Why Buy A House In Pattaya

[sarahsbloke]

Unless you are buying the property as security for your wife or girlfriend I don't really see any advantage in buying in Thailand and I can see way too many disadvantages.

The argument that the purchase price pays for itself if you live there for 10 or 15 years doesnt really wash as the money you spend on buying the property could have been invested and you could have made up any rental shortfall by your investment.

The list of disadvantages are so long that it just doesn't bear writing them down.

Your argument makes no sense, if you did not buy then there would still be no money to invest as you would be paying it in rent. I would also like to see any investment at present that would return 25000 baht/month which is what my place would cost to rent, for an outlay of 4 million baht.

To use your arguement if I own the house, then allowing for the 10/15 years to recoup my original outlay leaves me the rest of my life to invest the money that non owners would still be paying in rent.

This might be true in Pattaya

I am in ChiangMai currently negotiating to rent a house advertised for sale at 4,000,000bht

I am expecting to pay a rent in the region of 5,000bht a month (and I do the repairs) to 7,000bht a month (and they do the repairs)

The house has been vacent for 4 years ..... how much money did they save by buying a house?

[rgs2001uk]

ignorance is not an excuse.

Pattaya is full of farangs ripping off other farangs in addition to the locals.

You can own a condo but not land. End of story.

a fool and his money are soon parted.

If you don't agree please explain how a foreigner can own land 100% in Thailand.

I find it a little ironic that you raise the subject of ignorance. I have spoken at great length to countless Thai qualified lawyers as to what I can and cannot do vis-a-vis owning land in Thailand. Please excuse me if I prefer their legal opinions over yours. As a qualified and experienced lawyer myself (albeit not in Thailand), I feel that I am in a good position to understand properly the advice I have been given. Moreover, I know several foreign lawyers running the Bangkok offices of large international law firms who own property in Thailand via similar structures to the one used by me.

A lot of non-lawyers seem to believe that the law is black and white. It is not. It is countless shades of grey. One of the reasons why lawyers tend to be so well paid is that they can navigate those shades of grey to achieve objectives quite legally that cannot be achieved in a simple and straightforward manner. This is exactly what lawyers do, not just here in Thailand, but all around the World and if you think anything else then you are awfully naive (I won't use the word ignorant because I try not to be rude unnecessarily).

Now here is a guy who sounds as if has been around the block a few times (NOT)

If you asked a hundred lawyers for a sworn statement that your clock was running backwards you would get an answer from 100 lawyers it was. The law is black and white the countless shades of grey you mentioned are a lunatics rant,once your ears are pinned to a courtroom see how far the grey areas hold up.

Buy a house in a company name (say Joe Bloggs Emporium),now if there was such a place operating independently from your house ,yes you are legit,if the name appears on your letter box flap of your house ie no Emporium ,potentially your in trouble,as others around the world(bit closer to home actually)have found out about and are being stripped of their homes

Buying in a land where you need a visa to live in is risky,just a tweak here,a tweak there renders you homeless

What an informed and enlightening post.

Perhaps TJG could bring his free thinking legal friends to the local amphor office with me,

there is a parcel of land I am considering, if the legal friends can convince the nice local official to produce

a chanot with my name on it I will be more than happy to buy it, until such times I have no interest in making any purchases.

[rgs2001uk]

Unless you are buying the property as security for your wife or girlfriend I don't really see any advantage in buying in Thailand and I can see way too many disadvantages.

The argument that the purchase price pays for itself if you live there for 10 or 15 years doesnt really wash as the money you spend on buying the property could have been invested and you could have made up any rental shortfall by your investment.

The list of disadvantages are so long that it just doesn't bear writing them down.

Your argument makes no sense, if you did not buy then there would still be no money to invest as you would be paying it in rent. I would also like to see any investment at present that would return 25000 baht/month which is what my place would cost to rent, for an outlay of 4 million baht.

To use your arguement if I own the house, then allowing for the 10/15 years to recoup my original outlay leaves me the rest of my life to invest the money that non owners would still be paying in rent.

This might be true in Pattaya

I am in ChiangMai currently negotiating to rent a house advertised for sale at 4,000,000bht

I am expecting to pay a rent in the region of 5,000bht a month (and I do the repairs) to 7,000bht a month (and they do the repairs)

The house has been vacent for 4 years ..... how much money did they save by buying a house?

Ah the benefits of residing by the sea,

house in Bkk for rent at 25,000 per month or for sale 9.5 million.

http://www.asiapropertyworld.com/properties/details-of-house-for-rent-bangkok-2970

And people tell me Bkk is expensive.

[tgladwin]

ignorance is not an excuse.

Pattaya is full of farangs ripping off other farangs in addition to the locals.

You can own a condo but not land. End of story.

a fool and his money are soon parted.

If you don't agree please explain how a foreigner can own land 100% in Thailand.

I find it a little ironic that you raise the subject of ignorance. I have spoken at great length to countless Thai qualified lawyers as to what I can and cannot do vis-a-vis owning land in Thailand. Please excuse me if I prefer their legal opinions over yours. As a qualified and experienced lawyer myself (albeit not in Thailand), I feel that I am in a good position to understand properly the advice I have been given. Moreover, I know several foreign lawyers running the Bangkok offices of large international law firms who own property in Thailand via similar structures to the one used by me.

