Which Type Of Fuel Is Best To Use?

[Kilgore Trout]

If you have a bike that reccommends gasohol (E10) or benzine 91; which one is better for the bike?

[ThePedroDB]

Hi,

I asked this very question whilst picking up my new Versys a week or so ago. They basically told me that the bike will run on any of the grades of fuel available (gasohol etc.) in Thailand without any problem. LPG could be a challenge, I suppose...

However, their opinion was that 91 Red was the best option for the V. The sticker on my tank also says 91 octane.

I've only run it on 91 Red so far, so I can't comment on how well (or otherwise) it runs on any other grade of fuel.

My thinking was that 91 Red would be the better option for the running in period at least and I would probably stick with that and only use gasohol when I couldn't get anything else.

I ran old chopper bikes prior to the V and one mechanic recommended not using gasohol but his reasons seemed a bit suspect - so I won't mention them here. If your bike has a sticker recommending gasohol on it, then that would be a different matter though.

Which is better for your bike is a tricky question. I would say that going with the manufacturers recommendation would be safest if you are in any doubt. You don't say what make/model your bike is but if you can contact your dealer or the manufacturer that would get you the closest to a definitive answer.

Hope that helps a bit! Maybe other forum members have more practical experience with their bikes than I and can advise too.

Best Regards

P

Edited November 23, 2010 by ThePedroDB

[Garry]

This is from first hand experience. If you bike (or car for that matter) was never designed to use any blend of alcohol/gasohol then I would reccomment you not use it. I have used 95 Gasohol in my Ducati and even though the bike runs fine on the mixture, my rubber fuel lines from the fuel tank are getting a crystal type deposit on the outside surface. I put this down to the porosity of the rubber hoses and them not be alcohol resistant. Though in Thailand I am between a rock & a hard place when it comes to fuel choice. I am currently trying Benzine 91 to if the problem is not as severe with the 95. I am planning on getting alcohol resistant hoses for my internal & external fuel lines plus O rings to suite.

[Hili]

I am also preferring benzine 91 but actually in my area its hard to find. Many stations selling gasohol only, thats a shame...

[Garry]

This is from first hand experience. If you bike (or car for that matter) was never designed to use any blend of alcohol/gasohol then I would reccomment you not use it. I have used 95 Gasohol in my Ducati and even though the bike runs fine on the mixture, my rubber fuel lines from the fuel tank are getting a crystal type deposit on the outside surface. I put this down to the porosity of the rubber hoses and them not being alcohol resistant. Though in Thailand I am between a rock & a hard place when it comes to fuel choice. I am currently trying Benzine 91 to see if the problem is not as severe with the 95. I am planning on getting alcohol resistant hoses for my internal & external fuel lines plus O rings to suite.

This is one of the primary websites that I have been looking at to get resistant tubing: http://www.aircrafts...es/bingfuel.php

and this is the guide I am using for chemical compatibility for 'O' rings: http://www.allorings...mpatibility.htm and if you look up Ethyl Alcohol (Ethanol), you will see recommended o ring material 1 being the best, 4 being not recommended

Edited November 25, 2010 by Garry

[ThePedroDB]

my rubber fuel lines from the fuel tank are getting a crystal type deposit on the outside surface

...this was the reason my ex-mechanic (the V will be going to the dealers..) said not to use Gasohol. He said it attacks rubbers etc. I guess older bikes kike my 15+ year old chopper and most of his rental fleet would have been even more susceptible as the rubbers would have aged too.

I was doubtful but Garry has proved it.

P

[Garry]

This is from first hand experience. If you bike (or car for that matter) was never designed to use any blend of alcohol/gasohol then I would reccomment you not use it. I have used 95 Gasohol in my Ducati and even though the bike runs fine on the mixture, my rubber fuel lines from the fuel tank are getting a crystal type deposit on the outside surface. I put this down to the porosity of the rubber hoses and them not being alcohol resistant. Though in Thailand I am between a rock & a hard place when it comes to fuel choice. I am currently trying Benzine 91 to see if the problem is not as severe with the 95. I am planning on getting alcohol resistant hoses for my internal & external fuel lines plus O rings to suite.

