August 15th, 60th Anniversary Of The End Of Ww2

[Nordlys]

I did attend a memorial service ten years ago at Kanchanaburi allied war cemetery on 50th anniversary of the end of the WW2. Does anybody know if there's going to be a similar event in Thailand on coming August 15th?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There will be for sure. There was a ripper there for the 50 year anniversary. The ex POW's come ' volunteers ' celebrated the end one day later ... 'coz the Japs held off for a day, telling them that the war had ended.

[Nordlys]

There will be for sure. There was a ripper there for the 50 year anniversary. The ex POW's come ' volunteers '  celebrated the end one day later   ...   'coz the Japs held off for a day, telling them that the war had ended.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yes I remember that. I think the Japanese ambassador was there along with at least one ex-railway guard whose presence might have caused some of the ex-POWs to "boycott" the event that day (though he was there to atone). I also happened to be one of the "Japs" there but I was sitting with a bunch of British tourists whom I came to know at the guest house. I wonder how many ex-POWs and ex-guard will make it there this time, if any. Anybody knows what time the memorial service will start this year?

BTW does anybody know if Aussie reporter Micool Brooke who wrote a great book "Captive of the River Kwae" is still with the Bangkok Post? I bought his book at Kan guest house with his autograph inscription that reads "we are all prisoner of the River Kwae".

Edited August 7, 2005 by Nordlys

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I can't recall hearing of him for a good while. There was supposed to be Kempetai present at the 50 year memorial as well. That wouldn't have gone down well with the POW's

[Nordlys]

I can't recall hearing of him for a good while.  There was supposed to be Kempetai present at the 50 year memorial as well. That wouldn't have gone down well with the POW's

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No wonder why some ex-POWs didn't attend. I think the ex-guard whom I saw was a translator or something by the name of Nagase, believe he came in good faith and made reconciliation with some of the ex-POWs on that event.

I miss reading Micool Brooke's articles in the post.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I can't recall hearing of him for a good while.  There was supposed to be Kempetai present at the 50 year memorial as well. That wouldn't have gone down well with the POW's

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No wonder why some ex-POWs didn't attend. I think the ex-guard whom I saw was a translator or something by the name of Nagase, believe he came in good faith and made reconciliation with some of the ex-POWs on that event.

I miss reading Micool Brooke's articles in the post.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He wasn't well thought of by the Australian and British POW's. He rightly contended that after 50 years it was time for closure.

[Nordlys]

I can't recall hearing of him for a good while.  There was supposed to be Kempetai present at the 50 year memorial as well. That wouldn't have gone down well with the POW's

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No wonder why some ex-POWs didn't attend. I think the ex-guard whom I saw was a translator or something by the name of Nagase, believe he came in good faith and made reconciliation with some of the ex-POWs on that event.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He wasn't well thought of by the Australian and British POW's. He rightly contended that after 50 years it was time for closure.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Really? Having reconciled with some of the high-profile names in the ex-POW community like Eric Lomax who wrote "Railway Man" and some ex-POWs who lived (and may still live) in Kanchanaburi even after the war, thought most ex-POWs forgave him. So no closure for Aussie and British ex-POWs yet? Will they take their grudge to their graves with them? Guess you can't blame them though.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

It is time for all parties to forgive and forget.

[fxm88]

Thailand will be celebrating the end of WWII by discounting all Nazi inspired merchandise by up to 70%! Now is the time to buy that swastika motorcy helmet you've had your eye on. Or maybe you'd prefer that stylish "white power" t-shirt. Enjoy the savings while they last. (Please note that these discounts are applicable only to right-facing nazi-inspired merchandise and do not include left-facing buddhism styled swastika merchandise.)

[Neeranam]

Now is the time to buy that swastika motorcy helmet

The Thais are confused to what the NAZI SWASTIKA means.

Did you know the origins of how the Thais greet themselves, "sawadee ka/krap"?

The word "swastika" comes from Sanskrit - "su" meaning "good luck," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

I am ignorant of Thailands involvement in this war. Could someone please enlighten me?

Also, what victory does the "Anu saowaree charmora phum" or Victory Monument remember?

[Nordlys]

Did you know the origins of how the Thais greet themselves, "sawadee ka/krap"?

The word "swastika" comes from Sanskrit - "su" meaning "good luck," "asti" meaning "to be," and "ka" as a suffix.

