Are Swedish Tour Operators Covering Up The Threat Of Deadly Jellyfish In Thailand

[Deeral]

Try this one on for size then -

"Box Jellies are the number one cause of death by animals' bites or stings to tourists in Thailand"

And the link to support this statement is ?????????

If you think it's wrong, prove it!

[kuffki]

Try this one on for size then -

"Box Jellies are the number one cause of death by animals' bites or stings to tourists in Thailand"

And the link to support this statement is ?????????

If you think it's wrong, prove it!

sorry but you are the one making the statement, so if anything you need to prove it. and thus far i am yet to see your links to support your statistical claim.

[Scott]

Let's not start a slinging match over the issue, however, citing the source would be logical and courteous thing to do.

[Scott]

The title of this thread is:

Are Swedish Tour Operators Covering Up The Threat Of Deadly Jellyfish In Thailand Another fatality in Thailand following a box jellyfish sting

Since a few posters have decided to take the topic in a very different direction after being publicly requested not to, I will close the topic and delete off-topic posts.

[Scott]

Topic re-opened.

Please stay on topic.

[CrankyCarrot]

I'm in Phuket and have been stung three times recently by wayward jellyfish. Twice at Naiharn beach and once on Karon. This all happened over the space of a week after the tide rose considerably across all beaches on the West of the island. I'm from Australia, so the old "look for dead jellyfish on the shore" trick is how I usually judge the likelihood of a sting. But all three times I was stung, there were no dead jellies on the sand and no one else seemed to be aware of them.

I saw children playing nearby where I was stung too, which was somewhat concerning.

The stings all went away eventually, although one kept popping up bumps on my elbow for days afterward.

I know more people are killed by cars than jellyfish, but at least you can see a car coming if you take a second to look both ways before crossing the street. Jellyfish are very difficult to spot in the water. I for one would like to know when they're about. Maybe they could implement a jellyfish flag or something when a few people get stung on the same day.

Laugh all you want, I'd appreciate it and I'm sure others would too.

Oops, hope that's not too off topic.

Edited November 28, 2010 by CrankyCarrot

[Scott]

Thanks Crankycarrot, and no your not off-topic. I am sure many people would like to know when they are about.

[CrankyCarrot]

Thanks Crankycarrot, and no your not off-topic. I am sure many people would like to know when they are about.

Mai pen rai.

Hmmm, how about an iPhone app that tells you were the Jellyfish are. I'd buy that for a dollar.

[Deeral]

THere's been some pretty daft posts on this thread - not least from Scott. Ithink this poster should make up his/her mind as to whether he/she isa poster or a moderator.

Firstly- lets make it quite clear that Google isn't the only source ofinformation in the universe.

Secondly if you think that one has to cite links on this site then you arebarking up the wrong tree and seriously lacking in critical thinkingabilities and plain common sense.

Now lets look at my post

"Try this one on for size then -

"Box Jellies are the number one cause of death by animals' bites or stingsto tourists in Thailand"

Most people would read the first part and see that it is connected to thesecond part - so "try it on for size" - this to most wouldindicate it is a PROPOSITION

It is a sad reflection on both posters and others on this site that theysimply can't tell what is and isn't "a fact."And they really don't understand how to use "facts"....

Facts on their own are useless, unless they form part of a hypothesis orsome or other theory.

[e.g. - My car is red – could be a fact – but it really has nosignificance unless I'm making an implication that drivers of redcars are more aggressive then others drivers – this is not a factbut a theory, however together with the "my car is red" it formsa topic for discussion – this is the general idea behind aninternet forum]

I shouldn't have to spell this out though should I?....orshould I?

Now that we have established it is a topic for discussion - we might alsosee the subtleties - in that it is in the language of anewspaper article - so it is intended as a parody of thereporting that started this whole thread off - this again seems tohave gone way over the heads of some on this thread..

Then we come to the laughable part - the poster who thinks that ifsomething is not on google it doesn't exist.

Because what I have written is a conclusion from a critical analysis of theinformation that is largely in this thread, it would appear that thelink - if there was one - would lead straight back to the thread.

However as it is a simple piece of deduction and a proposal, a link of anykind would be spurious.

However the poster and Scott continued to cling to the theory that if youwrite something on TV there must be a link - in fact I was told by"management" that if you "state a fact" (which Iwasn't) there must be substantiation to that fact.....

