Thai-English Schools Worry Lack Of Native Speakers

[sarahsbloke]

I am a native English speaker and I had no problem with his dialogue. I think that is part of the problem in teaching English. People want to use only words that are currently popular and get all hung up on the grammar. The first time I took Thai lessons it was in a class advertised for beginners. Having been here two weeks I thought that qualified me. Was I ever wrong. thy were teaching a few words but mostly it was grammar for a language I could not speak. Let them learn the language then teach them grammar and how to tell the in words. They would have a better Chance of learning then. JMO

debonair .......... .

His use of this word identifies him as an Indian national

(who might frequent India's best sex entertainment blog website).

I agree his post was understandable, but his English students posts wouldn't be, like a photocopy, every subsequent generation gets worse.

It's why, mainly, only qualified native speakers should be used in language courses.

Edited November 1, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[animatic]

I am not a native English speaker, but my spoken English is quite more debonair and crisp than that of 75% of the English people I have met in Thailand.

Not that I have any desire to teach anyone English language but i can use English language to instruct college students in Pure sciences.

When I was in the university, though its was a British school but it was 5000 kilometers from UK borders, I had some friends major in English language, even as I was not so much impressed with their English skills, I would feel they also deserve equal chance to teach the language to a non speaker.

But a good teacher is not produced by origin or paper qualification, good teachers have unique abilities that is not easily acquired.

Sorry to point this out, but you are quite clearly not a native English speaker and while meaning no insult your written English is quite strange.

Words like 'debonair' are no longer used, went out of use in the 1960s, and not useful in the context you have written. (means handsome, well dressed man). Also refers to an India blog and sex site.

Never seen 'crisp' used in this way, 'quite and more' you only need one of those words.

'produced by origin or paper' is just wrong as are several other combinations of words.

Sentence structure is unusual, past and present tense is confused.

I am assuming you come from India, they often use very old text books, way out of date.

You would not be suitable to teach English, assuming the student never becomes better than the teacher ...... they would be talking nonsense.

Yes your English may be understandable in some ways.

I would also have to agree with sarahsbloke.

While we do know what you are saying, it is not without its share of English language imperfections. I will intentionally delve into the vernacular of everyday speech from several subcultures, and I also add less used choices of words and phrases, just to make things less repetitive here. But I can, without question write in proper, grammatically correct English, if I choose to. Thus I can easily tell when idiomatic phrases are placed in a sentence, rather than strictly grammatically correct ones. I find you are attempting to add idiom to your writing, but at the expense of clarity and directness. While not instinctively having a grasp of English grammar at the base of it all.

So yes, ESL, but clearly not native. Carry on.

(This is written in the style of H. P. Lovecraft. as is yours, but not as clearly.)

( sarahsbloke writes more like David Foster Wallace.)

Edited November 1, 2010 by animatic

[dominique355]

In the past 3 years I have helped setting up a program where teachers from rural Thailand, who teach English but do not have a degree in English, can come to Bangkok for 3 weeks and get a training at the Language Institute of a reputable university. My group pays the language course and the MoE pays for the accommodation and transportation.

Every year we sponsor between 60 and 80 teachers. The level of their knowledge in English very low to medium, some can hardly put together a sentence.

If someone here would like to contribute, please contact me. The amount per teacher needed is THB 8,000. Any amount is welcome.

It is very rewarding to how their level improves after just 3 weeks of intensive training.

But why does it need private initiative to improve the teachers' qualification?

[marquess]

I often wonder why we see non native English speakers employed in schools to teach English.

55,000 a month for a qualified English or general class teacher ?

Good qualified staff do not even get out of bed for that salary.

And schools with EP/MEP still provides a Thai-style environment, so students do not adopt "Western values".

Therein lies the cause of failure, one needs to understand the culture of the language and the adoption of those Western values so as one can actually enhance the use of the language one is learning so as to become proficient in the use of the target language.

Teachers from other cultures and countries are expected to jump through hoops via the T.C.T.

Sad to say the quality of the T.C.T. Thai lecturers is very poor, a poor command of English an inability or reluctance to actually answer question when posed as it is seen as an insult to the lecturers ability and of course standing.The idea of teaching is based on an information exchange system, that information which a lecturer gives out returns as an answer or a question to actually drive home the salient point.

