How About Sin Sod Demands After Marriage

[Nepal4me]

How about this situation. You (oops) get the girl pregnant, she's a good girl (except she did actually have sex), i.e. not a working girl, 26 years old, has a degree, you like her, you have a kid coming so you marry her.

The family is pretty typical, from the south, quite Buddhist, relatively small family. Since she's prego, have a small informal wedding away from the prying eyes of the village. The subject of Sin sod came up once before the wedding, the wife-to-be said, what about 400,000 bt? The husband-to-be said, that's high, what about 200K. End of story, not spoken of again, until now, a month after the wedding, wife says, 'oh yeah, about that sin sod thing, it's now 499,999 and mom wants it tomorrow". Husband says, "sin sod is a strange idea, think no need to pay". Wife says, mom thinks you need to pay.

Anybody here of such a situation? I would love to get a perspective from some of the Thai ladies on the forum. What to do????? Constructive comments would be great. One liners that are clever only to yourself are really not needed as this is a serious request. Thanks

[britmaveric]

The words "stuff it" comes to mind.... the scenario is rubbish. Already married sin sod well is irrelevant now, and well its supposed to be for the married couple so why on earth would you pay errr the mother? I smell a shake down!!!

[Totster]

Strange.... Sin Sod should have been paid at the wedding... it would have needed to be shown (off) at the wedding, it's a major part of the ceremony..

totster

[mrbojangles]

As Brit and Tots say, it's for showing off at the wedding so why more now. Pay this and they'll be creaming money for the rest of your days. Sick Buffalo etc. etc. That money is now needed for the little one on the way......End of

[SiamOne]

yes you should have paid the sinsod at the ceremony. MIND YOU, THEY ASK A LOT!! you must be rich, or they think you are

now, you are having baby, so you need the money for that

you can offer your ma-in-law something though, to keep her quiet, 20K say

your wife should be on your side with this now, so ask her advice. If she still sides with her mum, you better tell her to remember she is married to you.

[Nepal4me]

yes you should have paid the sinsod at the ceremony. MIND YOU, THEY ASK A LOT!!  you must be rich, or they think you are

now, you are having baby, so you need the money for that

you can offer your ma-in-law something though, to keep her quiet, 20K say

your wife should be on your side with this now, so ask her advice. If she still sides with her mum, you better tell her to remember she is married to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The money wasn't paid at the ceremony since the ceremony was very very small. Only immediate famly, nobody to show off to. Actually I am quite well off and my wife is aware of that although I informed her that my net worth is nobody's business but ours, so I made it clear she wasn't to tell her family. Hmmm, I wonder if this slipped out? We are having a baby but if I threw away 500K Bt, it wouldn't change things for me but the issue is more principal than money. I always hear about, pay once and the hand is always out etc. I'll inform her that she's married to me and her allegiance should be as such, but I don't understand Thai culture or logic.

[pnustedt]

The dowry or sinsod is paid at the wedding and is a part of the "giving away of the bride". If the girl is now married then the dowry is no longer due.

If the husband wants to contribute to the family then fine, but it's not a dowry any more.

[Khutan]

I had a discussion with my wife about this, as its common conversation topic. We both agree that, its a try on. The Sin-Son is paid at the wedding. If one wasn't asked for thats bad luck for the parents. In theory its also bad-luck to have the ceremony a second time, so don't fall for that one.

I have seen pregnant girls get married, and a Sin Sod is paid. So if they went for the "Two Chicken Wedding" then that is it - its over.

Another point to consider is your wife wasn't a virgin at her wedding (ok for the obvious reason) but that has a huge effect on the Sin-Sod.

Actually I am quite well off and my wife is aware of that although I informed her that my net worth is nobody's business but ours, so I made it clear she wasn't to tell her family. Hmmm, I wonder if this slipped out?

I would say without a doubt.

You have two problems. The big one is her family. You will always have to maintain a relationship with her family. Clearly they want a "Piece of the action".

My advice, start negotiating, and make it as slow and deliberate as possible. If it takes you two years to come to a number then thats how long it takes. If you toss them 500k now, you will look like an idiot, and they will have their hands in your pocket for the rest of their lives.

