Bangkok At Night Turns Violent Inferno Now

[Totster]

  Do you want to live in a country or raise your family in a country where you feel a need to have a gun on you at all times for protection?  If I felt that way about Thailand, I would not live here or bring up a family here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree.... getting a gun for eveyday use is just overkill... even getting a gun full stop IMHO...

If you get out a gun... they get out a gun...

totster

[Nordlys]

If you get a gun will you carry it with you in all situations just in case there is a problem?  Wiull you keep it in a small bumbag or holstered on your body when you pop into a macdonalds during the day or out with the lads for a drink at night?

No, I don't think there is a license that allows you to carry a gun with you at all times anyway (or there is?). I might seek a permit to keep it in my car though (heard it's very difficult to obtain anyway).

For home security reasons I think a gun can be a wise idea, but what happened to Y's friend could only be avoided if we all started carrying guns.  If we did that, then more than likely there would be many more murders taking places with drunk farangs shooting at each other all the time over something stupid like a spilt drink.

Well.... I don't confuse myself with people like that. I hardly drink and I don't think I would have a gun within my arm's reach at all times when I drink or whatever...

I was saying you panicked because you never have bought a gun before yet this thread seems to have made your mind up that you need one.  I see you have said you have thought about it before so I suppose that shows its less of a panic reaction.

Well yeah, I find these stories to be very disturbing and like I said, I was pretty shaken up reading them. But I haven't made up my mind about it and like I said, this isn't the first time I thought about it.

  Do you want to live in a country or raise your family in a country where you feel a need to have a gun on you at all times for protection?  If I felt that way about Thailand, I would not live here or bring up a family here.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have a choice.... I didn't choose to come to Thailand like many of you did. I do have another citizenship other than Thai but this is where I was born and where I have my life (therefore the Thai ID). I have nowhere else to live other than LOS.... well at least for now.

Edited August 6, 2005 by Nordlys

[dannishgung]

Indo-Siam siad I post this as exaggeration or as a troll when I said countless attacks to foreigners. It is excactly true in recently including recent years. Most of attacks or beating of foreigners are not reported to police or even is reported to police they are not even in any news media.

Do we remember some of the famous cases attcks to foreigners last year. Such as the shooting and dumping of a Japan Airline flight attendant by taxi driver. If she is not a Japan Air line stewardess, can this make into any news at all??She survived but did the Thai police get the taxi driver?

And about a week later this incident another stabbing of a foriegn lady and dumpingg her on the busy street by another taxi driver. She also barely survived. Did the police get this one too? No. If the lady's husband not happen to work for a consular institution, can this news get any media attention??? If both ladies are lone travlers to Bangkok, have no friends here, do you think both cases will get any police attention, not even to mention any media report.

The random murder of the Bangkok University student was not even in any main media at all. I also heard it from a friend who goes to bangkok U. And later confirmed this on another website. I can positive say that most crimes against foreigners are not even reported to police unless they are dead or close to dead.

One of my best Thai friend works for a travel agent in Silom cattering lots of Japanese or European tourists. Accoding to his publication from the Japan Travel bureau just last 2 weeks alone, 6 Jaspanese tourists have been attacked on the streets in Bangkok. 3 very seriuously. One is attacked in Jatujak Park in day light and stabbed in the stomach and rubbed in serious condition. Another on Suk soi 26 late at night also stabbed in the back and shoulder and rubbed. They survived but these reports do not make to any media as well. Unless you go and read each country's consular or travel bureau publication of traveler advisory or reports. I think German and Scandinavian countries and Japan and many other countries do track their citizens being attacked in Thailand with publication reports. If you combine all of them the cases reported to embassies and all other unreported cases recently, I have no doubt that Bangkok is getting more vicious.

In Rio, on the contrary, the crime against foriegners have decreasd to minimum. The vicious crime againt foriegners have almost all gone, maybe a case or 2 ,and they will make Rio's headline for sure, but minor crime like the ketchup or shiit on the shoes scam or pick pockets still go on. Because the Rio government is taking strong stand againt crime against foriegners by heavy patrolling with real fire arms all the way from Copacabana-Ipanema-Leblon 24 hours a day, very heavy patrol. But most important the Rio tourist police is really helping tourists and protecting the huge foriegn population. But the Thai police is not even close to compare what they are doing in Rio now to protect the foreign population.

