Western Woman Having A Baby In Chiang Mai

[Torisheena]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone can give me some advice please. I am 13 weeks pregnant now and was going back to England to have my baby, but with the maternity pay over here in Thailand only being 45 days, I think I am going to have to stay here to have my baby. I have heard lots of differing things about giving birth over here in Thailand, from forced to have a c-section to being told not to push until morning when the doctor arrives. These have really worried me. It is my first ever pregnancy and to be far away from home and family isn't helping matters. My other half, soon to be husband, is Thai, but I don't speak any Thai and understand only a little at the moment. I had wanted to fly back to England to have a water birth with my family near me, but all looks like it wil not go that way. As my other half will have to fly with me and that means two of us having no income for 4-6months. I am getting worried and stressed and would like some advice please.

Thank you.

Tors

[MikeyIdea]

See it from the positive side, Thais have many more children than westerners so the doctors here have more experience

Government hospital or private? Friends of mine have experience of both and I personally think both will be OK too, boy friend probably not allowed to be in the room when you give birth if it's a government hospital, doctors and staff have less time to talk and offer advice etc in government hospitals of course. The advantage of money, experience / knowledge wise I dont think there is much difference

Thai doctors may suggest c-section quicker than a western doctor but you should be fine if you and your boyfriend discuss and clarify your standpoint with him before the baby is due. You want a c-section ONLY of it is absolutely necessary from a medical standpoint. Just clearly state that and I think that is what you will get.

Get used to that knowledge here in general is MUCH lower than in Europe. My own experience is that also nurses working in the maternity ward have very low knowledge about what's surrounding pregnancy and giving birth. Experience as a daddy, not mummy unfortunately. Nurses know enough to advice workarounds, doctors knowledge include root causes

You should be fine Tors

Good Luck

[mkawish]

Torisheena

If you can help it, choose a private hospital over govt services.

We have experiences both private and govt delivery services.

The differences are enormous.

You will be much at ease at the private hospital delivery rooms, care and attention.

Do not let them pressure you or your Thai husband into signing the form to let them do the C.

The C is the easiest way out for them but it may not be the best for you.

Besides, the attending physician(s) will also get paid extra about 7,000-10,000 THB to be paid in cash by you or your family.

No one in the delivery room was happy when I repeated my insistence that C is reserved for last alternative.

The baby boy was bone fine and is now 10 month old, full of energy like his 68 yr old daddy. LOL

The total cost was around 30,000.

[BuddhistDruid]

Do keep in mind when you are thinking about this that all those prices you hear for maternity packages assume that there are no complications. If anything goes wrong, if your child requires an NICU when he is born, if anything out of the ordinary occurs, you could be facing millions of baht in medical bills.

Back in England, that would be covered by the state. Here in Thailand, unless you are at a government hospital and on the gold card scheme, you will be paying for those bills out of pocket. Maternity riders on insurance policies almost never cover complications like NICU charges.

So before you make any decision, consider the implications if a problem develops. You may wish to wait until you are 8 months into this and then fly back to your home country, or leave your other half here and let him come over only when you are reasonably confident the birth is imminent. If that option had been available to me when we had our twins, that is almost certainly what we would have done. Unfortunately, I am from the US and no such free health care was available.

For my perspective, I might be willing to risk the job if the employer was unwilling to grant unpaid leave for the time I needed it. Thousands of babies are born every year in Thailand with no complications. Then again a small percentage are not. Pray you are not one of the ones who has complications, or you could go bankrupt.

How important is your job?

Edited November 22, 2010 by BuddhistDruid

[Torisheena]

Hi, thanks for replying. My work has given me 6 months leave, it is just I will not get paid for this which is the thing thats worried me. If I went back to England it would all be free, but the cost of living is very expensive. I don't have a lot of savings. Also my husband and I will have only been married a few months so not sure how easy it will be to get a visa. All these different things are playing on my brain. He wants whatever I want, but if we go back to England all our savings will be gone. If I just went our baby will not be Thai, as he has to be there to sign papers. My family wont come out, which has also upset me.