If this was the case 99.9% of TV would have to be erased!

All round, the thinking was getting very wooly.

The confused poster then proceeded to post a list of animals he claimedto have killed touristsin Thailand.

The list of course contained no such animals

He had however – of course – gone onto Google and like a Chinesespeaker using the OED – had come up with completely the wrong idea– for example, he suggested a figure of 3 figures for deaths fromsnake bite. A figure I happento know reflects the ENTIRE deaths from snake bites in Thailand inwait for it – 1988 ! - of course none of these were tourists. (BTW– if you are interested – the norm for deaths from snake bite inAustralia is 3 per annum – out of about 5000 bites!!! - andAustralia has 5 of the top six most deadly snakes in the world - Idon't believe this figure has included any tourist deaths either)

Then spiders centipedes etc were mentioned – which of course – theanswer is again NONE!

The only insect that was of any interest or value to the argument was themosquito. However – this animal SPREADS a parasite – it is notthe venomous bite or sting that kills – furthermore, far as I know,with the malarial parasite and of course other viral diseases likedengue, NO TOURISTS have ever DIED in THAILAND. So we are left withthe inevitable conclusion that........

the BOX JELLY is the number one killer of tourists by sting or bite inThailand.

Icould modify it to exclude the mosquito.........

"The Box Jelly is the number one killer by venom of tourists in Thailand"

Now as I said this was a proposal based on the information mostly in thisthread already and information (a lot of which is common knowledge) Iknow from research – and I don't mean an hour on GOOGLE – thereare things called medical journals, the academic press, books even –remember libraries, give yourself a treat – watch a doco onTelevision!?!?!

Some of us have heard of the box jellybefore – as the third generationbanana-bender – and Aussie educated, I'm particularly familiarwith these things.

I'm convinced that some of the posters on this thread either haven'tread or simply can't comprehendthe information offered. In fact they seem to come back from Googleevenmore confused....yet still try to post what they think passes for anopinion.

Someone even criticised me on this thread for knowing too much???? Well thatjust about sums them up.

Thisis a topic that involves life and death.

Some comparisons have been made to traffic risks etc – these are themumblings of the bootless and unhorsed – facile and irrelevant.Apples and Oranges.

However there was someone who criticised comparison with Australia. This isthe one place that has the main KNOWLEDGE BASE – on the subject -has done most of the research, has anti-venom and knows thelife-cycle etc of these species. They have developed simple andpotentially life-saving firstaid methodologies and continually examine to ascertain the mostefficacious medical treatment – so to dismiss a comparisonwith that countrywould be foolhardy in the extreme. Their snake -bite figure show whatcan be done with a little knowledge and preparedness.

It seems that a large proportion of the posts in this thread display areally significant lack of understanding of the issues surroundingthis animal and some don't actually seem to know what animal they aretalking about – yet they still want to comment.!?!?!

It seems some don't realise – because of the origins of this thread,that it is not only the few Swedes mentioned in this thread that havedied in Thailand – the figure over the last decade is I think indouble figures. ...there will be moredeaths and they will reinforce the Box Jellies claim to be the numberone animal killer of tourists in Thailand through stings orbites....i.e. Venom.

Edited November 28, 2010 by Deeral

[Jimi007]

I'm in Phuket and have been stung three times recently by wayward jellyfish. Twice at Naiharn beach and once on Karon. This all happened over the space of a week after the tide rose considerably across all beaches on the West of the island. I'm from Australia, so the old "look for dead jellyfish on the shore" trick is how I usually judge the likelihood of a sting. But all three times I was stung, there were no dead jellies on the sand and no one else seemed to be aware of them.

I saw children playing nearby where I was stung too, which was somewhat concerning.

The stings all went away eventually, although one kept popping up bumps on my elbow for days afterward.

I know more people are killed by cars than jellyfish, but at least you can see a car coming if you take a second to look both ways before crossing the street. Jellyfish are very difficult to spot in the water. I for one would like to know when they're about. Maybe they could implement a jellyfish flag or something when a few people get stung on the same day.

Laugh all you want, I'd appreciate it and I'm sure others would too.

Oops, hope that's not too off topic.

