Why Buy A House In Pattaya

[tomhuayyai]

If you buy property in Thailand you should go in with open eyes and expect that you may never recoup anything from your investment.

I guess you could say that about every investment.

And unlike everywhere else in the world? I have seen property drop 40% in England in 3 months. Nothing is certain in life......

I am surprised no one has said the old line about renting being dead money........... Hey ho. Each to their own.

[Tolley]

If you buy property in Thailand you should go in with open eyes and expect that you may never recoup anything from your investment.

I guess you could say that about every investment.

And unlike everywhere else in the world? I have seen property drop 40% in England in 3 months. Nothing is certain in life......

I am surprised no one has said the old line about renting being dead money........... Hey ho. Each to their own.

Sure but some investments are a lot more risky than others.

Caveat emptor!

[Naam]

are you sure you really 'own' your property? What kind of shady company was formed?

Don't be surprised to see a crackdown on this in the near future.

that's what poor Farangs, who can't afford to buy a house, are telling me since more than 20 years

[Benjie]

<br />Just in the interests of basic financial literacy, it's worth remembering that <br /><br />You either rent a property or you rent the money to buy the property. Either way you rent.<br /><br />When you buy outright, you simply forgoe your potential investment income when you buy.<br /><br />This idea that rent money is wasted money and mortgage payments are somehow always more sensible is financial illiteracy. A popular and often repeated idea, but when I hear someone trot it out, I know they don't have a grasp of the fundamentals, and rely on platitudes to guide their thinking.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

Surely you are missing the point that a mortgage on my home is a set monthly cost for the next 20 years, Do you seriously think that rental prices wont go up in the next 15-20 years.

The rent isn't any cheaper than the mortgage and you will own the house in 20 years and then not have to pay rent any more.

[inzman]

I say if the house is for you to live in, buy. I sold my house on the "dark side" full price in a week. I lived in it for 4years, while recieveing rent for 2 additional years. I sold at the same price I bought but made 30% in the exchange rate. In addition I collected rent for two years. If its priced right and maintained, no problem to sell. Just looked at another house I liked, went back in a week, it was sold!Just goes to show if its priced right it will sell. Too many idiots think their house is special and want way too much for it. How much do they loose, leaving it emtpy for 2 years?

[champken]

So far I am still very, very happy that I bought a condo here. I happen to like condo living. A lot of people do. It's a matter of preference, living in a house is not better if you prefer the advantages of condo living. As far as finances, I was lucky to buy at a time of relative baht weakness. If I had to rent the place I was living in now the actual dollar cost to me (as I am dollar based) would be quite burdensome. As it is now, the rent is covered as there is no rent, and I am decently positioned to be able to stay in Thailand (which is what I want) with a strong baht. Of course timing and luck come into play. As far as buying now, that's another story!

Agreed! your situation is almost the same as mine, i bought a modest,well located [near beach front] condo when the pound was at about 69b it would cost me approx 10k p month [£200+] to rent something similar and if i ever do decide to sell then in theory i could sell at a 30% reduction to what i paid, that's of course if i was going back to the UK, so not everyone that has or will buy a condo is nuts, but i do agree now may not be the best time to buy, but if you do i would go for an established condo building where the majority of the units are already owned

One other point worth mentioning is i paid approx £13000 for my unit which saves me £200+ per month in rent, so whats that? 18% or so...

Edited November 5, 2010 by champken

[TJG]

From some of the posts here you would think we had a bunch or real estate agents posting on this thread.

The real facts are that most foreigners who invest in the Pattaya property market dont make any substantial capital gains out of their housing investment and for many they can't even sell when they want to get out.

When we add all the scams, Thai laws, poltical instability etc into the pot it just seems easier to me anyway not to buy but to rent.

Good luck to all those people who own propery in Pattaya.

That is your decision but please don't sugar coat the harsh reality of owning property in Thailand.

And please dont bring up anecdotal evidence about you next door neighbour who made a killing on some property investment and pretend that this is the norm.

If you buy property in Thailand you should go in with open eyes and expect that you may never recoup anything from your investment.

If you are happy with this scenario then go right ahead and buy.

