if you were in your country and someone became upset because you didn't understand them speaking in some other language? The only official language of Thailand is Thai. If you live here, learn it.

I may be coming off as harsh, but I never get angry at someone who doesn't understand my often off-tonal Thai. That is my problem, not theirs.

[Kwasaki]

As a luk krueng, when I lived in the US, I would never had dreamed of trying to speak Thai to anyone there. I grew up there, and have an American accent, but I was often told to go "back to FILL IN THE BLANK WITH COUNTRY OF CHOICE" based only on the way I looked.

I wouldn't dream of living here and not learning the language, or any country for that matter. We are not here as conquerors, bending the local culture and language to our needs. If you live here, you owe it to your host country to learn the language. How would you react if you were in your country and someone became upset because you didn't understand them speaking in some other language? The only official language of Thailand is Thai. If you live here, learn it.

I may be coming off as harsh, but I never get angry at someone who doesn't understand my often off-tonal Thai. That is my problem, not theirs.

l never get angry, and it is easy to say learn the language but for some of us, like me say, with my London accent it just doesn't seem to work,.

l just laugh. My Mrs is the important one to me and that what count in my book, l refer to my post writen before No. 9. :jap:

[Loz]

i say learn the language if it will help you. i live alone so it matters. if your wife will translate to your satisfaction, cool. if not, plan b. some of course will have to fight loved ones to learn. its not in their interests. but that's a new thread for chunky one.

[bermondburi]

Some interesting posts. Definitely learn the language. I would say that it took me four years to gain the required level of fluency and now after twelve years of living here and six years of marriage I never have any problems in Thai. Very rarely do I have to repeat myself. I had no formal learning as such. Just years of saying the same fuc_king words over and over again thousands of times. The same conversations over and over again with the details getting more and more as the years go by. I can only presume that it is true what they say and that practice does make perfect ( not that I'm saying I'm perfect but you get my drift ). Without knowing how exactly I just think that after a while ( X many years ) you just get it right.

To people doing stuff with their wives all the time. Are you men or mice ? Does your wife wipe your ass for you. Start doing stuff for yourself and your life here will improve and you will have a lot more control over what happens here. Knowledge is power.

Regarding the translation. I think you can do fairly direct translation. Some things don't translate too well and a Thai or English word might have a long winded equal. I do this with my children all the time. They tend to speak Thai to me alot although it is getting better. Whatever they say to me I translate it and make them say it again in English. It's not too hard. I would say to the OP maybe you should choose your interpreter with more care. Also, does the interpreter actually know what they are talking about. Not making stereotypes but a woman in a garage going over an engine problem ?

Last point. But on having children here the way Thai people talk to you and treat you totally changes. Thais tend to see that you have bought into the country and as such are some kind of shareholder ( albeit one with no voting rights ha ha ha ) and as a result of this they kind of know that you must speak Thai to some level. Especially when said child is yabbering away at you ten to the dozen.

[PattayaParent]

What's more annoying, though far more revealing, is asking a question in the Thai language and then having the person you have asked respond to any Thai person you happen to be with as if you where not there.

Yes I get this too, it drives me nuts because they understand what I said but they respond to my wife. It's as if I was a parrot just memorizing sentences with no idea what the words meant.

Of course the opposite reaction can also occur and they begin to speak to you at full speed assuming you are fluent

My ex used to just tell them to talk to me as I speak Thai and walk away.

[Loz]

Bermondburi for president!

Yes on all counts. HOWEVER....

The flip side of "Knowledge is Power" is that, " Ignorance is Bliss"

I think more people "here" are looking for bliss because they have learned, in a relationship with a woman, power is an illusion!

Language gives you more power, but does she really want you to have that power. The booty aspect to the relationship WILL eventually wear thin. She knows that. So here insurance is your dependence on her. If you are fluent in Thai, that weakens her policy value. Then she might have to start giving you kids...

Cynical? ME!!!

[Loz]

What's more annoying, though far more revealing, is asking a question in the Thai language and then having the person you have asked respond to any Thai person you happen to be with as if you where not there.

Yes I get this too, it drives me nuts because they understand what I said but they respond to my wife. It's as if I was a parrot just memorizing sentences with no idea what the words meant.

Of course the opposite reaction can also occur and they begin to speak to you at full speed assuming you are fluent

My ex used to just tell them to talk to me as I speak Thai and walk away.

My best female friend does this too! I &lt;deleted&gt; love her for it! I remember distinct occasions early on when I was getting to know her where it was most comical. I stopped to ask directions in the car. She had told me exactly what and how to say it. I delivered my line and the bloke at the gas station looked straight across me to her. She was looking out the window so all he got was a look at her pony tail. Perplexed, he acquiesced to answer me, and that was the beginning of our 4+ friendship. It plays out well at restaurants too. I can't tell you how much that meant to me. She is without doubt, the only person here I've met that I have unconditional love for. And she got married last month with my blessing.

If you want to know what's what. You need to at least understand what is being said. Even if you can't respond...yet.

[canuckamuck]

Some interesting posts. Definitely learn the language. I would say that it took me four years to gain the required level of fluency and now after twelve years of living here and six years of marriage I never have any problems in Thai. Very rarely do I have to repeat myself. I had no formal learning as such. Just years of saying the same fuc_king words over and over again thousands of times. The same conversations over and over again with the details getting more and more as the years go by. I can only presume that it is true what they say and that practice does make perfect ( not that I'm saying I'm perfect but you get my drift ). Without knowing how exactly I just think that after a while ( X many years ) you just get it right.