I would also start inventing some business problems and tell your wife. Go to the temple and give the monk 500B and ask for a blessing for "Good Luck" in business. That will buy you some time.

But whatever you do, don't submit to their request, you will live long to regret it. Take the position, which is morally correct, they didn't ask for a Sin-Sod at the wedding, and the opportunity is now gone.

[sakaew]

The amount demanded--499,999-- is odd to say the least.

Why not 500,000 baht.

It sounds as if she's needling you

[Dragonman]

yes you should have paid the sinsod at the ceremony. MIND YOU, THEY ASK A LOT!!  you must be rich, or they think you are

now, you are having baby, so you need the money for that

you can offer your ma-in-law something though, to keep her quiet, 20K say

your wife should be on your side with this now, so ask her advice. If she still sides with her mum, you better tell her to remember she is married to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree with this approach. Give 500k and you will never have any peace again.It's a ridiculous amount

[uncle paul]

The amount demanded--499,999-- is odd to say the least.

Why not 500,000 baht.

It sounds as if she's needling you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

tell them u r not the father and u only married her to help her out and therfore they should pay you for being a good man

[SiamOne]

The amount demanded--499,999-- is odd to say the least.

Why not 500,000 baht.

It sounds as if she's needling you

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

tell them u r not the father and u only married her to help her out and therfore they should pay you for being a good man

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you are a bad man Uncle Paul, but it's worth a try!

[TizMe]

Actually I am quite well off and my wife is aware of that although I informed her that my net worth is nobody's business but ours, so I made it clear she wasn't to tell her family.

First mistake.

I'll inform her that she's married to me and her allegiance should be as such.

Second mistake.

Don't go for the hat trick, negotiate "A" payment, but not cash, negotiate that you will buy something that they need, but it should be only about 10% of what they are asking.

[a2396]

Actually I am quite well off and my wife is aware of that although I informed her that my net worth is nobody's business but ours, so I made it clear she wasn't to tell her family.

First mistake.

I'll inform her that she's married to me and her allegiance should be as such.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Second mistake.

Don't go for the hat trick, negotiate "A" payment, but not cash, negotiate that you will buy something that they need, but it should be only about 10% of what they are asking.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[a2396]

I had a similar experience where a small amount was asked from me to "pay for the wedding" - no problem. Then a few months later, I was asked for a "tidy sum" that was used to pay off Mama's house mortgage. This is in addition to monthly stipend that I pay to Mama and my "lovely". What I see most obvious here is a mentality of greed and for them to push it as far as they can, if I let them. At one point I was asked for 3-4 million BHT. I coulden't believe my ears that they were serious. Of course demands for a house, car and legal marriage were soon to follow. Your can imagine what sort of credibility they have created for themselves - ZERO. Other aspects of our relationship further indicate that a major portion of the motivation for our getting together as a couple was money. I can understand some motivation for money is normal, but when, in my mind, the percentages start to get over 50%, it is a corrupted arrangement.

If I were you, I would concentrate on forming a good relationship with your wife and provide for your child and perhaps some nominal amount for her parents. After that, I would put some distance between your marriage as a couple and the rest of the "welfare reciepients" in her family.

[bdenner]

I agree with most of the comments thus far. 'Mair' is touching you up and it won't stop here. A belated 20K to 40K is all you should offer as this is what most Thais pay, here in Northern Isaan. Admittedly I paid 62K but that wasn't cash it was in the form of paying out the mortgage on the family home, the property deeds were placed on the plate as Sin-Son and accepted by the senior family member. One aunt tried to touch me up for 25K after the ceremony but was told in no uncertain terms to ‘&lt;deleted&gt; off’ and that she did, my rage plain to see by all.

[mrbojangles]

My advice, start negotiating, and make it as slow and deliberate as possible. If it takes you two years to come to a number then thats how long it takes. 

I would also start inventing some business problems and tell your wife. Go to the temple and give the monk 500B and ask for a blessing for "Good Luck" in business. That will buy you some time.

Mattnich, you are indeed a cunning fellow. I like it But i ain't ever gonna play Poker with you

[The Skipper]

Not paying somthing on the wedding day is too controversial.

The friends and neighbors must all be talking already...