This is one of the primary websites that I have been looking at to get resistant tubing: http://www.aircrafts...es/bingfuel.php

and this is the guide I am using for chemical compatibility for 'O' rings: http://www.allorings...mpatibility.htm and if you look up Ethyl Alcohol (Ethanol), you will see recommended o ring material 1 being the best, 4 being not recommended

I made this material compatibiliy chart based off the one above but in an Excel format and filtered, to give you an idea of how apart the material issues can be. As you can see in the info below, the best overall performer for all fuel types is Perfluoro-elastomer. Whether it is readily available is a different issue altogther. There are two others which would be acceptable as well: Buna-N (I've used this material as gloves) & the Fluoro-Silicone.

[Garry]

my rubber fuel lines from the fuel tank are getting a crystal type deposit on the outside surface

...this was the reason my ex-mechanic (the V will be going to the dealers..) said not to use Gasohol. He said it attacks rubbers etc. I guess older bikes kike my 15+ year old chopper and most of his rental fleet would have been even more susceptible as the rubbers would have aged too.

I was doubtful but Garry has proved it.

P

Hi Pedro,

So far there are no signs of degredation / cracking / dryness / powdered deposits (dry rubber) etc. Once I can source the materials I'll be converting it all. Either that or regularly changing my hoses and o rings to compensate for the ethanol leaching through the rubber.

Failure is not an option I want in my book.

regards,

Garry

[sirhollyBKK]

don't use gasohol if you can avoid it

will shorten life of all rubber and plastic parts in the fuel system

there is one class of polymers(rubber, plastic) which is resistant to polar fluids like Ethanol, brake fluid etc and another group is resistant to non polar fluids like mineral oil

there is no polymer 100% resistant to both polar and non polar fluids

PTT sells 91 gasoline on most stations and Caltex sells 95 gasoline on about 30% of their pumps

some (ex Jet/Jiffy ) PTT, Susco, and Petronas stations also sell 95 Benzin

according to a BKK Post story Caltex sells 3 million liters 95 benzin / month and they have no plans to quit

[billd766]

don't use gasohol if you can avoid it

will shorten life of all rubber and plastic parts in the fuel system

there is one class of polymers(rubber, plastic) which is resistant to polar fluids like Ethanol, brake fluid etc and another group is resistant to non polar fluids like mineral oil

there is no polymer 100% resistant to both polar and non polar fluids

PTT sells 91 gasoline on most stations and Caltex sells 95 gasoline on about 30% of their pumps

some (ex Jet/Jiffy ) PTT, Susco, and Petronas stations also sell 95 Benzin

according to a BKK Post story Caltex sells 3 million liters 95 benzin / month and they have no plans to quit

This is all well and good IF you live in a city or have close access to more than 1 gas station.

Out where I live there are NO gas stations selling non gasohol and if I want to use it in my Honda Phantom I need to either ride 60 km to Khampaeng Phet or the route 1 which is a 120 km round trip which negates any saving, or I need to buy a couple of 200 litre barrels and use 1 to fill the other as my very own gas station.

Of course I would need my pickup truck and several strong bodies and I would still have to make the 120 km return trip.

I would then have a gas bill of 7,000 baht plus the diesel for the truck say another 360 baht.