A lot of non-lawyers seem to believe that the law is black and white. It is not. It is countless shades of grey. One of the reasons why lawyers tend to be so well paid is that they can navigate those shades of grey to achieve objectives quite legally that cannot be achieved in a simple and straightforward manner. This is exactly what lawyers do, not just here in Thailand, but all around the World and if you think anything else then you are awfully naive (I won't use the word ignorant because I try not to be rude unnecessarily).

Now here is a guy who sounds as if has been around the block a few times (NOT)

If you asked a hundred lawyers for a sworn statement that your clock was running backwards you would get an answer from 100 lawyers it was. The law is black and white the countless shades of grey you mentioned are a lunatics rant,once your ears are pinned to a courtroom see how far the grey areas hold up.

Buy a house in a company name (say Joe Bloggs Emporium),now if there was such a place operating independently from your house ,yes you are legit,if the name appears on your letter box flap of your house ie no Emporium ,potentially your in trouble,as others around the world(bit closer to home actually)have found out about and are being stripped of their homes

Buying in a land where you need a visa to live in is risky,just a tweak here,a tweak there renders you homeless

You really do talk some absolute nonsense. Actually I have owned several properties in Thailand so I guess, in your words, I have been round the block a few times and thus know what I am talking about. Unlike you. My advice to you is when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, stay quiet. For example, Thai law does not contain a provision for houses to be seized. In the event that a house is deemed by a Court of law to be owned by a foreigner, the foreigner must be given at least 180 days to dispose of the property. In the event that he cannot, the government has the right to sell it on behalf of the owner, but is obliged to obtain a market price as determined by expert evidence.

Frankly, your posts are ill informed, inaccurate and not worthy of the few seconds it takes to read them.

[ya5702]

Sitting in my garden chilling amongst the beautiful butterflies dancing around the trees and flowers is my idea of enjoyment,looking in a bank book never gave me that.No regrets.

What about mosquitos buzzing amongst the butterflies?

[puuchai299]

Sitting in my garden chilling amongst the beautiful butterflies dancing around the trees and flowers is my idea of enjoyment,looking in a bank book never gave me that.No regrets.

What about mosquitos buzzing amongst the butterflies?

The mosquitoes can do what they like,they don't bite me, and never have.So what about them????

[tgladwin]

ignorance is not an excuse.

Pattaya is full of farangs ripping off other farangs in addition to the locals.

You can own a condo but not land. End of story.

a fool and his money are soon parted.

If you don't agree please explain how a foreigner can own land 100% in Thailand.

I find it a little ironic that you raise the subject of ignorance. I have spoken at great length to countless Thai qualified lawyers as to what I can and cannot do vis-a-vis owning land in Thailand. Please excuse me if I prefer their legal opinions over yours. As a qualified and experienced lawyer myself (albeit not in Thailand), I feel that I am in a good position to understand properly the advice I have been given. Moreover, I know several foreign lawyers running the Bangkok offices of large international law firms who own property in Thailand via similar structures to the one used by me.

A lot of non-lawyers seem to believe that the law is black and white. It is not. It is countless shades of grey. One of the reasons why lawyers tend to be so well paid is that they can navigate those shades of grey to achieve objectives quite legally that cannot be achieved in a simple and straightforward manner. This is exactly what lawyers do, not just here in Thailand, but all around the World and if you think anything else then you are awfully naive (I won't use the word ignorant because I try not to be rude unnecessarily).

Now here is a guy who sounds as if has been around the block a few times (NOT)

If you asked a hundred lawyers for a sworn statement that your clock was running backwards you would get an answer from 100 lawyers it was. The law is black and white the countless shades of grey you mentioned are a lunatics rant,once your ears are pinned to a courtroom see how far the grey areas hold up.

Buy a house in a company name (say Joe Bloggs Emporium),now if there was such a place operating independently from your house ,yes you are legit,if the name appears on your letter box flap of your house ie no Emporium ,potentially your in trouble,as others around the world(bit closer to home actually)have found out about and are being stripped of their homes

Buying in a land where you need a visa to live in is risky,just a tweak here,a tweak there renders you homeless

What an informed and enlightening post.

Perhaps TJG could bring his free thinking legal friends to the local amphor office with me,

there is a parcel of land I am considering, if the legal friends can convince the nice local official to produce

a chanot with my name on it I will be more than happy to buy it, until such times I have no interest in making any purchases.

To be honest, the fact that you think the local Amphur office has anything to do with issuing chanotes is indicative of your level of knowledge on this subject. The local Land office is responsible for land titles. As everyone knows very well, a foreigner cannot own a land parcel in his or her name. I have never suggested otherwise, nor would I. However, there are legal structures that can be set up within the law that can achieve an end result that to all intents and purposes is very similar. The land may not be in my own personal name, but my ownership structure is legal. Some people, including me, are happy with that. Others are not, and that is absolutely fine. I would never seek to persuade someone who is unhappy with such an arrangement to enter into one. Equally I would appreciate it if those individuals who very clearly have not spent any significant time and effort looking into the true legal situation would stop trying to tell me and others like me that we don't know what we are doing. Experience has shown me that when individuals do look into this whole question very carefully and speak to good quality lawyers, many discover that the situation is actually nothing like that they were told in a bar, or by some of the ill-informed posters on here. I have seen people with an attitude like yours change their opinion 180 degrees and go on to buy a house, but only after they have spoken to experienced qualified Thai professionals. The sad reality is that Pattaya has no shortage of bar stool barristers who claim expertise when actually they have none.

[rgs2001uk]

What an informed and enlightening post.

