Sweden And Thailand Sign New Gripen Deal

[webfact]

Sweden and Thailand Sign New Gripen Deal

Sweden and Thailand today signed an agreement for the delivery of a further six Gripen fighter aircraft together with one Saab 340 Airborne Early Warning surveillance system and the Swedish RB 15F missile system.

At a ceremony in Stockholm today, the Director General of Sweden’s Defence Materiel Administration, FMV, Gunnar Holmgren and Itthaporn Subhawong, Air Chief Marshal, Commander in Chief of the Royal Thai Air Force, signed an agreement for the delivery of a further six Gripen fighter aircraft together with one Saab 340 Airborne Early Warning surveillance system and the Swedish RB 15F missile system.

This is the second phase of the co-operation between the Kingdom of Sweden and the Kingdom of Thailand, the first phase started with the agreement in February 2008. Today’s agreement consists of six Gripen fighter aircraft of the latest C version together with one Saab 340 Airborne Early Warning surveillance system and the Swedish RB 15F missile system.

In a comment to the agreement the Director General of FMV, Gunnar Holmgren stated:

“I am very pleased that we have been able to conclude the negotiations of phase 2 in a successful way for both parties. The content in phase 2 and phase 1 will give RTAF a very capable air defence together with both surveillance and net work centric operation capability”

The agreement also includes logistic support and training. Delivery of the Gripen aircraft will take place during 2013.

Since 1 August 2010 Sweden has a new authority to promote defense export and benefit Swedish defence and security policies, the Swedish Defense and Security Export Agency (FXM).

In a comment to the agreement the Director General of FXM, Ulf Hammarström stated:

“From FXM I am very pleased to see the co-operation between Sweden and Thailand further strengthened through the new agreement. We look forward to take part in the continuing co-operation between the two countries”

CEO Hakan Buskhe of Saab AB - Swedish aerospace and defense - said the $320 million purchase is further proof of a "strengthening international faith in the Gripen system."

Saab is competing for lucrative contracts to sell Gripen jets to several other countries, including Brazil and India.

Source: http://www.scandasia.com/viewNews.php?news_id=7772&coun_code=se

SCANDASIA

-- 2010-11-24

[Bagwan]

Standard issue for RTAF pilots?    

[EyesWideOpen]

These jet fighter deals are always amazing to me. Let's review neighboring countries that Thailand may need jets to defend itself against......  Burma jet fighters=0    Laos jet fighters=0     Cambodia jet fighters =0    Malaysia has jets, but is unlikely to attack Thailand.......   Besides the King of Thailand in the fifties signed an iron clad defense agreement with America, meaning any country that attacks Thailand will be in a world of hurt.

Wait...a.... second..... Maybe these goofy deals are to enrich some general, while the jets bought slowly corrode away at an airfield somewhere. If so, a pretty sad commentary on the Thai government. A fact lost upon the government here is that their job is to make the lives of Thais better, not enrich the corrupt few with their hands in the public coffers....

[DP25]

Let's review neighboring countries that Thailand may need jets to defend itself against......  Burma jet fighters=0    

Really?

[hammered]

These jet fighter deals are always amazing to me. Let's review neighboring countries that Thailand may need jets to defend itself against......  Burma jet fighters=0    Laos jet fighters=0     Cambodia jet fighters =0    Malaysia has jets, but is unlikely to attack Thailand.......   Besides the King of Thailand in the fifties signed an iron clad defense agreement with America, meaning any country that attacks Thailand will be in a world of hurt.

Wait...a.... second..... Maybe these goofy deals are to enrich some general, while the jets bought slowly corrode away at an airfield somewhere. If so, a pretty sad commentary on the Thai government. A fact lost upon the government here is that their job is to make the lives of Thais better, not enrich the corrupt few with their hands in the public coffers....

Standard operating procedure when Cambodia gets a little upity on the border a few bullets or shells get tossed then Thailand sends a fighter plane along the border or even across and maybe it goes supersonic and makes a boom. Everything returns to calm. If you have a military advantage and you can afford to keep it you do.

Even the UK and France which cant afford a load of the fancy stuff they have are trying to find creative ways of doing so and neither of thsoe countries is going to get attacked by any other state although they do have a habit of using it against far off countries. Similalry the US has a virtual arms race with itself and spends more than almost the whole world put together and yet the wars it gets into are ones where all that flash stuff is utterly useless. Countries the workld over and their armies love a bot of military hardware. At least Thailand in the scare Cambodia game has a use for a little hi-tech stuff.

