Bringing 70K Usd In Cash To Buy Condo

[MattFS218]

http://www.doingbusinessthailand.com/thailand-banking/thailand-bank-foreign-exchange-control-regulations.html

seems to indicate that I CAN bring cash in, declare it at customs and get a FETF.

So thank you all ThaiVisa people who chimed in on my question asking...

"Is this possible? It will save over $300 is wire transfer fees, but more importantly I won't be giving money to crooked Thai banks. Does anyone have any experience doing this? "

Maybe they should start calling this forum ThaiOpinion.com

Edited November 28, 2010 by MattFS218

[Jimi007]

A quick spot check on USD/THB, 30.12 for notes at Super Rich, 30.08 via TT at Bank of Auyudya was the best available. Note: SR rate was 30.07 for fifties, 30.12 for 100's.

http://bankexchanger...et/default.aspx

Nice www site find btw.

It's all about morals. If everyone willingly pays these fees to Thai banks they keep charging them. If enough people do the super rich method, maybe they will realize and lower their fees...but then again...maybe so will robbers

Either way, I wouldn't do it if I was taking a taxi around, or anything like this, but airport-to-airport-to super rich-to bangkok bank is a risk I'm willing to take. Thanks for the help.

Well, I just did a bit of math. The way I see it you would save $65.94 by doing it your way. I looked at the current exchange rate at the above site, then looked at Bangkok Banks New York's fees for me to transfer to my Thai Bangkok Bank account and added in the $3 outside the bank transfer fee from my Bank of America account. I use the internet transfer method every month and I've been doing it for years, it works just fine. See link: Bangkok Bank NY Fees But, I'm in Thailand not in the US, so I guess I'm stuck with paying a little more... And I don't think I would want to carry that much cash with me, even if I was in the US and planning to fly here.

[MattFS218]

Well, I just did a bit of math. The way I see it you would save $65.94 by doing it your way. I looked at the current exchange rate at the above site, then looked at Bangkok Banks New York's fees for me to transfer to my Thai Bangkok Bank account and added in the $3 outside the bank transfer fee from my Bank of America account. I use the internet transfer method every month and I've been doing it for years, it works just fine. See link: Bangkok Bank NY Fees But, I'm in Thailand not in the US, so I guess I'm stuck with paying a little more... And I don't think I would want to carry that much cash with me, even if I was in the US and planning to fly here.

On Sunday SuperRich does not have a larger clearing house they can use to reduce their currency exposure so their spread between buy and sell rates is higher, I assume based on weather they where net buyers/sellers of USD. Banks wouldn't even convert a transfer until Monday so your calculation is is not accurate. Try doing the same calculation at a random time on Monday. When I looked last the difference between the buy rates equated to 0.5% difference, which is like the difference of 15 satang per dollar (ie super rich $100 bill rate is 30.15, bangkok bank TT rate is 30.00).

When you use Bangkok Bank ACH service, there is also a fee for BKK Bank NY intermediary fee, plus buying at the lower Bangkok Bank TT rates.

I will say that the last few times I have transferred money via TT via TMB I was given a better rate than those quoted on their www site. Also if you really want to push pennies (like me) there are times when the ATM/Visa rate trails the real-time transfer rates, so in periods when the USD is dropping, pulling out money via ATM during the weekend (when the rate is last set at the Friday exchange rate) can often yield better results then both super rich and TT transfers--assuming of course your bank fully refunds atm fees and do not charge a foreign transaction fee.

Edited November 28, 2010 by MattFS218

[gregb]

Do you have any evidence that the banks are crooked - this is a serious claim - please provide facts - we would like to know more about this.

Banks participate in the fractional reserve scam and therefore are crooked by definition.

You must provide us facts that fractional reserve banking is not a ponzi scheme that is guaranteed to lead to collapse. There is nothing incorrect about the statement calling all banks crooked. It is simple logic.