If I went private, which hosptials are private? It scared me that the cost could go up to millions if there is complications. My family have never had easy births. Thanks so far guys.

Tors

[Boo]

If you think you will have a complex labour then I would suggest to go to UK, even if alone at first your husband could follow on a tourist visa a couple of weeks before the birth. But even if you do have the child alone in Uk your child will be thai as it has a thai parent. Your husband doesn't need to be present but it would of course make things easier.

It is safe to fly with a new born after a few weeks.

In total you are looking at at least 5 weeks in Uk after baby is born to apply for thai passport/birth certificate etc but there is nothing to stop you from returning to thailand without them & apply for them on a UK visit at a later date, the baby can stay in thailand on UK passport, there is no overstay for children under 14 years old (give or take a year)

[LaoPo]

If you think you will have a complex labour then I would suggest to go to UK, even if alone at first your husband could follow on a tourist visa a couple of weeks before the birth. But even if you do have the child alone in Uk your child will be thai as it has a thai parent. Your husband doesn't need to be present but it would of course make things easier.

It is safe to fly with a new born after a few weeks.

In total you are looking at at least 5 weeks in Uk after baby is born to apply for thai passport/birth certificate etc but there is nothing to stop you from returning to thailand without them & apply for them on a UK visit at a later date, the baby can stay in thailand on UK passport, there is no overstay for children under 14 years old (give or take a year)

Wise advise.

LaoPo

[Torisheena]

Think my husband would rather stay here, bless. As he is really worried about money and jobs. He will have to take time off and not be paid for any of it. But he has said up to me. I would love to be back in UK, but Bt to pound is not good. My family can't help either. I would want my husband with me wherever I have the baby as it is both our first. To fair I am scared so much of the whole thing!

[Sheryl]

Do you have health insurance through your job? And if so, what type/ Thai social security, private insurance or what? This is very pertinent re the possible expenses related to complications should they arise.

Another important issue: do you speak Thai? Because if not, being in a government hospital for the birth might be difficult for you...especially as they won't let your husband into the delivery room. Even in private hospital, the nurses will speak very little English, but depending on where you go they may speak some, the doctor will spend more time with you as well and can pre-arrange to have your husband along so language issues would be much less.

Even if you speak Thai pretty well, under the stress of labor you may do better in your native tongue

See this thread, which includes some specific doctor recommendatuons in CM (note that I most definitely do not encourage the idea of a home birth -- especially in Thailand -- but while that is the thread title it also includes useful info on hospital deliveries and docs supportive of a mother's choice in delivery method)

I'd also suggest you PM this TV member: thailanddoula

She is an Austrlian doula (lay birthing assistant/coach) living in Chiang mai, knows a lot about maternity services there.

[Torisheena]

Do you have health insurance through your job? And if so, what type/ Thai social security, private insurance or what? This is very pertinent re the possible expenses related to complications should they arise.

Another important issue: do you speak Thai? Because if not, being in a government hospital for the birth might be difficult for you...especially as they won't let your husband into the delivery room. Even in private hospital, the nurses will speak very little English, but depending on where you go they may speak some, the doctor will spend more time with you as well and can pre-arrange to have your husband along so language issues would be much less.

Even if you speak Thai pretty well, under the stress of labor you may do better in your native tongue

See this thread, which includes some specific doctor recommendatuons in CM http://www.thaivisa...._1#entry2811551 (note that I most definitely do not encourage the idea of a home birth -- especially in Thailand -- but while that is the thread title it also includes useful info on hospital deliveries and docs supportive of a mother's choice in delivery method)

I'd also suggest you PM this TV member: thailanddoula

She is an Austrlian doula (lay birthing assistant/coach) living in Chiang mai, knows a lot about maternity services there.

Thanks,

I have BUPA but doesn't cover a lot. Just stay in hospital for surgery etc. Ver basic, so my guess is not great for pregnancy. I don't speak any Thai. My husband is brilliant at English so this is our way of communicating.