Perhaps TJG could bring his free thinking legal friends to the local amphor office with me,

there is a parcel of land I am considering, if the legal friends can convince the nice local official to produce

a chanot with my name on it I will be more than happy to buy it, until such times I have no interest in making any purchases.

To be honest, the fact that you think the local Amphur office has anything to do with issuing chanotes is indicative of your level of knowledge on this subject. The local Land office is responsible for land titles. As everyone knows very well, a foreigner cannot own a land parcel in his or her name. I have never suggested otherwise, nor would I. However, there are legal structures that can be set up within the law that can achieve an end result that to all intents and purposes is very similar. The land may not be in my own personal name, but my ownership structure is legal. Some people, including me, are happy with that. Others are not, and that is absolutely fine. I would never seek to persuade someone who is unhappy with such an arrangement to enter into one. Equally I would appreciate it if those individuals who very clearly have not spent any significant time and effort looking into the true legal situation would stop trying to tell me and others like me that we don't know what we are doing. Experience has shown me that when individuals do look into this whole question very carefully and speak to good quality lawyers, many discover that the situation is actually nothing like that they were told in a bar, or by some of the ill-informed posters on here. I have seen people with an attitude like yours change their opinion 180 degrees and go on to buy a house, but only after they have spoken to experienced qualified Thai professionals. The sad reality is that Pattaya has no shortage of bar stool barristers who claim expertise when actually they have none.

I used the word amphor as a generic term, I live in Bkk where we have kets and kwaengs, outside these are referred to as amphors and jangwats.

The locals from upcountry who live in Bkk tend to use this term when referring to any office of officialdom, those from Bkk tend to use the term ket.

My knowledge of this doesnt come from a Pattaya bar, I dont live there.

However I digress, I have asked two Thai lawyer friends if its possible to have a chanot issued in my name, as you rightly pointed out its not.

Your integrity is to be admired, however the sad truth is there are many in the business who have no scruples when it comes to selling property.

I have no attitude, as I have stated on here before I do not own and never will own property in Thailand unless its my name on the chanot.

I am well aware of what I can do to circumvent the chanot issues, but have no wish to go down that path, if others having had all the legalities pointed

out to then then wish to do so best of luck to them, I know many who have.

I am not in any way involved in the property business or the business of advising farangs on land ownership as a way of shifting properties.

I have stated my position, are you in any way involved in the property business?

The sad reality is many come on these forums as a way of either "protecting my investment" which was how one property owner described his position to a falling

market, or others with a vested interest in selling properties.

Its a sad fact that many in the business do not share your integrity.

An even sadder fact is many prospective buyers dont even know what questions to ask, or who to ask them of.

[jori]

Buying in a land where you need a visa to live in is risky,just a tweak here,a tweak there renders you homeless

You really do talk some absolute nonsense. Actually I have owned several properties in Thailand so I guess, in your words, I have been round the block a few times and thus know what I am talking about. Unlike you. My advice to you is when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, stay quiet. For example, Thai law does not contain a provision for houses to be seized. In the event that a house is deemed by a Court of law to be owned by a foreigner, the foreigner must be given at least 180 days to dispose of the property. In the event that he cannot, the government has the right to sell it on behalf of the owner, but is obliged to obtain a market price as determined by expert evidence.

Frankly, your posts are ill informed, inaccurate and not worthy of the few seconds it takes to read them.

I 've been up against the likes of you for years, just like you in another foreign land all about property issues parallel with issues such as Thailand's. The only reason you and others have been given leeway with your dealings in Thailand is that the authorities have not chosen to investigate/enforce the law up until now. This could and probably will change in the next few years.

For the past 6 years identical procedures that could unfold in Thailand are happening now just a couple of hours from here, and individuals such as yourself thinking they knew every aspect of the law applicable could defeat the govt, much to their cost, homes worth twice as much as owned by foreigners here snatched ,locked out of selling by closing the land registry to foreigners and ultimately given fresh visas staying out of that country for months at a time

I have witnessed thousand upon thousands of foreigners locked in disputes with a particular govt regarding foreigner land issues, the utter misery caused, many broken individuals

I care less what provision the Govt of Thailand possesses regarding land grab, but I know and have experienced results as mentioned and quite honestly you would get swatted like a fly.

You think laws here in Thailand would in any way protect a farangs property rights, you want to get your running shoes on again and get running around the block a few more times

Edited November 10, 2010 by jori

[tgladwin]

What an informed and enlightening post.

Perhaps TJG could bring his free thinking legal friends to the local amphor office with me,

there is a parcel of land I am considering, if the legal friends can convince the nice local official to produce

a chanot with my name on it I will be more than happy to buy it, until such times I have no interest in making any purchases.

To be honest, the fact that you think the local Amphur office has anything to do with issuing chanotes is indicative of your level of knowledge on this subject. The local Land office is responsible for land titles. As everyone knows very well, a foreigner cannot own a land parcel in his or her name. I have never suggested otherwise, nor would I. However, there are legal structures that can be set up within the law that can achieve an end result that to all intents and purposes is very similar. The land may not be in my own personal name, but my ownership structure is legal. Some people, including me, are happy with that. Others are not, and that is absolutely fine. I would never seek to persuade someone who is unhappy with such an arrangement to enter into one. Equally I would appreciate it if those individuals who very clearly have not spent any significant time and effort looking into the true legal situation would stop trying to tell me and others like me that we don't know what we are doing. Experience has shown me that when individuals do look into this whole question very carefully and speak to good quality lawyers, many discover that the situation is actually nothing like that they were told in a bar, or by some of the ill-informed posters on here. I have seen people with an attitude like yours change their opinion 180 degrees and go on to buy a house, but only after they have spoken to experienced qualified Thai professionals. The sad reality is that Pattaya has no shortage of bar stool barristers who claim expertise when actually they have none.