[random]

they could have bought them off Victor Bout for less than that

[Buchholz]

Let's review neighboring countries that Thailand may need jets to defend itself against......  Burma jet fighters=0    

Really?

shhhh.... you interrupted a good, un-informed rant...

[EyesWideOpen]

Ok, I stand corrected.   It appears at this point the Cambodia can actually get two planes in the air, maybe... Would be great to see dog fights on the Thai Cambo border......

From a military site....

Currently Cambodian has 12 MiG-21s but only 2 are believe to be in flyable condition. (some sourced said all MiGs are ground)

Let's review neighboring countries that Thailand may need jets to defend itself against......  Burma jet fighters=0    

Really?

[whybother]

http://militaryasia.blogspot.com/2010/01/singapore-2010-asian-fighter.html

China is becoming more active. Beijing has exported fighters for several decades - most notably the Chengdu F-7 interceptor and Nanchang A-5 ground attack aircraft to the likes of Bangladesh, Myanmar, Pakistan and Sri Lanka. But it has newer-generation fighters and it is now casting its net wider.

[EyesWideOpen]

dam_n !!  Who knew ?? Apparently even Myanmar can field a few antique Chinese jets !!! Although it would appear that the greatest danger they pose is to people on the ground when they crash...Anyway my point is still valid, that neighboring countries with a few antique and or not flyable jets rotting on a ramp do not constitute a valid air based strike force, and Thailand should not respond with a expenditure of millions of dollars on something that will not be maintained, or be usable in ten years....

YANGON - A CHINESE-MADE fighter jet crashed and caught fire during a training flight in army-ruled Myanmar on Friday, killing the pilot, witnesses said.

The crash was one of at least 10 fatal accidents involving military aircraft in Myanmar since 1999.

The single-seat F-7 supersonic jet crashed at the Mingaladon Airbase in Yangon, Myanmar's biggest city, after the landing gear failed and the pilot was unable to eject, an official at the nearby international airport told Reuters.

   

[DP25]

Ok, I stand corrected.   It appears at this point the Cambodia can actually get two planes in the air, maybe... Would be great to see dog fights on the Thai Cambo border......

From a military site....

Currently Cambodian has 12 MiG-21s but only 2 are believe to be in flyable condition. (some sourced said all MiGs are ground)

I never mentioned Cambodia. That is a Myanmar Air Force Mig 29. They just placed an order for an additional 20 last year, bringing their total up to 32. \

[hansnl]

These jet fighter deals are always amazing to me. Let's review neighboring countries that Thailand may need jets to defend itself against......  Burma jet fighters=0    Laos jet fighters=0     Cambodia jet fighters =0    Malaysia has jets, but is unlikely to attack Thailand.......   Besides the King of Thailand in the fifties signed an iron clad defense agreement with America, meaning any country that attacks Thailand will be in a world of hurt.

Wait...a.... second..... Maybe these goofy deals are to enrich some general, while the jets bought slowly corrode away at an airfield somewhere. If so, a pretty sad commentary on the Thai government. A fact lost upon the government here is that their job is to make the lives of Thais better, not enrich the corrupt few with their hands in the public coffers....

The Gripen ordered by Thailand is the multi-role version.

Which means that also ground support is possible with this "fighter"

[maswov]

Jet fighters can do much more than fight other jet fighters. Yes I am sure the US would come to the aid of Thailand in the event of an attack. Maybe you have heard of Cobra Gold, a military training exercise conducted every year which runs scenarios such as natural disasters, piracy, military threats... These train high level military officers from Thailand and neighboring countries to respond with cooperation amongst each other. The officers need tools such as jets to accomplish heir missions.

[Buchholz]

dam_n !! Who knew ?? Apparently even Myanmar can field a few antique Chinese jets !!! Although it would appear that the greatest danger they pose is to people on the ground when they crash...Anyway my point is still valid, that neighboring countries with a few antique and or not flyable jets rotting on a ramp do not constitute a valid air based strike force, and Thailand should not respond with a expenditure of millions of dollars on something that will not be maintained, or be usable in ten years....

No, your points aren't still valid. They never were. Your initial points have shown you to be un-informed on a matter in which you make a number of glaring mistakes and pie-in-the-sky suppositions.