Please try and help the poster, rather than simply acting as a cheerleader for an institution (banking) which is nothing more than legalized theft. If you can't help the OP, then please say nothing. Personally, I have no idea if it is possible to get the necessary forms by carrying cash. In a rational world it should be, but in a world that supports fractional reserve banking you can hardly rely on the financial community and the government to act fairly.

[IMA_FARANG]

I asked a question a couple of months ago about bringing in about $30,000 dollars by a bank cashier's check to use to start a bank account in Thailand. The idea was rather ridiculed by some people on this forum.

Well, I did it. I brought a bank cashier's check in to Thailand. I tried to declare it at my entry...Thai customs didn't want to know and didn't care aparently.

I have now opened a bank account and my cashier's check is deposited in it for collection. I'm told that it will be about 30 days wait for collection. No problem, I'm here on a one year multi-entry visa...so waiting a month is no big deal.

Total cost to me so far for the transfer was 303 baht...all that cost in bank charges in Thailand...consisting of fee of 300 baht from the bank and government tax stamp of 3 baht. To be fair, I also had to pay a fee of 500 baht to open the account, and I deposited 1000 baht into my account to open the account...but that would have been true even if I had used cash to open the account.

So far, my idea of using a U.S. bank account cashier's check made out to myself as payee (if there is such a word) seems to have been a good idea.

I do undestand that I will need a letter from my bank confirming that the funds were sent from the U.S. and the date it was credited to my new bank account. Perhaps the bank will want me to pay a fee for that....but if they do, I'm willing to go along with a reasonable fee.

The idea of bringing $30,000 cash from the U.S. to Thailand on my body made me shiver. Instead I carried a bank cashier's check for about that amount in a small envelope on my person.

I think it was a good choice.

Edited November 28, 2010 by IMA_FARANG

[Jimi007]

Well, I just did a bit of math. The way I see it you would save $65.94 by doing it your way. I looked at the current exchange rate at the above site, then looked at Bangkok Banks New York's fees for me to transfer to my Thai Bangkok Bank account and added in the $3 outside the bank transfer fee from my Bank of America account. I use the internet transfer method every month and I've been doing it for years, it works just fine. See link: Bangkok Bank NY Fees But, I'm in Thailand not in the US, so I guess I'm stuck with paying a little more... And I don't think I would want to carry that much cash with me, even if I was in the US and planning to fly here.

On Sunday SuperRich does not have a larger clearing house they can use to reduce their currency exposure so their spread between buy and sell rates is higher, I assume based on weather they where net buyers/sellers of USD. Banks wouldn't even convert a transfer until Monday so your calculation is is not accurate. Try doing the same calculation at a random time on Monday. When I looked last the difference between the buy rates equated to 0.5% difference, which is like the difference of 15 satang per dollar (ie super rich $100 bill rate is 30.15, bangkok bank TT rate is 30.00).

When you use Bangkok Bank ACH service, there is also a fee for BKK Bank NY intermediary fee, plus buying at the lower Bangkok Bank TT rates.

I will say that the last few times I have transferred money via TT via TMB I was given a better rate than those quoted on their www site. Also if you really want to push pennies (like me) there are times when the ATM/Visa rate trails the real-time transfer rates, so in periods when the USD is dropping, pulling out money via ATM during the weekend (when the rate is last set at the Friday exchange rate) can often yield better results then both super rich and TT transfers--assuming of course your bank fully refunds atm fees and do not charge a foreign transaction fee.

You may be correct in the weekend versus weekday rates at super rich, I really don't know, I don't live near Bangkok. But I included a link to Bangkok Bank NY's fees (maximum $20) and their fee in Thailand which is maximum 500 baht. So, it is the least expensive way I have found to get my money here. Anyway, good luck and best wishes for whatever way you decide is best for you...

[old wanderer]

Several years ago I brought $200,000 in cash into Thailand. In the USA you find the customs office outside by the check-in terminals and hand them the US Treasury declaration. At LAX the office is in a little closet size room next to the entry doors. He did not even blink, just stamped my form and I was off. Went through the scanners without a problem in LAX and NRT. No declaration is required on bring money into Thailand.