Sounds ironic, but you're right on that! But Swastika is really the origin of the word "Sawasdee"?

I am ignorant of Thailands involvement in this war. Could someone please enlighten me?

Thailand was part of axis power in WW2 and declared war on US, UK and other allied powers immediately after pearl harbor, but revoked the war declaration and declared peace immediately after Japanese defeat on August 15th, 1945.

Also, what victory does the "Anu saowaree charmora phum" or Victory Monument remember?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Victory in war with Burma?

[Neeranam]

Thanks.

Sawasdee is actually pronounced sawatdee.

[jomama]

Also, what victory does the "Anu saowaree charmora phum" or Victory Monument remember?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Victory Monument commemorates those who died in national service – policemen, military officers and civilians. The concrete monument has a number of statues representing the services alongside plates commemorating those who died in the Franco-Thai dispute of 1943.

--From discoverythailand.com

Is this the naval engament near Koh Chang when French gunboats defeated ships from the Thai navy?

Kind of hard to think of a victory, though...except by King Taksin over the Burmese .

Attached is a picture from 1946 taken by a British survey to gauge the rice situation in Thailand ... thinking about war reparations (which didn't happen).

[Rinrada]

[Thailand was part of axis power in WW2 and declared war on US, UK and other allied powers immediately after pearl harbor, but revoked the war declaration and declared peace immediately after Japanese defeat on August 15th, 1945.

Victory in war with Burma?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not strickly True

On the day that that the Philbul government declared war on the United States and England Seni publically announced that the true sypathies of the Thai people were with the ALLIES not Phibul.

He further declared that the Thai Embassy in Washington was Independent of the Government in Bangers.

When he....M.R.Seni arrived at the U.S state Dept. for a meeting with Sec.of State Cordell Hull to deliver a copy of the Thai Declaration of War he tapped his pocket and said to Hull "I will hang on to this cause I dont think it represents the will of the Thai people and with a bit of help from you lot ...I intend to prove it."

Thus Thailands Declaration of War against the United States was NEVER given and in effect NEVER happened..... .......unlike England.

Pridi Panomyong and M.R.Seni Pramoj viewed the Thai Resistance Movement "Seri Thai-Free Thailand"as a means for achieving post war political goals (and could suggest favours..wont of course) however with the help of overseas Thai volunteers and with assistance and manpower from both the OSS and SOE the outcome is as we can now suggest ... history ....all jolly good stuff.

Suggest

"The Thai Resistance Movement during the Second World War"

by John B.Haseman.........try Asia books

[sadman]

Pridi Panomyong and M.R.Seni Pramoj viewed the Thai Resistance Movement "Seri Thai-Free Thailand"as a means for achieving post war political goals (and could suggest favours..wont of course) however with the help of overseas Thai volunteers and with assistance and manpower from both the OSS and SOE the outcome is as we can now suggest ... history ....all jolly good stuff.

I may be wrong, but my knowledge of history (which is not great, it must be said) tells me that after the war, the Allies were going to annex Thailand and 'give' it to the then Malaya as a punishment for siding with the Japanese. Seems a bit unfair, as the Japanese were a tad closer than any of the Allies (Burma, Singapore, etc etc) and unlikely to brook much dissent. Anyway, that suggests which side Thailand was on.

However, I wasn't born until 15 years after the war ended, I've never been imprisoned, tortured or kept as a slave by the Japanese and nor have the vast majority of people. 99% of the world gets on ok with the Germans, Finns, and so on, so let's move on, shall we? I would never try to persuade a former PoW of this, but the world is older and (hopefully) a little wiser.

That doesn't mean we should forget, and it definitely doesn't mean we shouldn't forgive what specific individuals did, but surely the sins of the fathers shouldn't be visited on the sons.

[TizMe]

It is time for all parties to forgive and forget.

It's definately not time to forget. Its time to remember.

[jomama]

I may be wrong, but my knowledge of history (which is not great, it must be said) tells me that after the war, the Allies were going to annex Thailand and 'give' it to the then Malaya as a punishment for siding with the Japanese.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The British wanted to treat Thailand as a conquered warring nation, including asking for reparations, but the USA stopped it. The strongman prime minister, a general who sided with Japan, fled to Tokyo.