Incredible. So where do you get your "real facts" from? I would really be interested to know. Because it seems to me that you know very little at all about the real estate market here. Right now, in most countries around the World real estate is tough. I watched a show about Las Vegas and the situation there is horrendous. Prior to the downturn, lots of people were making very good money by investing in real estate in Pattaya, and when the market turns I have no doubt they will again. Even during the downturn, those who have purchased the right properties at the right price have done absolutely fine. Those who bought the wrong property at the wrong price have done badly. Just as they have elsewhere in the World.

Successful property investment has never been as simple as buying any old property at any old price and making money. You need knowledge, experience and to exercise a great deal of care. With that, Pattaya can be (and for many investors has been) a very interesting and rewarding real estate market in which to invest. And these people are not my next door neighbours, but they most certainly are real.

[craigt3365]

It is an old property adage - you make the profit when you buy, not when you sell.

I guess it concludes as you have stated - you realise the profit you have made when you sell, but the profit was made when you bought, as you stated. If you bought badly, you will never do as well as you could have.

To expand the analogy. Time and care spent when buying will realise the profit later.

Hope that makes sense.

I got ya now...makes sense. A bit like researching and buying the best stock. No guarantee, but better than putting your money on a losing horse....

From some of the posts here you would think we had a bunch or real estate agents posting on this thread.

The real facts are that most foreigners who invest in the Pattaya property market dont make any substantial capital gains out of their housing investment and for many they can't even sell when they want to get out.

When we add all the scams, Thai laws, poltical instability etc into the pot it just seems easier to me anyway not to buy but to rent.

Good luck to all those people who own propery in Pattaya.

That is your decision but please don't sugar coat the harsh reality of owning property in Thailand.

And please dont bring up anecdotal evidence about you next door neighbour who made a killing on some property investment and pretend that this is the norm.

If you buy property in Thailand you should go in with open eyes and expect that you may never recoup anything from your investment.

If you are happy with this scenario then go right ahead and buy.

I'm willing to not sugar coat how good owning property here is. There are issues for sure. Shoddy construction, lack of standards, security, land ownership complexities, etc. But on the other hand, don't say most who invest here lose money. Or that it is impossible to sell. A lot have made big money (I personally know quite a few), some have made a little money (I personally know a lot). And others have lost money (I bought my house from a guy who lost 2M Baht). But not everybody who invests here in RE loses money. That just not true. Nor is it true that most lose money.

it's just been recent that RE has turned sour. I'm from Vegas and made big money there...but not now. My partner just filed for bankruptcy. I'm in the biz, but just as a passive investor. So should we say good luck to people who bought in Vegas? No way. It will come back. There are some fantastic deals there if you have a longer time horizon. If you're a flipper, forget it.

I've been through several downturns in the market...this is a bad one...but RE will recover. Eventually...but it will go higher.

Right now, with the exception of a few markets, don't buy property anywhere and expect to recoup your investment. Unless you do your research. Then you can make money anywhere. It can be done...and is being done. And that's not sugar coating anything.

[CGW]

are you sure you really 'own' your property? What kind of shady company was formed?

Don't be surprised to see a crackdown on this in the near future.

that's what poor Farangs, who can't afford to buy a house, are telling me since more than 20 years

Quite, i believe some of the "poor Farangs" are praying for the crackdown (that will never come!) just so they can say they were right!

[pmgthailand]

Just in the interests of basic financial literacy, it's worth remembering that

You either rent a property or you rent the money to buy the property. Either way you rent.

When you buy outright, you simply forgoe your potential investment income when you buy.

This idea that rent money is wasted money and mortgage payments are somehow always more sensible is financial illiteracy. A popular and often repeated idea, but when I hear someone trot it out, I know they don't have a grasp of the fundamentals, and rely on platitudes to guide their thinking.

I was kinda thinking the same thing but I didn't want to sound simple. Rent or mortgage is just one of those fundamental costs that you have to pay to live, regardless. Like the electric bill, car payment or food, it has to be paid every month. It cannot really be considered as a cost deduction in an equation can it? How you manage these costs over the years, because you will always have them, is the key.