Major loss of face for Mom, Dad and the Girl.

You already said you had plenty of money and your having a baby with this girl.

Throw them a months salary. It's not gonna kill you.

If they come back later asking for more, then re evaluate your finances, if you can afford it, help them out.

Do some homework. Is the roof leaking, Grandma getting her medicine, Dad have a dependable motorbike, do the kids have books for school, etc.?

Now if they blow it all on whiskey and Poker, cut em off.

Edited August 12, 2005 by The Skipper

[Thaipwriter]

You gotta admire their bared faced cheek at times but for sure not paying or indeed offering to pay something at the wedding was a faux pas for sure.

500K is way over the top, but from what I have read elsewhere 150,000 is about the figure for the girl your describe. bar girls with kids already should never see that kind of sum.

[Nepal4me]

Not paying somthing on the wedding day is too controversial.

The friends and neighbors must all be talking already...

Major loss of face for Mom, Dad and the Girl.

You already said you had plenty of money and your having a baby with this girl.

Throw them a months salary. It's not gonna kill you.

If they come back later asking for more,  then re evaluate your finances, if you can afford it, help them out.

Do some homework. Is the roof leaking, Grandma getting her medicine, Dad have a dependable motorbike, do the kids have books for school, etc.?

Now if they blow it all on whiskey and Poker, cut em off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So your idea is to give them a months salary. Good god man, you must be joking?? That would be a very big number indeed.

Later if I can afford it, give them more??? As mentioned 500K is not a substantial amount, it wouldn't affect me at all financially. I can easily afford to pay more, the point of virtually every other post here is that I should not pay more as the I will become the falang/ATM in the familly.

As far as educating other children in the family, I have no problem doing that and am taking steps of that nature already. This is my new family and I will support them. I just want to ensure I'm doing the right thing and sending the right message.

"Not paying on the wedding day is too contoversial." It was only immediate family as mentioned and it wasn't asked for, so the neighbours would have no idea of our sinsod.

[griser]

It sounds like niether the girl not her parents think you'll go the distance with the kid, my guess is they may be trying to get that big amount to secure the future needs of the baby in case you fly the coop (true or not).

They are going about it the wrong way but my guess is thats what the motivation is.

Greg

[The Skipper]

"I just want to ensure I'm doing the right thing and sending the right message"

Loud and Clear.

What is it with these Farangs?

They act like this Sin Sod is another scam meant just for Farangs.

Even a Thai ditch digger will scrape up enough for a respectable showing on the big day.

At a Hi So wedding the stakes can be a million(usually 999,999bht)

Isn't it the way it's done in Thailand?

If you don't have the cash or can't part with it if you do, don't get married.

[Thaipwriter]

Actually I am quite well off and my wife is aware of that although I informed her that my net worth is nobody's business but ours, so I made it clear she wasn't to tell her family.  Hmmm, I wonder if this slipped out?

Do bears poop in the woods??

I don't understand Thai culture or logic

Welcome to the club!

It sounds as though the family got wind of your financial status after the wedding, the see that they missed their big payday but they still want to collect.

You make no secret of the fact you have got a few quid, so splash it around a bit for the in laws, get the whole village drunk at big party. if you have the money its not a problem.

Learn to say no from that day onwards and you've cracked it

[britmaveric]

"I just want to ensure I'm doing the right thing and sending the right message"

Loud and Clear.

What is it with these Farangs?

They act like this Sin Sod is another scam meant just for Farangs.

Even a Thai ditch digger will scrape up enough for a respectable showing on the big day.

At a Hi So wedding the stakes can be  a million(usually 999,999bht)

Isn't it the way it's done in Thailand?

If you don't have the cash or can't part with it if you do, don't get married.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Absolutely wrong!!! No need to pay anything these days. Course diff if you really want to, but really isnt necessary. FOr you case - Don't drop them a penny - an obvious scam. You do this once you'll be paying all your life. It's not about if you have the dosh or not - its pure simple you are being taken.

[ProThaiExpat]

Do a search using the sin sot word and you will find the previous threads, and there are many, with the same posters saying don't pay, you are being taken, its a scam, blah blah blah and they don't even know your wife or her family. Likewise, you don't know the posters

with this point of view's familiies or how well they get along with their Thai loved ones with this type of attitude.