The ability to dance, the inevitable question do you like Thai food the inane conversations, questions that are indeed far removed from the reality of the classroom all combine to make the T.C.T. course even unworthy of being implemented in a kindergarten programme.

Yet again another example of ''squeeze as much money out of a foreigner as you can'' mindset.

55,000 per month, please tell me where. I know of some universities that only pay 25, 000 to start and then really lousy yearly increases - after 6 /7 years you might be lucky to be paid 35,000.

I have been at the same university for 11 years and am still receiving the same pay.

Might one possibly suggest that you are at the wrong university! Most the ones that I have worked at start out on lowish salaries but their is an increment every year.

[evanson]

When I learned Italian (privately) and French (in school) I was taught by a native speaker.

I don't care how good the filipinos speak English, it's not their native language. Have you ever heard a Thai speak English, having been taught in India? Weird

Fact is this xenophobic (note the words 'not to be exposed to Western culture (sic)) country wants to keep it's people ignorant of the world and it's plethora of ideas, outside Thailand. Many Thais I 've spoken with are woefully ignorant of anything beyond their own doorstep.

Hmm, why's that d'ya think?

More of an assumption or yours I presume.

Native speaker or Non native speaker, that is the question.

It is the quality of the person or lack herein to teach. Not everyone has it in their blood and can do it well. Not even the true Native speaker. I can't fly an airplane or helicopter. Could learn, but not sure how good I would be at doing it. WOULD IT BE BETTER FOR A PILOT TO TEACH ME OR A COMPUTER? Probably can learn from both if i was an exemplary student who excelled in that area. Maybe, maybe not!

Sure I can speak Thai fairly really well, French and Spanish passing, but everything is always up to the student and then how well the teacher does, but I beg to differ the matter regarding native or non native speaker as a general rule of thumb for who is best..

So basically needing to have a NATIVE speaker is Hog Wash unless you want them to sound as a carbon copy, being, sounding like the same country as their Native Speaker teacher.

England and the US have many different areas, rural and city, counties, states, and just differnet areas that have different sounding styles of spoken English. So which is best?, cockney or London sound or the one sounding like a mouth full of marbles; New York or California for what sound is better? 6 one half the other and no one can answer for act of being prejudice or cocky.

In the US, Mexicans and Latinos have Native speaking teachers, but they still have their almost hereditary sound that will last forever, not ever changing.

You know that hereditary sound that always sounds as if it swoops up. Eh esseh ? But they speak good, can converse, but not all or so of them many using good grammar.

I just don't buy the statment that a Native Speaker is worth more their weight in Gold.

uncletom

Ever heard a student speak Italian having been taught by an Irish teacher? Orrrrr, English from an Australian? LOL !

And Californians and people from Noo Yawk are not Native English Speakers. Geddit?

[evanson]

I am not a native English speaker, but my spoken English is quite more debonair and crisp than that of 75% of the English people I have met in Thailand.

Not that I have any desire to teach anyone English language but i can use English language to instruct college students in Pure sciences.

When I was in the university, though its was a British school but it was 5000 kilometers from UK borders, I had some friends major in English language, even as I was not so much impressed with their English skills, I would feel they also deserve equal chance to teach the language to a non speaker.

But a good teacher is not produced by origin or paper qualification, good teachers have unique abilities that is not easily acquired.

Sorry to point this out, but you are quite clearly not a native English speaker and while meaning no insult your written English is quite strange.

Words like 'debonair' are no longer used, went out of use in the 1960s, and not useful in the context you have written. (means handsome, well dressed man). Also refers to an India blog and sex site.

Never seen 'crisp' used in this way, 'quite and more' you only need one of those words.

'produced by origin or paper' is just wrong as are several other combinations of words.

Sentence structure is unusual, past and present tense is confused.

I am assuming you come from India, they often use very old text books, way out of date.

You would not be suitable to teach English, assuming the student never becomes better than the teacher ...... they would be talking nonsense.

Yes your English may be understandable in some ways.

I would also have to agree with sarahsbloke.

While we do know what you are saying, it is not without its share of English language imperfections. I will intentionally delve into the vernacular of everyday speech from several subcultures, and I also add less used choices of words and phrases, just to make things less repetitive here. But I can, without question write in proper, grammatically correct English, if I choose to. Thus I can easily tell when idiomatic phrases are placed in a sentence, rather than strictly grammatically correct ones. I find you are attempting to add idiom to your writing, but at the expense of clarity and directness. While not instinctively having a grasp of English grammar at the base of it all.