So in Thailand, the vicious crime against forigners do happen on every day basis. On the contrary in Rio vicious crime againt forigners have gone down so much. Please call in a few major embassies in bangkok to get the recent reports, you will be very surprised if you still think like Indo Siam that Bangkok is still a peaceful heaven and all the problems are just caused by these drunken Brits or Aussies.

[Tarragona]

And if it's just one murder and one brawl, why is Mattich's driver and so many others whose Thai friends have been mentioned in this thread carry guns? 

But they and others will have been carrying guns (even in their golf bags) for many years before now - but you've never felt the need before They work for people and in positions where they feel it's advisable to be prepared.

And are you sure that when you shoot a Thai attacker the story won't be turned around with you made out to be the guilty party. I can just see the Thai media having a field day about farang on Thai violence

Edited August 6, 2005 by Tarragona

[WhiteShiva]

Quote "Like having our own drinking areas where locals can not get in..." 

I don't really think this is fair comment at all - I have never, in 13 years of living in Thailand, seen any bar where locals could not enter (excluding the Japanese Only bars of course).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well the japanese bars are of course the most obvious - I have always found the sign "Japanese only" offensive. But I have been out with Thai friends who have been refused entrance to bars in Soi Cowboy, until it was realised that they were in the company of a foreigner. If I remember right, they were informed it was for members only.

Have also been told the same policy is common in some of the bars in Nana.

[Indo-Siam]

I don't speak Japanese - but here is the website for the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs' travel advisories for all areas of the world:

http://www.anzen.mofa.go.jp/

If someone who does read Japanese can take a look at what it says about Thailand - compared to, say, the Philippines, Laos, India, Brazil, and the UK, I would be interested to know whether the Japaneswe government sees Thailand as the particularly dangerous place for Japanese travelers that dannishgung seems to think it is.

Thailand is not a place without crime - and murders of foreigners have been part of the story here for a long time - going back to Jim Thompson. Look at the murdrer of accountant Michael Wansley in March 1999, or Ian Travis in March 2002. This is constant background noise - not something new, that reflects some newly arising menace.

All I am seeing is relative newcomers, with no sense of continuity, discovering for the first time that Thai on foreigner violence does occasionally happen in Thailand - in Bangkok - and thus the newcomer imagines that this is a new thing, reflecting some significant new trend. My guess is that if you plotted 2005 violence against foreigners against a graph showing a ten year moving average of the same, 2005 would not reflect any signficant variation over the past ten years.

Perhaps, every year, 30-40 (not "countless") foreigners get murdered in Thailand. Perhaps 25% of these murders are committed by other foreigners, 50% by Thai spouses, and the other 25% are involved with predatory crime by Thais. So - 7-10 foreigners murdered by Thai predators each year. That's the baseline - going back maybe 40 years - to 1965. I'm sure that over those 40 years, there have been some particularly "bad" years - and I will guess the following:

1) 2005 will not place within the top quintile (top 8) out of past 40 years, for violent crime against foreigners, if calculated on a "per capita of foreigners present" basis.

2) There will not be a steady upward trend, year on year, 2000-2005. There will be some variation - but nothing statistically significant, if compared to the past 40 years.

This is just opinion - I have no researched data. And I will concede that my opinion is no better than anyone elses.

Had the thread subtitle read "It seems Thai violence against foreingers may be inching upward", I would not have taken any real issue with such a statement.

"Countless vicious attacks against foreigners" is WILD exaggeration. In Iraq, there may be (effectively) countless IED, rocket and mortar attacks taking place within a given month - meaning to me hundreds per month. That's the sort of frequency that might justifiably be called "countless."

Two nasty bars at KSR, one 4:30 am ambush of a motorcycle passenger, two instances of taxi drivers attacking passengers over the past year, two Brits shot up-country by a police officer six months ago, and - even 10 punch-ups per month by bouncers (or jealous boyfriends) of foreign tourists pursuing nightlife activities - none of this amounts to any significant threat to the average foreigner here. You could double or triple the numbers - it still would not represent some massive hazard situation.