[Garry]

This is from first hand experience. If you bike (or car for that matter) was never designed to use any blend of alcohol/gasohol then I would recommend you not use it. I have used 95 Gasohol in my Ducati and even though the bike runs fine on the mixture, my rubber fuel lines from the fuel tank are getting a crystal type deposit on the outside surface. I put this down to the porosity of the rubber hoses and them not be alcohol resistant. Though in Thailand I am between a rock & a hard place when it comes to fuel choice. I am currently trying Benzine 91 to if the problem is not as severe with the 95. I am planning on getting alcohol resistant hoses for my internal & external fuel lines plus O rings to suite.

don't use gasohol if you can avoid it

will shorten life of all rubber and plastic parts in the fuel system

there is one class of polymers(rubber, plastic) which is resistant to polar fluids like Ethanol, brake fluid etc and another group is resistant to non polar fluids like mineral oil

there is no polymer 100% resistant to both polar and non polar fluids

PTT sells 91 gasoline on most stations and Caltex sells 95 gasoline on about 30% of their pumps

some (ex Jet/Jiffy ) PTT, Susco, and Petronas stations also sell 95 Benzin

according to a BKK Post story Caltex sells 3 million liters 95 benzin / month and they have no plans to quit

This is all well and good IF you live in a city or have close access to more than 1 gas station.

Out where I live there are NO gas stations selling non gasohol and if I want to use it in my Honda Phantom I need to either ride 60 km to Khampaeng Phet or the route 1 which is a 120 km round trip which negates any saving, or I need to buy a couple of 200 litre barrels and use 1 to fill the other as my very own gas station.

Of course I would need my pickup truck and several strong bodies and I would still have to make the 120 km return trip.

I would then have a gas bill of 7,000 baht plus the diesel for the truck say another 360 baht.

Same here, nice to have convenience but some locations you will be stuck for choice. Once I can source the material suppliers I'll post it up. I'm also looking at the big auto/bike companies in Thailand who sell vehicles designed to run on Gasahol and order equivalent hoses and o rings

[sirhollyBKK]

here is a list of caltex stations selling real 95

http://www.caltex.com/th/th/documents/stationList.pdf

it's in thai but with GPS coordinates, zip codes and Phone numbers

admitted out in the pampa it hard or impossible to get

[Garry]

here is a list of caltex stations selling real 95

http://www.caltex.co...stationList.pdf

it's in thai but with GPS coordinates, zip codes and Phone numbers

admitted out in the pampa it hard or impossible to get

Nice one, I will get my wife to check out how many Caltex's we have up here around Chiang Rai

[sirhollyBKK]

BTW, why don't you guys in the provinces try this recipe I found on US websites:

mix gasohol 95 with 10% water shake or stir well let it sit for 24 h and the water and alcohol mix will drop to the floor

the rest is about 93.5 octane fuel

easy to test if it works:

if the mixture on the floor is about double the amount of water you added it worked if not, it didn't work

as I live in a condo it's a bit difficult for me to try

I think it should work because I read somwhere alcohol and water mix easily but fuel and alcohol dont

they have to add an emulsifier to keep the gasohol mix stable

[Garry]

BTW, why don't you guys in the provinces try this recipe I found on US websites:

mix gasohol 95 with 10% water shake or stir well let it sit for 24 h and the water and alcohol mix will drop to the floor

the rest is about 93.5 octane fuel

easy to test if it works:

if the mixture on the floor is about double the amount of water you added it worked if not, it didn't work

as I live in a condo it's a bit difficult for me to try

I think it should work because I read somwhere alcohol and water mix easily but fuel and alcohol dont

they have to add an emulsifier to keep the gasohol mix stable

Not that desperate yet, thanks anyway but I'll keep going on with my planned compromises :jap:

[Kilgore Trout]

Hi,

I asked this very question whilst picking up my new Versys a week or so ago. They basically told me that the bike will run on any of the grades of fuel available (gasohol etc.) in Thailand without any problem. LPG could be a challenge, I suppose...

However, their opinion was that 91 Red was the best option for the V. The sticker on my tank also says 91 octane.

I've only run it on 91 Red so far, so I can't comment on how well (or otherwise) it runs on any other grade of fuel.

My thinking was that 91 Red would be the better option for the running in period at least and I would probably stick with that and only use gasohol when I couldn't get anything else.

I ran old chopper bikes prior to the V and one mechanic recommended not using gasohol but his reasons seemed a bit suspect - so I won't mention them here. If your bike has a sticker recommending gasohol on it, then that would be a different matter though.