I had used the same driver for over 8 years, so had him meet me a baggage, and went to the hotel where I put it in a large safety deposit box. Next morning went to Super Rich, haggled a bit over the rate, (as I had all new $100 bills). Went back to the hotel again.

Next day went to Gang Koi land office and paid for (my wife's) land. Simple, no drama, The one million baht bundles were accepted by the seller without counting, and nobody paid much attention in the office that had 30+ people doing transfers. I have a bank also in Gang Koi, so went over and deposited over 1,000,000b with no questions.

I will say this however, I am very comfortable in violent situations, and was prepared to defend myself and my money. I will also say that during the time when I was a pilot in Asia, I carried $100K many times.

For myself I do not need to remove the money from Thailand however.

[MattFS218]

I had used the same driver for over 8 years, so had him meet me a baggage, and went to the hotel where I put it in a large safety deposit box. Next morning went to Super Rich, haggled a bit over the rate, (as I had all new $100 bills). Went back to the hotel again.

I am curious if you where able to get a better rate than the published Super Rich rate for this $200k USD transaction with crisp $100 bills. I think you are suppose to report it to Thai customs if you bring over $20k in cash, but it might be a newly enacted rule in the post-Taksin era. Thanks for sharing your experiences, as now I don't feel like I am crazy .

[mitsubishi]

I've got £20k in Travellers Cheques ready to rock, along with plenty of petty cash.

Get the TCs in the hold and walk throught he rest.

No Hassles

[zorro1]

"went to the hotel where I put it in a large safety deposit box"

200k? shudder, Im assuming it was the marriot or similar?

[patongster]

Foolish idea. Like other posters have said why quibble over such small money in the scheme of things. I took 10k in cash one time and I was edgy enough until I got it in the bank.

[Langsuan Man]

All I can say is if it it going to cost you $300 in wire fees, you need to get a new US Bank. Most charge a flat fee $20 to $35 for the wire, you will pay another flat $15 fee for the Thai "correspondence" bank and more importantly you will have documentation to back up your MANDATORY U.S. Treasury Filing.

In case you are not aware you must fill out Treasury Department Form 90-22.1 every year if you own, or have an interest in, any foreign bank accounts, no matter how short a period of time the money is in a Thai Bank or whether or not you earn interest

[MattFS218]

All I can say is if it it going to cost you $300 in wire fees, you need to get a new US Bank. Most charge a flat fee $20 to $35 for the wire, you will pay another flat $15 fee for the Thai "correspondence" bank and more importantly you will have documentation to back up your MANDATORY U.S. Treasury Filing.

In case you are not aware you must fill out Treasury Department Form 90-22.1 every year if you own, or have an interest in, any foreign bank accounts, no matter how short a period of time the money is in a Thai Bank or whether or not you earn interest

the $300 in additional costs for the wire is not from wire fees, but from the bid/ask spread charged by the major Thai banks. Typically super rich will give you a rate of 30.15 for 100 USD bills compared to a rate of 30.00 for TT USD wire transfers to a Thai bank. Bank of America charges $45 for international wires.

and yes, off topic, but I am very aware of the relevant treasury and IRS filings. It is a disclosure, so there is no need to back it up with a wire transfer receipt. The US government only cares that you declare it, not HOW it was taken abroad.

Although one could make the case FOR the cash/super rich method because I'm not sure the filings are required if you hold THB in cash, rather than a bank account. even if it is required, some people would prefer the super rich method merely for privacy reasons. For the record the treasure forms are ONLY relevant to US citizens, and not other citizens bringing in 70k of USD cash into thailand.

Edited December 1, 2010 by MattFS218

[MattFS218]

Foolish idea. Like other posters have said why quibble over such small money in the scheme of things. I took 10k in cash one time and I was edgy enough until I got it in the bank.

