Koh Phangan

[Gatorade]

I often go to Koh Phangan, particularly to the beaches only accessible by boat.

However I see that in the Bangkok Post last Thursday there is an article announcing a major upgrade to the road network and that all the "major" points on the island will be interlinked by a network 73 Kms long.

The title of the article is "Full-Moon Destination gets better".

I live on Samui but I wonder if that view is shared by those who live on KP.

I really question whether the addition of more roads is going to improve the island infrastructure,the National Park, and preserve the Fauna and Flora which still exists.

I would hate to see KP going the same way as Samui. But maybe it's an inevitability.

I don't live there but perhaps those that do welcome this development.

Any views?

[sbk]

I don't welcome it, no.

[Birdman]

agreed, a road network will lead to a second Samui for sure and all will cater the same kind of customers.

Instead full moon parties there will be a 12.000++ full moon candle light dinner right on the beach with a 30 minutes classical full moon party show (gardener and room maids disguised as wild raver and hippies, fireballs juggling, cocktails shaking competition, Philippine band playing: clap one's hands plaese and give me an F......)

[angiud]

More than enough roads already.

I guess they want to cover the East side of the island (the most beautiful and wild), actually without a coastline road.

[PoorSucker]

agreed, a road network will lead to a second Samui for sure and all will cater the same kind of customers.

Instead full moon parties there will be a 12.000++ full moon candle light dinner right on the beach with a 30 minutes classical full moon party show (gardener and room maids disguised as wild raver and hippies, fireballs juggling, cocktails shaking competition, Philippine band playing: clap one's hands plaese and give me an F......)

[smokie36]

agreed, a road network will lead to a second Samui for sure and all will cater the same kind of customers.

Instead full moon parties there will be a 12.000++ full moon candle light dinner right on the beach with a 30 minutes classical full moon party show (gardener and room maids disguised as wild raver and hippies, fireballs juggling, cocktails shaking competition, Philippine band playing: clap one's hands plaese and give me an F......)

Yeah thanks Birdman. Great post.

[Gatorade]

More than enough roads already.

I guess they want to cover the East side of the island (the most beautiful and wild), actually without a coastline road.

Yes, started already. Went to Haad Yao East a few weeks ago and a road was going in. All seems such a shame.

[Birdman]

agreed, a road network will lead to a second Samui for sure and all will cater the same kind of customers.

Instead full moon parties there will be a 12.000++ full moon candle light dinner right on the beach with a 30 minutes classical full moon party show (gardener and room maids disguised as wild raver and hippies, fireballs juggling, cocktails shaking competition, Philippine band playing: clap one's hands plaese and give me an F......)

Yeah thanks Birdman. Great post.

...thanks??

I am a freak like you are, smokie, see ya in the Garden Of Eden

[Ave]

I was thinking of spending christmas in one of the quiet beaches there but I'm not so sure now..

[sbk]

More than enough roads already.

I guess they want to cover the East side of the island (the most beautiful and wild), actually without a coastline road.

Yes, started already. Went to Haad Yao East a few weeks ago and a road was going in. All seems such a shame.

My husband grew up on Haad Yao East, there was quite a community on that beach 30 or so years ago. But the schools were on the other side of the island and walking over the mountain was difficult in the rainy season so they moved to Ban Tai. I first went to the other side shortly after moving to Koh Phangan when the beaches were once again deserted and the only thing there was a horse someone had left there to roam and eat the grass. The horse was clearly taken care of so presumably the guy lived in the hills somewhere and came down to feed it and check on it. It felt like another world. We would visit regularly as his father owned land there. But when he sold it, we stopped going.

I went back about 8 years ago after some bungalows had been built and never bothered to go back again. That side of the island has seen development. Roads will accelerate the construction and I can't imagine that cutting a road through much of that mountainous area will do anything other than environmental damage causing landslides in the rainy season.

"Progress" is inevitable, I am afraid.

[Gatorade]

More than enough roads already.

I guess they want to cover the East side of the island (the most beautiful and wild), actually without a coastline road.

Yes, started already. Went to Haad Yao East a few weeks ago and a road was going in. All seems such a shame.