I used the word amphor as a generic term, I live in Bkk where we have kets and kwaengs, outside these are referred to as amphors and jangwats.

The locals from upcountry who live in Bkk tend to use this term when referring to any office of officialdom, those from Bkk tend to use the term ket.

My knowledge of this doesnt come from a Pattaya bar, I dont live there.

However I digress, I have asked two Thai lawyer friends if its possible to have a chanot issued in my name, as you rightly pointed out its not.

Your integrity is to be admired, however the sad truth is there are many in the business who have no scruples when it comes to selling property.

I have no attitude, as I have stated on here before I do not own and never will own property in Thailand unless its my name on the chanot.

I am well aware of what I can do to circumvent the chanot issues, but have no wish to go down that path, if others having had all the legalities pointed

out to then then wish to do so best of luck to them, I know many who have.

I am not in any way involved in the property business or the business of advising farangs on land ownership as a way of shifting properties.

I have stated my position, are you in any way involved in the property business?

The sad reality is many come on these forums as a way of either "protecting my investment" which was how one property owner described his position to a falling

market, or others with a vested interest in selling properties.

Its a sad fact that many in the business do not share your integrity.

An even sadder fact is many prospective buyers dont even know what questions to ask, or who to ask them of.

More

Sorry for failing to appreciate that you were talking generically when you referred to the Amphur. Yes, I do work in real estate, I run a brokerage down in Pattaya. Prior to working in real estate I was a lawyer and therefore, while I obviously was not qualified in Thailand, I like to believe that I can grasp legal issues quite well. Plus, having worked for a while in the Bangkok office of an international law firm, I know plenty of very good, highly qualified Thai lawyers from whom I can take advice. Moreover, notwithstanding the many jokes at the expense of lawyers, having worked in the profession for a long time, I understand the importance of giving proper and clear advice. And I believe that advice I give to people is accurate and in no way seeks to misrepresent the true situation. Furthermore, I always advise our customers to take independent legal advice from a Thai qualified lawyer of their own choosing.

In responding to posts on here, I am certainly not trying to misrepresent the position with regards to land ownership to help my business, not at all. However, there are an awful lot of posters who do misrepresent the true position negatively and I have tried to correct inaccuracies. In many cases these individuals simply have no idea as to what can and cannot be done within the confines of the law. Irrespective of the fact that I work in real estate I really don't see that I am doing anything wrong in trying to clarify the true situation.

[tgladwin]

A lot of non-lawyers seem to believe that the law is black and white. It is not. It is countless shades of grey. One of the reasons why lawyers tend to be so well paid is that they can navigate those shades of grey to achieve objectives quite legally that cannot be achieved in a simple and straightforward manner. This is exactly what lawyers do, not just here in Thailand, but all around the World and if you think anything else then you are awfully naive (I won't use the word ignorant because I try not to be rude unnecessarily).

You really do talk some absolute nonsense. Actually I have owned several properties in Thailand so I guess, in your words, I have been round the block a few times and thus know what I am talking about. Unlike you. My advice to you is when you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about, stay quiet. For example, Thai law does not contain a provision for houses to be seized. In the event that a house is deemed by a Court of law to be owned by a foreigner, the foreigner must be given at least 180 days to dispose of the property. In the event that he cannot, the government has the right to sell it on behalf of the owner, but is obliged to obtain a market price as determined by expert evidence.

Frankly, your posts are ill informed, inaccurate and not worthy of the few seconds it takes to read them.

I 've been up against the likes of you for years, just like you in another foreign land all about property issues parallel with issues such as Thailand's. The only reason you and others have been given leeway with your dealings in Thailand is that the authorities have not chosen to investigate/enforce the law up until now. This could and probably will change in the next few years.

For the past 6 years identical procedures that could unfold in Thailand are happening now just a couple of hours from here, and individuals such as yourself thinking they knew every aspect of the law applicable could defeat the govt, much to their cost, homes worth twice as much as owned by foreigners here snatched ,locked out of selling by closing the land registry to foreigners and ultimately given fresh visas staying out of that country for months at a time

I have witnessed thousand upon thousands of foreigners locked in disputes with a particular govt regarding foreigner land issues, the utter misery caused, many broken individuals

I care less what provision the Govt of Thailand possesses regarding land grab, but I know and have experienced results as mentioned and quite honestly you would get swatted like a fly.

You think laws here in Thailand would in any way protect a farangs property rights, you want to get your running shoes on again and get running around the block a few more times

And I have come across the likes of you on countless occasions. You know it all and everyone else is wrong. You know more about the law than experienced, qualified lawyers. In fact you know more about anything and everything than anyone else in spite of their long education and vast experience.

You have "witnessed thousands and thousands of foreigners locked in disputes with a particular government (but yet you don't name the government)". And it hasn't even made the news, even though when one Brit had a similar problem with the Spanish government it made headlines around the World. Excuse my scepticism, but if you want to have any credibility whatsoever you are going to have to do an awful lot better than that.

