3 Phase New Installation - Hooking Up To The Grid

[Mitker]

Hi there,

(Not exactly DIY topic but seems the closest forum section)

I've spent about 5 hours reviewing many former posts about 3 phase grid connection issues and could find already plenty of infos. Thanks for all the contributors.

However, some points remain quite blur to me, either haven't been addressed in what I've found, either led to contradictory postings.

Basically, my doubts are about who installs, who pays, who owns, the major components of a 3 phase new connection to the grid.

If someone had the time to have a quick look at the following and tell me if it's correct or if there are some mistakes here, that would be greatly appreciated. Any price, quotes... are also pretty valuable.

- grid hookup: done by PEA exclusively, paid by customer, budget around 30.000-THB

- transformer 50KVA: specs validated by PEA, purchased and paid by customer, installed by PEA or licensed contractor, placed on customer land, remains property of customer (?, can be removed by customer later if service terminated??), cost about 50.000-THB, mandatory maintenance from PEA against fee (?)

- meter: placed by PEA, paid by customer (cost?, deposit?, refund if service terminated?)

- aerial LT cables (including poles) from meter to building, all on private land: specs validated by PEA (?), purchased and paid by customer, licensed company not mandatory for installation, placed on customer land, to be inspected by PEA after installation (?), remains property of customer

- indoor installation (electrical panels, their components, earthing, cables and other devices/connections...): no direct PEA requirements, customer's responsibility to follow the code, customer's ownership.

- is the termination of the service an issue in terms of delays, extra costs, refunds? (I'm renting the place and want to be able to move)

I'm not an expert in the field, rather trying to manage respective tasks while keeping a watch on budgets and process. I know (and read on TV) there's plenty of self-declared contractors (and friends of...) around the corner more interested in milking the farang than delivering any serious job. That's why I want to do my homework first.

Have a nice day and thanks,

K.

ps 1 : To make it easier to visualize, I attach here a diagram of the project and pics of the poles.

ps 2 : Some more infos: it's a factory I plan to rent for a first 3-5 years term. The rent decision is based on budget and flexibility choices. Rent is very attractive as long as the owner doesn't have to face expenses.

The premises have been unused for several years. As a result, scavengers found their way and the former (3 phase) electrical installation has totally vanished.

Only the concrete poles remain. But not sure this type would still be accepted, according to some post I read.

Power requirements are low (less than 25KVA if all the equipments are in use at the very same time) but 3 phase is necessary for the type of machinery.

[Crossy]

Is that a picture of your actual transformer pole?

If so there's a problem as the 25kV line is only providing 2 phases so you'll only be able to have a single phase LV supply. How far to a 3 wire 25kV line?

[Mitker]

Thanks for the reply, Crossy.

The pole on the former pics is the first one within the private land and also the one where I plan to install the new 3 ph transformer. For now, it supports only an old single phase transformer used by the neighbors (close building).

The grid pole is only about 20M from there. The pic below shows both poles.

[kamalabob2]

In February 2008 my experiences for 3 phase electrical plan, approval, installation and hook up for a residence were not painless, but not frustrating once we had our house builder work with a very good private electrical contractor who happen to be a PEA management person at a larger PEA office than the small PEA office in our small town.

1) Correct, but the installation connection was less money in 2008. The PEA has itemized estimates they will put in writing.

2) How much is a 4 cylinder pick up truck? What brand, type, etc.. could effect the price. We paid closer to 100,000, but still less than the PEA quoted for the EXACT same model transformer. There is also quite a bit of "hardware" up on the pole near the transformer. The PEA knew the brand and model of the transformer since it was the exact item they tried to sell me. We have gotten annual letters about paying the PEA to inspect / maintain our transformer, but our electrical contractor who had given us a 3 year warranty said it was not necessary. Other Thai Visa forum members might have better knowledge on this issue, but they have not cut our service for lack of any annual fee.

3) That one is easy. The price may in fact be posted on a large sign at your PEA office showing the five items in a new service price. I have seen, but can't recall the price on the wall for a 3 phase meter, showing the price to "buy", PEA labor fee to install, REFUNDABLE DEPOSIT, and perhaps a paperwork fee for new service. It was in Thai, but I got a fair translation. SAVE any paperwork from the PEA as we did get our "deposit" for our temporary service for during construction, refunded (actually applied to the new permanent service) immediately since we had the receipt.

4) We used a licensed real electrical contractor with a fleet of trucks. The licenses were on the first few pages of the bound "plans" that were turned in by the contractor to the PEA for him to do the installation. It took less than one week for approval of those written plans. The plans listed EVERY item used. The PEA had already given us a written quote with specifications of the possible in the air cables and thickness and height of the poles. For good reason the 3 phase poles are much thicker, taller and sunk deeper than single phase utility poles. I think you would be foolish to NOT use a licensed company for this process. They certainly exist, in our case in fact less money than the PEA. The electricians who installed over 50 ceiling lights, over 90 electrical outlets inside our home were just moonlighting employees of a larger electrical firm. Our building contractor hired and paid those five electricians, perhaps on a piece rate. Service from our transformer to the government road where the 3 phase was connected to a main run of 3 phase wires was all specified and installed by a LICENSED electrical contractor. Service from below the transformer to inside our home and all electric work inside our home was done by the moonlighting electricians.

5) In our case, we had to show our architects electrical plan for inside the house to the PEA. They then came back with the size of meter we would need. It was our choice to buy a transformer. Before they would do the "switch over" from temporary to permanent electricity in our home they sent a staff person to inspect the two breaker boxes in our home, one in the pool house and one in the garage. In our case there was no issue about the height of the electrical outlets. Our electrical plans had previously been stamped approved by the local "permission to build" municipal office.

6) No experience on this.

Think about what a Thai landlord or Thai business owner who builds an auto dealership, small hotel, large size shop would do in the event they needed 3 phase power. There are in every province electrical contractors who Thai businessmen hire. The firm we hired had surplus PEA trucks, just different letters on the doors. In the photos I've attached the private contractor installed new 3 phase poles near the existing single phase capable poles of a neighbor. The private contractor trucks are identical to the PEA trucks, since they used to be PEA trucks. Orange shirt workman are PEA staff, Blue shirt workman are staff of the private licensed electrical contractor. The PEA staff asked for beer, private staff did not.

Edited November 21, 2010 by kamalabob2

[Mitker]

Thanks a lot, Kamalabob2, for all these infos. They address effectively most of my issues. I appreciate

I'll be in BKK next week and will visit the PEA headquarters with the complete project file, hoping to get some accurate pricing from an english speaking staff there.

As for the licensed contractor, if anyone has any recommendation (or warning) to give about one in Chiang Mai vicinity, I'm pretty much interested.

[Mitker]

Quick first visit to local Chiang Mai PEA. Result: 300.000-THB for hooking up to the grid and 50KVA transformer + 30.000-THB for 4 aluminium cables running 150M

Electrician puts it at less than half that figure. Not exactly a narrow margin.

Looks like the usual chasing game has started. Unfortunately, the local PEA didn't post any specific tariff in the office. Next step: PEA in BKK then on site visit for written quote.

But, a 300.000 THB fee to have the right... to become a customer

Read it before: monopolies suck. Indeed.

Edited November 24, 2010 by Mitker