My husband grew up on Haad Yao East, there was quite a community on that beach 30 or so years ago. But the schools were on the other side of the island and walking over the mountain was difficult in the rainy season so they moved to Ban Tai. I first went to the other side shortly after moving to Koh Phangan when the beaches were once again deserted and the only thing there was a horse someone had left there to roam and eat the grass. The horse was clearly taken care of so presumably the guy lived in the hills somewhere and came down to feed it and check on it. It felt like another world. We would visit regularly as his father owned land there. But when he sold it, we stopped going.

I went back about 8 years ago after some bungalows had been built and never bothered to go back again. That side of the island has seen development. Roads will accelerate the construction and I can't imagine that cutting a road through much of that mountainous area will do anything other than environmental damage causing landslides in the rainy season.

"Progress" is inevitable, I am afraid.

I agree with you. The road was not sealed so it is inevitable that it will slide down the slope(if it hasn't already).

There is still a horse there though!

Interesting that there was a small community there. I have often wondered what the building remains once were.

[crusty]

More than enough roads already.

I guess they want to cover the East side of the island (the most beautiful and wild), actually without a coastline road.

Yes, started already. Went to Haad Yao East a few weeks ago and a road was going in. All seems such a shame.

My husband grew up on Haad Yao East, there was quite a community on that beach 30 or so years ago. But the schools were on the other side of the island and walking over the mountain was difficult in the rainy season so they moved to Ban Tai. I first went to the other side shortly after moving to Koh Phangan when the beaches were once again deserted and the only thing there was a horse someone had left there to roam and eat the grass. The horse was clearly taken care of so presumably the guy lived in the hills somewhere and came down to feed it and check on it. It felt like another world. We would visit regularly as his father owned land there. But when he sold it, we stopped going.

I went back about 8 years ago after some bungalows had been built and never bothered to go back again. That side of the island has seen development. Roads will accelerate the construction and I can't imagine that cutting a road through much of that mountainous area will do anything other than environmental damage causing landslides in the rainy season.

"Progress" is inevitable, I am afraid.

There was already a sizeable school at Thong Nai Pan Noi in 1982 when we sailed in. The friendly locals guided us on a walking track West via the temple and the school and then on to the waterfall where all the school kids were splashing around after school each day. At the time was very impressed that Thailand had schools in such remote corners of the country and was a major factor for us to stay longer and see more of Thailand. Yes there were no roads then and like Chaweng, all commerce and transport was done by longtail boats.

[sbk]

My husband is over 40 crusty, by 1982 he was in high school in Koh Samui

He grew up on an island with no cars, no electric, few schools, no hospital, no doctor, no banks and a barter economy. So yes, the locals liked it when progress came to the island in the form of a hospital, banks, electricity, schools. But other changes are not so welcome and not all progress is beneficial.

[Tracer Round]

Just to be clear, are we talking about surfacing the existing dirt roads or adding completely new roads? It seems that there are already roads to go wherever you want (a road always is built to lead to something), so are you complaining about simply making the road safer and easier to drive on? What is the downside of a better road?

Since Samui's roadways are in such poor condition, in the main, it seem strange to hear people bemoaning the exact thing that we want -- better roads.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Tracer Round

[sbk]

There is no ring road on Koh Phangan and as far as I am aware any roads built to that side of the island are going through National Park. The only government roads existing on that side of the island that I am aware of is the one that runs to Thong Nai Pan.

[Birdman]

Just to be clear, are we talking about surfacing the existing dirt roads or adding completely new roads? It seems that there are already roads to go wherever you want (a road always is built to lead to something), so are you complaining about simply making the road safer and easier to drive on? What is the downside of a better road?

Since Samui's roadways are in such poor condition, in the main, it seem strange to hear people bemoaning the exact thing that we want -- better roads.

That post certainly disqualify the writer of understanding the uniqueness, beauty and natural power of places better not to be reached by the masses.

[Tracer Round]

Just to be clear, are we talking about surfacing the existing dirt roads or adding completely new roads? It seems that there are already roads to go wherever you want (a road always is built to lead to something), so are you complaining about simply making the road safer and easier to drive on? What is the downside of a better road?

Since Samui's roadways are in such poor condition, in the main, it seem strange to hear people bemoaning the exact thing that we want -- better roads.

That post certainly disqualify the writer of understanding the uniqueness, beauty and natural power of places better not to be reached by the masses.

Your comment qualifies you for a class in remedial reading comprehension.