[Beardog]

It is worth owning property in Pattaya or elsewhere. If you have a good gal that doesn't turn face on you You can own fine. Land & houses are so dirt cheap comparing to the U.S. if you lose out you can still go another round here or some where else.I look at my new house as an investment for myself & my honey. The house is not & was not intended to sell. As for trying to buy property for sale land only seems to be much easier & the profit line is greater another distressed house on the market in Pattaya area is a bust. so if your asking about making profit, I think rolling autos & trucks are a better game. If you're talking about houses to live in- to me it is far better & since we built NOT TO SELL I have non regrets & love my Home we built in Pattaya area(Bang Saray) That & we got an awesome builder that built us a house that only developed one crack during wet season (3 months ago built) & it was a fine superficial crack that I repaired already.As for real estate if you break even or make money on a project congratulations!

[swissie]

The real estate market is somewhat slow in Pattaya, I hear. But consolation for the would-be sellers is at hand and just around the corner (according to agents that sell real-estate to Farangs):

- IT'S THE CHINESE,STUPID ! = The upcoming chinese middle-claas will gobble-up all the vacant houses/condos in Thailand.

Funny, I heard this before. A while ago, it was supposed to be the Austalians and their money made in the booming mining industrie). After that it was supposed to be the "funny money" from Russia that was to do the trick. Now it's the chinese ! Let's hope this will come to pass. If not, little green man from Mars with a big wallet will have to enter the scene. Cheers.

[tropo]

- i have great difficulty understanding why anyone would buy a condo,

In a word - SECURITY

...especially for people who like to lock their door and go away for several months at a time.

Edited November 5, 2010 by tropo

[craigt3365]

- i have great difficulty understanding why anyone would buy a condo,

In a word - SECURITY

...especially for people who like to lock their door and go away for several months at a time.

Point well taken. This is a big deal here. When we leave for a few months, we have to have somebody live here. Which luckily is not a big deal...but we can't just lock it up and leave. But then, that is true in many areas around the world. My parents lived in a nice neighborhood in Las Vegas. The would leave for the summer and had their house broken into 2 times. Happens everywhere, not just here.

[LennyW]

In a word - SECURITY

...especially for people who like to lock their door and go away for several months at a time.

Granted security can be a plus point for a condo (although it is sometimes not all it is meant to be), but it is little justification the high price per SqM for condo's, far more value for money in a house (Baht / SqM), in my opinion anyway, but each to his own.

[Rimmer]

One off topic post deleted, Once again so that we are all clear the topic is not about forming companies, owning land or having a thirty year lease. all this has been discussed in depth elsewhere.

[witold]

OP, your assessment and perception is wrong on this...

Think about it... Thais are building block after block of new developments. New condos and new houses are springing up everywhere. They seem to have no problem selling.

So why are your neighbors having trouble selling? There is one reason: Price. They simply want too much. If they offer their property at a more attractive price, they can sell it in a month, a week, or a day and get multiple cash offers. It all comes down to price.

The exact same thing is happening in my hometown of Washington DC. You see many delusional people trying to sell their sub-par property for 2005 bubble prices and so the property lingers on the market for years. At the same time, you see people pricing their property more realistically and getting multiple offers within a week. I'm shopping around for a house right now, and the 3 properties I wanted to buy for full asking prices all had multiple offers within a week.

[thaimate]

AS i said he is trying to sell it at what he paid 5 years ago ,since then a pool has been added ,fully furnished ,and good decorative order .

we drive around a lot ,there are hundreds of houses with for sale boards ,if you want to give them away maybe they would sell ,but they dont seem to ,most have been on the market for years ,3 on our estate have never been lived in and been on sale from day 1 . also of the 12 new houses the developer has built one is rented nearly 10 months down the line /

[Thailaw]

AS i said he is trying to sell it at what he paid 5 years ago ,since then a pool has been added ,fully furnished ,and good decorative order .

we drive around a lot ,there are hundreds of houses with for sale boards ,if you want to give them away maybe they would sell ,but they dont seem to ,most have been on the market for years ,3 on our estate have never been lived in and been on sale from day 1 . also of the 12 new houses the developer has built one is rented nearly 10 months down the line /

There seems to be an unfounded fixation on "asking prices being too high". Has no one ever heard of making an offer if one has any serious interest in a house?Two house near me have been on the market for 4+ and 3 years. The prices may have been too high, but one has been reduced for over a year by B2.2 million and is listed with an agent and neither house has ever had an offer. During the times that each house has been on the market, thay have each had fewer than 5 prospective buyers look at the houses. I agree that if you offer a house at a "give away" price you can sell it and perhaps sell it quickly. But, that is what it takes to sell a house in Pattaya presently, a give away price. And of course, there are exceptions to every rule, and many can no doubt point to one or two. The exceptions do not make a market, and markets are not made up (nor can they be) of the rare individual that buys on distressed terms from a seller desperate to sell. This does not result from "doing ones homework", it is sheer (dumb?) luck.