[NALAK]

a good knowledgable Thai lawyer will of course tell anybody what they want to hear and charge accordingly, Thai company, stronger voting rights than share holders etc. if its a company whats it trading in, doing any work on the house would require a work permit even though its your own house. i learnt all i knew about property off bar stool preperty sellors who i socialised with for years but alas have all deparated. if there were legal ways around the law they would simply say outright ok farangs can own land but they dont. either way the house will be falling down in 20 years,

simple question can you own 50% of land in your own name?

on the other hand Thai's can come to the UK and own property 100% outright in there own name.

[moo9]

Unless you are buying the property as security for your wife or girlfriend I don't really see any advantage in buying in Thailand and I can see way too many disadvantages.

The argument that the purchase price pays for itself if you live there for 10 or 15 years doesnt really wash as the money you spend on buying the property could have been invested and you could have made up any rental shortfall by your investment.

The list of disadvantages are so long that it just doesn't bear writing them down.

Your argument makes no sense, if you did not buy then there would still be no money to invest as you would be paying it in rent. I would also like to see any investment at present that would return 25000 baht/month which is what my place would cost to rent, for an outlay of 4 million baht.

To use your arguement if I own the house, then allowing for the 10/15 years to recoup my original outlay leaves me the rest of my life to invest the money that non owners would still be paying in rent.

This might be true in Pattaya

I am in ChiangMai currently negotiating to rent a house advertised for sale at 4,000,000bht

I am expecting to pay a rent in the region of 5,000bht a month (and I do the repairs) to 7,000bht a month (and they do the repairs)

The house has been vacent for 4 years ..... how much money did they save by buying a house?

You are exaggerating! How can the montly rent be 5 - 7 k THB? Even their sales price is unrealistic or your rent offer. But I don't know the details of the house.

[Benjie]

This might be true in Pattaya

I am in ChiangMai currently negotiating to rent a house advertised for sale at 4,000,000bht

I am expecting to pay a rent in the region of 5,000bht a month (and I do the repairs) to 7,000bht a month (and they do the repairs)

The house has been vacent for 4 years ..... how much money did they save by buying a house?

Well surely that depends on what they paid for the house? What they want to sell it for has no bearing on what they paid.

4 million in Chiang Mai should buy you a mansion, I'm doubting mansions rent out at 100 pounds a month, no matter where you live.

[craigt3365]

I 've been up against the likes of you for years, just like you in another foreign land all about property issues parallel with issues such as Thailand's. The only reason you and others have been given leeway with your dealings in Thailand is that the authorities have not chosen to investigate/enforce the law up until now. This could and probably will change in the next few years.

For the past 6 years identical procedures that could unfold in Thailand are happening now just a couple of hours from here, and individuals such as yourself thinking they knew every aspect of the law applicable could defeat the govt, much to their cost, homes worth twice as much as owned by foreigners here snatched ,locked out of selling by closing the land registry to foreigners and ultimately given fresh visas staying out of that country for months at a time

I have witnessed thousand upon thousands of foreigners locked in disputes with a particular govt regarding foreigner land issues, the utter misery caused, many broken individuals

I care less what provision the Govt of Thailand possesses regarding land grab, but I know and have experienced results as mentioned and quite honestly you would get swatted like a fly.

You think laws here in Thailand would in any way protect a farangs property rights, you want to get your running shoes on again and get running around the block a few more times

Your point is well taken. Purchases of property in 3rd world countries do have risks. But millions of people have gone down this route with no problems. Sure, thousands have had problems and they are highlighted in news media around the world. Mexico, Spain and now it looks like Goa. But not all of India, just Goa. Seems to be a scam going on with the local officials. And it is not thousands and thousands. Unless my research is wrong, I've read that 400 are dealing with this now and there may be a thousand or more who will have to deal with this eventually:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8378

There are many of us who understand the risk and are OK with it. We've analyzed it, talked to attorney's, and some of us have a good exit strategy. It's a risk I'm willing to make, along with thousands of others...international businesses included. We're just small stuff compared to the big companies. Right now, the upside on RE here, like in many places globally, is just not there in the short term. But plenty have made a ton of cash in property here in Thailand. And plenty have lost. Same, same everywhere else in the world right now.

In a previous post, a guy mentioned he bought a house in Vegas recently. Great! But good luck selling it anytime in the next few years and getting your money back. The market is swamped and new foreclosures and short sales are coming out every week. Tough competition. But it didn't bother him. He's happy and that's what counts. Same with the rest of us here who have purchased. For now, life is great! And my exit strategy is easy to put into place and activate...with little risk.

How do you know the laws will change? Do you have an inside source? People have been claiming the sky is falling for years....nothing has happened so far. But for sure, us homeowners are hoping Thaksin comes back...anything goes then!

[David006]

Is the question Why buy a house OR Why buy a house in Pattaya?

Why buy a house?

The simple truth of all property ownership is you make the profit when you buy, not when you sell. That is why some houses (or condos) do not re-sell well. It is also the reason why some are still making some money even in this downturn and why Pattaya is continuing to grow in the last two years despite western world recession.

In the Pattaya area, a lack of marketing finesse is another reason for the lack of re-sales. Putting a sign outside yr house or a photo up in Friendship for a week is not going to do it.

Hearing some agents calling over Sukhumvit 'the dark side' just amazes me. Especially as many live there. Along with thousands of other people. But if it keeps it being a great place to live, then so be it.

I am a small time developer in Huay Yai taking small profits and have sold 3 villas in last 12 months. We are currently building the fourth villa at b5,500,000. Not a small sum and yet not so much when compared with property sale prices back home. Wherever that may be.