From the last Gripen thread:

why thailand needs this ?

To replace F-5 planes that are based on 1950's technology.

Given its susceptibility to meet an untoward end due to its ancient age, would you care to volunteer to pilot one?

Edited November 24, 2010 by Buchholz

[hansnl]

These jet fighter deals are always amazing to me. Let's review neighboring countries that Thailand may need jets to defend itself against......  Burma jet fighters=0    Laos jet fighters=0     Cambodia jet fighters =0    Malaysia has jets, but is unlikely to attack Thailand.......   Besides the King of Thailand in the fifties signed an iron clad defense agreement with America, meaning any country that attacks Thailand will be in a world of hurt.

Wait...a.... second..... Maybe these goofy deals are to enrich some general, while the jets bought slowly corrode away at an airfield somewhere. If so, a pretty sad commentary on the Thai government. A fact lost upon the government here is that their job is to make the lives of Thais better, not enrich the corrupt few with their hands in the public coffers....

Standard operating procedure when Cambodia gets a little upity on the border a few bullets or shells get tossed then Thailand sends a fighter plane along the border or even across and maybe it goes supersonic and makes a boom. Everything returns to calm. If you have a military advantage and you can afford to keep it you do.

Even the UK and France which cant afford a load of the fancy stuff they have are trying to find creative ways of doing so and neither of thsoe countries is going to get attacked by any other state although they do have a habit of using it against far off countries. Similalry the US has a virtual arms race with itself and spends more than almost the whole world put together and yet the wars it gets into are ones where all that flash stuff is utterly useless. Countries the workld over and their armies love a bot of military hardware. At least Thailand in the scare Cambodia game has a use for a little hi-tech stuff.

Oh really?

Where did I read this before?

1914-1918

1939-1945

1953

Never say never.

[drift]

Looks like Burma has a few planes and more on order. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myanmar_Air_Force

[whybother]

These jet fighter deals are always amazing to me. Let's review neighboring countries that Thailand may need jets to defend itself against...... Burma jet fighters=0 Laos jet fighters=0 Cambodia jet fighters =0 Malaysia has jets, but is unlikely to attack Thailand....... Besides the King of Thailand in the fifties signed an iron clad defense agreement with America, meaning any country that attacks Thailand will be in a world of hurt.

Wait...a.... second..... Maybe these goofy deals are to enrich some general, while the jets bought slowly corrode away at an airfield somewhere. If so, a pretty sad commentary on the Thai government. A fact lost upon the government here is that their job is to make the lives of Thais better, not enrich the corrupt few with their hands in the public coffers....

Standard operating procedure when Cambodia gets a little upity on the border a few bullets or shells get tossed then Thailand sends a fighter plane along the border or even across and maybe it goes supersonic and makes a boom. Everything returns to calm. If you have a military advantage and you can afford to keep it you do.

Even the UK and France which cant afford a load of the fancy stuff they have are trying to find creative ways of doing so and neither of thsoe countries is going to get attacked by any other state although they do have a habit of using it against far off countries. Similalry the US has a virtual arms race with itself and spends more than almost the whole world put together and yet the wars it gets into are ones where all that flash stuff is utterly useless. Countries the workld over and their armies love a bot of military hardware. At least Thailand in the scare Cambodia game has a use for a little hi-tech stuff.

Oh really?

Where did I read this before?

1914-1918

1939-1945

1953

Never say never.

I think he probably meant "not likely to in the foreseeable future" ... especially since the last time was nearly 60 years ago.

[EyesWideOpen]

You are missing my point entirely. It is the classic issue of guns or butter, meaning for Thai government to spend endless millions of dollars on useless aircraft is absurd. Think observation blimp for southern Thailand....

  If you want to clearly see the future, you need only look at the past. Look at the millions of dollars Thailand spent in the past on the harrier jump jets that are sitting on their aircraft carrier. I believe at this this point not a single aircraft is flyable. THAT is the future for what ever they buy today. 

Meanwhile in Thailand, hundred of people just died because of poor flood control, meaning lack of dams. So it appears that water is a greater danger to Isan people, rather than bombs falling from ground attack aircraft sent from Cambodia. Besides the treaty Thailand signed with America in 1954 makes attack by neighboring countries a moot point.