As a side note: The British actually "liberated" Vietnam from the Japanese and Vichy French and provided government and police, etc. (some of whom were former Japanese soldiers) until the Allied French could get organized an reassume control of the country. The USA opposed that, but the Europeans went ahead. One wonders what history would be if the Vietnamese had gotten freedom then...

In the North of Thailand we can see the results of Thai coperation with the Japanese in the form of roads -- particularly the Chiang Mai - Pai - Mae Hong Son route that is so popular today. Using that road, Thai and Japanese troops attacked the Shan state of Burma and Thailand annexed it, setting up Thai government and flying the Thai flag there. The Japanese wanted to go after the British in Burma but it seems not too much happened in the northern area due to climate and terrain.

When the war eneded Japanese soldiers poured into Thailand without any real organization to transport them south and had to make their way as best they could. There are legends about Japanese who stayed on, living in remote villages. I believe there is a Japanese cemetary of sorts near Mae Hong Son (on the route from Mae Sariang).

The airport and railway station in Chiang Mai were bombed by the Allies during the war. I've asked many people about stories etc. that they heard from their grandparents or whomever -- not much verbal history that I could find.

[wilko]

[Thailand was part of axis power in WW2 and declared war on US, UK and other allied powers immediately after pearl harbor, but revoked the war declaration and declared peace immediately after Japanese defeat on August 15th, 1945.

Victory in war with Burma?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not strickly True

On the day that that the Philbul government declared war on the United States and England Seni publically announced that the true sypathies of the Thai people were with the ALLIES not Phibul.

He further declared that the Thai Embassy in Washington was Independent of the Government in Bangers.

When he....M.R.Seni arrived at the U.S state Dept. for a meeting with Sec.of State Cordell Hull to deliver a copy of the Thai Declaration of War he tapped his pocket and said to Hull "I will hang on to this cause I dont think it represents the will of the Thai people and with a bit of help from you lot ...I intend to prove it."

Thus Thailands Declaration of War against the United States was NEVER given and in effect NEVER happened..... .......unlike England.

Pridi Panomyong and M.R.Seni Pramoj viewed the Thai Resistance Movement "Seri Thai-Free Thailand"as a means for achieving post war political goals (and could suggest favours..wont of course) however with the help of overseas Thai volunteers and with assistance and manpower from both the OSS and SOE the outcome is as we can now suggest ... history ....all jolly good stuff.

Suggest

"The Thai Resistance Movement during the Second World War"

by John B.Haseman.........try Asia books

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why only england and not the rest of the UK???

[wilko]

[Thailand was part of axis power in WW2 and declared war on US, UK and other allied powers immediately after pearl harbor, but revoked the war declaration and declared peace immediately after Japanese defeat on August 15th, 1945.

Victory in war with Burma?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not strickly True

On the day that that the Philbul government declared war on the United States and England Seni publically announced that the true sypathies of the Thai people were with the ALLIES not Phibul.

He further declared that the Thai Embassy in Washington was Independent of the Government in Bangers.

When he....M.R.Seni arrived at the U.S state Dept. for a meeting with Sec.of State Cordell Hull to deliver a copy of the Thai Declaration of War he tapped his pocket and said to Hull "I will hang on to this cause I dont think it represents the will of the Thai people and with a bit of help from you lot ...I intend to prove it."

Thus Thailands Declaration of War against the United States was NEVER given and in effect NEVER happened..... .......unlike England.

Pridi Panomyong and M.R.Seni Pramoj viewed the Thai Resistance Movement "Seri Thai-Free Thailand"as a means for achieving post war political goals (and could suggest favours..wont of course) however with the help of overseas Thai volunteers and with assistance and manpower from both the OSS and SOE the outcome is as we can now suggest ... history ....all jolly good stuff.

Suggest

"The Thai Resistance Movement during the Second World War"

by John B.Haseman.........try Asia books

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why only England and not the rest of the UK???

[sadman]

some of whom were former Japanese soldiers

Interesting post, jomama.

Same thing happened in Singapore, with captured Japanese soldiers being used as (unarmed) police, under the command of British officers. My great-uncle (now dead) was the Port Commandant there at the end of the war, and told me about that. He reckoned that their psyche was such that they would obey a strong, authoritarian command structure, which sorta rings true for that time.

