Consistency From Administrators

[Thomas_Merton]

I wonder if our administrators talk to each other.

Is there is any attempt on their side to find a consistent line for this forum?

Is only one of them capable of reasoned argument?

What do you think?

(below are extracts from ######’s posts to “Between Black and White” followed by Dr. Pat Pong’s complete contribution)

######:

Ok Guys.. Sorry just got here after 24 hours of not moderating. Still like it?

In fact the post saying it is topic du jour I agree with. Esp. after the deal with the Englishman.

Now in fairness, TM actually laid out in his first post, at least in my view, that he was devils advocating for a debate. Socal launched into a tirade of abuse which only served in my opinion to show he is a sheep short. Read the whole thing then open your mouth socal. ,makes you look at least red-necked in the worst case, somewhat twisted by needing the infliction of violence to show your "manhood".

I appreciate your note Kevin, and within the bounds of good sense, I will wade into it, and see where it goes.

Now.. do the moderators need wing clipping still?

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If you dislike an issue, don't read it. Simple. To say this site protects paeophiles is patent bullsh!t. It doesn't now, hasn't in the past and will not in the future as far as I am concerned. It will allow, however, debate on issues whch you may find confronting, distasteful or just plain baffling, which I believe will be most of them.

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Well at last. Rational discussion.

Agreements:

Merton - it took big balls of granite to set the scene.

*******************************

If line one isn't kill him, chop off his dick etc., the poster was flamed. Merton for example, started to ask people to look at the issue in the light of other parts of life in Thailand. All he got for it was accusations of "pervert" etc. I read the posts thoroughly and all I saw was someone raising issues which can be discussed in this forum, by adults in an adult way. Not someone saying "poor dear" so much as "what do you think". Unfortuantely, the answer frequently, when read between the lines so to speak, was a resounding "NOTHING, SIR".

Hope this clarifies my view.

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Dr. Pat Pong:

Merton are you an educated Daveyo ?

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Extremely so....perverted mind as well. That queue to thump him must be getting very long.

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am answering by closing a topic which I thought sick and the posters point indefensible. Pedophiles are sick. Leave it at that, and from the responses, that is the overwhelming views of posters. This is now closed

[meemiathai]

Perhaps someone was in a bad mood today and decides that he does not want to listen to that something no more.

Well, I cannot argue with that. It's their website.

Sorry about that.

[Guest IT Manager]

TM we do, often. We have tried to maintain a level of maturity which will keep the forum alive. On occasions, however, some members immaturity, in spite of their age, makes this hard.

Your post would have been a good place to start rational discussion on a subject which some find offensive, others see as controversial and yet others as challenging in the extreme.

Understand, that as a junior admin/whipping boy, it often gets to an explanation about views that may seem irksome. I find it intriguing that the subject is raised then hammered, then locked, but I understand it as well.

As I have quoted elsewhere in this forum, my supervisor during my studies pointed out that "the needs of the few must be weighed against the wants of the many", and this has been the case here.

IT

[Georgie-Porgie]

In the past 24 hours, a topic that I wanted to discuss has been deleted from the board altogether, and then "locked" out on another thread, after dr. Patpong got in, what he considers to be, one of his "witty" quips, so no one could comment on what I had written.

The topic is basically the same one as Mr. Merton is bringing up here, is this truly an open forum for discussion of different issues centered around living in Thailand, or the personal play-thing of one of the administrators?

If one agrees with "meemiathai" above, this is dr. Patpong's website, and he can do what he wants, but if one listens to what IT, another administrator has to say about this site:

QUOTE: For the record, posts are not arbitrarily deleted. The admins actually discuss deletion and other things before it's done and in fact it is quite rare.

Sometimes a warning may be issued but only after consultation...

...So to say it happens often is <deleted>.

IT

So, I guess that this is supposed to be a true forum, and not subject to the whims and tantrums of just one man.

Personally, I would not want to participate in a website just designed to keep dr. Patpong entertained by insulting people, sticking inane comments everywhere for no discernable reason and then deleting topics or posters or locking them out whenever he gets the itch.

So, I guess what I am asking is, what is this site, a forum for Expats and others to discuss issues centered around Thailand, or dr. Patpong's personal soapbox/Neverland, that he never seems to leave?

[Guest IT Manager]

Georgie what was the nature of what you wanted to discuss. I didn't see it but as I have said before and will likely continue to say, I rarely disgaree with Dr PatPong on substance, just quality. Some posts are trite, others are just trolls. PM me with basis and I will consider options.

I'm not a total bastard, but there is always Tuesday.