This discussion board is read by all sorts of folks - many of them outside Thailand, trying to make decisions about coming to Thailand. Unchallenged, this thread - right from the title of the first post - tries to convey the impression that the streets of Bangkok - Sukhumvit, Silom, and Ratchadapisek - are rapidly devolving into lawless, savage, dangerous places where "law of the jungle" prevails, and the average Joe should fear to tread. Myself - and several other folks who live here and have walked those streets continually for the last several years - have entered the discussion to dispute this assertion - I for one say that the sensational fear-mongering is utter crap.

I have walked the streets of London, Hamburg, Paris, Madrid, Rotterdam, Lisbon, Athens, Cairo, Rabat, Panama City, Tegucigalpa, Manila, Taipei, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Seoul, Vientiane, Tokyo, Singapore, Phnom Penh, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, Detriot, Miami, - and a few hundred other cities.

In all my travels, using my instincts and sense of wariness, I have only felt at risk in a few places - Colon, Panama; Detroit, MI USA; Camden, NJ USA; Gary, Indiana USA; East St. Louis, IL USA; Puerto Rico during a drought/heat wave, Manila (on one out of maybe ten visits, when I ended up in a bad part of town), Phnom Penh, and one of maybe six visits to Shenzhen - again, when lost in a bad part of town. I have also flat refused to go to several places - Bogota, and Srinigar - because of what was going on at the time.

So - when I walk Sukhumvit, or Ratchadapisek - I have a big mental database of travel experiences with which to compare my present surroundings. Bangkok is presently not a violently predatory city - by any stretch. There is crime, and there is corruption. My personal feeling is that the "sinister" Thais DO in fact go somewhat out of their way to avoid targeting foreigners.

Reading in this thread about the need to pack a gun to go off for a morning round of golf - what absolute crap! This is utterly ridiculous.

For its size, its density of population, its diversity, and its fast pace - Bangkok is a remarakably safe, friendly, and welcoming place for foreign visitors. And that is the reputation it has with millions of foreigners who have already passed through here. The weather is hot, the language is hard to decipher, and traffic and pollution can wear you down - but fear of violent crime is not by any means a standard paret of the package.

dannishgung - just how high CAN you count??????

Cheers!

Steve Sykes

Managing Director

Indo-Siam Group

Bangkok

[LoveDaBlues]

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38a75857671c.htm

[Neeranam]

Had the thread subtitle read "It seems Thai violence against foreingers may be inching upward", I would not have taken any real issue with such a statement.

I agree with you.

Why take such a issue to a stupid thread?

Reading in this thread about the need to pack a gun to go off for a morning round of golf - what absolute crap! This is utterly ridiculous.

I know a couple of well-to-do Thais whose drivers/bodyguards carry guns, on the golf course too. They are maybe a bit paranoid of kidnapping, especially of their kids. The golf course is an easy place for robbery.

I have also met a couple of nouveau riche chinese "Thais" who think that their carrying of a gun makes them as important as some of the people who they envy.

It is showing off, an over inflated ego, a sign of weakness, if you ask me. Like telling people that you are important enough for your sevants to carry guns.

One little kid, (9 years old) came to study English with me and one driver carried a gun, and the minder(evil looking bastard) wandered about outside kind of showing that he was armed and dangerous in a professional way.

For some rich business families in Thailand their is the need. For the normal everyday joe, of course it is a bad idea to carry a gun.

[leftcross]

Maybe this motorbike attack wasn't in any of the newspapers or on the TV because it didn't happen?

Just a thought.

[Ijustwannateach]

I've personally had friends who were present at violent events here (even on large scale, like shoot-outs between teen hoodlums in a mall here) that were not reported in the newspapers afterward. It's not surprising that such an event as related in the OP was not reported. Of course, that isn't a guarantee that it occurred, either. One of the problems of not having a free press.

"Steven"

[bkkmadness]

To leftcross and IJWT, the incident did make the papers I believe, Baht&Sold said he read something about it there.

[baht&sold]

To leftcross and IJWT, the incident did make the papers I believe, Baht&Sold said he read something about it there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yup, in the 'paper you can trust' a few days ago (or maybe I'm part of the larger conspiracy building here

To any conspiracy theorists out there- It's not YOU, it's the paranoid people, THEY'RE after you!

To the wannahavagun group, you don't need a gun, you need to get a bloody grip

To the rest whom have level heads, enjoy life, Thailand's tops imho.

EDIT/ maybe posters could reflect on the utter stupidity of the post topic fer cryin out loud:

"Bangkok At Night Turns Violent Inferno Now"

That said, I'm on way out to that violent inferno right now ....