So yes, ESL, but clearly not native. Carry on.

(This is written in the style of H. P. Lovecraft. as is yours, but not as clearly.)

( sarahsbloke writes more like David Foster Wallace.)

[evanson]

In the past 3 years I have helped setting up a program where teachers from rural Thailand, who teach English but do not have a degree in English, can come to Bangkok for 3 weeks and get a training at the Language Institute of a reputable university. My group pays the language course and the MoE pays for the accommodation and transportation.

Every year we sponsor between 60 and 80 teachers. The level of their knowledge in English very low to medium, some can hardly put together a sentence.

If someone here would like to contribute, please contact me. The amount per teacher needed is THB 8,000. Any amount is welcome.

It is very rewarding to how their level improves after just 3 weeks of intensive training.

But why does it need private initiative to improve the teachers' qualification?

Because the Thais are tightfisted and would prefer their serfs not to have the necessary ability (ie international language) to access ideas other than the ones rammed down their throats since birth.

[siampolee]

Indeed amusing comments regarding salaries ,My monthly salary goes into the bank and I assure you it is way above 55,000 a month after tax etc. I also receive a yearly bonus payment and I have a private healthcare scheme as part of my salary package, my teaching load is some 17 hours a week within an English Programme teaching English and social studies.

I am a qualified teacher, who trained initially as a primary teacher and I then went further with my personal professional development portfolio, thus I am also capable of, and do teach years 7, 8 and 12 .

The assumption that all teachers teach English is somewhat skewed as many teachers within the local system are actually specialist teachers in other subjects.

Petedk and Artisi

I would suggest that you both take the advice proffered by Marquess and widen your horizons. I have colleagues who teach at university and their salaries are at a minimum level of 55,000 baht a month plus other increments.

If you have the skills and are a qualified native speaker of English the salary levels are good.Top end international schools pay upwards of 150,000 baht a month plus housing and home leave air fares and contract completion bonuses, Many if not all of the mid level international schools pay around 80,000 baht a month and similar extras as outlined above.

Edited November 1, 2010 by siampolee

[NHJ]

I often wonder why we see non native English speakers employed in schools to teach English.

/quote]

to my point of view, native english teachers are not interesting exept for students who already have a high level of english comprehension, to start to learn english you need a teacher from your native language that speaks an almost perfect english to teach you the little differences between your language and english.

i studied english in belgium with a belgian teacher who speaks with the harvard accent, much better than an english native speaker that can barely speaks my native language.

or then they need english native that speaks fluent thai but this might be very difficult to find....

[petedk]

Might one possibly suggest that you are at the wrong university! Most the ones that I have worked at start out on lowish salaries but their is an increment every year.

Yes, you are right. I work at a government university and every year they talk about being privatized and that the salaries will go up so I keep hanging on. Only last week they talked about making the university "an internationally recognized research university" but this seems to go on and on.

I now have my age against me as I am now over 50.

[siampolee]

i studied english in belgium with a belgian teacher who speaks with the harvard accent, much better than an english native speaker that can barely speaks my native language.

Methinks the above post is indeed the hallmark of someone who suffered at the hands of a non native English language teacher.

NHJ .

I am not belittling your English language usage, however the education you received in the use of English from your Belgian Harvard accented teacher is hardly a qualified success as we see a rather low standard in its written presentation in the above post.

You had what could best be described as, " A bum deal." regarding English language education.

Any language needs to be taught by a native speaker of that language. .

[afarang]

The article title ("Thai-English Schools Worry Lack Of Native Speakers") is one of the worst I've seen here, and ironically it's about teaching English.

For more clarity, it should be renamed to "Thai-English Schools Worry About Lack Of Native English Speakers".

Actually,should be:: worry about THE lack. -------

[SergeiY]

debonair .......... .

His use of this word identifies him as an Indian national

(who might frequent India's best sex entertainment blog website).

I agree his post was understandable, but his English students posts wouldn't be, like a photocopy, every subsequent generation gets worse.

It's why, mainly, only qualified native speakers should be used in language courses.

Bullshit.

If it indicates something then the use of debonair hints that its more likely that he speaks maybe french too. Meanwhile you seems to have a limited active vocabulary of the English language. Are you sure you went to an university?