If the "problem" in KP is that they want to make the roads surfaced, wide and safe, then this is just what we in Samui long for, not bitch about. The last time I was in KP, the road to Tong Nai Pan Yai was being done. But let's be clear -- a road already exists. Sure, it's sometimes like the surface of the moon (or used to be before they graded it and whatnot), but TNPY has for years been accessible by vehicles. Creating a better and safer way to get to an already established destination can't be some horrible destruction of uniqueness, beauty and nature. If 7-Eleven corporation wanted to put a store out there, they can (and could have long ago). Maybe they will when the nice road makes it possible to have an uninterrupted supply chain. I think every tourist would agree that could only be a good thing given the obscene prices for various and sundries in KP beach areas -- often double the retail prices in already expensive Samui.

How many tourists (and foreign residents) have been injured or killed driving on the poorly maintained roads/tracks? An improvement in the road surface and hopefully illumination will certainly help keep the accident rate down.

Now, if you are talking about building roads to nowhere or for no apparent purpose, I have to ask you who would build a road for its sake alone? Or is it any development you are against? I enjoy nature as much as the next lotus eater, (take a look at the travesty going on at Namuang waterfall -- turning the lower part of the falls into concrete swimming pools, with drinks bars and men making you pay to use the public road to the falls -- all illegal according to the forest department chief) but also appreciate that sustainable development is as alien here as a Thai using the word "please."

So back to my question: is the situation making completely new roads in KP or just resurfacing the existing ones?

[Gatorade]

Just to be clear, are we talking about surfacing the existing dirt roads or adding completely new roads? It seems that there are already roads to go wherever you want (a road always is built to lead to something), so are you complaining about simply making the road safer and easier to drive on? What is the downside of a better road?

Since Samui's roadways are in such poor condition, in the main, it seem strange to hear people bemoaning the exact thing that we want -- better roads.

That post certainly disqualify the writer of understanding the uniqueness, beauty and natural power of places better not to be reached by the masses.

Your comment qualifies you for a class in remedial reading comprehension.

If the "problem" in KP is that they want to make the roads surfaced, wide and safe, then this is just what we in Samui long for, not bitch about. The last time I was in KP, the road to Tong Nai Pan Yai was being done. But let's be clear -- a road already exists. Sure, it's sometimes like the surface of the moon (or used to be before they graded it and whatnot), but TNPY has for years been accessible by vehicles. Creating a better and safer way to get to an already established destination can't be some horrible destruction of uniqueness, beauty and nature. If 7-Eleven corporation wanted to put a store out there, they can (and could have long ago). Maybe they will when the nice road makes it possible to have an uninterrupted supply chain. I think every tourist would agree that could only be a good thing given the obscene prices for various and sundries in KP beach areas -- often double the retail prices in already expensive Samui.

How many tourists (and foreign residents) have been injured or killed driving on the poorly maintained roads/tracks? An improvement in the road surface and hopefully illumination will certainly help keep the accident rate down.

Now, if you are talking about building roads to nowhere or for no apparent purpose, I have to ask you who would build a road for its sake alone? Or is it any development you are against? I enjoy nature as much as the next lotus eater, (take a look at the travesty going on at Namuang waterfall -- turning the lower part of the falls into concrete swimming pools, with drinks bars and men making you pay to use the public road to the falls -- all illegal according to the forest department chief) but also appreciate that sustainable development is as alien here as a Thai using the word "please."

So back to my question: is the situation making completely new roads in KP or just resurfacing the existing ones?

To spell it out for you....Some roads are going in where there were none previously.i.e. NEW.

Of course there are tracks,made by humans and other animals but not roads. Phew!

There will be resurfacing of some existing ones. Hope that's clear enough. If not, suggest you go to the East side of KP on a boat and have a look for yourself rather than pontificating from afar.

[angiud]

Existing road in Koh Phangan don't need to be resurfaced, pretty done the last few years. Only half of the road Bantai-Tong Nai Pan have to be done. We have an '"highway" too (Thong Sala-Chaloklum) where Thai and farang love to speed and sometimes have bad accidents,

The project everybody talking and in some way already started is tho develop a completely new road connecting on the East coastline the locations of Haad Rin (more probably Bankai) to Haad Yuan-Tien, than Haad Yao East (sigh!), Than Sadet, Thong Nai Pan, and probably Bottle Beach to close the ring in Chaloklum.

All this to develop (and increase the value) of the huge and nearly unspoilt areas of the East coast of Phangan.