(someone please call my Dad if you don't hear from me, k?)

Edited August 7, 2005 by baht&sold

[Butterfly]

And if you don't know that, either you don't live here or you don't understand what's really going on around you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. Good observation. But I would say they had same nasty attitude since the 1997 IMF crash that they still blame on us, not them. Thaksin successful political platform is a product of the IMF crisis

[sadman]

To the wannahavagun group, you don't need a gun, you need to get a bloody grip

To the rest whom have level heads, enjoy life, Thailand's tops imho.

Excellent post, puts it into perspective. Also, in the UK - not a place where I feel scared or want to wander about like Wild Bill Hickock - there are around 750 homicides per year, or about 15 per week. How many are there in LOS? Do farang murders get more press than Thai murders?

I fully acknowledge and respect the views of people from countries (such as the US) who see the carrying of guns as sensible and appropriate, but I would just point out that where guns are allowed, gun crime and murders are higher. Becoming an armed society is a slippery slope - once armed, it is nigh on impossible to disarm.

Violence is not the solution - it's the problem.

[OldAsiaHand]

And if you don't know that, either you don't live here or you don't understand what's really going on around you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. Good observation. But I would say they had same nasty attitude since the 1997 IMF crash that they still blame on us, not them. Thaksin successful political platform is a product of the IMF crisis

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I guess it sounds like we're organizing a mutal admiration society here, Butterfly, but I'd have to say 'yep' to your observation, too. The first big wave of change in our standing hit when the baht collapsed due to the utter ineptitude of the Bank of Thailand, and the second started with Thaksin's election on the back of what passes here for neo-nationalism. There is now real face to be gained for a Thai when he stands up to a foreigner and shows him who is boss in this country, even when (perhaps especially when) that's not an particularly issue.

That's nothing fundamentally new in that, of course. Smugness and arrogance have always been major elements of the Thai character. It's just that more Thais now seem to feel less constrained about expressing themselves agressively, both verbally and physically, at least with respect to their long-standing resentment of foreigners living among them. It's my wife's observation as a Thai that the more confrontational style of life can be seen generally these days, by Thais and foreigners alike. She says that she more often now is made to feel uneasy as a result of being married to a foreigner than she was a few years ago, certainly more than she was ten years ago.

Still, Thais are fundamentally cowards and won't take you on unless you are at a disadvantage by virtue of numbers or rank or some such. Remember the we've-never-been-conquered-by-foreigners nonsense they love to throw at you? Of course they haven't. Thais alway surrender before anybody has the time to get a good conquering organized.

[taxexile]

That's nothing fundamentally new in that, of course. Smugness and arrogance have always been major elements of the Thai character. It's just that more Thais now seem to feel less constrained about expressing themselves agressively, both verbally and physically, at least with respect to their long-standing resentment of foreigners living among them.

Still, Thais are fundamentally cowards and won't take you on unless you are at a disadvantage by virtue of numbers or rank or some such. Remember the we've-never-been-conquered-by-foreigners nonsense they love to throw at you? Of course they haven't. Thais alway surrender before anybody has the time to get a good conquering organized.

well said.

you dont need superhuman powers of observation to have noticed the increasing levels of aggression on show on the streets of thailand over the past few years , and along with that comes the violence.

and although the title of this post is pure tabloid trash , the replies that state that nothing has changed and crime levels are static are also out of kilter.

more foriegners are attacked because more foriegners are here , but there are far more thais willing to attack than there were years ago.

[jomama]

Remember the we've-never-been-conquered-by-foreigners nonsense they love to throw at you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This has always interested me. What, then happened when the Burmese conquered and burned Ayuthaya, or when the Japanese landed at Chompon in WWII?

In the latter case, some local Thai police put up brave resistance, but it wasn't long before the country became allied with the Japanese. Is that surrender with a face-saving Asian twist?

What they should say, and often do, is never have been colonized by Western powers, while all of their neighbors were...

[Tolley]

That's nothing fundamentally new in that, of course. Smugness and arrogance have always been major elements of the Thai character. It's just that more Thais now seem to feel less constrained about expressing themselves agressively, both verbally and physically, at least with respect to their long-standing resentment of foreigners living among them.