[Georgie-Porgie]

IT, from what I have seen from your posts, you are what an administrator is supposed to be. You mostly keep out of the discussions except to moderate. When you delete something or someone, you explain why in a rational, mature manner. I do not think that anyone could say the same about dr. Patpong.

My first post that the dr. deleted was just a silly comment on a post describing a recent visa trip to Mai Sai. The poster said that "everything was back to normal" and that there were no more signs forbidding multiple 30 day walkers. I commented that this was evidence to support ChiangMaiThai's contention that there is no big crackdown on 30 day walkers -as dr. Patpong has so often insisted.

This was his reply:

Georgie's childish contribution i deleted. What a %%%%%%%%%%%%brain ......................... next walk. Take the paupers with you.

Now. my post was silly, I admit that. I was really just trying to wind ChiangMaiThai up again, because he's done such a good job of making the dr. eat his own words, but there was absolutely no reason to delete it, other than the dr.'s own vanity. I didn't make a copy of it, or I would be happy to include it here.

Anyway, after that I made a comment on your quote on deletions that I mentioned before on this thread and then tried to start a new post about "Silly deletions" on the visa forum. The silly deletions post was silly-ly deleted by dr. Patpong and the other thread was frozen after one of dr. Patpongs attempts at insulting me.

Anyway, those are my complaints, and maybe they are no big deal, but if the dr. is doing this type of thing on a constant basis, and I think that he is, it certainly affects the reputation of your website.

I hope it's OK that I posted this here. I don't know how to "PM" you, or even what it is -private mail?- so this is easier.

[Guest IT Manager]

Georgie I have far more time than the Doc. Like I said I didn't see the post but I rarely find his decisions questionable. There is a reason for them, same as for me.

I try to take an active part in discussions of personal interest, the rest I just watch.

[Georgie-Porgie]

I would just like to see this post survive long enough for some comments on it.

[Guest IT Manager]

It will survive Georgie. Do what I do..take valium in small amounts.

Just wai phra before bed..you will be fine. Just relax.

[Thomas_Merton]

I hope it's OK that I posted this here. I don't know how to "PM" you, or even what it is -private mail?- so this is easier.

As Winston Churchill said:

"Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room.”

so I will ask Dr. Pat Pong, if he has a quick one-liner, or a reasoned argument as comment for the following quote from the Bangkok Post:

``[The prime minister] must consider what is real, and what is not. Read the papers, let them criticise, listen to them. If they do well by touching on the right subjects, thank them. If not, just tell them to soften their tone."

I will respectfully wait whatever time it takes the Doctor to reply, but will consider a lack of reply as a recognition by the Doctor of his error of judgement.

[thomasjojo]

another thing I just wonder about,;

When is it 'to late' to reply on a topic?

Seams that some people dont like postings in a 'old' topic. What is Old?

And by the way, what is a junior admin/whipping boy ?

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[The_Moog]

Topics should only stay open for a week.

By then anything original has already been said.

Besides, this is supposed to be an information source for expats in Thailand, concerning topics relevant to farangs living here, not some philosophical steakhouse for folk killing time till their next holiday.

Endless discussion of cannibals, Trink and riverside mansions are of course exceptions to this common sense approach.

[kwiz117]

I hope it's OK that I posted this here. I don't know how to "PM" you, or even what it is -private mail?- so this is easier.

As Winston Churchill said:

"Never hold discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room.”

so I will ask Dr. Pat Pong, if he has a quick one-liner, or a reasoned argument as comment for the following quote from the Bangkok Post:

``[The prime minister] must consider what is real, and what is not. Read the papers, let them criticise, listen to them. If they do well by touching on the right subjects, thank them. If not, just tell them to soften their tone."

I will respectfully wait whatever time it takes the Doctor to reply, but will consider a lack of reply as a recognition by the Doctor of his error of judgement.

Well said..

I am glad to read this thread as it still have survived for us to comment on.

Don't you mature admins realize that members are increasingly unhappy the way you guys are deleting and editing the replies.

As IT has said above, some here may be young and not mature up to you guys to discuss certain subjects.

Also these young guys might think that some of you mature guys are expressing ideas that is suited to bygone days or reluctant to change.

This is why we all are here. Isn't it?

Different Nationalities, Different religions, Different Professions, Different ages..live in Thailand

I myself really admire all the moderators and also the time you guys spend moderating this forum. It is not easy and every minute you guys spend here involve some opportunity cost. I think all of us understand it.

Also I understand that this website belongs to you and I am just spending my time here in Thailand with all of the other members here, in your free forum.