I agree with the other opinion here, a language teacher hasn't necessary to be a native speaker; and people who repair roads for a living should stick to that and not become a teacher in Thailand.

[siampolee]

I now have my age against me as I am now over 50.

Rubbish, I took up my last position at the age of 62 and that was 4 years ago. I had been retired for 3 months., Money was not nor is a problem, however boredom and social contact was lacking. I love my wife and our three boys but I must have mental stimulation.

Believe in yourself, there is no such word as, ''can't.''

It's a case of, ''I can, I will, I am , I have."

[afarang]

Phillippino teachers are an excellent alternative to Westerners for teaching English to young kids. The Phillipino teachers at my kids' school speak very clear and grammatical English (unlike their Thai counterparts) but also have the same family-orientated culture as Thais.

The suggestion that the Ministry set up or run an agency for checking credentials is a good one. Countries like the UK have a paedophile and sex offenders register that should be checked, but as far as I'm aware such information is not given to foreign school employers.

However, the real problem with English proficiency in Thailand is not primarily down to the quality of the teachers, but the design of the curricula. Unfortunately, most schools and universities leave the overall design of the curriculum and the way it is to be assessed to the Thai staff, employing foreigners to carry out their ideas in the classroom.

Even when foreigners are employed as consultants, their advice is often ignored or rejected. I've seen this happen both internally and externally; e.g., with employed foreigners and even when the MoE has paid for expensive 'visiting experts' to come from the US and other places and 'train' Thai educators at weekend workshops and conferences. As soon as the workshop is over, the Thai staff announce to their own staff (including employed foreigners) that 'that's all very nice in theory, but it isn't suitable for our students'.

Sigh.

Philipinos speaking grammatically correct English? Never seen it myself.But they are liked here as they are CHEAP to employ. As are Indians. Which is why they are preferred to native speakers. There are 2 private universities, which in the past refused to employ Native Speakers, only employing non first language speakers.I had reason to complain, as the work at uni level , grammatically speaking, was so appalling.Complaint fell on deaf ears. You cannot tell a Thai they are wrong. Or there is a problem, especially ,when it will interfere with their profit. Forget the students, they are only important ,so long as they pay

[afarang]

answer is obviuos. english people cannot afford to come here due to the strong baht. teachers need to use some of there own money. they need about 30 k to do TEFAL coarse plus the pay is not all that.

can barley live of it

Love your post. Absolutely gorgeous. Barley? Where would be without it? NO BEER. Life not worth living

[petedk]

I now have my age against me as I am now over 50.

Rubbish, I took up my last position at the age of 62 and that was 4 years ago. I had been retired for 3 months., Money was not nor is a problem, however boredom and social contact was lacking. I love my wife and our three boys but I must have mental stimulation.

Believe in yourself, there is no such word as, ''can't.''

It's a case of, ''I can, I will, I am , I have."

Oh, I believe in myself but it seems to me that many places here in Thailand now set an age limit of 50.

Edited November 1, 2010 by petedk

[Scott]

Please restrict your replies to the content of the post and not to the poster.

Stay on-topic.

[TAWP]

I agree with the other opinion here, a language teacher hasn't necessary to be a native speaker; and people who repair roads for a living should stick to that and not become a teacher in Thailand.

Yes, please.

My teacher back home in upper secondary school was Swedish but she spoke with a very pure upper class dialect of British English and knew her grammar back to front. She wouldn't be qualified to teach Thai students, but some British plumber that has a degree in whatever from 1969 is?

[BigC]

Retrospectively thinking , the only true qualified teacher is a teacher that has a teaching credential from his or her University. But some people who don’t, make excellent teachers, so to speak naturals.

Most foreign English teachers in Thailand either have a degree and a TEFL or only a TEFL.

In most instances, I have met and seen foreigners without degrees who are more capable in using and teaching the English language compared to someone who has a degree but did not major in English. Funny isn’t it?

The prerequisite for teaching English in Thailand should be, do a legitimate TEFL course, get the TEFL Certificate, and then mandatorily have all schools give the applicant proficiency exams to determine whether or not they are up to standard and suitable to teach English in the Grammatical or conversational sense. If they can pass, then they should be hired, but wait, let us not forget that last exam they need to pass in order to really get hired, the psychiatric examination. Lot of them off their rockers and mentally disturbed in some capacity or another.