Still, Thais are fundamentally cowards and won't take you on unless you are at a disadvantage by virtue of numbers or rank or some such. Remember the we've-never-been-conquered-by-foreigners nonsense they love to throw at you? Of course they haven't. Thais alway surrender before anybody has the time to get a good conquering organized.

well said.

you dont need superhuman powers of observation to have noticed the increasing levels of aggression on show on the streets of thailand over the past few years , and along with that comes the violence.

and although the title of this post is pure tabloid trash , the replies that state that nothing has changed and crime levels are static are also out of kilter.

more foriegners are attacked because more foriegners are here , but there are far more thais willing to attack than there were years ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep agree.

Amazing how some people can stay here for years and still have no inkling of the character of many Thais.

[Butterfly]

I have talked to a few friends in "Population #1" over this issue. They have been partying in Patpong and elsewhere for 10 years straight now. I asked if they thought things were still as safe as before. Their answers: yes still safe BUT in the last few months alone they have witnessed serious "incidents" they never see before in their partying. Drunk Thais attacking tourist women, farangs, Thais, policemen, you name it, all this unprovoked and out of the blue. The "incidents" were minor, only involving grabbing and exchange of fists. Still, this is puzzling. Why now ?

If you are in Population #1, party-goers, then risk is definitely increasing. How long before Bangkok become Manilla in its bad days ?

[Neeranam]

I have talked to a few friends in "Population #1" over this issue. They have been partying in Patpong and elsewhere for 10 years straight now. I asked if they thought things were still as safe as before. Their answers: yes still safe BUT in the last few months alone they have witnessed serious "incidents" they never see before in their partying. Drunk Thais attacking tourist women, farangs, Thais, policemen, you name it, all this unprovoked and out of the blue. The "incidents" were minor, only involving grabbing and exchange of fists. Still, this is puzzling. Why now ?

I used to drink down Pat Pong 10 years ago.

I thought it was better then than now.

Actually it is probably much the same except that then I was a clueless drunken farang, now I have a clue, not drunken but still a farang and they don't like it They are scum down there. Once they know you are not a gullible tourist without a clue, they tell you to &lt;deleted&gt; off.

[baht&sold]

Neeranam, from your posts I gather you've joined the friends of bill and I completely commend you and all who do likewise. Since you've walked both sides of the streets (sober and otherwise;) and been here alot longer than some, is it safer sober, or drunk? May seem like a stupid question but after reading alot of this thread, maybe it needs to be said...

BTW, yes, that's true what you say about Patpong- I also just give it a miss

[kat]

... more foriegners are attacked because more foriegners are here , but there are far more thais willing to attack than there were years ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, I'd like to speculate: what could be the cause of this increased willingness?

Yes there are more farangs here. This means that there are more people who are visibly different from Thais, involved with women, relationships, and the bar scene, and culturally different which at times could be offensive, but also that they are more likely to confront obvious bullshit scams or explanations. Thais don't like confrontation, even when they are in the wrong, but strangely enough I see Hi-so Thais confront in a much more demeaning manner very often.

There have also been a number of scandals and corruption schemes which have received a fair amount of international press. Could there be some counter publicity scheme somewhere to slander foreigners in the Thai press as some form of retribution?

Combine this with the usual variety of idiotic and culturally insenstive expats and tourists alike and you have a venomous brew.

This is just wild speculation on my part.

I have talked to a few friends in "Population #1" over this issue. They have been partying in Patpong and elsewhere for 10 years straight now. I asked if they thought things were still as safe as before. Their answers: yes still safe BUT in the last few months alone they have witnessed serious "incidents" they never see before in their partying. Drunk Thais attacking tourist women, farangs, Thais, policemen, you name it, all this unprovoked and out of the blue. The "incidents" were minor, only involving grabbing and exchange of fists. Still, this is puzzling. Why now ?

I used to drink down Pat Pong 10 years ago.

I thought it was better then than now.

Actually it is probably much the same except that then I was a clueless drunken farang, now I have a clue, not drunken but still a farang and they don't like it They are scum down there. Once they know you are not a gullible tourist without a clue, they tell you to &lt;deleted&gt; off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to agree with these observations. I can't exactly pinpoint an exact timeframe, but I have been here for 3 years. I have noticed direct and unprovoked hostility on KSR and in Chiang Mai Tapae area for at least 2 years.