I am so unsure what to do, as need him to interpret for me. Our hospital is the Rajavej hospital and the doctor has been great with me. Up until last Thursday we were def going to UK to have the baby. Money is a major factor in our thought process.

Thanks everyone for help me with your advice.

[Boo]

I'm not a supporter of the c-section as the only option route many thai docs try to force but I do beleive in a mothers choice & in this instance it may be a viable option for you. You want to stay in Thailand, control the cost, not have any nasty suprises during labour & you have a family history of complicated vaginal births.

Obviously, things can always go out of control even when doing your best to keep control of them, nothing much you can do about that & something you will just deal with if it happens but you can try to minimise the risk of complications etc so a c-section may be a solution to all issues.

[MikeyIdea]

I think you will be fine Tors. Nearly all women are afraid when their first birth comes but it's the most natural thing in the world, millions do it (and it hurts for all of them). I wish I could experience it but its not going to happen, born wrong sex for that

Take the advice here and... just don't worry too much, you will be fine

[too true]

Do you have health insurance through your job? And if so, what type/ Thai social security, private insurance or what? This is very pertinent re the possible expenses related to complications should they arise.

Another important issue: do you speak Thai? Because if not, being in a government hospital for the birth might be difficult for you...especially as they won't let your husband into the delivery room. Even in private hospital, the nurses will speak very little English, but depending on where you go they may speak some, the doctor will spend more time with you as well and can pre-arrange to have your husband along so language issues would be much less.

Even if you speak Thai pretty well, under the stress of labor you may do better in your native tongue

See this thread, which includes some specific doctor recommendatuons in CM http://www.thaivisa...._1#entry2811551 (note that I most definitely do not encourage the idea of a home birth -- especially in Thailand -- but while that is the thread title it also includes useful info on hospital deliveries and docs supportive of a mother's choice in delivery method)

I'd also suggest you PM this TV member: thailanddoula

She is an Austrlian doula (lay birthing assistant/coach) living in Chiang mai, knows a lot about maternity services there.

Thanks,

I have BUPA but doesn't cover a lot. Just stay in hospital for surgery etc. Ver basic, so my guess is not great for pregnancy. I don't speak any Thai. My husband is brilliant at English so this is our way of communicating.

I am so unsure what to do, as need him to interpret for me. Our hospital is the Rajavej hospital and the doctor has been great with me. Up until last Thursday we were def going to UK to have the baby. Money is a major factor in our thought process.

Thanks everyone for help me with your advice.

Rajavej Hospital, Chiang Mai, isn't it? Had both my kids at hospitals in Chiang Mai. Hubby was allowed in for both births. Have some VERY interesting pictures from the first! Understand your hesitation over having a baby here but to put things in perspective, it's giving birth, not rocket science. If you are actually in Chiang Mai, you might consider checking out the private clinic at Suandok hospital. Have heard some very good things from other farang female friends who've given birth there.

If you're not in Chiang Mai and it's a coincidence in hospital names, the actual experience of giving birth here is totally fine at most private hospitals. If you're nervous about it and are likely to panic or sweat the small stuff, you might be better off at home.

good luck

tt

[mkawish]

I'm not a supporter of the c-section as the only option route many thai docs try to force but I do beleive in a mothers choice & in this instance it may be a viable option for you. You want to stay in Thailand, control the cost, not have any nasty suprises during labour & you have a family history of complicated vaginal births.

Obviously, things can always go out of control even when doing your best to keep control of them, nothing much you can do about that & something you will just deal with if it happens but you can try to minimise the risk of complications etc so a c-section may be a solution to all issues.

If you decide to go the C route, try to negotiate the personal service fee to be paid to the ob-gyn which should normally be around 8,000 THB for a Thai mom to be.

And he/she desires cash right after the end of the procedure.

I told the ob that it was kind of unprofessional to demand such huge sum.

she smiled and struck her tongue out at me.

[too true]

I'm not a supporter of the c-section as the only option route many thai docs try to force but I do beleive in a mothers choice & in this instance it may be a viable option for you. You want to stay in Thailand, control the cost, not have any nasty suprises during labour & you have a family history of complicated vaginal births.