[PattayaParent]

OP, your assessment and perception is wrong on this...

Think about it... Thais are building block after block of new developments. New condos and new houses are springing up everywhere. They seem to have no problem selling.

So why are your neighbors having trouble selling? There is one reason: Price. They simply want too much. If they offer their property at a more attractive price, they can sell it in a month, a week, or a day and get multiple cash offers. It all comes down to price.

The exact same thing is happening in my hometown of Washington DC. You see many delusional people trying to sell their sub-par property for 2005 bubble prices and so the property lingers on the market for years. At the same time, you see people pricing their property more realistically and getting multiple offers within a week. I'm shopping around for a house right now, and the 3 properties I wanted to buy for full asking prices all had multiple offers within a week.

There's lots of unfinished buildings around Pattaya that don't have the buyers to encourage the banks to finance the finishing of them.

Look at the buildings that have been finished at night time, they remain mostly empty jusdging by the lack of illumination.

There's been many new condo developments advertised over the last 5 years that have never ever started because of lack of interest and have quietly disappeared.

[witold]

I don't know about Pattaya, but 2005 was the peak of the RE bubble in the US. Very few things are selling at 2005 prices.

I think a lot of people list their place for sale and just sit on it. It's hard to say how serious they are about selling. If they are not reevaluating their price and strategy every month, they couldn't possibly be that serious about selling their place I would think...

Is there a way to check prior sales histories of similar properties? In the US, all these transactions are recorded so you know exactly how much every other place in the neighborhood sold for. Appraisers use these records to come up with appraisals. Is there anything similar in Thailand?

It doesn't matter how much they paid for their place. It only matters how much similar places are selling for right now.

Lastly, Pattaya is a tourist town. If tourists are coming and spending, houses will sell again and prices skyrocket. If tourists are cutting back, things will linger on the market until tourists come back and start spending again... Such places tend to be very seasonal.

Edited November 8, 2010 by witold

[Thailaw]

I don't know about Pattaya, but 2005 was the peak of the RE bubble in the US. Very few things are selling at 2005 prices.

I think a lot of people list their place for sale and just sit on it. It's hard to say how serious they are about selling. If they are not reevaluating their price and strategy every month, they couldn't possibly be that serious about selling their place I would think...

Is there a way to check prior sales histories of similar properties? In the US, all these transactions are recorded so you know exactly how much every other place in the neighborhood sold for. Appraisers use these records to come up with appraisals. Is there anything similar in Thailand?

It doesn't matter how much they paid for their place. It only matters how much similar places are selling for right now.

Lastly, Pattaya is a tourist town. If tourists are coming and spending, houses will sell again and prices skyrocket. If tourists are cutting back, things will linger on the market until tourists come back and start spending again... Such places tend to be very seasonal.

You point to a very serious difficulty here in Pattaya -- getting reliable, accurate information is extermely difficult. You can get lots of asking prices, which do not reflect "selling prices". But getting prices on houses that have sold recently (not many of those in any event) is very, very difficult. And the real estate agents here are totally unreliable, and have little to no incentive to accurately and honestly disclose recent transaction prices (most don't even know any). In fact, if they hope to make a sale, their incentive is to convince you that the "market price" is higher than it actually is, so that they increase their chance of selling someting that they have available at an unreasonable/unrealistic asking price. And many agents fulfill sellers' unrealistic expectations on price to convince a seller to list the house with them. The bias is to spiral asking prices higher and for houses to sit rather than sell. And the problem is compounted by the lack of reliable information. As a friend used to say, "there is an ass for every seat", and here the predominant strategy is to sit and wait for the ingnorant (uninformed) ass to fill the seat you are trying to sell. It doesn't work often, but it works in rare instances to give sellers "hope" and give the uninformed posters here one-off anecdotes to justify their purchases of houses that they cannot/could not sell at a price anywhere near what they paid for it -- "ignorence is bliss". But, "who cares?", right?

