Viktor Bout's Extradition Is A Big Relief For Thai Authorities

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Bout's extradition is a big relief for local authorities

By The Nation

Thailand should learn from this experience and be prepared for any future incidents of a similar nature

After two and half years of legal and diplomatic wrangling, the extradition of alleged Russian arms trafficker Viktor Bout to the United States was carried out without fanfare on Tuesday. His extradition also capped years of uncertainty regarding Thailand's justice system and relations with the two superpowers, the US and Russia.

The Thai Cabinet gave the green light on Tuesday to send Bout to the US under the 2008 US-Thai extradition treaty, which gives the executive branch the power to implement the appeal court decision made back in August. It was the right decision, despite some delays and accusations that the Thai judicial system has been interfered with.

Russia has tried every possible avenue to ensure the former Soviet air force officer would not be sent to the US, because of his field experience and military knowledge. Throughout his trial and detention in Bangkok, Moscow has impressed upon the Thai authorities the importance of Bout and his return to his native country. Meanwhile, the US has been equally relentless in pressuring Thailand for his extradition.

Washington adopted a cool attitude toward Thailand after the Thai court, in August 2009, refused the US's request for Bout's extradition on terrorism-related charges. However, when the appeal court reversed the decision in August this year, the US tried to get the extradition expedited, without pondering much on the Thai context in relation to the Russian demands. The extradition was thus delayed further.

So, for the local authorities, it was a huge relief seeing Bout leaving Thai soil this week. The longer he remained in Thailand, the authorities feared the greater the chance of some untoward incident occurring. Just witness the Thai security forces in full combat gear and wearing masks during the extradition procedure. Fortunately, nothing happened to upset the due process.

To a certain extent, some credit should be given to the Thai government, which has been caught in this Catch 22 situation. But in the end, all parties concerned have to accept the Thai court's decision. Now that Bout has been handed over to the US authorities, Russia has to pursue the case through the American justice system. The cordial relations the two superpowers have enjoyed lately should facilitate this, and will help mitigate any ill-feeling toward Thailand on the part of any aggrieved party.

It is imperative the Foreign Ministry explains clearly to the US and Russia, as well as the wider diplomatic community here, about how the issue has evolved and how the court eventually came to its decision. Often, a lack of understanding of the Thai court system has led to widespread allegations regarding non-professionalism. Obviously, Russia fervently believes the US has influenced the Thai court's decision. But that is not the case, otherwise Thailand would have caved in to its demands long ago.

Thailand must learn from the handling of this case. In an age of global communications that allow all legal and illegal activities including international crimes, to be connected, similar incidents are bound to occur. Increasingly, many criminal organisations have taken advantage of Thailand's central location as a base for their activities in other parts of the world. It is hoped that if something similar occurs again, the Thai authorities will be able to explain their actions in a more timely and efficient manner.

-- The Nation 2010-11-18

[whybother]

If the Russians are unhappy about the Thai decision, maybe they should arrest Thaksin and extradite him to the US as retaliation.

(of course, there need to be some charges made, but that's besides the point. )

[gorillagrower]

We consider the illegal entrapment of Viktor Bout by US police on Thai soil and Thailand’s cooperation in his arrest for no crime committed in Thailand or the US to be one of Thai govt’s most shameful foreign incidents in decades.

In the course of a single week, we see Aung San Suu Kyi, Burma’s ‘heroine of democracy’, legally “freed” without any help or even lip-service from Thailand and Viktor Bout illegally shanghaied with the cooperation of Thai govt, making a mockery of any pretence to ‘democracy’.

Whatever Viktor Bout’s reputation or his guilt or innocence, Thai courts broke Thai law by admitting his case to court from the outset following his illegal arrest.

Not content with Bout’s illegal arrest based on a self-interested police informant, Thai govt tried to blame him for the arrival of a North Korean arms plane.

Furthermore, when the Criminal Court ruled against his extradition because the Colombian FARC insurgents are not a terrorist organisation in Thailand, Viktor Bout should have been immediately released and repatriated.

Instead, as on many previous occasions, Thailand chose to bend over to the USA with no Vaseline. After all, the US is a far bigger trading and military partner than Russia.