The United States and Thailand are among the signatories of the 1954 Manila Pact of the former Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO). Article IV(1) of this treaty provides that, in the event of armed attack in the treaty area (which includes Thailand), each member would "act to meet the common danger in accordance with its constitutional processes." Despite the dissolution of the SEATO in 1977, the Manila Pact remains in force and, together with the Thanat-Rusk communiqué of 1962, constitutes the basis of U.S. security commitments to Thailand. 

dam_n !!  Who knew ?? Apparently even Myanmar can field a few antique Chinese jets !!! Although it would appear that the greatest danger they pose is to people on the ground when they crash...Anyway my point is still valid, that neighboring countries with a few antique and or not flyable jets rotting on a ramp do not constitute a valid air based strike force, and Thailand should not respond with a expenditure of millions of dollars on something that will not be maintained, or be usable in ten years....

 

No, your points aren't still valid. They never were. Your initial points have shown you to be un-informed on a matter in which you make a number of glaring mistakes and pie-in-the-sky suppositions.

From the last Gripen thread:

why thailand needs this ?  

To replace F-5 planes that are based on 1950's technology.

Given its susceptibility to meet an untoward end due to its ancient age, would you care to volunteer to pilot one?

[Buchholz]

dam_n !!  Who knew ?? Apparently even Myanmar can field a few antique Chinese jets !!! Although it would appear that the greatest danger they pose is to people on the ground when they crash...Anyway my point is still valid, that neighboring countries with a few antique and or not flyable jets rotting on a ramp do not constitute a valid air based strike force, and Thailand should not respond with a expenditure of millions of dollars on something that will not be maintained, or be usable in ten years....

 

No, your points aren't still valid. They never were. Your initial points have shown you to be un-informed on a matter in which you make a number of glaring mistakes and pie-in-the-sky suppositions.

From the last Gripen thread:

Why Thailand need this?

To replace F-5 planes that are based on 1950's technology.

Given its susceptibility to meet an untoward end due to its ancient age, would you care to volunteer to pilot one?

You are missing my point entirely.

The SEATO Pact from 60 years ago (which coincidentally was when Thailand's current jet, the F-5, was conceived) is not carte blanche for any of the signatories to spend nothing on their own national defense. The USA is militarily stretched to the breaking point and to take on another conflict to protect the SEATO accord could very well not occur.

The point being, Thailand's Royal Air Force pilots are operating antique jets susceptible to crashing. To not replace them with something from this millennium is reckless and thoughtless for the lives of those that have sworn to protect it.

[Pi Sek]

The point being, Thailand's Royal Air Force pilots are operating antique jets susceptible to crashing. To not replace them with something from this millennium is reckless and thoughtless for the lives of those that have sworn to protect it.

Even though I agree with your political stance, I have seen you to be a little bit of an agitator; especially prone to winding up UDD fanatics with items of (sometimes dubious, but still valid) proof. I must confess that I at times find this amusing, to my own discredit. :jap:

However, this above post is very much the voice of reason. The only valid argument against the purchase of new aircraft is, "Do they really need Saab Gripens or would a new model turboprop with a machine gun do?". And even then, it's a not an easy argument to put out.

Having said that...

Think observation blimp for southern Thailand....

... and ...

Meanwhile in Thailand, hundred of people just died because of poor flood control, meaning lack of dams. So it appears that water is a greater danger to Isan people, rather than bombs falling from ground attack aircraft sent from Cambodia.

... are both very good points and show that the "priority" of new airforce fighter jets may have been overstated.

Oh, and remember, the south just got hammered too. Isaan had a few days' notice, in the south it just started and kept going with hardly any prior symptoms, which is why it caught everyone so off-guard. (Just been to Sungai Kolok and a Hat Yai resident from Ayutthaya told me this - by the way, apparently we're in for another downfall 30 Nov until 5 Dec according to the same person, who was advised not to make repairs to her Hat Yai house until after the next storm).

[jayboy]

There are plenty of foreign arm chair military "experts" around in Thailand, usually former non commissioned officers - good at detail, not always so good at the big picture.Anyway just in case there is a military aviation expert (ideally from a Western embassy) around it would be useful to know why the cost of these Swedish Gripen JAS39 jets is said to be twice for Thailand that for other purchasing nations.Any reason for this?

I gather the Thai partner with Gripen for this deal is the same firm that marketed the fabulous GT200 devices.