[craigt3365]

I don't know about Pattaya, but 2005 was the peak of the RE bubble in the US.  Very few things are selling at 2005 prices.  

I think a lot of people list their place for sale and just sit on it.  It's hard to say how serious they are about selling.  If they are not reevaluating their price and strategy every month, they couldn't possibly be that serious about selling their place I would think...

Is there a way to check prior sales histories of similar properties?  In the US, all these transactions are recorded so you know exactly how much every other place in the neighborhood sold for.  Appraisers use these records to come up with appraisals.  Is there anything similar in Thailand?  

It doesn't matter how much they paid for their place.  It only matters how much similar places are selling for right now.  

Lastly, Pattaya is a tourist town.  If tourists are coming and spending, houses will sell again and prices skyrocket.  If tourists are cutting back, things will linger on the market until tourists come back and start spending again... Such places tend to be very seasonal.  

My good friend is an agent in California. One of his big problems selling a house is dealing with the sellers opinion of what it is worth. Sure, it was worth XXX in 2005 when they bought it, but prices have fallen and it ain't worth that now. He walks away from these kinds of sellers. Big difference here is many of these places are bought without mortgages...so there's no pressure to sell. Unlike in the US where they are mortgaged to the hilt and they HAVE to sell.

I am pretty sure there is no "consolidated" database of home sales here. They don't even have a MLS type of system. Which makes it very difficult to sell a property as you can't really get it out to every agent in the area.

For sure Pattaya is a tourist town, but also an oil and gas town. And that industry is down. In my village, a good portion of the homes are owned by farangs in this biz. It's starting to pick up, and if that happens, it will help RE oriented towards this market.

Price has a lot to do with sales, but not everything. Look at Vegas. There were thousands of homes on the market due to foreclosures. All at rock bottom prices. And they still didn't sell. Just not enough buyers...

[TJG]

I don't know about Pattaya, but 2005 was the peak of the RE bubble in the US. Very few things are selling at 2005 prices.

I think a lot of people list their place for sale and just sit on it. It's hard to say how serious they are about selling. If they are not reevaluating their price and strategy every month, they couldn't possibly be that serious about selling their place I would think...

Is there a way to check prior sales histories of similar properties? In the US, all these transactions are recorded so you know exactly how much every other place in the neighborhood sold for. Appraisers use these records to come up with appraisals. Is there anything similar in Thailand?

It doesn't matter how much they paid for their place. It only matters how much similar places are selling for right now.

Lastly, Pattaya is a tourist town. If tourists are coming and spending, houses will sell again and prices skyrocket. If tourists are cutting back, things will linger on the market until tourists come back and start spending again... Such places tend to be very seasonal.

You point to a very serious difficulty here in Pattaya -- getting reliable, accurate information is extermely difficult. You can get lots of asking prices, which do not reflect "selling prices". But getting prices on houses that have sold recently (not many of those in any event) is very, very difficult. And the real estate agents here are totally unreliable, and have little to no incentive to accurately and honestly disclose recent transaction prices (most don't even know any). In fact, if they hope to make a sale, their incentive is to convince you that the "market price" is higher than it actually is, so that they increase their chance of selling someting that they have available at an unreasonable/unrealistic asking price. And many agents fulfill sellers' unrealistic expectations on price to convince a seller to list the house with them. The bias is to spiral asking prices higher and for houses to sit rather than sell. And the problem is compounted by the lack of reliable information. As a friend used to say, "there is an ass for every seat", and here the predominant strategy is to sit and wait for the ingnorant (uninformed) ass to fill the seat you are trying to sell. It doesn't work often, but it works in rare instances to give sellers "hope" and give the uninformed posters here one-off anecdotes to justify their purchases of houses that they cannot/could not sell at a price anywhere near what they paid for it -- "ignorence is bliss". But, "who cares?", right?