Thailand buried the rule of law on the Bout case. And all because the US won’t tolerate any competition as the world’s biggest arms merchant. The real Lord of War, the genuine Merchant of Death, is America.

The last arms dealer, extradited to the US from Spain, got 30 years. We have no doubt Viktor will get the same, with plumped-up evidence courtesy of Thai police.

The US has had a plane sitting at Don Muang since Bout’s appeal. Today it took only hours after Cabinet’s decision to put him on that plane. The PM may be trying to pass this decision off on Cabinet but we think the PM must take full responsibility for what happens to Bout in the US

http://facthai.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/factorial-viktor-bout-has-human-rights-too/

[rreddin]

If the Russians are unhappy about the Thai decision, maybe they should arrest Thaksin and extradite him to the US as retaliation.

(of course, there need to be some charges made, but that's besides the point. )

I am sure there will some retaliation against Thailand from interests aligned with Mr Bout. They will be of the kind gas masks and combat gear will be useless to defend against. At least when Mr Bout was in Thailand, the authorities knew what was causing their head ache.

[Lancelot]

I am sure there will some retaliation against Thailand from interests aligned with Mr Bout.

Yes. More Russian tourists flocking to Pattaya

[whybother]

We consider the illegal entrapment of Viktor Bout by US police on Thai soil and Thailand's cooperation in his arrest for no crime committed in Thailand or the US to be one of Thai govt's most shameful foreign incidents in decades.

In the course of a single week, we see Aung San Suu Kyi, Burma's 'heroine of democracy', legally "freed" without any help or even lip-service from Thailand and Viktor Bout illegally shanghaied with the cooperation of Thai govt, making a mockery of any pretence to 'democracy'.

Whatever Viktor Bout's reputation or his guilt or innocence, Thai courts broke Thai law by admitting his case to court from the outset following his illegal arrest.

Not content with Bout's illegal arrest based on a self-interested police informant, Thai govt tried to blame him for the arrival of a North Korean arms plane.

Furthermore, when the Criminal Court ruled against his extradition because the Colombian FARC insurgents are not a terrorist organisation in Thailand, Viktor Bout should have been immediately released and repatriated.

Instead, as on many previous occasions, Thailand chose to bend over to the USA with no Vaseline. After all, the US is a far bigger trading and military partner than Russia.

Thailand buried the rule of law on the Bout case. And all because the US won't tolerate any competition as the world's biggest arms merchant. The real Lord of War, the genuine Merchant of Death, is America.

The last arms dealer, extradited to the US from Spain, got 30 years. We have no doubt Viktor will get the same, with plumped-up evidence courtesy of Thai police.

The US has had a plane sitting at Don Muang since Bout's appeal. Today it took only hours after Cabinet's decision to put him on that plane. The PM may be trying to pass this decision off on Cabinet but we think the PM must take full responsibility for what happens to Bout in the US

http://facthai.wordp...man-rights-too/

Bout was arrested legally in Thailand based on him breaking US law (and probably Thai law, and international law). Thailand has an extradition treaty with the USA which allows an arrest warrant to be issued if requested by US authorities. An arrest warrant won't be issued just because it's requested, but Thai law allows it to be issued.

A court case for extradition to the US was then carried out. The court ruled against his extradition, but the result was appealed, and the appeal was successful.

Bout was extradited legally. Case closed.

You can argue against the US law, but you can't argue against the arrest and extradition of Bout.

Bout went freely to meetings with DEA agents posing as FARC, not just in Thailand, but in other countries too. He was given an opportunity to sell arms to FARC and he grabbed that opportunity. He wasn't set up. "Set up" implies that he was tricked into doing something illegal. He would have sold the arms to FARC if they were real FARC members. It's just that in this case they were really DEA agents.

Edited November 18, 2010 by whybother

[Brewsta]

WB,

Your proposal is feasible, considering the times that we live in.......Madness everywhere where Self Interest is the undisputed global pandemic, IMHO naturally.

Stay Smiling and ALWAYS have an exit strategy.

Brewsta

If the Russians are unhappy about the Thai decision, maybe they should arrest Thaksin and extradite him to the US as retaliation.