The Thai English programs also encompass other subjects taught using English, so in reality the proficiency tests should encompass what subject(if not English)one is trying to be hired for, an English proficiency test, and a psychiatric examination.

uncletom

psychiatric examination. ??? Thailand !!!

[chantorn]

I often wonder why we see non native English speakers employed in schools to teach English.

55,000 a month for a qualified English or general class teacher ?

Good qualified staff do not even get out of bed for that salary.

And schools with EP/MEP still provides a Thai-style environment, so students do not adopt "Western values".

Therein lies the cause of failure, one needs to understand the culture of the language and the adoption of those Western values so as one can actually enhance the use of the language one is learning so as to become proficient in the use of the target language.

Teachers from other cultures and countries are expected to jump through hoops via the T.C.T.

Sad to say the quality of the T.C.T. Thai lecturers is very poor, a poor command of English an inability or reluctance to actually answer question when posed as it is seen as an insult to the lecturers ability and of course standing.The idea of teaching is based on an information exchange system, that information which a lecturer gives out returns as an answer or a question to actually drive home the salient point.

The ability to dance, the inevitable question do you like Thai food the inane conversations, questions that are indeed far removed from the reality of the classroom all combine to make the T.C.T. course even unworthy of being implemented in a kindergarten programme.

Yet again another example of ''squeeze as much money out of a foreigner as you can'' mindset.

55,000 per month, please tell me where. I know of some universities that only pay 25, 000 to start and then really lousy yearly increases - after 6 /7 years you might be lucky to be paid 35,000.

I have been at the same university for 11 years and am still receiving the same pay.

However the baht have strengthen. Take that as a pay increase.

[SoftWater]

I agree with the other opinion here, a language teacher hasn't necessary to be a native speaker; and people who repair roads for a living should stick to that and not become a teacher in Thailand.

Yes, please.

My teacher back home in upper secondary school was Swedish but she spoke with a very pure upper class dialect of British English and knew her grammar back to front. She wouldn't be qualified to teach Thai students, but some British plumber that has a degree in whatever from 1969 is?

I agree; native speakers are not necessarily good language teachers. In fact, other second language learners that have mastered the target language are often more aware of learner difficulties and how to solve them more effectively than native speakers because they've been through it themselves. Native speakers are notoriously poor at teaching when they have no knowledge of the learner's own language. Bear in mind that if you try to learn Thai, you get an instant insight into the many grammatical errors Thais make in English because you can see the L1 to L2 interference (speaking English using Thai grammar rules) yourself, and have the same problem in reverse (i.e., you speak Thai using English grammar rules).

It's also false to assume that the priority in all language teaching is speaking and pronunciation. In Asia, most people need English for textual discourse (reading textbooks, reading the internet, understanding or translating official documents, conversing via textual channels via social networking, international business relations, etc ) so native speaker pronunciation is simply irrelevant in English courses that do not focus on oral skills. Obviously if you want to develop natural sounding English conversational skills you will benefit from a native speaker at some point (and let's not forget you can get plenty of native speaker listening practice without a native speaker teacher in the classroom through movies, videos, podcasts, etc), but conversation is not the only - or most important - thing that 'learning English' means in the modern world.

Edited November 1, 2010 by SoftWater

[jayjay0]

I agree with the other opinion here, a language teacher hasn't necessary to be a native speaker; and people who repair roads for a living should stick to that and not become a teacher in Thailand.

Yes, please.

My teacher back home in upper secondary school was Swedish but she spoke with a very pure upper class dialect of British English and knew her grammar back to front. She wouldn't be qualified to teach Thai students, but some British plumber that has a degree in whatever from 1969 is?

A friend of mine is a retired teacher. He taught Grammar. He told me that studies show the only ones who benefit from proper grammar are the teachers it gives them a income. Lets be real here folks you are talking about teaching perfect English grammar to a lot of people who don't want it and those that do have to relearn there idea of proper grammar. To them proper English grammar is very often backwards.

Do you people really honestly and truly believe the majority of English speakers use perfect grammar or for that matter care. Why push it on a Thai.

[uncletom]

When I learned Italian (privately) and French (in school) I was taught by a native speaker.