For sure a good touristic move, but one of the biggest asset of the island is the possibility to find your 'private retreat', your hideaway just few clicks from the main tourist spots, so, IMHO, this could became an owngoal more than an improvement .

Just finish the f.g road to Tong Nai Pan, get your f.g cut on the contract and leave the rest of the island alone!

[crusty]

Existing road in Koh Phangan don't need to be resurfaced, pretty done the last few years. Only half of the road Bantai-Tong Nai Pan have to be done. We have an '"highway" too (Thong Sala-Chaloklum) where Thai and farang love to speed and sometimes have bad accidents,

The project everybody talking and in some way already started is tho develop a completely new road connecting on the East coastline the locations of Haad Rin (more probably Bankai) to Haad Yuan-Tien, than Haad Yao East (sigh!), Than Sadet, Thong Nai Pan, and probably Bottle Beach to close the ring in Chaloklum.

All this to develop (and increase the value) of the huge and nearly unspoilt areas of the East coast of Phangan.

For sure a good touristic move, but one of the biggest asset of the island is the possibility to find your 'private retreat', your hideaway just few clicks from the main tourist spots, so, IMHO, this could became an owngoal more than an improvement .

Just finish the f.g road to Tong Nai Pan, get your f.g cut on the contract and leave the rest of the island alone!

Agreed ! Leave the East Coast as it is ! God forbid that it would ever look like Chaweng North to Chong Mon or the Conrad site.

[smokie36]

Existing road in Koh Phangan don't need to be resurfaced, pretty done the last few years. Only half of the road Bantai-Tong Nai Pan have to be done. We have an '"highway" too (Thong Sala-Chaloklum) where Thai and farang love to speed and sometimes have bad accidents,

The project everybody talking and in some way already started is tho develop a completely new road connecting on the East coastline the locations of Haad Rin (more probably Bankai) to Haad Yuan-Tien, than Haad Yao East (sigh!), Than Sadet, Thong Nai Pan, and probably Bottle Beach to close the ring in Chaloklum.

All this to develop (and increase the value) of the huge and nearly unspoilt areas of the East coast of Phangan.

For sure a good touristic move, but one of the biggest asset of the island is the possibility to find your 'private retreat', your hideaway just few clicks from the main tourist spots, so, IMHO, this could became an owngoal more than an improvement .

Just finish the f.g road to Tong Nai Pan, get your f.g cut on the contract and leave the rest of the island alone!

Agreed ! Leave the East Coast as it is ! God forbid that it would ever look like Chaweng North to Chong Mon or the Conrad site.

I agree. This new road sounds like an environmental disaster. Not to mention the chaos this will bring to the entire east coast the week of the FMP.

Greed no doubt will ve the winner here as in Thong Nai Pan Noi......once the magic has gone......!

[Gatorade]

I'm just wondering if there is something else we're missing in this " road development".

On the way Northbound by boat to Thong Nai Pan and somewhere abeam Than Sadet there is a massive mansion which has been built on the very top of the mountain and deep into the park area. It is huge, ugly and has 360 degree views.

It's obviously owned by someone with a great deal of influence (Conrad perhaps?).

God knows how it got to be built so quickly and quietly. Perhaps there was an outcry which didn't attract any media attention!

Anyway it would be rather fortuitous if suddenly there was a nice road running nearby with good connections.

Coincidence perhaps?

If this weather ever lets up I will take some pics next time I'm around there.

[crusty]

I'm just wondering if there is something else we're missing in this " road development".

On the way Northbound by boat to Thong Nai Pan and somewhere abeam Than Sadet there is a massive mansion which has been built on the very top of the mountain and deep into the park area. It is huge, ugly and has 360 degree views.

It's obviously owned by someone with a great deal of influence (Conrad perhaps?).

God knows how it got to be built so quickly and quietly. Perhaps there was an outcry which didn't attract any media attention!

Anyway it would be rather fortuitous if suddenly there was a nice road running nearby with good connections.

Coincidence perhaps?

If this weather ever lets up I will take some pics next time I'm around there.

C'mon, tell us who it is ! Surely not the same person who built the mansion with heli pad on the point overlooking Krabi ?

[Tracer Round]

My original question was:

Just to be clear, are we talking about surfacing the existing dirt roads or adding completely new roads?

It has taken this long for someone to actually answer, although the pontificating swipe was unwarranted.