There are small jellyfish in the water off of Nai Harm at this time of the year. They are clear and their sting is not that bad, unless they go down your shorts. But the small red ants around here have a much worse bite than those jellyfishes sting. I have been out to some of the nearby islands, and I have seen larger brown jellyfish that I have avoided but look as though they would be quite painful. I used to swim a lot at this time of the year several years ago and I didn't notice jellyfish around, but they seem to be on the increase in the past few years.

[Jimi007]

However there was someone who criticised comparison with Australia. This isthe one place that has the main KNOWLEDGE BASE – on the subject -has done most of the research, has anti-venom and knows thelife-cycle etc of these species. They have developed simple andpotentially life-saving firstaid methodologies and continually examine to ascertain the mostefficacious medical treatment – so to dismiss a comparisonwith that countrywould be foolhardy in the extreme. Their snake -bite figure show whatcan be done with a little knowledge and preparedness.

It seems that a large proportion of the posts in this thread display areally significant lack of understanding of the issues surroundingthis animal and some don't actually seem to know what animal they aretalking about – yet they still want to comment.!?!?!

It seems some don't realise – because of the origins of this thread,that it is not only the few Swedes mentioned in this thread that havedied in Thailand – the figure over the last decade is I think indouble figures. ...there will be moredeaths and they will reinforce the Box Jellies claim to be the numberone animal killer of tourists in Thailand through stings orbites....i.e. Venom.

While I agree with you and have agreed with you that box jellyfish are deadly, and they should be taken seriously! Although I have personally seen far more cobras here around my house and their venom is also deadly. I haven't heard or read about a death by either species here in Phuket though. I do know people whose dogs have been killed by cobras. I don't know if it's a cover up or not. But deadly venomous animals shouldn't be taken lightly and if there are box jellyfish in the local waters people should be warned. But then again I don't see any cobra warnings either and I am 100% certain they are around the area. I am fairly sure local hospitals stock anti-venom for cobras and I am also fairly certain they don't stock it for box jellyfish and they should. But, there is no use in arguing with people who are in denial and using a larger font won't help with that. I guess as you say; it will take a few more people's death by a Box Jellyfish for any action to be taken. Although with all the drownings around here again this year, it didn't do much to change beach safety around here either.

PS: It would be nice if you would proof read your posts and use the space bar.

[Crushdepth]

The natural range of the lethal box jellyfish you find in northern Australia includes the Gulf of Thailand, Philippines and Vietnam. There's a lot of other species that can be quite nasty too.

So yes, they're here - but how common?

[CrankyCarrot]

I'll look into this when I get a chance, but does anyone know off hand what you can do after a box jellyfish sting? Are you pretty much done for or is there a time frame for administering an anti-venom or something?

Are you supposed to keep pressure on or off the area? If this is covered elsewhere in the thread, excuse the question - it's a long thread.

[Crushdepth]

Don't apply pressure or rub, it discharges more stinging cells and makes things worse. Applying vinegar inactivates the stinging cells, then you can try removing any bits of tentacle. Bad stings can cause cardiac arrest.

Don't put vinegar on man o' war stings, it makes them worse.

[tw25rw]

I'll look into this when I get a chance, but does anyone know off hand what you can do after a box jellyfish sting? Are you pretty much done for or is there a time frame for administering an anti-venom or something?

Are you supposed to keep pressure on or off the area? If this is covered elsewhere in the thread, excuse the question - it's a long thread.

You're not necessarily done for at all. The people who die from it have usually been wrapped in tentacles. They are often overcome by the pain before they can get out of he water.

I remember seeing a documentary where a guy was testing the various first aid methods commonly recommended at the time. He was getting a colleage to cut sections of tentacle which then fell onto his bare chest. As each one fell, he was hit by the pain, said to be a severe burning. He then poured a substance over it to test the effect.. Meths was one of the things used for other stings, but in this case made it worse. Vinegar was the one that stopped the stingers from firing and gave a degree of relief.

Incidentally, the sea is full of jellyfish wherever you go and only a tiny number will do any lasting damage. These jellies spawn in brackish waters around estuaries and generally avoid the open sea. So well away from rivers, the water should be clear of them.

[Deeral]

This stuff is covered well on Aussie "stinger" sites - something you CAN Google!

First aid is vinegar. THis stops - or at least reduces continued stinging - you can then remove the strands from the victim.