What happens on KSR is usually along these lines: I'll try to buy something off the street and bargain the inflated prices within the acceptable price range for BKK. I am not talking about buying something for nothing, but for a price which I know to be reasonable. The vendors take on an almost immediate hostile attitude because that requires them to revise their astronomical price inflation.

I don't know which came first: the farang that wants everything for nothing, or the 5-10xs inflated price, but something is definitely happening in this regard; the same in Patpong. They seem to get insulted when you are incredulous or refuse to pay 1300 baht for an item that should be no more than 200-300 baht max.

On Rambutri (off KSR), there is an internet place owned by a chap who is overtly hostile to farangs. He runs the shop in the toursist area, but openly hates all Westerners. &lt;deleted&gt;? I'm sure he has met some obnoxious people, but he has no problem sharing his open hatred with everyone, while accepting your money, of course.

In Chiang Mai, there is a woman of Thai/Chinese decesent that also shares her open hatred with every Western foreigner. Yet she spends her days selling Thai cotton clothing to foreigners. In fact, when I went back to CM last month, she was still there. I went up to her to engage her in friendly conversation (i.e. - hi, remember me, I was here last year, etc.) and her face was a stone mask. She actually came right out and told me that she hates Europeans, but what she meant was white foreigners.

This is not to say that there are not beautiful, warm Thai people out there - I come into contact with many everyday. However, sometimes I wonder what they are in fact saying to each other as they look over to me smiling. And I also know that there are plenty of white foreigners that are worthy of their contempt ....... but every single one? That's a pretty harsh hatred. Maybe these are the same Thais that also hate the Burmese, Cambodians, Laos, Vietnamese, and on and on and on.

Hatred for racial or nationality reasons exist everywhere you go. Is it any different here?

Edited August 9, 2005 by kat

[Pattayatony]

Neeranam, from your posts I gather you've joined the friends of bill and I completely commend you and all who do likewise. Since you've walked both sides of the streets (sober and otherwise;) and been here alot longer than some, is it safer sober, or drunk? May seem like a stupid question but after reading alot of this thread, maybe it needs to be said...

BTW, yes, that's true what you say about Patpong- I also just give it a miss

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont know about Neeranam but Im a friend of Bill W and let me tell you If I was drinking in Thailand I would have been killed years ago. I thought I was ten feet tall and bullet proof in my past life. Any way im getting toooooo old for that violance sh1t now. Everytime Im now confronted by an angry Thai (Often Baht bus drivers) I have to remind myself Im not as young as I use to be

[Neeranam]

Neeranam, from your posts I gather you've joined the friends of bill and I completely commend you and all who do likewise. Since you've walked both sides of the streets (sober and otherwise;) and been here alot longer than some, is it safer sober, or drunk? May seem like a stupid question but after reading alot of this thread, maybe it needs to be said...

BTW, yes, that's true what you say about Patpong- I also just give it a miss 

Yes B&S, I am a friend of Bills.

When I was drinking, I ended up in 15 different hospitals in Bangkok due to "accidents". Since I quit, many years ago now, I have never been in one hospital because of an "accident". Strange how I have never been hit since quitting, never ended up in a jail etc. You are right, when sober there is a lot less danger, foe me because I know the places to avoid.

Pattaya, I know nothing about. I know that because I am sober and try to live a spititual life, why on earth would I want to go there.

[Jai Dee]

Pattaya, I know nothing about. I know that because I am sober and try to live a spititual life, why on earth would I want to go there. 

Don't knock it until you've tried it Neeranam.

I'm a Pattaya resident and live a great life there (without the bar scene).

If you ever want to visit, let me know and I'll be your guide.

[longway]

To add my 2 cents worth..

I cant really comment on how much more violent thailand is than before as I have only been coming to the country for 2 1/2 years.