I would guess that 99 out of a hundred people living on KP have never broken a trail across the wilds of the east coast of KP using a compass and machete or even followed footpaths to be one with nature. But for the vociferous few who have, a new road is an outrage. But for the majority, it is good for business and will help sagging property values. How many threads have we seen over the years absolutely lamenting the lack of tourists, the poor roads, etc which has been forcing many out of business or making life nearly hand to mouth?

So, considering that progress will progress, shouldn't people be discussing real-world ideas for making these new roads as environmentally friendly as possible, instead of just wishing them away?

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em...better to be on the inside and helping steer the future of KP than just protesting expansion that will occur regardless.

One more thing: if I could be the god for a second, I would disapprove of all road expansion on KP and concentrate on improving what already exists. But that's fantasy.

The false pontiff has thus spoken...

[sbk]

Honestly, if you haven't lived on Koh Phangan, and clearly you haven't or you would have grasped that my answer "there is no ring road on Koh Phangan" was a direct answer when considering the OP "However I see that in the Bangkok Post last Thursday there is an article announcing a major upgrade to the road network and that all the "major" points on the island will be interlinked by a network 73 Kms long" then perhaps it would be best if you learn a bit more about the island before making statements about it to those who do. Or, retreat to a Samui thread where you know what you are talking about.

[screamingeagle]

Honestly, if you haven't lived on Koh Phangan, and clearly you haven't or you would have grasped that my answer "there is no ring road on Koh Phangan" was a direct answer when considering the OP "However I see that in the Bangkok Post last Thursday there is an article announcing a major upgrade to the road network and that all the "major" points on the island will be interlinked by a network 73 Kms long" then perhaps it would be best if you learn a bit more about the island before making statements about it to those who do. Or, retreat to a Samui thread where you know what you are talking about.

We are in a bad mood today, aren't we?

[sbk]

Honestly, if you haven't lived on Koh Phangan, and clearly you haven't or you would have grasped that my answer "there is no ring road on Koh Phangan" was a direct answer when considering the OP "However I see that in the Bangkok Post last Thursday there is an article announcing a major upgrade to the road network and that all the "major" points on the island will be interlinked by a network 73 Kms long" then perhaps it would be best if you learn a bit more about the island before making statements about it to those who do. Or, retreat to a Samui thread where you know what you are talking about.

We are in a bad mood today, aren't we?

Just find pointless and unnecessarily aggressive posting by people who do not know what they are talking about trying to my patience. I am out the door to go buy some chocolate so perhaps that will raise my tolerance level.

[Samuian]

@Tracer Round.... "Property Value" is it all that it is about with you guys f.g. Money?

I have become a witness on what has been done in less then maybe 15 years to the once incredible beautiful and pristine island of Samui!

Go and "develop" the sh_t out of the Taklamakan or even better put your money and "business interests" on mars!

No one, except those involved in the onslaught has benefitted from the "development" of Samui, the Island's long gone beauty will never return!

The "benefits" are large grand Villas, Hummer Vans and other Luxuries, shopping malls, concrete, concrete and concrete, stainless steel, glass fronts, uncountable 7/11 and Family Mart "convenience shops", MK, Fudji and all the other Junk Food chains, fancy shops, with even fancier goodies, feeding excessive consumerism - no one needs all this - it all driven only by unseen greed and blown up ego's!

For what? Who needs all this?

I think that the price ALL have to pay is way too high and can't be measured in any existing currency, by "property or shareholder value"!

"Hand off the east coast of KPG"!

Where are the "no drilling for Oil!" nature lovers?

Edited November 16, 2010 by Samuian

[angiud]

You know, a panoramic road, respecting all the environmental standards (western), not too much invasive, with a very low environmental impact and with strict rules about the the size and the quantity of buildings allowed or not, could be a not so bad idea, but with the local greed, the complete lack of rules and of a real environmental awareness, I thing is better to hope this project will never start.

[Samuian]

You know, a panoramic road, respecting all the environmental standards (western), not too much invasive, with a very low environmental impact and with strict rules about the the size and the quantity of buildings allowed or not, could be a not so bad idea, but with the local greed, the complete lack of rules and of a real environmental awareness, I thing is better to hope this project will never start.

It's a fairy tale that it's "the local greed" and if so, if this is a known fact, why support a blink of an idea like this?!

How many, who could afford, left for the main land or KPG?

And it's a fact that the first "developer" and the first "real estate agent" here on Samui weren't locals, nor Thai!

Edited November 16, 2010 by Samuian