All I can not understand is, what is the justification behind deleting a post that is not falling to the taste of the Moderators? and asking us to write PM to get an explanation. It's a very rude way to reply to a member unless he has violated the Terms here in this forum.

Above answers from Moderators have made this more clear.

kwiz

[KevinN]

What I would like to see.

When a post is cleared,why can't you just delete the offending post and leave the header,that way we can see that an offending post was made and the text of the post cut out.

I notice a lot of my posts never make it to the thread,and I do not know if it just didn't make it or if in fact were deleted.

I do not know if it is my PC or if in fact there is an eraser going over the board,as sometimes it takes 5 minutes for my PC to do anything but come up with "CAN NOT FIND SERVER"...

[kwiz117]

Topics should only stay open for a week.

By then anything original has already been said.

Besides, this is supposed to be an information source for expats in Thailand, concerning topics relevant to farangs living here, not some philosophical steakhouse for folk killing time till their next holiday.

Endless discussion of cannibals, Trink and riverside mansions are of course exceptions to this common sense approach.

Agreed..If they had only sections for Thai Visa,Classifieds, Traveling..

In this case, they should not have allowed General Topics, Farang Pubs and night life and other General Topics.

Also it is very easy to Ban certain Topics from the start like subjects related to Politics, Sexual discussions, Thai Royal family etc.

Some of these topics have started by the forum Admins them-self and sometimes even you have participated.

Sorry, Based on above reasons, I do not agree with what you have said above.

But think it is good idea to keep a Topic Open for one Week to avoid derailing it. But then, this might create a duplicate opening of the same topic to express views.

[Thomas_Merton]

Given many of the points made in this thread expressing, at the least, uncertainty on the criteria and method used by one of the moderators:

Is it not time to demand a statement of purpose and intent from our moderators?

What laws, rules, regulations or moral principles guide your hands?

Are you real (one person?) people? Tell us about yourselves?

Maybe, when we know, we will better understand your apparent arbitrariness

[george]

We are working on a better presentation. Until then we have the Forum Guidelines

These Guidelines shall be more detailed and eventually merged with the Chat rules and the Netiquette

Hope that we can have this done this week, if my time allows.

Please be informed that we are all doing this as unpaid work, so we can't be online 24/7.

I am moving this topic to the Forum Support Desk.

Edit:

Fixed the URLs

Edited December 8, 2003 by george

[Guest IT Manager]

Thomas you amaze me.

You start a topic that a moron would know would cause flames. I supported you to the hilt because I feel reasoned discussion is important, almost paramount. But here you are.

My support was premised on the capacity of a measurable percentage of members to work through and respond to your posts which if one was to read between the lines you are expressing a sexual standpoint which I strongly oppose.

Now you call into question motives and views of admins all over. Too much altogether.

In my view, while I suspect your next trip to LoS will be the same as your last few, I look forward to not meeting you in CM. Stay in South Jomtien. Enjoy.

[Thomas_Merton]

In my view, while I suspect your next trip to LoS will be the same as your last few, I look forward to not meeting you in CM. Stay in South Jomtien. Enjoy.

Never been to south Jomtien, strictly Suwankolok me.

Too bad you got out of the wrong side of the bed today .

I fail to see any need for your anger.

Working for free, does not mean working free from responsibilities - the least of these being the need to keep members informed in a mature way about your (plural) criteria for censorship.

Besides, you know as well as I do that, the criticism is not directed towards you.

There is one administrator - I do not wish to name - who is one person (or many) apparently out of step with you, and us members.

If he is the "organ-grinder", then say so, we will understand. And know there is nothing we can do.

But before there is a clearer definition of purpose and intent plus a better outlining of your roles (e.g. who you are - without revealing identities), you will never get the respect you undoubtedly deserve.

And huffing and puffing doesn't help

[george]

Thomas, your tone is distrurbing.

Please use soc.culture.thai if you are not happy with us here. I will ban you from further postings if you don't have anything else to do than complain. Last warning.

[Thomas_Merton]

Thomas, your tone is distrurbing.

Please use soc.culture.thai if you are not happy with us here. I will ban you from further postings if you don't have anything else to do than complain. Last warning.

Thanks George for your understanding.

I ban myself.

Goodbye.

[Guest Unregistered: Georgie-Porgie]

Does, " Moved to Forum Support Desk", mean the same thing as Topic Buried?

[george]

No, please read the forum description. Forum support and moderation issues.

--- Quote:

Forum support desk

For questions and support for this Forum. If you have any technichal problems, moderation issues or general questions how to use the forum, please post here! Even guests can post here.