Thai Yellow Shirts Rally Against Government

[Siripon]

The yellow shirts are a dying force, their numbers are miserable, I can't recall any New Politics Party candidates running in the by- elections on December 12 either, but I could be wrong.

[rubl]

How absurd - everyone knows the Army is in charge Anhisit called for action many, many times and could do nothing until his masters decided to do something for their own reasons.

I don't know, I know others who don't know. I only know that absurdly some posters here simply state so. For some just to state seems all the proof needed

I know you don't know - so go check the facts :jap:

Facts ? On what you simply state? Mission impossible I'm afraid. Shouldn't bother you, please state a few more of those facts everybody knows

[rubl]

begin removed (problem with too many (/quote) without the matching (quote)

Oh right... got it now... so the USA President say's 'hey chaps I want to fight a war in Iraq but I have delegated security to you - will it be ok please'? rather than 'I have made an executive decision on behalf of the nation - tell me how to get it done'

Wrong, you still didn't get it. 'Tell me how to get it done and then do it'

[jdinasia]

No, I don't think the military is "in charge" though I would not argue a stance that they still have too much power. The military (like the reds) is not an entirely cohesive group. That is why Thaksin wanted the Dems out before October, which is why the redshirt rally was timed the way it was.

Afarang brings up a point that should be touched on somewhere. Why was Abhisit staying at 1st Regiment? As a puppet the way Afarang suggests? or was the threat against the civilian government by Sae Daeng's Ronin so credible that there was no other safe option at the time? If Abhisit was toeing the party-line and not suggesting things that actually work against the "elite" and the military, then I would agree with the statements made by some people here. Since, however, he is actually working to get things done and make some changes. I would have to say that overall ... the folks that have bought into the red party-line are the puppets

How absurd - everyone knows the Army is in charge Anhisit called for action many, many times and could do nothing until his masters decided to do something for their own reasons.

"everyone knows"

Sorry CMF but again you are wrong. Everyone doesn't know. You suggest things that even you don't "know". You think you understand Thailand and what is happeneing here, then you compare it to the labor union movements in Europe, or state "they've won" about the reds when Abhisit said that he'd call an early election. These 2 simple things show that your grasp of what is happening in Thailand is so far from complete that it can't even be considered as a hypothesis for further discussion.

The military and the government moved slowly and methodically when dealing with the armed inurrectionists that took a major section of the commercial heart of BKK as a hostage March-May of this year. The military didn't just jump in guns blazing and tried to minimize casualties. When they did move in they certainly didn't mow down protesters the way people have suggested. They didn't open fire into the masses. They quite successfully got the most militant of the reds to push their borders out and to attack the military. Does it suck that people were killed? Yes. Do we know who did all the killing? No. Were the reds armed with military ordinance? Yes.

Take a look at the new thread about the 5 charged .....

[yellow1red1]

The yellow shirts are a dying force, their numbers are miserable, I can't recall any New Politics Party candidates running in the by- elections on December 12 either, but I could be wrong.

down and out? they still have this ace, or is it a Joker up their sleeve.

BANGKOK, Sep 1, 2008 (IPS) - The tense political drama playing out in the Thai capital that has pitted anti-government protestors against a democratically elected dispensation is threatening this relatively prosperous South-east Asian country with anarchy.

Sign of such a shift was evident over the weekend as the anti-government movement, which calls itself the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), toughened its rhetoric, threatening more chaos if the government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej does not resign.

Targeting the Thai economy was also an option for the PAD, which has sympathisers drawn from affluent bankers, middle-class urbanites, conservative bureaucrats and the old-moneyed elite. ''We can get the rich people supporting us to withdraw money from banks at a particular time,'' Sondhi declared. ''The whole bloody financial system will come down.''

<<< would that not be called either A. insanity or B, if serious Treason?

EDIT BTW the TOTAL of Thais who admit to being a red or a yellow member/supporter in anonomous polling is less than 20% total,

but as Asiawatcher said they are the rats &lt;deleted&gt; who are running the show, and other Gangsters too , as well,,, it's NOT just the reds and yellows after their place at the pig trough!

There ARE bullies in the playground it is that SIMPLE!

Who could stop it???????????????

Edited November 24, 2010 by yellow1red1

[ChiangMaiFun]

No, I don't think the military is "in charge" though I would not argue a stance that they still have too much power. The military (like the reds) is not an entirely cohesive group. That is why Thaksin wanted the Dems out before October, which is why the redshirt rally was timed the way it was.