Obviously, things can always go out of control even when doing your best to keep control of them, nothing much you can do about that & something you will just deal with if it happens but you can try to minimise the risk of complications etc so a c-section may be a solution to all issues.

If you decide to go the C route, try to negotiate the personal service fee to be paid to the ob-gyn which should normally be around 8,000 THB for a Thai mom to be.

And he/she desires cash right after the end of the procedure.

I told the ob that it was kind of unprofessional to demand such huge sum.

she smiled and struck her tongue out at me.

I've heard this about money as well. Both my kids were born C-section. First one emergency and 5 weeks early - doctor would not accept a money gift afterwards, though he eventually agreed on a bottle of whisky. Second was after a very long a difficult labour that just wouldn't progress - different doctor, but she also would not accept money from us. We gave her flowers and a basket thingy full of treats from Rimping or somewhere like that. My husband was the one trying to give them something but they just wouldn't take.

Do Thai/Thai couples normally pay that much to a doctor?

[too true]

I don't know how my reply ended up as part of mkawish's post... that's what I get for trying to multitask!

This was actually my post:

I've heard this about money as well. Both my kids were born C-section. First one emergency and 5 weeks early - doctor would not accept a money gift afterwards, though he eventually agreed on a bottle of whisky. Second was after a very long a difficult labour that just wouldn't progress - different doctor, but she also would not accept money from us. We gave her flowers and a basket thingy full of treats from Rimping or somewhere like that. My husband was the one trying to give them something but they just wouldn't take.

Do Thai/Thai couples normally pay that much to a doctor?

[MikeyIdea]

Do Thai/Thai couples normally pay that much to a doctor?

No, certainly not. A basket with goodies, fruits etc is always appreciated though but not necessary either

Edited November 26, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[mkawish]

Do Thai/Thai couples normally pay that much to a doctor?

No, certainly not. A basket with goodies, fruits etc is always appreciated though but not necessary either

too true, on 2010-11-25 23:41, said:

Do Thai/Thai couples normally pay that much to a doctor?

Yes, they definitely do. Ask your Thai neighboring couples. It is just such an enormous sums for most Thais. It truly grieves me who can only verbally complain without any real teeth to affect any better solution to help the less endowed Thais.

MikeyIdea dear:

Come on now, Mikey.

I am speaking as the primary source.

You surely won't want to argue any further now, would you?

I personally authorized that unprofessional disbursement.

It happened right in front of my big nose!

For your info, it was done to just keep peace within the extended family. As for my own family, there was no C for sure.

Was I happy about such payment? No. Definitely not.

Then, were the Ob-Gyn and other attending specialists deserving the pecuniary atonement after a successful operation?

Yes, imho, they definitely were! Considering their pitiful salaries and allowances!

Was it professional?

Well, let MikeyIdea and other Thaivisa Moms and Dads be the judge.

May I reassure all of you, these kind of practices have been prevalent for ages.

My very own Mom never asked for any money like this back in 1950, but the grateful and appreciative family members would always bring chicken, ducks, veggies et al to show appreciation every holiday celebrations and such; which to us, it meant alot more. Most patients then became sort of, part of our extended family circle.

Yes, we have been in Thailand since PreDee was the PM. Anyone remembers him? LOL

Edited November 26, 2010 by mkawish

[MikeyIdea]

Do Thai/Thai couples normally pay that much to a doctor?

No, certainly not. A basket with goodies, fruits etc is always appreciated though but not necessary either

too true, on 2010-11-25 23:41, said:

Do Thai/Thai couples normally pay that much to a doctor?

Yes, they definitely do. Ask your Thai neighboring couples. It is just such an enormous sums for most Thais. It truly grieves me who can only verbally complain without any real teeth to affect any better solution to help the less endowed Thais.

MikeyIdea dear:

Come on now, Mikey.

I am speaking as the primary source.

You surely won't want to argue any further now, would you?

I personally authorized that unprofessional disbursement.

It happened right in front of my big nose!

For your info, it was done to just keep peace within the extended family. As for my own family, there was no C for sure.