You really have absolutely no idea of what happens in the real estate market here, and you give buyers absolutely no credit whatsoever. The reality is that, as with most property markets, there are lots of overpriced properties for sale, perhaps even more here than in many other markets (as a majority of buyers buy with cash rather than mortgage finance and thus not so many sellers are motivated to reduce their prices in the way they might if they had big mortgages that they couldn't afford). I often say that perhaps 75% of properties on offer in this market, maybe even more, are not priced to sell. It is a fact and I wouldn't dispute it for a second. Moreover, sometimes someone with more money than sense will buy such a property, paying way more than they should for it and thus they will take on a bad investment, which may cause them to lose money in the future. Exactly the same thing happens in every single property market on the planet, nothing different about Pattaya and Thailand. BUT, the vast majority of buyers are not as stupid as you seem to believe. They take their time, they look around the market, they take advice from lots of different people and then once they have a very good idea of what market prices are (not those being asked, but those being achieved), they are in a position to consider making an offer as and when the right property comes up at the right price.

Whatever you think you know, the fool who pays way too much for a property having failed to look around is the exception (the one-off as you call it). By far and away the more common scenario is the careful individual who takes his time, does his research and finds the right property at the right price. I certainly fall into the latter category and judging by all the positive thoughts on property ownership in Thailand by those other property owners who have posted in this thread, it is very clear that most of them do as well. Have you ever considered that not everyone is as stupid as you obviously think they are?

In terms of the numbers of properties sold in Pattaya, how do you think well over 100 property agents (plus plenty of freelancers) stay in business? It is far from cheap to operate an office, pay for adverts, pay staff salaries, etc, etc, yet for such a small town many seem to do so even in a relatively quiet market. I wouldn't say for one minute that there are as many properties being sold as there were a few years ago when the market was absolutely booming, but once again the same is true of lots of property markets all over the World. I think the truth is that as with many things upon which you claim knowledge, actually you have no appreciation whatsoever as to how many properties are being sold in Pattaya.

[bangkokburning]

I was just perusing this thread...One thing not mentioned that the pool of punters willing and able to buy has diminished and will not return due to simple economics. That would be most of Europe and America. So...who are you selling to? That pool of buyers is gone and never to return. Further, Asians know better than to buy in a country they cannot hold title.

Smart people have homes and condos that they are willing to give to their spouses upon their demise or - rent.

Anyone else holding property in this place at this juncture is basically a sucker. The market is and has been in a bubble for years and the places at 1-2m are in worst stead although I could easily see the places +4m taking huge hits as well.

It's not just Pattaya. Its all places farang hold property.

Hope you are not waiting for the GBP/USD to rebound guys...

Malaysia has rule of law and land ownership. Save for alcohol, its about the same price or less for consumables. Property is a bargain.

HAH > it costs nothing to keep a staff of smarmy real esate agents and a staff girl in a B8k office on comiisions only. Best 95% dont even have work visas!

PS: I'd love a house and a garden but unless you like having your home broken into weekly no matter where you live in Thailand - better go with the condo. ESPECIALLY being a farang home yours will be watched for the moment you simply go out to a restaurant let alone to Singapore for the weekend. Bank on it!

Edited November 10, 2010 by bangkokburning

[BB1950]

PS: I'd love a house and a garden but unless you like having your home broken into weekly no matter where you live in Thailand - better go with the condo. ESPECIALLY being a farang home yours will be watched for the moment you simply go out to a restaurant let alone to Singapore for the weekend. Bank on it!

Wrong!

When I lived in a condo, it was constantly broken into. Almost bi-weekly. My suspicions were the security guards were involved because they know when you come and go. I lived in one house that was just opposite the security guard, it was broken into twice, while the house was under construction. Again, i suspected the security guards were involved. Ever since I lived in a house (2 of them) without security guards, I have never been broken into! This has been over 6 years. Many times when I take a quick absence, I don't even have to lock the door!

More wild, fanciful, and unsupported claims being distributed.

You can enjoy your cramped and noisy condo, while I enjoy my spacious and peaceful resort home with its' lush gardens and private pool.

Edited November 10, 2010 by BB1950

[thaimate]

I must be overdue for a break in Bangkokburning ,its 5 years now and not even had my sons bike pinched (which he leaves unlocked in the drive) if i had done this back home it would have been gone in a day.

however i still would not buy in Pattaya ,but my wife does have land and a building plot in her home town ,which she will return to when i leave this mortal coil ,then build a house to live out her days.