Afarang brings up a point that should be touched on somewhere. Why was Abhisit staying at 1st Regiment? As a puppet the way Afarang suggests? or was the threat against the civilian government by Sae Daeng's Ronin so credible that there was no other safe option at the time? If Abhisit was toeing the party-line and not suggesting things that actually work against the "elite" and the military, then I would agree with the statements made by some people here. Since, however, he is actually working to get things done and make some changes. I would have to say that overall ... the folks that have bought into the red party-line are the puppets

How absurd - everyone knows the Army is in charge Anhisit called for action many, many times and could do nothing until his masters decided to do something for their own reasons.

"everyone knows"

Sorry CMF but again you are wrong. Everyone doesn't know. You suggest things that even you don't "know". You think you understand Thailand and what is happeneing here, then you compare it to the labor union movements in Europe, or state "they've won" about the reds when Abhisit said that he'd call an early election. These 2 simple things show that your grasp of what is happening in Thailand is so far from complete that it can't even be considered as a hypothesis for further discussion.

The military and the government moved slowly and methodically when dealing with the armed inurrectionists that took a major section of the commercial heart of BKK as a hostage March-May of this year. The military didn't just jump in guns blazing and tried to minimize casualties. When they did move in they certainly didn't mow down protesters the way people have suggested. They didn't open fire into the masses. They quite successfully got the most militant of the reds to push their borders out and to attack the military. Does it suck that people were killed? Yes. Do we know who did all the killing? No. Were the reds armed with military ordinance? Yes.

Take a look at the new thread about the 5 charged .....

well.. yes they has 'won' at that stage then stupdily (read my threads after where I made this point quite emphatically) threw it all away! Abihsit had caved in - game over - only there stupid strategy caused them to lose - yes lose they did and I admit it and now Abihsit clings to power and will delay the election - ask yourself why? I have also, and you well know it, condemmed any violence.

I do, and make no excuse JD, site the broader, cultural, issues which I believe will lead to change.

[rubl]

No, I don't think the military is "in charge" though I would not argue a stance that they still have too much power. The military (like the reds) is not an entirely cohesive group. That is why Thaksin wanted the Dems out before October, which is why the redshirt rally was timed the way it was.

Afarang brings up a point that should be touched on somewhere. Why was Abhisit staying at 1st Regiment? As a puppet the way Afarang suggests? or was the threat against the civilian government by Sae Daeng's Ronin so credible that there was no other safe option at the time? If Abhisit was toeing the party-line and not suggesting things that actually work against the "elite" and the military, then I would agree with the statements made by some people here. Since, however, he is actually working to get things done and make some changes. I would have to say that overall ... the folks that have bought into the red party-line are the puppets

How absurd - everyone knows the Army is in charge Anhisit called for action many, many times and could do nothing until his masters decided to do something for their own reasons.

"everyone knows"

Sorry CMF but again you are wrong. Everyone doesn't know. You suggest things that even you don't "know". You think you understand Thailand and what is happeneing here, then you compare it to the labor union movements in Europe, or state "they've won" about the reds when Abhisit said that he'd call an early election. These 2 simple things show that your grasp of what is happening in Thailand is so far from complete that it can't even be considered as a hypothesis for further discussion.

The military and the government moved slowly and methodically when dealing with the armed inurrectionists that took a major section of the commercial heart of BKK as a hostage March-May of this year. The military didn't just jump in guns blazing and tried to minimize casualties. When they did move in they certainly didn't mow down protesters the way people have suggested. They didn't open fire into the masses. They quite successfully got the most militant of the reds to push their borders out and to attack the military. Does it suck that people were killed? Yes. Do we know who did all the killing? No. Were the reds armed with military ordinance? Yes.

Take a look at the new thread about the 5 charged .....

well.. yes they has 'won' at that stage then stupdily (read my threads after where I made this point quite emphatically) threw it all away! Abihsit had caved in - game over - only there stupid strategy caused them to lose - yes lose they did and I admit it and now Abihsit clings to power and will delay the election - ask yourself why? I have also, and you well know it, condemmed any violence.

I do, and make no excuse JD, site the broader, cultural, issues which I believe will lead to change.

'clings to power and will delay the election' ? The new general election will be December 2011 or as much earlier as made necessary. Only when elections would be postponed to AFTER December 2011 you could correctly say 'cling to power' and even add 'illegally' to it.