Was I happy about such payment? No. Definitely not.

Then, were the Ob-Gyn and other attending specialists deserving the pecuniary atonement after a successful operation?

Yes, imho, they definitely were! Considering their pitiful salaries and allowances!

Was it professional?

Well, let MikeyIdea and other Thaivisa Moms and Dads be the judge.

May I reassure all of you, these kind of practices have been prevalent for ages.

My very own Mom never asked for any money like this back in 1950, but the grateful and appreciative family members would always bring chicken, ducks, veggies et al to show appreciation every holiday celebrations and such; which to us, it meant alot more. Most patients then became sort of, part of our extended family circle.

Yes, we have been in Thailand since PreDee was the PM. Anyone remembers him? LOL

A couple of important things to point out here. It is totally up to case if gift is given or not. If you are happy with the service then you can give if you want, if you are not happy, then you don't give. As Thai's would say: It's up to you. Secondly; It is very much up to where the child is born. Private hopitals and gifts are unusual but can happen. Money is not a good gift, gift baskets are. Government hospitals and gifts are much more common, gifts can even be money. Again, if you are happy with the service. My first wife's sister didn't give anything at a government hospital, she didn't like the c-section and didn't think they deserved any

I have no problems if you pay a lot and no problems if anyone else pays a lot either but all I say is that it is not the norm to pay a lot. I think we can agree that the poorer generally pay more of their disposable income than the better off, this is sad but a fact in most things in life. The poor have less but still give more of what they can give, especially of their hearts

I go to hospitals to visit newborns every year and have done so for the last 15 years. I have 2 of my own staff with 11 and 7 month old babies now, none of them gave anything because the births were at private hospitals. I went to Chula about a year ago and the staff there got a big basket , must have been a few thousand bath

Friends?

[Goinghomesoon]

If I just went our baby will not be Thai, as he has to be there to sign papers. Tors

I would check this to be sure. Maybe you could send the Thai Embassy registration papers to your husband in Thailand to be signed if he didn't go with you. Maybe ask Boo, she might know?

Also I don't think you need to be back in your home country very long - I've had friends go back to Australia at 8 months, have the baby and be back when bub is 4 weeks old, so only 8 weeks away total.

Edited December 11, 2010 by Goinghomesoon

[saffagirl]

Hi there! I hope you are well Tors.

I've just been looking around for information about maternity leave for foreigners in Thailand (as my boss is a bit of a slave driver and I feel she's been treating me a little unfairly and avoids the topic of maternity leave for me) and came across your post. I was wondering what the final outcome was? Are you still in Thailand? Have you had your baby yet or when are you due?

I'm 8 months pregnant and live with my Thai partner in Chonburi. Having my baby here at Samitivej Sriracha - been saving for this as I do not have ANY insurance!

Would love to hear what's happened with your story.

[Senia]

Hi Tors, Hi Saffagirl

can't help you with maternity leave cos I was having my boss's baby , lol I work for my hubby.

But I did have my baby at Thammasat University Hospital , chose it because of it's vicinity to our apartment.

All nurses and doctors speak English, they work with you , so you have to do your homework and reading up about tetanus shots and what not, really you do , I am guessing that most Thai women trust their doctors explicitly and just do what the doctor tells them without asking why . I didn't , I had my questions ready for every visit and was very clear ( like Boo ) what I do and do not want for my pregnancy.

Be bold ( cos your husband won't, my hubby is also Thai ) , ask them why they are taking blood, doing this or that test and what I wanted , second ultrasound to check weight, induction at 39 weeks etc.

Tors if you are young and healthy and have no family history of complicated births, I will recommend that you have your baby here, your hubby can be with you and you can save up on costs.

Like Boo, I have read in this forum a few times how Thai wives had to do a C cos they were having farang sized babies thats all bullcrap. I had a 7.4 lbs ( 3.350 kg ) baby which is the average weight of a farang baby, naturally . Yes I had a tear and needed quite a few stiches but it's all good. In my ward after delivery , there were all 3 kg and up babies and all were natural births. I am only 5 ft tall.