[DP25]

it would be useful to know why the cost of these Swedish Gripen JAS39 jets is said to be twice for Thailand that for other purchasing nations.Any reason for this?

Umm, because they're not? That "statistic" came from a PTP member who said Thai Gripens were twice the price of Romanian Gripens. Romania didn't buy any Gripens, they bought 2nd hand F-16s.

[housepainter]

Anybody remember when this issue first raised it's head? Inflated prices allowing the generals to slice off around 70% of the purchase for their own pockets.

Of course it was all the Swedes fault. The generals explained how the Swedes offered them a pay for 3 get one deal.

Then a change of Government exposed it all an dthe thing was back burnered for a while. Now, once again the generals have the balls firmly grasped and hence not only are they grippin' but Grippen once again.

A w c'mon, it's only money out of kids mouths, education and hospitals that suffer.

The generals - like all boys - need their toys. And what would Thailand look like without corruption? Things went uphill since Thaksin left. I blame him.

[whybother]

it would be useful to know why the cost of these Swedish Gripen JAS39 jets is said to be twice for Thailand that for other purchasing nations.Any reason for this?

Umm, because they're not? That "statistic" came from a PTP member who said Thai Gripens were twice the price of Romanian Gripens. Romania didn't buy any Gripens, they bought 2nd hand F-16s.

That's unusual for a PTP member to "lie" or for a red supporter to believe it.

[rubl]

A mild case of deja vu:

Even jayboy and I already crossed swords on this topic before:

Read the old topic I suggest before posting all the same stuff again

[philw]

dam_n !!  Who knew ?? Apparently even Myanmar can field a few antique Chinese jets !!! Although it would appear that the greatest danger they pose is to people on the ground when they crash...Anyway my point is still valid, that neighboring countries with a few antique and or not flyable jets rotting on a ramp do not constitute a valid air based strike force, and Thailand should not respond with a expenditure of millions of dollars on something that will not be maintained, or be usable in ten years....

 

No, your points aren't still valid. They never were. Your initial points have shown you to be un-informed on a matter in which you make a number of glaring mistakes and pie-in-the-sky suppositions.

From the last Gripen thread:

Why Thailand need this?

To replace F-5 planes that are based on 1950's technology.

Given its susceptibility to meet an untoward end due to its ancient age, would you care to volunteer to pilot one?

You are missing my point entirely.

The SEATO Pact from 60 years ago (which coincidentally was when Thailand's current jet, the F-5, was conceived) is not carte blanche for any of the signatories to spend nothing on their own national defense. The USA is militarily stretched to the breaking point and to take on another conflict to protect the SEATO accord could very well not occur.

The point being, Thailand's Royal Air Force pilots are operating antique jets susceptible to crashing. To not replace them with something from this millennium is reckless and thoughtless for the lives of those that have sworn to protect it.

Your last sentence is total nonsense baseball fan.

Why are you trying to justify huge and unnecessary military expenditures by a corrupt military in a country where many millions live in poverty ??

[sibeymai]

anyone who thinks the US will honour it's defense pact obligations in SE Asia is living in cloud-cuckoo land, with China on the doorstep.

[SNIPER1810]

Betrayer to its neighbors during WW11! So what is the aircraft used for?

Japanese troops in Thailand coerced the Thai government to let the Japanese use Thai military bases for the invasion of other nations in Southeast Asia and then proceeded overland across the Thai–Malayan border to attack Malaya.

[SNIPER1810]

That was how easy and cheap!

The Japanese forces also used bicycle infantry and light tanks allowing swift movement through the jungle.

[Buchholz]

The point being, Thailand's Royal Air Force pilots are operating antique jets susceptible to crashing. To not replace them with something from this millennium is reckless and thoughtless for the lives of those that have sworn to protect it.

Your last sentence is total nonsense baseball fan.

Tell that to the family members in this but one example of many. Easy to poo-poo expenditures when your life isn't on the line.

Pilot dies in fighter jet crash in north-east Thailand

Dec 23, 2009

Bangkok - An F5E fighter jet crashed on a training flight Wednesday in north-east Thailand, killing the pilot, air force officials said.

Flying Officer Chatchawan Rassamee, the sole pilot of the jet, died in the crash.

Production of F5E fighters, a regular item in the United States Air Force in the 1970s and 1980s, ended in 1987.