Edited November 24, 2010 by rubl

[Thai at Heart]

begin removed (problem with too many (/quote) without the matching (quote)

Oh right... got it now... so the USA President say's 'hey chaps I want to fight a war in Iraq but I have delegated security to you - will it be ok please'? rather than 'I have made an executive decision on behalf of the nation - tell me how to get it done'

Wrong, you still didn't get it. 'Tell me how to get it done and then do it'

To put it into a US/Iraq war, President versus Army, context it would be something more akin to:

Head of the Armed Forces: "We have been watching Saddam for a while and he is ripe for a butt kicking. We have put the plan in place and trust that you wholeheartedly approve of us going over there next week. Not that we want to push your hand or anything, but, after all, this is in the interest of national security".

[jdinasia]

No, I don't think the military is "in charge" though I would not argue a stance that they still have too much power. The military (like the reds) is not an entirely cohesive group. That is why Thaksin wanted the Dems out before October, which is why the redshirt rally was timed the way it was.

Afarang brings up a point that should be touched on somewhere. Why was Abhisit staying at 1st Regiment? As a puppet the way Afarang suggests? or was the threat against the civilian government by Sae Daeng's Ronin so credible that there was no other safe option at the time? If Abhisit was toeing the party-line and not suggesting things that actually work against the "elite" and the military, then I would agree with the statements made by some people here. Since, however, he is actually working to get things done and make some changes. I would have to say that overall ... the folks that have bought into the red party-line are the puppets

How absurd - everyone knows the Army is in charge Anhisit called for action many, many times and could do nothing until his masters decided to do something for their own reasons.

"everyone knows"

Sorry CMF but again you are wrong. Everyone doesn't know. You suggest things that even you don't "know". You think you understand Thailand and what is happeneing here, then you compare it to the labor union movements in Europe, or state "they've won" about the reds when Abhisit said that he'd call an early election. These 2 simple things show that your grasp of what is happening in Thailand is so far from complete that it can't even be considered as a hypothesis for further discussion.

The military and the government moved slowly and methodically when dealing with the armed inurrectionists that took a major section of the commercial heart of BKK as a hostage March-May of this year. The military didn't just jump in guns blazing and tried to minimize casualties. When they did move in they certainly didn't mow down protesters the way people have suggested. They didn't open fire into the masses. They quite successfully got the most militant of the reds to push their borders out and to attack the military. Does it suck that people were killed? Yes. Do we know who did all the killing? No. Were the reds armed with military ordinance? Yes.

Take a look at the new thread about the 5 charged .....

well.. yes they has 'won' at that stage then stupdily (read my threads after where I made this point quite emphatically) threw it all away! Abihsit had caved in - game over - only there stupid strategy caused them to lose - yes lose they did and I admit it and now Abihsit clings to power and will delay the election - ask yourself why? I have also, and you well know it, condemmed any violence.

I do, and make no excuse JD, site the broader, cultural, issues which I believe will lead to change.

CMF ... do I really need to go back to where you were comparing the violence of the reds to the labor union movement in Europe?

Do I really need to go back to when Abhisit came to power and didn't exclude early elections even from the beginning?

I don't have to ask myself "why" the reds turned down the offered elections. The offer was AFTER October 1st and that didn't suit Thaksin's agenda. You see, the whole thing really IS about Thaksin.

I note that you didn't address your "everybody knows" statement .. I am not surprised because it simply isn't true. You keep trying to apply a European model to Thailand and it just isn't there to apply. I think that when you have been in Thailand you may get a better understanding of how things really work here. I could be wrong though

Elections are due by Dec 2011 .... The government in place now still has the coalition with them so there is no "clinging to power" going on at all. There is rightfully representing the constituency of Thai voters that elected the MP's that elected Abhisit. To abandon those people and give in to the demands of terrorists/insurrectionists would be surrendering in the worst possible way. Abhisit has now said that he may speed up elections if the next by-elections come off with no violence.

[RKASA]

Maybe it should read 'convicted criminal Sondhi Limthongkul', I detest this guy but at least he has finally realised that abhist is a damp squib

And Taksin is a ... ?

Not a yellow shirt, not in the country, not at the rally and not part of the subject - but Convicted criminal Sondi Limthongkul is all of those things.

[ChiangMaiFun]

CMF ... do I really need to go back to where you were comparing the violence of the reds to the labor union movement in Europe?

Do I really need to go back to when Abhisit came to power and didn't exclude early elections even from the beginning?

I don't have to ask myself "why" the reds turned down the offered elections. The offer was AFTER October 1st and that didn't suit Thaksin's agenda. You see, the whole thing really IS about Thaksin.