I don't care how good the filipinos speak English, it's not their native language. Have you ever heard a Thai speak English, having been taught in India? Weird

Fact is this xenophobic (note the words 'not to be exposed to Western culture (sic)) country wants to keep it's people ignorant of the world and it's plethora of ideas, outside Thailand. Many Thais I 've spoken with are woefully ignorant of anything beyond their own doorstep.

Hmm, why's that d'ya think?

More of an assumption or yours I presume.

Native speaker or Non native speaker, that is the question.

It is the quality of the person or lack herein to teach. Not everyone has it in their blood and can do it well. Not even the true Native speaker. I can't fly an airplane or helicopter. Could learn, but not sure how good I would be at doing it. WOULD IT BE BETTER FOR A PILOT TO TEACH ME OR A COMPUTER? Probably can learn from both if i was an exemplary student who excelled in that area. Maybe, maybe not!

Sure I can speak Thai fairly really well, French and Spanish passing, but everything is always up to the student and then how well the teacher does, but I beg to differ the matter regarding native or non native speaker as a general rule of thumb for who is best..

So basically needing to have a NATIVE speaker is Hog Wash unless you want them to sound as a carbon copy, being, sounding like the same country as their Native Speaker teacher.

England and the US have many different areas, rural and city, counties, states, and just differnet areas that have different sounding styles of spoken English. So which is best?, cockney or London sound or the one sounding like a mouth full of marbles; New York or California for what sound is better? 6 one half the other and no one can answer for act of being prejudice or cocky.

In the US, Mexicans and Latinos have Native speaking teachers, but they still have their almost hereditary sound that will last forever, not ever changing.

You know that hereditary sound that always sounds as if it swoops up. Eh esseh ? But they speak good, can converse, but not all or so of them many using good grammar.

I just don't buy the statment that a Native Speaker is worth more their weight in Gold.

uncletom

Ever heard a student speak Italian having been taught by an Irish teacher? Orrrrr, English from an Australian? LOL !

And Californians and people from Noo Yawk are not Native English Speakers. Geddit?

Yeah I get it, as well as we can say every other person from any English speaking country as well.

The true origins of English make it so to speak a mutt language! So there are no true Native English speakers ecept for me grasping out to say, since it origainlly was created by German wanderers, perhaps they are the real only ones.

Old English, Middle English, Modern English & Butchered/twisted/Fun English

Some people say that I have been here so long that my dialect use of spoken English doesn't sound American anymore. Possibly true!

But then I have also heard some peoples dialect of speech drastically change after coming back from living or from an extended stay in England or Australia. Chameleon people or not, not sure.

Way to go SF Giants!

uncletom

[SoftWater]

A friend of mine is a retired teacher. He taught Grammar. He told me that studies show the only ones who benefit from proper grammar are the teachers it gives them a income. Lets be real here folks you are talking about teaching perfect English grammar to a lot of people who don't want it and those that do have to relearn there idea of proper grammar. To them proper English grammar is very often backwards.

Do you people really honestly and truly believe the majority of English speakers use perfect grammar or for that matter care. Why push it on a Thai.

I think you're labouring under a misconception, revealed by your belief there is something called 'perfect grammar'. In English, grammar is determined by convention; i.e., it is simply the patterns, collocations, word order, and syntactic structure that native speakers actually use. There is no "ideal" grammar imposed by some 'grammar authority' - what we teach is the patterns learners need in order to be understood by other speakers of the language. Grammar and meaning are intertwined.

However, what I think you might be referring to are the stylistic rules prescribed by some teachers to ensure clarity in student writing. There are conventions for clear writing since the audience is usually not able to question an author about what they meant in person (as you can in a conversation). It's true many native speakers of a language do not follow these rules, and indeed that there is disagreement about some of the rules. Nonetheless, clarity in writing is extremely important. It may mean the difference between getting a job, a university place, a business contract, or being sued for breaking the law. For an extreme example see this amusing story of the misplaced comma.

[Lumumba]

@ Sarahsbloke,

I am neither Indian nor do I visit Indian sex blogs. I have never been to India, except if you count the one time the Plane I was in made an emergency landing in Mumbai, and some Israeli passengers refused to re-board the same plane till a local Israeli official came to personally reassure them that the problem was fixed.

I am not a native english speaker (I speak and write 3 different languages) and I do not claim to be one, but I have only been taught in English since I was 2 years old and about my choice of words, I could chose to play with less common words but I would expect a native speaker to easily understand that. If 'debonair' could mean handsome (as you said), it could also be considered gender neutral and also mean beautiful.