Our buyers have found a well built villa, in a lovely environment, at exceptional value. And all seem jolly pleased with it - even after the ink has dried! One buyer was renting for the last 5 years at 40,000 pcm. Ask him if that was money well spent! The web site is huyyaivillas.com

Why buy in Pattaya?

Pattaya offers something that is unavailable anywhere else in the world in such a friendly environment and for that reason, guys will keep coming here and wanting to stay here for the very long forseeabe future. To answer the question - Why buy a house in Pattaya? Because you can.

Ooops marketing finesse just took a tumble..your web site is down methinks

[jori]

[

I care less what provision the Govt of Thailand possesses regarding land grab, but I know and have experienced results as mentioned and quite honestly you would get swatted like a fly.

You think laws here in Thailand would in any way protect a farangs property rights, you want to get your running shoes on again and get running around the block a few more times

Your point is well taken. Purchases of property in 3rd world countries do have risks. But millions of people have gone down this route with no problems. Sure, thousands have had problems and they are highlighted in news media around the world. Mexico, Spain and now it looks like Goa. But not all of India, just Goa. Seems to be a scam going on with the local officials. And it is not thousands and thousands. Unless my research is wrong, I've read that 400 are dealing with this now and there may be a thousand or more who will have to deal with this eventually:

Not 400 but 5 and a half thousand,every foreigner owned property in Goa.Every foreigner in India subject to 6 months in 2 months out policy,no matter if you have possession of your house your still kicked out from living in it, and I believe even that is getting shortened to 3 months in 2 months out.

Countries around the world appear to be tightening up on visa rulings ,even Turkey where many foreigners live is making it mandatory for foreigners to leave after a spell

[Rimmer]

Off topic posts and quoted replies removed from view, this is the last public warning. Next off topic post gets you a holiday pass.

[tomhuayyai]

Is the question Why buy a house OR Why buy a house in Pattaya?

Why buy a house?

The simple truth of all property ownership is you make the profit when you buy, not when you sell. That is why some houses (or condos) do not re-sell well. It is also the reason why some are still making some money even in this downturn and why Pattaya is continuing to grow in the last two years despite western world recession.

In the Pattaya area, a lack of marketing finesse is another reason for the lack of re-sales. Putting a sign outside yr house or a photo up in Friendship for a week is not going to do it.

Hearing some agents calling over Sukhumvit 'the dark side' just amazes me. Especially as many live there. Along with thousands of other people. But if it keeps it being a great place to live, then so be it.

I am a small time developer in Huay Yai taking small profits and have sold 3 villas in last 12 months. We are currently building the fourth villa at b5,500,000. Not a small sum and yet not so much when compared with property sale prices back home. Wherever that may be.

Our buyers have found a well built villa, in a lovely environment, at exceptional value. And all seem jolly pleased with it - even after the ink has dried! One buyer was renting for the last 5 years at 40,000 pcm. Ask him if that was money well spent! The web site is huyyaivillas.com

Why buy in Pattaya?

Pattaya offers something that is unavailable anywhere else in the world in such a friendly environment and for that reason, guys will keep coming here and wanting to stay here for the very long forseeabe future. To answer the question - Why buy a house in Pattaya? Because you can.

Ooops marketing finesse just took a tumble..your web site is down methinks

Just checked. Not sure what happened earlier. Its working now.

[tomhuayyai]

I think many if not most posts here are missing the point. If not the point then the real question.

Is Pattaya a good place to buy a house?

The answer has got to be a resounding yes. Having seen the amount of growth here in the last two years, despite western world recession, it seems that Pattaya has far from had its day but just continues to be going generally in the right direction.

And despite exchange rate changes it still offers fantastic value.

If those who want to rent carry on renting, then those who want to buy and receive the rent will happy to take it. The moment people stop renting is the time there is going to be a problem.

[rgs2001uk]

Is the question Why buy a house OR Why buy a house in Pattaya?

Why buy a house?

The simple truth of all property ownership is you make the profit when you buy, not when you sell. That is why some houses (or condos) do not re-sell well. It is also the reason why some are still making some money even in this downturn and why Pattaya is continuing to grow in the last two years despite western world recession.

In the Pattaya area, a lack of marketing finesse is another reason for the lack of re-sales. Putting a sign outside yr house or a photo up in Friendship for a week is not going to do it.

Hearing some agents calling over Sukhumvit 'the dark side' just amazes me. Especially as many live there. Along with thousands of other people. But if it keeps it being a great place to live, then so be it.

I am a small time developer in

taking small profits and have sold 3 villas in last 12 months. We are currently building the fourth villa at b5,500,000. Not a small sum and yet not so much when compared with property sale prices back home. Wherever that may be.

Our buyers have found a well built villa, in a lovely environment, at exceptional value. And all seem jolly pleased with it - even after the ink has dried! One buyer was renting for the last 5 years at 40,000 pcm. Ask him if that was money well spent! The web site is huyyaivillas.com

Why buy in Pattaya?

Pattaya offers something that is unavailable anywhere else in the world in such a friendly environment and for that reason, guys will keep coming here and wanting to stay here for the very long forseeabe future. To answer the question - Why buy a house in Pattaya? Because you can.

Ooops marketing finesse just took a tumble..your web site is down methinks

Just checked. Not sure what happened earlier. Its working now.

The answer may lie here,

huyyaivillas.com

try copying and pasting into google.