As for being a violent society, it pretty clear that thailand is violent. just take alook outside...bangkok is a big dirty crowded and frequently poor city. with a big divide between the have and have nots, the place must be rife with criminals/deperados/nutters of various sorts.

i have noticed there is sometimes hostility towards foreigners, not much, but just enough for me to take notice and keep an eye to where i am and what i am doing.

having said that i think that considering the size of bangkok and the relative poverty of the local people and the things many foreigners get up to it is surprising how little trouble there is..IMHO thai are very tolerant tho u can see some are fed up of farangs. however there is no need to retreat into hyperbole and blow things out of porportion, for example the title of this thread.

also no need to call thais in general cowardly thugs...perhaps it has not been said in this thread but in others, i think this is just a sign of the poster's arrogance and racism. if u wander around believing u are superior to the people around u, u will get a kicking no matter where u are..nothing to do with thailand. too many farang are ridiculously arrogant.

of course u can still get in trouble even if u are the nicest guy in the world..its the luck of the draw sometimes.

if u keep an eye out, take abit a time to understand where u are, u can avoid 90% of the trouble out there IMO. the times in my life when i got into problems..the vast majority could have been avoided by a joke, not taking the short cut, not being so drunk and obnoxious etc. if u want trouble its easy to find.

i have found thais to be very friendly if u respect them and their country. if u have found otherwise then i suggest your attitude or the company u keep needs to change,

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(Neeranam @ 2005-08-10 14:52:03)

Pattaya, I know nothing about. I know that because I am sober and try to live a spititual life, why on earth would I want to go there. 

Don't knock it until you've tried it Neeranam.

I'm a Pattaya resident and live a great life there (without the bar scene).

If you ever want to visit, let me know and I'll be your guide.

Yeah, sorry JD. I'm sure that there are lots of guys there, in fact I know a few, who live good lives without the bar-scene, and also some with it. I guess Pattaya has changed a ###### of a lot from when I went there years ago. As I say, I don't know anything about it these days.

[wild1]

If there's a big rise in crime against farang you can pretty well bet it's across the board but Thais not so publicised... - well.. maybe just look at front page of Thai Rath.

The world is in general becoming more violent (see BBC for chip throwing incident in Islington, London).

BUT am I the only one to notice this? Doesn't it seem to be that half the populations of certain neighbouring countries have come to Thailand. I have lived in Chiang Mai for many years and you walk down any street and hear people  talking .. its not Thai or English and not even any of the more local hilltribe languages. There is a huge influx of people coming into the country, some legally and some not.

The numbers are astounding. The next stop after Chiang Mai for many is Bangkok which pays slightly better for labour. I have seen and heard of case after case. Some of these people have Baat Dang Dao and some have nothing.

This is certainly fuelling the crime situation.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Guys i think it is really sad what is happening in the LOS, but i dare say that we better keep an eye open and if something does go wrong i say keep a quick pace outta there....

These thai's can get quiete pissed real quick all it takes is a bad look and your done 4.

remember always smile....

[Plus+]

Thailand is not a murder capital of the world, but it's very high up with murder statistics (when they publish them). How much of it is against foreigners? Who knows? Indo-Siam admits that he is taking his numbers out of his ass. He also admits that he lives mostly on Suk - very different area to RCA or Ratchada mentioned in the original post.

Bangkok still feels relatively safer, but it's the lawlessness that scares me most. You might not get into any serious trouble, but if you do - it's the jungle out there.

Motorcycle gangs are the big pain the arse. They won't stop at nothing. Some time ago there was a short story in the papers about police station being attacked and shot at with the police hiding in the back and calling for reinforcements, which were too late to catch anyone, of course. These guys seem to feel free to do anything they want.

Vocational college students have been in the news a lot more often, they are kind of registered folk - uniforms, application forms, class attendance, yet still they are pretty much free to do as they please - stopping public buses, shooting anyone they don't like and often kiling people at random as collateral damage.

There's no law in this country, not in the "western" sense. If you have to deal with the police you might get lucky and get all cooperation, or you might get a cold shoulder and "it's your problem, not mine" attitude.

People, including the police, will not stand for what is right, they will stand for WHO is right. Everyone should be aware of this.

Have you noticed how the original post has been turned around and the OP was called a troll and the beaten tourist in Khao Sarn became a yob? How the topic drifted away to comparing Thailand to Manchester, to obnoxious farangs, to "no Thai" bars, and, in the process, beating a man senseless and leaving him bleeding on the pavement for hours seems to become ok now.

It's the jungle out HERE.

[Stacking Zeds]

Don't believe a word of it. Unless you are out drinking mekhong with tik-tuk drivers at 2am you're safer in BKK than anywhere else outside Japan I know. Man stabbed to death on London bus last week, and teenager murdered with an zxe in Liverpool.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You are absolutely right. I have been in Japan for many years and Thailand is the only country that comes close in terms of personal freedoms/safety. I just can't see any of those things described in the OP happening..