Beaches in affected areas in Oz have first aid kits on the beach with vinegar in them.

Then you require paramedics etcCardiac arrest ca follow

you need to get to a hospital.

THe animals in Oz spawn in estuaries and then move out into more open sea. THey can swim but inevitably tide and current will have some effect on where they go. Just because the water looks clear it doesn't mean they aren't BJs there.

[Deeral]

However there was someone who criticised comparison with Australia. This isthe one place that has the main KNOWLEDGE BASE – on the subject -has done most of the research, has anti-venom and knows thelife-cycle etc of these species. They have developed simple andpotentially life-saving firstaid methodologies and continually examine to ascertain the mostefficacious medical treatment – so to dismiss a comparisonwith that countrywould be foolhardy in the extreme. Their snake -bite figure show whatcan be done with a little knowledge and preparedness.

It seems that a large proportion of the posts in this thread display areally significant lack of understanding of the issues surroundingthis animal and some don't actually seem to know what animal they aretalking about – yet they still want to comment.!?!?!

It seems some don't realise – because of the origins of this thread,that it is not only the few Swedes mentioned in this thread that havedied in Thailand – the figure over the last decade is I think indouble figures. ...there will be moredeaths and they will reinforce the Box Jellies claim to be the numberone animal killer of tourists in Thailand through stings orbites....i.e. Venom.

While I agree with you and have agreed with you that box jellyfish are deadly, and they should be taken seriously! Although I have personally seen far more cobras here around my house and their venom is also deadly. I haven't heard or read about a death by either species here in Phuket though. I do know people whose dogs have been killed by cobras. I don't know if it's a cover up or not. But deadly venomous animals shouldn't be taken lightly and if there are box jellyfish in the local waters people should be warned. But then again I don't see any cobra warnings either and I am 100% certain they are around the area. I am fairly sure local hospitals stock anti-venom for cobras and I am also fairly certain they don't stock it for box jellyfish and they should. But, there is no use in arguing with people who are in denial and using a larger font won't help with that. I guess as you say; it will take a few more people's death by a Box Jellyfish for any action to be taken. Although with all the drownings around here again this year, it didn't do much to change beach safety around here either.

PS: It would be nice if you would proof read your posts and use the space bar.

I'm using a Mac and have formatting problems with Thai Visa.

some formatting simply won't change

I've been onto TV about it but of course it's not their fault as they are perfect in every way.

[Jimi007]

However there was someone who criticised comparison with Australia. This isthe one place that has the main KNOWLEDGE BASE – on the subject -has done most of the research, has anti-venom and knows thelife-cycle etc of these species. They have developed simple andpotentially life-saving firstaid methodologies and continually examine to ascertain the mostefficacious medical treatment – so to dismiss a comparisonwith that countrywould be foolhardy in the extreme. Their snake -bite figure show whatcan be done with a little knowledge and preparedness.

It seems that a large proportion of the posts in this thread display areally significant lack of understanding of the issues surroundingthis animal and some don't actually seem to know what animal they aretalking about – yet they still want to comment.!?!?!

It seems some don't realise – because of the origins of this thread,that it is not only the few Swedes mentioned in this thread that havedied in Thailand – the figure over the last decade is I think indouble figures. ...there will be moredeaths and they will reinforce the Box Jellies claim to be the numberone animal killer of tourists in Thailand through stings orbites....i.e. Venom.

While I agree with you and have agreed with you that box jellyfish are deadly, and they should be taken seriously! Although I have personally seen far more cobras here around my house and their venom is also deadly. I haven't heard or read about a death by either species here in Phuket though. I do know people whose dogs have been killed by cobras. I don't know if it's a cover up or not. But deadly venomous animals shouldn't be taken lightly and if there are box jellyfish in the local waters people should be warned. But then again I don't see any cobra warnings either and I am 100% certain they are around the area. I am fairly sure local hospitals stock anti-venom for cobras and I am also fairly certain they don't stock it for box jellyfish and they should. But, there is no use in arguing with people who are in denial and using a larger font won't help with that. I guess as you say; it will take a few more people's death by a Box Jellyfish for any action to be taken. Although with all the drownings around here again this year, it didn't do much to change beach safety around here either.

PS: It would be nice if you would proof read your posts and use the space bar.