The previous threads have some wonderful posts from falang who have paid sin sot and relate how wonderful the gift was and what great benefit it rendered them in the long run. My neighbor across the street is paying sin sot by buying a house for mom this year and he has been married two years. I paid iby buying a house for mom t in the third year of the relationship.

Houses for the mom create a permanent big increase in "face" in the village, somehting that keeps reaping benefits for the giver making "merit" for years thereafter.

Edited August 12, 2005 by ProThaiExpat

[Pattaya_Fox]

Well it seems as though the Sin-Sod was brought up by the bride`s parents before the wedding and you failed to negotiate or pay any Sin-Sod.

It is normal and a Thai tradition that the Sin-Sod is paid by the groom`s parents to the bride`s parents at the time of the wedding.

So your wife`s family requested a Sin-Sod and you failed to pay.

Now the problem is having to appease your wife`s parents which will also alleviate the pressure that your wife must be feeling from her parents, apart from as previously mentioned saving of face which may not be so important to you but very important to your wife.

In order to save bad feeling I think that you should have a family meeting and try to sort this out in an amicable way and not run away from the fact that it was you who ignored the request for the Sin-Sod in the first place.

[britmaveric]

Dont think he agreed - seems it was discussed but no agreement was ever made. I guess it comes down in the end as a personal decision, but sinsod is becoming less relevant as years go by. If you want to help her family out then so be it, but def shouldnt be any mention of sinsod at this stage in the game.

[richard10365]

Wife says, mom thinks you need to pay. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just how much are you buying your wife for? I just got married and was offered a house by the parents with land. They want their daughter to be happy and don't want anything from me. I do intend to give, I just can't right now.

It sounds kinda like some people raise kids like others raise crops. When they are ripe and ready to harvest they try to get as much money for their crop as they can.

I know this is custom, but 500,000 is a lot of money. I would wait until the baby is born first. See if the baby even looks like you.

I wonder how much they would ask for if their daughter was going to marry a Thai man?

[Johpa]

The money wasn't paid at the ceremony since the ceremony was very very small.  Only immediate famly, nobody to show off to.  Actually I am quite well off and my wife is aware of that although I informed her that my net worth is nobody's business but ours, so I made it clear she wasn't to tell her family.  Hmmm, I wonder if this slipped out?  We are having a baby but if I threw away 500K Bt, it wouldn't change things for me but the issue is more principal than money.  I always hear about, pay once and the hand is always out etc.  I'll inform her that she's married to me and her allegiance should be as such, but I don't understand Thai culture or logic.

So, you are currently "quite well off."? Then I suggest instead of worrying about sin sod that you wory about protecting your ass and sets and buy yourself out of the marriage. Provide her and the child with a monthly allowance, and minimize your losses now. If you need to inform her that she is married to you then you are already in trouble.

Sorry, but I have seen plenty of instances where guys who once thought of 500k baat as small change fall into dire financial straits a year or two later. Remember, in traditional Thai culture, the women's allegiance is to her family first and your new family second.

[TRIPxCORE]

The subject of Sin sod came up once before the wedding, the wife-to-be said, what about 400,000 bt?  The husband-to-be said, that's high, what about 200K.  End of story, not spoken of again, until now, a month after the wedding, wife says, 'oh yeah, about that sin sod thing, it's now 499,999 and mom wants it tomorrow".  Husband says, "sin sod is a strange idea, think no need to pay".  Wife says, mom thinks you need to pay. 

The Sin-Son is paid at the wedding. If one wasn't asked for thats bad luck for the parents.

Take the position, which is morally correct, they didn't ask for a Sin-Sod at the wedding, and the opportunity is now gone.

Well, according to the original post, the Sin-Sod was talked about informally between the man and wife-to-be. The family was not involved in the discussion at all. So it's difficult to deduce, much of this argument being a large gray area.

Personally, I think the whole dowry custom is bullsh**t but when in Rome you know? I had to pay it, so did pretty much everyone here. I think you'll find that as modern as some of the Thai people want to be nowadays, they will get awfully traditional when they are able to ask for money from someone.