(of course, there need to be some charges made, but that's besides the point. )

[webfact]

PM refuses to answer any questions on Viktor Bout

BANGKOK, 18 November 2010 (NNT) - Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva refused to answer questions pertaining to Russia’s criticism of Thailand over the extradition of Viktor Bout to the United States. Meanwhile, Democrat Secretary-General Suthep Thuagsuban said that the extradition was in accordance with the law.

Mr Suthep affirmed that the Bout extradition was strictly in accordance with the law, and that the government had already explained the issue to the US as well as Russia.

Prime Miniter Abhisit Vejjajiva, meanwhile, refused to answer questions posed by the media relative to the extradition of the accused arms smuggler.

Deputy Director of the Department of Corrections, Surin Satheanramart, said the Bout extradition procedures are strictly legal and in line with international law governing extraditions. He also did not believe that Bout’s lawyer could take any legal action against those involved in the case, given the Department of Corrections was simply carrying out the Appeal Court’s order that Bout be extradited within three months

-- NNT 2010-11-18

[crazyawm]

Whatever Viktor Bout's reputation or his guilt or innocence, Thai courts broke Thai law by admitting his case to court from the outset following his illegal arrest.

Instead, as on many previous occasions, Thailand chose to bend over to the USA with no Vaseline.

+ 100500

Edited November 18, 2010 by crazyawm

[Ulysses G.]

... considering the times that we live in.......Madness everywhere where Self Interest is the undisputed global pandemic,

Things were so much better in the olden days. Malaria, leprosy, dictatorships, slavery, torture and whatnot.

[Arkady]

It is illegal under US law to conspire to murder US citizens and provide material resources to terrorist organizations whether the offence is committed in the US or elsewhere. Thai law doesn't prohibit this type of entrapment of criminals engaged in serious crimes, such as terrorism and narcotics (it is often the only way to catch such criminals), and Thailand's extradition treaty with the US doesn't exclude this type of charge. Therefore the extradition was legal under Thai law. The article presented by FACT here http://facthai.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/factorial-viktor-bout-has-human-rights-too/#respond presents no legal arguments or references to support its view and is superficial and facile to a degree.

Thailand on this occasion has good a good job in upholding the integrity of the judicial branch and resisting international terrorism and corruption. Mr Bout will have a fair trial and good luck to him in proving that he didn't try to provide weapons to FARC. His arms trafficking activities could not have taken place to the degree they did without the complicity of senior Russian establishment figures. No wonder they are furious.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Arkady

[el jefe]

We consider the illegal entrapment of Viktor Bout by US police on Thai soil and Thailand’s cooperation in his arrest for no crime committed in Thailand or the US to be one of Thai govt’s most shameful foreign incidents in decades.

In the course of a single week, we see Aung San Suu Kyi, Burma’s ‘heroine of democracy’, legally “freed” without any help or even lip-service from Thailand and Viktor Bout illegally shanghaied with the cooperation of Thai govt, making a mockery of any pretence to ‘democracy’.

Whatever Viktor Bout’s reputation or his guilt or innocence, Thai courts broke Thai law by admitting his case to court from the outset following his illegal arrest.

Not content with Bout’s illegal arrest based on a self-interested police informant, Thai govt tried to blame him for the arrival of a North Korean arms plane.

Furthermore, when the Criminal Court ruled against his extradition because the Colombian FARC insurgents are not a terrorist organisation in Thailand, Viktor Bout should have been immediately released and repatriated.

Instead, as on many previous occasions, Thailand chose to bend over to the USA with no Vaseline. After all, the US is a far bigger trading and military partner than Russia.

Thailand buried the rule of law on the Bout case. And all because the US won’t tolerate any competition as the world’s biggest arms merchant. The real Lord of War, the genuine Merchant of Death, is America.

The last arms dealer, extradited to the US from Spain, got 30 years. We have no doubt Viktor will get the same, with plumped-up evidence courtesy of Thai police.

The US has had a plane sitting at Don Muang since Bout’s appeal. Today it took only hours after Cabinet’s decision to put him on that plane. The PM may be trying to pass this decision off on Cabinet but we think the PM must take full responsibility for what happens to Bout in the US

http://facthai.wordpress.com/2010/11/17/factorial-viktor-bout-has-human-rights-too/

Is this conclusion based on your extensive knowledge of both Thai and American law, or just your anti-American sentiment?