[Ohio]

We changed our minds about buying a house in Pattaya in 2008

1. Because there is no genuine title ownership to Farang & Condos don't appeal to us.

2. I felt the constant visits to Immigration was 'Police State' like.

3. I don't believe there is any 'value guide' that is dependable in Thailand.

So , we have the best of all , we kept our unencumbered Resort property in Perth, just bought a "Bargain" priced house in Las Vegas (Farangs can purchase outright & OWN property in USA) & lease or long term Hotel it in Penang & Patts. when there.

If we moved to Patts to stay permanent , one would have to reconsider.

[craigt3365]

PS: I'd love a house and a garden but unless you like having your home broken into weekly no matter where you live in Thailand - better go with the condo. ESPECIALLY being a farang home yours will be watched for the moment you simply go out to a restaurant let alone to Singapore for the weekend. Bank on it!

Wrong!

When I lived in a condo, it was constantly broken into. Almost bi-weekly. My suspicions were the security guards were involved because they know when you come and go. I lived in one house that was just opposite the security guard, it was broken into twice, while the house was under construction. Again, i suspected the security guards were involved. Ever since I lived in a house (2 of them) without security guards, I have never been broken into! This has been over 6 years. Many times when I take a quick absence, I don't even have to lock the door!

More wild, fanciful, and unsupported claims being distributed.

You can enjoy your cramped and noisy condo, while I enjoy my spacious and peaceful resort home with its' lush gardens and private pool.

Here, here. We've had a few breakins in our development, but all were on the outside wall and none had alarm systems. And one was due to the security guards! But you still have to be vigilant. No different than from where I come from, 50 miles outside Vegas. Vegas has spots that can be real bad.

We changed our minds about buying a house in Pattaya in 2008

1. Because there is no genuine title ownership to Farang & Condos don't appeal to us.

2. I felt the constant visits to Immigration was 'Police State' like.

3. I don't believe there is any 'value guide' that is dependable in Thailand.

So , we have the best of all , we kept our unencumbered Resort property in Perth, just bought a "Bargain" priced house in Las Vegas (Farangs can purchase outright & OWN property in USA) & lease or long term Hotel it in Penang & Patts. when there.

If we moved to Patts to stay permanent , one would have to reconsider.

We looked at those deals in Vegas. Some amazing properties being sold at bargain prices, as you have mentioned. But it gets cold there...and hot! And no water, quite dry. But a great town for entertainment and outdoor activities. Plenty to do. I've lived in and around Vegas, off and on, since 1975 when my parents moved there.

[jori]

ignorance is not an excuse.

Pattaya is full of farangs ripping off other farangs in addition to the locals.

You can own a condo but not land. End of story.

a fool and his money are soon parted.

If you don't agree please explain how a foreigner can own land 100% in Thailand.

I find it a little ironic that you raise the subject of ignorance. I have spoken at great length to countless Thai qualified lawyers as to what I can and cannot do vis-a-vis owning land in Thailand. Please excuse me if I prefer their legal opinions over yours. As a qualified and experienced lawyer myself (albeit not in Thailand), I feel that I am in a good position to understand properly the advice I have been given. Moreover, I know several foreign lawyers running the Bangkok offices of large international law firms who own property in Thailand via similar structures to the one used by me.

A lot of non-lawyers seem to believe that the law is black and white. It is not. It is countless shades of grey. One of the reasons why lawyers tend to be so well paid is that they can navigate those shades of grey to achieve objectives quite legally that cannot be achieved in a simple and straightforward manner. This is exactly what lawyers do, not just here in Thailand, but all around the World and if you think anything else then you are awfully naive (I won't use the word ignorant because I try not to be rude unnecessarily).

Now here is a guy who sounds as if has been around the block a few times (NOT)

If you asked a hundred lawyers for a sworn statement that your clock was running backwards you would get an answer from 100 lawyers it was. The law is black and white the countless shades of grey you mentioned are a lunatics rant,once your ears are pinned to a courtroom see how far the grey areas hold up.

Buy a house in a company name (say Joe Bloggs Emporium),now if there was such a place operating independently from your house ,yes you are legit,if the name appears on your letter box flap of your house ie no Emporium ,potentially your in trouble,as others around the world(bit closer to home actually)have found out about and are being stripped of their homes

Buying in a land where you need a visa to live in is risky,just a tweak here,a tweak there renders you homeless