Which is better for your bike is a tricky question. I would say that going with the manufacturers recommendation would be safest if you are in any doubt. You don't say what make/model your bike is but if you can contact your dealer or the manufacturer that would get you the closest to a definitive answer.

Hope that helps a bit! Maybe other forum members have more practical experience with their bikes than I and can advise too.

Best Regards

P

My bike (Honda Sonic) reccommends either benzine 91 or gasohol 91. I assume that the plastic bits etc. are designed to handle it but I wonder if benzine is better for the bike. I almost always use benzine unless I am empty somewhere it is not sold.

[ThePedroDB]

I assume that the plastic bits etc. are designed to handle it...

@Kilgore Trout. Sadly, as they say, "assumption is the Mother of all F##k Ups". Kawa told me OK with all fuel types but recommended "Gow Neung Deang". Garry has seen crystallisation on pipe rubbers. Others have provided evidence to suggest that Gasohol is bad for plastics & rubbers. Where would you vote?

I suspect manufacturers are happy to say the engine can tolerate both fuels but will also be delighted if you'd like to bring your vehicle to them for a complete re-fit of rubbers/plastics in the fuel system etc. Do you think that'll be covered by manufacturers warranty? Call me a cynic, if you will, but I don't..

It's a total bummer for those with access to only Gasohol fuel - but for the rest of Thailand I'd have to vote for staying clear of Gasohol apart from in emergency situations.

As usual, Laydeez & Gentlemen, the choice is yours...

Best Regards

P

[PC800]

I bought a new Honda Wave 125i a few months back, and the book said 91 and 95 gasohol are okay, along with 91 benzine. 2,000km and now it has started to knock. I had been using 91 gasohol. I brought to dealer yesterday in Pattaya, and they said DO NOT USE 91 gasohol. I said HONDA says it's okay. Who is right? Then the sales manager showed me what they are doing. With a felt tip marker, they are crossing out the 91 gasohol acceptability sticker under the seat, AND writing "95" on the gas filler cap. How tacky can you get? And this is Pattaya's largest Honda dealer.

So, if Honda said I could use 91 gasohol when I bought it, and now they are saying DO NOT USE, I want a rebate. Of course if I ride 10,000 km per year, the extra cost of 95 gasohol is only 300 baht per year. So, not the cost, but the principle. Did I buy a BETA version motorbike? Don't they test such things in "research and development" before they sell them?

I am writing to Honda, but I don't expect them to give me a new motorbike. This is Thailand, after all.

[PC800]

My problem was not fuel at all. I called up AP Honda to explain that my dealer said DON'T USE 91 GASOHOL. They actually sent a technician out from Bangkok to look at my motorbike. They found the problem. A loose chain cover that was vibrating and making a clicking/tapping sound when decelerating. It probably was making the noise all the time, but when going at speed, other sounds drowned it out. Anyway, was very impressed that they cared enough about one buyer, and made a trip to Pattaya to help. I'll continue to be a Happy Honda Rider. I was told by the tech guy from AP Honda that 91 or 95 gasohol is fine, or 91 benzine.

[amexpat]

My problem was not fuel at all. I called up AP Honda to explain that my dealer said DON'T USE 91 GASOHOL. They actually sent a technician out from Bangkok to look at my motorbike. They found the problem. A loose chain cover that was vibrating and making a clicking/tapping sound when decelerating. It probably was making the noise all the time, but when going at speed, other sounds drowned it out. Anyway, was very impressed that they cared enough about one buyer, and made a trip to Pattaya to help. I'll continue to be a Happy Honda Rider. I was told by the tech guy from AP Honda that 91 or 95 gasohol is fine, or 91 benzine.

That sounds like Honda - taking care of their reputation.

I've been using benzene, gasohol 91 and mostly gasohol 95 in my Air Blade for 3 years / 25K km with no problem. I don't notice any difference at all.