Unless you are planning to have a 5 kg and up baby ( definate cause for a C ) , there should be no real reason for it, even when I was in my 12th hour of labor and begging for it then they told me to wait 6 hours while they considered it ( 17 hour labour, 1 hour delivery *** I just didn't dilate fast enough )

take Boo's advise do everthing here, until in your 71/2 - 8th month where an ultrasound can detect most complications before making a final decision, no complication, stay, complications..... go home

medicallll wise i had a great experience but labor alone, and being warded was the shit pit, still i can't complain, i have a beautiful baby to show for it .

try http://www.babycenter.com/pregnancy, worked and is still working for me

good luck guys

[Senia]

Costs: per doctors vist bi monthy until 34 weeks - 100 - 300 baht ( including medicines and shots )

ultrasounds - 500 baht each ( 2-3 in total should be enough )

baby heart monitor per 20 min session - 300 baht ( I had 3 sessions )

delivery + 3 day stay - 6200 baht

*** quoted rate for c-section - 10500 baht

no insurance but be very clear that hubby and baby are Thai. ( still think that they overcharged me somewhat but it's still relatively cheap )

[Senia]

COSTS

bi monthly hospital visits - 100- 300 baht ( includings shots and meds )

per ultrasound - 500 baht ( 2- 3 should suffice )

per baby heart monitor session - 300 baht ( I had 3 )

delivery + 3 day stay 6200 baht

*C - section quote 10500 baht

make sure that they know that hubby is Thai

[Senia]

ok if anyone is following this thread, DO NOT GO TO THAMMASAT UNIVERSITY HOSPITAL, they basically botched my episiotomy, and tears and i have been stitched all over the place, no wonder it hurt so bad. going to another hospital today , will update

[foodiedude]

Hey Tors

I am in a very similar situation, Really not sure about having a baby in CM .

my Concerns are,

1 Lack of comunication in English,

2 Lack of Pain releif ( is it really limited to Pethidine and Epidural)

3 Common practice of C section ( if not emerengcy)

4 Common practice of cutting rather than naturally tearing.

5 Looming medical bills (especailly if there are complications during or god forbid after the birth for the child)

,My first child was born in the Uk. She was 13 days late, huge, and after complications I had a c section,

as well as regular visits from a mid wife pre and post birth, I stayed in Hospital , in a private room for 7 days after with ample pain relief ( horrifically I hear you only get paracetamol here!!!!)

It would be lovely to, be free of the stress of trieing to work out, which is the best option. ( magic wand anyone? or a glimpse into the future?)

So Tors have you came to any decisions, had any further advice you like to pass on?

freaking out - mother to be

[Mario2008]

Lack of English will also depend on the hospital. Some of the private hospitals have staff that speak reasonable English. Regarding the costs it is I believe possible to get a package price.

I hope soembody will coem along with better information or do a forum search. There should be a few threads about delivering a child in CM.

[sbk]

Hey Tors

I am in a very similar situation, Really not sure about having a baby in CM .

my Concerns are,

1 Lack of comunication in English,

2 Lack of Pain releif ( is it really limited to Pethidine and Epidural)

3 Common practice of C section ( if not emerengcy)

4 Common practice of cutting rather than naturally tearing.

5 Looming medical bills (especailly if there are complications during or god forbid after the birth for the child)

,My first child was born in the Uk. She was 13 days late, huge, and after complications I had a c section,

as well as regular visits from a mid wife pre and post birth, I stayed in Hospital , in a private room for 7 days after with ample pain relief ( horrifically I hear you only get paracetamol here!!!!)

It would be lovely to, be free of the stress of trieing to work out, which is the best option. ( magic wand anyone? or a glimpse into the future?)

So Tors have you came to any decisions, had any further advice you like to pass on?

freaking out - mother to be

As far as I know most OB's in Thailand won't allow a natural birth if you've already had a C-section as there is a possibility of the uterus rupturing, you would need to find a western trained dr who would allow that and even then, it would totally depend on your circumstances.