To people doing stuff with their wives all the time. Are you men or mice ? Does your wife wipe your ass for you. Start doing stuff for yourself and your life here will improve and you will have a lot more control over what happens here. Knowledge is power.

Regarding the translation. I think you can do fairly direct translation. Some things don't translate too well and a Thai or English word might have a long winded equal. I do this with my children all the time. They tend to speak Thai to me alot although it is getting better. Whatever they say to me I translate it and make them say it again in English. It's not too hard. I would say to the OP maybe you should choose your interpreter with more care. Also, does the interpreter actually know what they are talking about. Not making stereotypes but a woman in a garage going over an engine problem ?

Last point. But on having children here the way Thai people talk to you and treat you totally changes. Thais tend to see that you have bought into the country and as such are some kind of shareholder ( albeit one with no voting rights ha ha ha ) and as a result of this they kind of know that you must speak Thai to some level. Especially when said child is yabbering away at you ten to the dozen.

I understand where you are coming from; obviously speaking the language is the cure. I am working on it and I have gotten a lot better, but it is going to be while longer before I can do the technical speak, kow jai mai?

But what I am getting at here is the problem with practice of translation. There is always going to be someone who needs a translator and what I was observing is that there doesn't seem to be any way to get your point across without the two Thai speakers having a meandering chat. In a perfect situation the translator shouldn't need to know anything about the subject; they should just be the telephone. If I know what I am talking about why shouldn't I have a full part in the conversation instead of having two people guessing at what I really mean.

It is almost as if the two Thais need to work it all out for me without asking me any questions, I guess it is that face thing getting in there and messing things up.

[Loz]

{snip}

It is almost as if the two Thais need to work it all out for me without asking me any questions, I guess it is that face thing getting in there and messing things up.

No, IT IS EXACTLY THAT but for what, reason, I can not speculate.

I like to play with classic bikes, so I learned the lingo. I like to fish, so I learned the lingo, I like to Golf, so I learned the lingo, I like to eat, so I learned the lingo. Before I knew it, I was picking up hugely transferable lingo. Now when the flood damage affects my starter and I need a new " Fuang " Starter Gear " I can ask for it and understand the options of new, recon, or plain old second hand. I can also understand that Jap parts are better than Chinese parts. I can also understand the prices and how long it will take. Transferable language, you feel me?

[canuckamuck]

{snip}

It is almost as if the two Thais need to work it all out for me without asking me any questions, I guess it is that face thing getting in there and messing things up.

No, IT IS EXACTLY THAT but for what, reason, I can not speculate.

I like to play with classic bikes, so I learned the lingo. I like to fish, so I learned the lingo, I like to Golf, so I learned the lingo, I like to eat, so I learned the lingo. Before I knew it, I was picking up hugely transferable lingo. Now when the flood damage affects my starter and I need a new " Fuang " Starter Gear " I can ask for it and understand the options of new, recon, or plain old second hand. I can also understand that Jap parts are better than Chinese parts. I can also understand the prices and how long it will take. Transferable language, you feel me?

Was that you? I felt something.

[Loz]

{snip}

It is almost as if the two Thais need to work it all out for me without asking me any questions, I guess it is that face thing getting in there and messing things up.

No, IT IS EXACTLY THAT but for what, reason, I can not speculate.

I like to play with classic bikes, so I learned the lingo. I like to fish, so I learned the lingo, I like to Golf, so I learned the lingo, I like to eat, so I learned the lingo. Before I knew it, I was picking up hugely transferable lingo. Now when the flood damage affects my starter and I need a new " Fuang " Starter Gear " I can ask for it and understand the options of new, recon, or plain old second hand. I can also understand that Jap parts are better than Chinese parts. I can also understand the prices and how long it will take. Transferable language, you feel me?

Was that you? I felt something.

My reach is deep, y'all

[bermondburi]

Bermondburi for president!

Yes on all counts. HOWEVER....

The flip side of "Knowledge is Power" is that, " Ignorance is Bliss"

I think more people "here" are looking for bliss because they have learned, in a relationship with a woman, power is an illusion!

Language gives you more power, but does she really want you to have that power. The booty aspect to the relationship WILL eventually wear thin. She knows that. So here insurance is your dependence on her. If you are fluent in Thai, that weakens her policy value. Then she might have to start giving you kids...

Cynical? ME!!!

Depends on your choice of partner but what woman with half a brain really wants to have to do everything for the other half. I know my wife doesn't and I wouldn't want to have to do her shit as well as my own. Got enough to deal with with two kids. Get a wife not a babysitter. I am amazed when I see grown men being treated like the kids.

I see where your cynicism comes from and you definitely see it in a lot of relationships where some guys need to wake up and see what a manipulative little bit@# the wife is. It is also interesting to note when some so called " angel " turns out to have a mouth like a sewer and every other word is " I " this or " I " that. I even knew of one bloke whose wife called him "mung" when she was talking about him to my wife. He thought the sun shone out of her ass! Like you said " Ignorance is bliss " !!!

[canuckamuck]

My reach is deep, y'all

Edited November 1, 2010 by canuckamuck