[LaoPo]

We consider the illegal entrapment of Viktor Bout by US police on Thai soil and Thailand's cooperation in his arrest for no crime committed in Thailand or the US to be one of Thai govt's most shameful foreign incidents in decades.

In the course of a single week, we see Aung San Suu Kyi, Burma's 'heroine of democracy', legally "freed" without any help or even lip-service from Thailand and Viktor Bout illegally shanghaied with the cooperation of Thai govt, making a mockery of any pretence to 'democracy'.

Whatever Viktor Bout's reputation or his guilt or innocence, Thai courts broke Thai law by admitting his case to court from the outset following his illegal arrest.

Not content with Bout's illegal arrest based on a self-interested police informant, Thai govt tried to blame him for the arrival of a North Korean arms plane.

Furthermore, when the Criminal Court ruled against his extradition because the Colombian FARC insurgents are not a terrorist organisation in Thailand, Viktor Bout should have been immediately released and repatriated.

Instead, as on many previous occasions, Thailand chose to bend over to the USA with no Vaseline. After all, the US is a far bigger trading and military partner than Russia.

Thailand buried the rule of law on the Bout case. And all because the US won't tolerate any competition as the world's biggest arms merchant. The real Lord of War, the genuine Merchant of Death, is America.

The last arms dealer, extradited to the US from Spain, got 30 years. We have no doubt Viktor will get the same, with plumped-up evidence courtesy of Thai police.

The US has had a plane sitting at Don Muang since Bout's appeal. Today it took only hours after Cabinet's decision to put him on that plane. The PM may be trying to pass this decision off on Cabinet but we think the PM must take full responsibility for what happens to Bout in the US

http://facthai.wordp...man-rights-too/

Is this conclusion based on your extensive knowledge of both Thai and American law, or just your anti-American sentiment?

The poster quoted from a link; didn't you see that?

Sigh...every time someone post something, disagreeing with a certain action from America he/she is immediately qualified as anti-American...

That makes most of the members here anti-Thailand as well, reading all those complaints about Thailand, bashing it's government, past and present, Katoeys, road accidents, pricing, dirty beaches and streets............I could go on.

How silly.

LaoPo

Edited November 18, 2010 by LaoPo

[SanSaiExPat]

We consider the illegal entrapment of Viktor Bout by US police on Thai soil and Thailand's cooperation in his arrest for no crime committed in Thailand or the US to be one of Thai govt's most shameful foreign incidents in decades.

In the course of a single week, we see Aung San Suu Kyi, Burma's 'heroine of democracy', legally "freed" without any help or even lip-service from Thailand and Viktor Bout illegally shanghaied with the cooperation of Thai govt, making a mockery of any pretence to 'democracy'.

Whatever Viktor Bout's reputation or his guilt or innocence, Thai courts broke Thai law by admitting his case to court from the outset following his illegal arrest.

Not content with Bout's illegal arrest based on a self-interested police informant, Thai govt tried to blame him for the arrival of a North Korean arms plane.

Furthermore, when the Criminal Court ruled against his extradition because the Colombian FARC insurgents are not a terrorist organisation in Thailand, Viktor Bout should have been immediately released and repatriated.

Instead, as on many previous occasions, Thailand chose to bend over to the USA with no Vaseline. After all, the US is a far bigger trading and military partner than Russia.

Thailand buried the rule of law on the Bout case. And all because the US won't tolerate any competition as the world's biggest arms merchant. The real Lord of War, the genuine Merchant of Death, is America.

The last arms dealer, extradited to the US from Spain, got 30 years. We have no doubt Viktor will get the same, with plumped-up evidence courtesy of Thai police.

The US has had a plane sitting at Don Muang since Bout's appeal. Today it took only hours after Cabinet's decision to put him on that plane. The PM may be trying to pass this decision off on Cabinet but we think the PM must take full responsibility for what happens to Bout in the US

http://facthai.wordp...man-rights-too/

Bout was arrested legally in Thailand based on him breaking US law (and probably Thai law, and international law). Thailand has an extradition treaty with the USA which allows an arrest warrant to be issued if requested by US authorities. An arrest warrant won't be issued just because it's requested, but Thai law allows it to be issued.