I think you misspelt huyyaivillas.com.

คิดก่อนเขียน for non Thai readers think before posting.

Did you mean to write huayyaivillas.com?

Edited November 11, 2010 by rgs2001uk

[moo9]

Is Pattaya a good place to buy a house?

The answer has got to be a resounding yes. Having seen the amount of growth here in the last two years, despite western world recession, it seems that Pattaya has far from had its day but just continues to be going generally in the right direction.

And despite exchange rate changes it still offers fantastic value.

What's the meaning of these general statements? All depends on the quality and the price you will pay. So Pattaya is going into the right direction? Can you define the right direction? Are you intending to express, that in future public roadworks will be shortened from never finish to half finished afer 5 yrs?

Where was a growth in Pattaya during the last two years? The fact that big intl hotels are coming does not mean that more tourists will come automatically. And even the big hotel chains need some locations for write offs for tax reasons.

Fantastic value...maybe if you compare with metropoles in Europe but other than that? Quality, craftmanship...do you believe that any building will surpass a lifetime of 25 to 30 years?

If you are sure that your income / pension is stable and matching the inflation and baht strengthening, if you are sure that you can have a nice family life here, having a trustful Thai wife, then it might be right to buy at the right price to stay in your premises.

If you are interested in quick gains, you better gamble in Cambodia or Macau. From what I can see now very real is a departure of many expats, who stayed here long time. And I don't see many new ones arriving. Getting a job is harder than ever, because Thai companies prefer to pay meaningless high salaries to their people, international companies just limit the foreign specialists.

So after all we will be staying with high quality Russian and Asian tour groups. If this is your expressed definition of growth...you might be right, but in this year even those groups are on the decline being replace by even higher classed visitors from Iran and other quality countries.

Well, I can't stand it anymore.

G'night

[johninbkk]

OP, your assessment and perception is wrong on this...

Think about it... Thais are building block after block of new developments. New condos and new houses are springing up everywhere. They seem to have no problem selling.

So why are your neighbors having trouble selling? There is one reason: Price. They simply want too much. If they offer their property at a more attractive price, they can sell it in a month, a week, or a day and get multiple cash offers. It all comes down to price.

I totally disagree with this comment.

What is your suggested discount to sell a property? Half sell price? Do you expect people to take a loss? I am offering a property 3 mill off, so where are the punter breaking down my door? As you suggested if I heavily discount I should be able to sell in a month, week, or a day.......; the market is so depressed it will take years to recover. It's simply a case of oversupply. Another post was that all property will sell, good quality, I also disagree, my property is 200 mtrs from the beach and offering 3 mill off, it's a quality villa. Had it rented for 65K on yearly contract so it's no dump in a poor area. It's a case of waiting it out as I don't believe in bastardizing the property, this only screws up the whole market. Let the poor quality in poor areas sell @ 70% off.

[kevkev1888]

^^^^

LOL

3 million off what?

the price you paid?

what you think its worth?

what an agent told you it was worth?

The asking price of similar property?

A random number you picked out of the air?

Now if you where to knock 3 million off it's current market value, and market it aggressively

It would sell.

[Rumcabal]

Half sell price? Do you expect people to take a loss? I am offering a property 3 mill off,

Well, if you bought at the peak and the market turns and you really want to sell then, Yes you will make a loss. It was an investment that didnt work out. If I buy an overpriced house and try to sell it next year I'm not automatically 'entitled' to a profit. I can try and make one but its not a 'right' I have.

And as for your 3 mill off, thats a meaningless number. 3 mill off from what?? The only number that matters is what the market will bear right now. That is what you can sell it for. Plucking a number from the sky and subtracting 3 mill is pointless........

[craigt3365]

OP, your assessment and perception is wrong on this...

Think about it... Thais are building block after block of new developments. New condos and new houses are springing up everywhere. They seem to have no problem selling.

So why are your neighbors having trouble selling? There is one reason: Price. They simply want too much. If they offer their property at a more attractive price, they can sell it in a month, a week, or a day and get multiple cash offers. It all comes down to price.

I totally disagree with this comment.

What is your suggested discount to sell a property? Half sell price? Do you expect people to take a loss? I am offering a property 3 mill off, so where are the punter breaking down my door? As you suggested if I heavily discount I should be able to sell in a month, week, or a day.......; the market is so depressed it will take years to recover. It's simply a case of oversupply. Another post was that all property will sell, good quality, I also disagree, my property is 200 mtrs from the beach and offering 3 mill off, it's a quality villa. Had it rented for 65K on yearly contract so it's no dump in a poor area. It's a case of waiting it out as I don't believe in bastardizing the property, this only screws up the whole market. Let the poor quality in poor areas sell @ 70% off.

Check out this report. Incredible discounts in the US on luxury homes. Wish I had the dough! Great time to buy in many places around the world...as long as you are in it for the long term....

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/real_estate/1011/gallery.million_dollar_bargains/index.html

[tomhuayyai]

Is the question Why buy a house OR Why buy a house in Pattaya?

Why buy a house?

The simple truth of all property ownership is you make the profit when you buy, not when you sell. That is why some houses (or condos) do not re-sell well. It is also the reason why some are still making some money even in this downturn and why Pattaya is continuing to grow in the last two years despite western world recession.

In the Pattaya area, a lack of marketing finesse is another reason for the lack of re-sales. Putting a sign outside yr house or a photo up in Friendship for a week is not going to do it.