[Nordlys]

When the war eneded Japanese soldiers poured into Thailand without any real organization to transport them south and had to make their way as best they could. There are legends about Japanese who stayed on, living in remote villages. I believe there is a Japanese cemetary of sorts near Mae Hong Son (on the route from Mae Sariang).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not a legend. Some of them still live in the village of Mae Sot (and other places, I believe). I just read an article on this in one of the Japanese free papers distributed among Japanese expats in Thailand. They are mostly survivors of the doomed Battle of Imphal in Burma. Repatriation was provided to these soldiers after the war but some of them refused to return to the country for having no hope for its war-stricken homeland and out of humiliation (for not having brought victory to the country they served). Believe some of them joined Karen National Union to fight in guerilla warfare in Burma for their independence movement.

According to the article I read, one of the ex-Japanese solider, Mr. Isamu Sakai (1916~ ), a son of Japanese Immigrants to Brazil (therefore technically a Brazilian citizen) was visiting Japan when the war broke out in Asia/Pacific. Unable to return to Brazil, he was conscripted to the Japanese army soon after pearl harbor. He was sent to Korea, Malay, Vietnam, Thailand and finally in Burma at the time of Japan's defeat. For whatever the reason it was for resisting to return, heard it wasn't until almost 40 years after the end of WW2 had he returned to visit his homeland Brazil (and Japan). He and his ex-comrade now lives in Mae Sot with Thai wife and children and considers Thailand as his adopted home. Also heard Thai villagers were so kind to the Japanese soldiers who barely made it back alive from the Burmese front (and many died in the villages), fed them and cared for them with unconditional dedication, many married the villagers and stayed on in Thailand. Those who repatriated to Japan return to the village every once in a while to meet the villagers who helped save their lives and repay the deed by helping the poor village build schools, etc.

Legend is one Japanese soldier remained in Burma to become a monk to console and mourn the Japanese war dead in Burma (there are some 190,000 Japanese casualty in Burma), which became a famous novel and later a movie in Japan. I don't know of any Japanese cemetery in the north (there are in Burma). Japanese ministry of health, labor and welfare has on numerous occasions sent its employees and groups of surviving families to search for the remains of the Japanese soldiers in Thailand (and Burma) to be brought back to Japan (most recently this year as I read in another free paper).

Edited August 8, 2005 by Nordlys

[jomama]

It may not be a cemetary, but a memorial of sorts. The headman of the village maintains it. I think I read (this was a number of years ago) that it used to be a Japanese barracks. Some artefacts, etc. inside. Sorry I can't remember the source.

Just for trivia: One of the Thai generals in charge of the Burma campaign was named Choonhaven. His son Chatchai was a lieutenant in the war; he became prominent in Thai politics, serving as Prime Minister at one time.

Many of the average Thai soldiers who served in Burma were standed after the war -- some walked all the way from Chiang Mai to Bangkok.

Also I read more than a decade ago that there was a Japanese barracks at a now-famous location in BKK -- Patpong.

[Girlfrombar]

It is time for all parties to forgive and forget.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

absofu.ckinglutely sir!

[Nordlys]

It may not be a cemetary, but a memorial of sorts. The headman of the village maintains it. I think I read (this was a number of years ago) that it used to be a Japanese barracks. Some artefacts, etc. inside. Sorry I can't remember the source.

I've also heard about memorials erected in the village somewhere in the north. I think I've seen the picture of it too but don't remember either where the source was.

Just for trivia: One of the Thai generals in charge of the Burma campaign was named Choonhaven. His son Chatchai was a lieutenant in the war; he became prominent in Thai politics, serving as Prime Minister at one time.

Interesting. My mother personally knows the son of Chatchai but I don't think she knew it. Believe he is a prominent politician too (a senator I believe). Last and the only time I saw him, he was wearing anti-war T-shirt (about 2 - 3 years ago when US was about to invade Iraq).

Also I read more than a decade ago that there was a Japanese barracks at a now-famous location in BKK -- Patpong.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seems they were everywhere. There was a barrack in Lumpini Park too and a big garrison in Thonburi Bangkok Noi railway station next to Siriraj Hospital (across from royal barge shed). You can still see bomb shelter from WW2 in Dusit zoo today and a damage from air raid in Wimanmek Palace which suggests to me there was Japaense military presence in that part of city during the war.

[fxm88]

Sawasdee is actually pronounced sawatdee.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And Swastika is actually pronounced Swatdika.