A court case for extradition to the US was then carried out. The court ruled against his extradition, but the result was appealed, and the appeal was successful.

Bout was extradited legally. Case closed.

You can argue against the US law, but you can't argue against the arrest and extradition of Bout.

Bout went freely to meetings with DEA agents posing as FARC, not just in Thailand, but in other countries too. He was given an opportunity to sell arms to FARC and he grabbed that opportunity. He wasn't set up. "Set up" implies that he was tricked into doing something illegal. He would have sold the arms to FARC if they were real FARC members. It's just that in this case they were really DEA agents.

Bravo! I couldn't have said it better myself. What a pleasant surprise to see such a cogent, succinct response to Marxist communist anti USA propaganda that frequently fills these pages. Well Done!

[mca]

It is illegal under US law to conspire to murder US citizens and provide material resources to terrorist organizations whether the offence is committed in the US or elsewhere.

Only if they're terrorist organisations that the American government at the time consider on their side.

[Buchholz]

We consider the illegal entrapment of Viktor Bout by US police on Thai soil and Thailand's cooperation in his arrest for no crime committed in Thailand or the US to be one of Thai govt's most shameful foreign incidents in decades.

Is this conclusion based on your extensive knowledge of both Thai and American law, or just your anti-American sentiment?

The poster quoted from a link; didn't you see that?

I have to side a bit with el jefe on this as my first thought on reading the post was "who's this guy think he is using the term 'we' in the first sentence. Who is he speaking for?"

and while I did get from the end of it that it was a quote of a source via the link provided, I can easily see how someone might misinterpret his post.

To avoid future confusion and clearly show that it is not a personal post, it's always good when quoting a news source or a blog (as in this case) to put the headline at the very top as it originally appears, eg.

FACTorial: Viktor Bout has human rights, too

We consider the illegal entrapment of Viktor Bout by US police on Thai soil and Thailand’s cooperation in his arrest for no crime committed in Thailand or the US to be one of Thai govt’s most shameful foreign incidents in decades.

=================

It also wouldn't hurt to clearly designate the source at the bottom before the link, eg.

FACT – Freedom Against Censorship Thailand

(just trying to be helpful for the better understanding by all)

.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Buchholz

[bangkokrick]

American law is just that, so what makes Americans think that the laws apply to the rest of the world. We have our own laws that were developed well before 'the new kid on the block' was even thought of. Sickening to think that you beieve you have the right to impose your views and laws on the rest of the world, Nobody is listening.

Rick

[Ulysses G.]

Yeah, right. Protect illegal arms dealers.

[bangkokrick]

Yeah, right. Protect illegal arms dealers.

Yea right under American law he is innocent until proven guilty. Correct me if I am wrong.

Rick

[animatic]

It is illegal under US law to conspire to murder US citizens and provide material resources to terrorist organizations whether the offence is committed in the US or elsewhere.

Only if they're terrorist organisations that the American government at the time consider on their side.

You made no sense here....

[VBF]

... considering the times that we live in.......Madness everywhere where Self Interest is the undisputed global pandemic,

Things were so much better in the olden days. Malaria, leprosy, dictatorships, slavery, torture and whatnot.

Well we've nearly eradicated Malaria and leprosy so only got to get rid of dictatorships, slavery, torture and whatnot now.

Personally, I like a bit of whatnot though!

[mca]

It is illegal under US law to conspire to murder US citizens and provide material resources to terrorist organizations whether the offence is committed in the US or elsewhere.

Only if they're terrorist organisations that the American government at the time consider on their side.

You made no sense here....

What I meant was the American government in the past haven't been backwards in coming forwards in supporting and supplying terrorist organisations if it suits their purpose. Which means if the post by Arkady is correct then there should be quite a few ex-Washington "suits" in the dock alongside Victor.

Sorry for the confusion.