Hearing some agents calling over Sukhumvit 'the dark side' just amazes me. Especially as many live there. Along with thousands of other people. But if it keeps it being a great place to live, then so be it.

I am a small time developer in

taking small profits and have sold 3 villas in last 12 months. We are currently building the fourth villa at b5,500,000. Not a small sum and yet not so much when compared with property sale prices back home. Wherever that may be.

Our buyers have found a well built villa, in a lovely environment, at exceptional value. And all seem jolly pleased with it - even after the ink has dried! One buyer was renting for the last 5 years at 40,000 pcm. Ask him if that was money well spent! The web site is huyyaivillas.com

Why buy in Pattaya?

Pattaya offers something that is unavailable anywhere else in the world in such a friendly environment and for that reason, guys will keep coming here and wanting to stay here for the very long forseeabe future. To answer the question - Why buy a house in Pattaya? Because you can.

Ooops marketing finesse just took a tumble..your web site is down methinks

Just checked. Not sure what happened earlier. Its working now.

The answer may lie here,

huyyaivillas.com

try copying and pasting into google.

I think you misspelt huyyaivillas.com.

คิดก่อนเขียน for non Thai readers think before posting.

Did you mean to write huayyaivillas.com?

Sorry. You are absolutely correct. My mistake. A typo. It is huayyaivillas.com

Edited November 13, 2010 by tomhuayyai

[jori]

Why buy a house in Pattaya? easy answer = because next year you can sell it at half the price you paid for it,and the year after that and so on. Better to cast it in the 10 million Baht or so range or whatever figure you can think of ,the game will last longer then.

[tomhuayyai]

Is Pattaya a good place to buy a house?

The answer has got to be a resounding yes. Having seen the amount of growth here in the last two years, despite western world recession, it seems that Pattaya has far from had its day but just continues to be going generally in the right direction.

And despite exchange rate changes it still offers fantastic value.

What's the meaning of these general statements? All depends on the quality and the price you will pay. So Pattaya is going into the right direction? Can you define the right direction? Are you intending to express, that in future public roadworks will be shortened from never finish to half finished afer 5 yrs?

Where was a growth in Pattaya during the last two years? The fact that big intl hotels are coming does not mean that more tourists will come automatically. And even the big hotel chains need some locations for write offs for tax reasons.

Fantastic value...maybe if you compare with metropoles in Europe but other than that? Quality, craftmanship...do you believe that any building will surpass a lifetime of 25 to 30 years?

If you are sure that your income / pension is stable and matching the inflation and baht strengthening, if you are sure that you can have a nice family life here, having a trustful Thai wife, then it might be right to buy at the right price to stay in your premises.

If you are interested in quick gains, you better gamble in Cambodia or Macau. From what I can see now very real is a departure of many expats, who stayed here long time. And I don't see many new ones arriving. Getting a job is harder than ever, because Thai companies prefer to pay meaningless high salaries to their people, international companies just limit the foreign specialists.

So after all we will be staying with high quality Russian and Asian tour groups. If this is your expressed definition of growth...you might be right, but in this year even those groups are on the decline being replace by even higher classed visitors from Iran and other quality countries.

Well, I can't stand it anymore.

G'night

Some interesting points made and I would prehaps share some of the sentiment, but not neccesarily all of the points.

I was considering that Pattaya is growing as a whole in general size and actual facilities despite a western world recession. That in itself may not be to everyones taste. And from what you posted I guess, not yours. Maybe it should be a seperate topic in itself.

Sure, Pattaya does have huge problems - and not just the roads etc., or lack of ability to build them but also a tenacity to build things just for the hel_l of it which are ill thought out, poorely constructed and even not needed. But that is definately not something new. Those ill-fated green planters on the pavements were just one previous example.

I dont believe for one second that international hotels opening here is to write off tax.

For some, the grass might well be greener elsewhere - something I first heard when I arrived here to live 8 years ago, but it does seem to me that there are still people coming here (to live) from all over the world, be they of any or all nationalities.

Of the value issue, I recently saw a list produced by the BBC of the 5 best value beach destinations in the world. I cannot remember all of them, but South Africa was top and Thailand was third (I think). Those people complaining that their pension does not go as far are right, except it may well go a lot less far back in their home country. GBP 145 for a TV license anyone? And sure, not everyone comes to Thaiand for a beach holiday, but getting back on topic, it is part of the overall package/ambience and reason on why they choose to buy a house and live here.

Finally, less than 25 years for the life expectancy of a building here?? If they are properly maintained and lived in. Yes, that and much more. But that condition is true of buildings anywhere.

Edited November 13, 2010 by tomhuayyai

[TJo]

In terms of the numbers of properties sold in Pattaya, how do you think well over 100 property agents (plus plenty of freelancers) stay in business? It is far from cheap to operate an office, pay for adverts, pay staff salaries, etc, etc, yet for such a small town many seem to do so even in a relatively quiet market. I wouldn't say for one minute that there are as many properties being sold as there were a few years ago when the market was absolutely booming, but once again the same is true of lots of property markets all over the World. I think the truth is that as with many things upon which you claim knowledge, actually you have no appreciation whatsoever as to how many properties are being sold in Pattaya.

How do they stay in business then? Is it the rental market? It is purely anecdotal (which in the case of the Pattaya real estate market seems about the most reliable source of information), but my understanding is that the sales market is as dead as the proverbial dodo.

Who is buying in Pattaya? What is being sold?