If I decide to write down for you a process known to people in my area of discipline as 'cracking', I know you would be lost. Anyone familiar with petroleum will easily discern that.

I met someone from Scotland at a bar in southern China, we could nt have a decent conversation, he was understanding me, but I did not think he talked back to me in English. May be i was too drunk to hear him

[SoftWater]

The true origins of English make it so to speak a mutt language! So there are no true Native English speakers ecept for me grasping out to say, since it origainlly was created by German wanderers, perhaps they are the real only ones.

uncletom

"native speaker' just refers to someone who has acquired the language from birth = "mother tongue". It carries no connotation of where they hail from or what kind of accent they have.

It can be contrasted with 'second-language speaker' = someone who has acquired another language after already developing their first language (and usually it implies that they used their mother tongue as an intermediary to learn the second language).

Bi- and multi-lingual speakers can fall across this definition depending on whether they developed more than one language from birth "naturally" or used one or more of their birth languages as a tool to acquire further languages.

[canuck1941]

But a good teacher is not produced by origin or paper qualification, good teachers have unique abilities that is not easily acquired.

You're right, Lumumba --"...good teachers have unique abilities that is (are, actually) not easily acquired. And this may be the problem the authorities face: how do you provide the best qualified teacher to the population? From the bureaucrat's point of view, someone with actual certificates has to chosen over someone who might have a wonderful track record and letters of recommendation six inches high, gets chosen because the bureacrat has to cover his ass, just in case, just to play safe. Student-centered learning has to be more an ideal to pay lip service to, and it is, IMO, the paradigm shift that needs to place in the country if educational reform is to mean anything.

[canuck1941]

I am not a native English speaker, but my spoken English is quite more debonair and crisp than that of 75% of the English people I have met in Thailand.

Not that I have any desire to teach anyone English language but i can use English language to instruct college students in Pure sciences.

When I was in the university, though its was a British school but it was 5000 kilometers from UK borders, I had some friends major in English language, even as I was not so much impressed with their English skills, I would feel they also deserve equal chance to teach the language to a non speaker.

But a good teacher is not produced by origin or paper qualification, good teachers have unique abilities that is not easily acquired.

Sorry to point this out, but you are quite clearly not a native English speaker and while meaning no insult your written English is quite strange.

Words like 'debonair' are no longer used, went out of use in the 1960s, and not useful in the context you have written.

Never seen 'crisp' used in this way, 'quite and more' you only need one of those words.

'produced by origin or paper' is just wrong as are several other combinations of words.

Sentence structure is unusual, past and present tense is confused.

I am assuming you come from India, they often use very old text books, way out of date.

You would not be suitable to teach English, assuming student nearly always worse than the teacher ...... they would be talking nonsense.

Yes your English may be understandable in some ways.

I am a native English speaker and I had no problem with his dialogue. I think that is part of the problem in teaching English. People want to use only words that are currently popular and get all hung up on the grammar. The first time I took Thai lessons it was in a class advertised for beginners. Having been here two weeks I thought that qualified me. Was I ever wrong. thy were teaching a few words but mostly it was grammar for a language I could not speak. Let them learn the language then teach them grammar and how to tell the in words. They would have a better Chance of learning then. JMO

Yes, teaching grammar is a waste of time, or I should say not a good use of the time available to teach. Children learn to speak all the languages they hear in their environments and are completely unaware of grammar. Didactic teaching, in which the teacher stands behind a podium and tells the students what to think, can be useful in teaching grammar, but the discovery method of teaching, in which the students/customers are using the langauage and discover/learn the grammar after the fact, is often more effective, more interesting, more fun, and, most importantly, more relevant to the students' situation.

[mommysboy]

A lot of this is down to teaching skills or rather lack of, at least when it comes to kids.

A degree just means you have well qualified non teacher as opposed to a moderately qualified one, and yes it can sometimes be that the non qualified teacher is more naturally talented.

A TEFL/CELTA, well that's getting better, but these courses are for teaching adults aren't they?

Especially in a place like Thailand, you will only get results with dedicated teachers, who have trained and worked within the state system in an English speaking country, primarily because they are used to academic rigour, can teach, and most importantly are adept at handling children, and all the baggage that entails.