I'm using a Mac and have formatting problems with Thai Visa.

some formatting simply won't change

I've been onto TV about it but of course it's not their fault as they are perfect in every way.

I am using an Apple PowerBook G4 that's almost 10 years old and I don't seem to have any issues, other than it is a bit too slow for video. I am using Safari 4.13 browser on it, with Mac OS 10.4.11. Do you run the software updater? That may be the problem, as it's not a problem with the Forum's software now. They have had some glitches with their new software, but they seem to have been addressed....

Cheers, Jimi

[Deeral]

However there was someone who criticised comparison with Australia. This isthe one place that has the main KNOWLEDGE BASE – on the subject -has done most of the research, has anti-venom and knows thelife-cycle etc of these species. They have developed simple andpotentially life-saving firstaid methodologies and continually examine to ascertain the mostefficacious medical treatment – so to dismiss a comparisonwith that countrywould be foolhardy in the extreme. Their snake -bite figure show whatcan be done with a little knowledge and preparedness.

It seems that a large proportion of the posts in this thread display areally significant lack of understanding of the issues surroundingthis animal and some don't actually seem to know what animal they aretalking about – yet they still want to comment.!?!?!

It seems some don't realise – because of the origins of this thread,that it is not only the few Swedes mentioned in this thread that havedied in Thailand – the figure over the last decade is I think indouble figures. ...there will be moredeaths and they will reinforce the Box Jellies claim to be the numberone animal killer of tourists in Thailand through stings orbites....i.e. Venom.

While I agree with you and have agreed with you that box jellyfish are deadly, and they should be taken seriously! Although I have personally seen far more cobras here around my house and their venom is also deadly. I haven't heard or read about a death by either species here in Phuket though. I do know people whose dogs have been killed by cobras. I don't know if it's a cover up or not. But deadly venomous animals shouldn't be taken lightly and if there are box jellyfish in the local waters people should be warned. But then again I don't see any cobra warnings either and I am 100% certain they are around the area. I am fairly sure local hospitals stock anti-venom for cobras and I am also fairly certain they don't stock it for box jellyfish and they should. But, there is no use in arguing with people who are in denial and using a larger font won't help with that. I guess as you say; it will take a few more people's death by a Box Jellyfish for any action to be taken. Although with all the drownings around here again this year, it didn't do much to change beach safety around here either.

PS: It would be nice if you would proof read your posts and use the space bar.

I'm using a Mac and have formatting problems with Thai Visa.

some formatting simply won't change

I've been onto TV about it but of course it's not their fault as they are perfect in every way.

I am using an Apple PowerBook G4 that's almost 10 years old and I don't seem to have any issues, other than it is a bit too slow for video. I am using Safari 4.13 browser on it, with Mac OS 10.4.11. Do you run the software updater? That may be the problem, as it's not a problem with the Forum's software now. They have had some glitches with their new software, but they seem to have been addressed....

Cheers, Jimi

I'm on Snow Leopard, which isn't related to your OS.Ithink the problem though is compatibility between the "word processor I use some times - e.i - Open office or Neo Office - it doesn't seem to like them.As you pointed out the problems started when they "updated" their software.A lot of web sites use the same engine and I have not experienced any problems yet.

THe problem doesn't appear to be constant - anyhow - I'm really not that concerned about what I write on a web site - they can just take it or leave it.I have more important things to write for than TV

[Deeral]

THe thing about Cobras is that EVERYBODY knows about them. ....and in comparison to some countries - THailand is still not doing a very good job in that area either.

Besides, most snakes scurry off when a human approaches and hospitals have various anti-venoms.

But Jelly fish are like "jobbies" ..... have you ever tried to out-swim one when it gets in your slip stream??????

So when it comes to snakes etc people are AWARE (e.g the clown who posted that list of creepy-crawlies) - and my point all along is that in the case of Box Jellies, the authorities, rather than make tourists aware - as they did in OZ - seem to have taken the attitude that either

"If they ignore it, it will go away"

OR

"IF we don't want to frighten off tourists, we'd better keep quiet about it."

[Christian1972]

I live in Koh Mak and I swim nearly every day.. I was biten twice by a jellifish ( NO Box jellifish in the Island ! ) .... PUT VINEGAR in 5-10 MINUTES... and no problem !