I note that you didn't address your "everybody knows" statement .. I am not surprised because it simply isn't true. You keep trying to apply a European model to Thailand and it just isn't there to apply. I think that when you have been in Thailand you may get a better understanding of how things really work here. I could be wrong though

Elections are due by Dec 2011 .... The government in place now still has the coalition with them so there is no "clinging to power" going on at all. There is rightfully representing the constituency of Thai voters that elected the MP's that elected Abhisit. To abandon those people and give in to the demands of terrorists/insurrectionists would be surrendering in the worst possible way. Abhisit has now said that he may speed up elections if the next by-elections come off with no violence.

Typical of you to twist and turn my viewpoint - I have never, ever condoned violence but have said the broad sweep of change is upon us and it is a cultural paradgm shift - and that is is unstoppable. Nothing to do with Thaksin or red violence - you have missed my point because you have a closed and arrogant mind - and of course YOU are an expert and you always make the post 'personal' try addressing tyhe subject of the thread - I have not forgotten how you try and trick people into getting into trouble with your 'impuning the courts' rants.

[jdinasia]

and I submit that with your limited understanding of Thailand you wouldn't have a clue about whether a paradigm shift was occurring or not.

You still left out any discussion about 'everyone knows" from the post that I replied to. (and impugning the courts is illegal in Thailand)

[ChiangMaiFun]

and I submit that with your limited understanding of Thailand you wouldn't have a clue about whether a paradigm shift was occurring or not.

You still left out any discussion about 'everyone knows" from the post that I replied to. (and impugning the courts is illegal in Thailand)

Maybe but I have studied cultural shift at masters level and may know a little more than you (hard to believe anyone knows more than you of course!). We all know about the censorship here and we don't need fellow posters trying to trip us up thank you - you have done it with others not just me - you are farang although I know you see yourself as pseudo-Thai.

[philw]

and I submit that with your limited understanding of Thailand you wouldn't have a clue about whether a paradigm shift was occurring or not.

You still left out any discussion about 'everyone knows" from the post that I replied to. (and impugning the courts is illegal in Thailand)

Maybe but I have studied cultural shift at masters level and may know a little more than you (hard to believe anyone knows more than you of course!). We all know about the censorship here and we don't need fellow posters trying to trip us up thank you - you have done it with others not just me - you are farang although I know you see yourself as pseudo-Thai.

Well said CMF and could be true.

[Buchholz]

and I submit that with your limited understanding of Thailand you wouldn't have a clue about whether a paradigm shift was occurring or not.

You still left out any discussion about 'everyone knows" from the post that I replied to. (and impugning the courts is illegal in Thailand)

Maybe

could be

possibly

[philw]

and I submit that with your limited understanding of Thailand you wouldn't have a clue about whether a paradigm shift was occurring or not.

You still left out any discussion about 'everyone knows" from the post that I replied to. (and impugning the courts is illegal in Thailand)

Maybe

could be

possibly

Let me revise my opinion, "could be " should be changed to looks to be..............

[jdinasia]

and I submit that with your limited understanding of Thailand you wouldn't have a clue about whether a paradigm shift was occurring or not.

You still left out any discussion about 'everyone knows" from the post that I replied to. (and impugning the courts is illegal in Thailand)

Maybe but I have studied cultural shift at masters level and may know a little more than you (hard to believe anyone knows more than you of course!). We all know about the censorship here and we don't need fellow posters trying to trip us up thank you - you have done it with others not just me - you are farang although I know you see yourself as pseudo-Thai.

LOL...

I don't see myself as Thai at all.

Your concept of a cultural shift (switching up from the use of paradigm?) and your study of it quite likely didn't include Thai culture or even asian cultures. Attempting to apply Western history and ideas to Asian cultures has led to quite a few disastrous mistakes in the past and it is a mistake that you are making now. Will things change in Thailand? Absolutely. Are things changing the way you suggest? Not even close. You are watching a top level power play and trying to underpin it with a grassroots movement. You aren't looking at the 70's or 80 in Thailand (or even the 90's!) to get your reference points. You instead are looking at the trade union movements in Europe.

Playing by the rules for posting isn't "tripping people up" .. it is playing by the rules. You know the rules and agree to be bound by them to post just the same as the rest of us. Don't blame other people for what you post.

You still haven't addressed your "everyone knows" comment. Is it perhaps because you know that it was wrong but just won't say "oooops I made a mistake colored by my own bias".