[jdinasia]

American law is just that, so what makes Americans think that the laws apply to the rest of the world. We have our own laws that were developed well before 'the new kid on the block' was even thought of. Sickening to think that you beieve you have the right to impose your views and laws on the rest of the world, Nobody is listening.

Rick

If nobody was listening then you wouldn't be on here whining about people listening

The Thai authorities arrested Bout. The Thai authorities extradited Bout. The story is over for now

[bangkokrick]

American law is just that, so what makes Americans think that the laws apply to the rest of the world. We have our own laws that were developed well before 'the new kid on the block' was even thought of. Sickening to think that you beieve you have the right to impose your views and laws on the rest of the world, Nobody is listening.

Rick

If nobody was listening then you wouldn't be on here whining about people listening

The Thai authorities arrested Bout. The Thai authorities extradited Bout. The story is over for now

Well you are obviously listening, Unlike the rest of the world. Whining is not a word in my vocabulary. The US try to dominate, but sadly fail as they have always done.

[jdinasia]

American law is just that, so what makes Americans think that the laws apply to the rest of the world. We have our own laws that were developed well before 'the new kid on the block' was even thought of. Sickening to think that you beieve you have the right to impose your views and laws on the rest of the world, Nobody is listening.

Rick

If nobody was listening then you wouldn't be on here whining about people listening

The Thai authorities arrested Bout. The Thai authorities extradited Bout. The story is over for now

Well you are obviously listening, Unlike the rest of the world. Whining is not a word in my vocabulary. The US try to dominate, but sadly fail as they have always done.

You seem to have missed the point. Thailand arrested and extradited Bout. While I do not agree with your premise that the US is imposing its views and laws on the rest of the world. The very fact that they arrested and extradited Bout would suggest that if your premise was noteworthy at all, it is noteworthy because it is clearly 100% wrong in the case cited in this thread.

[animatic]

"haven't been backwards in coming forwards"

Love this malapropism.

As opposed to TVF where

so many who appear backwards, seem to come forward.

[whybother]

Yeah, right. Protect illegal arms dealers.

Yea right under American law he is innocent until proven guilty. Correct me if I am wrong.

Rick

The thing is, at this stage he is innocent. He has been extradited to the US to find out if he is guilty or not.

Edited November 18, 2010 by whybother

[LaoPo]

You seem to have missed the point. Thailand arrested and extradited Bout.

yes that's correct...some BKK cops saw him walking in BKK and one of them recognized Bout immediately and said to his fellow BIB..."hey...isn't that the criminal chap Bout from Russia...?, wanted in the US...let's arrest him and extradite him to the US; our Boss will be proud of us....."

The next story...........................on the other side of the world....in the BIG APPLE:

yes that's correct...some NY cops saw criminal X from Russia walking in NY and one of them recognized criminal X immediately and said to his fellow BIB (Black this time)...hey...isn't that the Criminal chap X... from Russia ?, wanted in Thailand....let's arrest him and extradite him to Thailand; our Boss will be proud of us....".

What a world...

LaoPo

Edited November 18, 2010 by LaoPo

[jdinasia]

Are you that ill-informed LaoPo? the Royal Thai police working with US Federal agents nailed Bout. The US Federal agents, having no jurisdiction to arrest Bout in Thailand left that to the proper authorities. (namely the Royal Thai Police)

Would I be offended if they picked up Thaksin in NYC and extradited him to Thailand? No. It would have to be an arrest made by someone with the jurisdiction to do so though.

I remember some Thai embezzler being arrested and sent back to Thailand from Canada I think. The RCMP did a good job there

[LaoPo]

Are you that ill-informed LaoPo? the Royal Thai police working with US Federal agents nailed Bout. The US Federal agents, having no jurisdiction to arrest Bout in Thailand left that to the proper authorities. (namely the Royal Thai Police)

Would I be offended if they picked up Thaksin in NYC and extradited him to Thailand? No. It would have to be an arrest made by someone with the jurisdiction to do so though.

I remember some Thai embezzler being arrested and sent back to Thailand from Canada I think. The RCMP did a good job there

Of course I'm not ill-informed.

The examples you talk about are 2-way nations arrests; not alike the Bout arrest which was a 3-nations (involved) arrest.

That's the difference.

LaoPo