Again, I'm not asking for people's opinion about bringing in $70k cash. I understand that it's a lot of money for some people, and that for some people it's too much of a risk.

I am asking about people who have experience doing it in the past, and if they where able to acquire the proper forms from Thai Customs or Super Rich to purchase a Condo in a foreigners name.

BTW, there is risk in a wire transfer too. You could accidentally write the wrong bank account number, your bank in the US or Thailand could go bankrupt, or accidentally wire it to the wrong bank and loose all your money--it probably happens more than getting robbed for $70k on the airplane or driving to super rich--especially in the past 3 years. I'm not saying it's less risky, but I am staying the idea is not foolish, so if you do have experience bringing large amounts of cash legally to Thailand, please share, otherwise I don't want your opinion.

--matt

[patongster]

What exactly is "super rich" ?

[MattFS218]

What exactly is "super rich" ?

search for superrich bangkok on this forum or in google.

[LindsayBKK]

@30bht you want to change 70K USD?

Edited December 2, 2010 by LindsayBKK

[Langsuan Man]

Since you have obviously made up your mind that your going to save a whopping .15 THB X 70,000 using this cash and carry method and not one person here has done the same, I say go for it, with our best wishes, that you don't leave it in a taxi coming in from the airport

[flying]

@30bht you want to change 70K USD?

@25bht he may look back on it as a good move.

You never know

[ianguygil]

Just to be clear to everybody....

If you are wiring in a large amount, over 50,000 USD or equivalent, you can ask for the Treasury in BBL to assign a preferential rate, one which is better than the street rate shown on our site and at our FX booths. Rather than bringing a bag full of cash, this approach would be more secure, cheaper and definitely better for your back

You really need to arrange this one before you send the money if possible. Please PM me if you need more details. Thanks :jap:

Ian

[Pib]

To the OP: wire the money in. I've used SWIFT to send in a lot more money than $70K to Bangkok Bank when I was buying my home a few years back. Smooth, quick, and secure.

[chiang mai]

Just to be clear to everybody....

If you are wiring in a large amount, over 50,000 USD or equivalent, you can ask for the Treasury in BBL to assign a preferential rate, one which is better than the street rate shown on our site and at our FX booths. Rather than bringing a bag full of cash, this approach would be more secure, cheaper and definitely better for your back

You really need to arrange this one before you send the money if possible. Please PM me if you need more details. Thanks :jap:

Ian

That's good advice, in my experience the threshold for a preferential Treasury Dept rate from BBL or HSBC is much lower, around GBP 12k will do the trick.

[ianguygil]

Just to be clear to everybody....

If you are wiring in a large amount, over 50,000 USD or equivalent, you can ask for the Treasury in BBL to assign a preferential rate, one which is better than the street rate shown on our site and at our FX booths. Rather than bringing a bag full of cash, this approach would be more secure, cheaper and definitely better for your back

You really need to arrange this one before you send the money if possible. Please PM me if you need more details. Thanks :jap:

Ian

That's good advice, in my experience the threshold for a preferential Treasury Dept rate from BBL or HSBC is much lower, around GBP 12k will do the trick.

50,000 USD is our current floor for this. I checked with our head of Global Payments to get the exact number just before I did that post yesterday. But it never hurts to try to a slightly lower number.

Please PM me with any confidential questions. Thanks.

[MattFS218]

Since you have obviously made up your mind that your going to save a whopping .15 THB X 70,000 using this cash and carry method and not one person here has done the same, I say go for it, with our best wishes, that you don't leave it in a taxi coming in from the airport

Actually one person who replied said they brought in $200k. I have also received pm's from a 2 people saying they where bringing in over 30k USD of cash.

Again .15 THB x 70,000 is $350 USD....it's not a small sum for doing this easy activity that maybe takes you an additional hour of work. People do far more work for much less. People cut coupons to save 25 cents, so I don't know why you would make this comment. Do you make over $350/hr working (plus the fees aren't tax deductible, so it's reasonable to assume that unless you make over $500/hr it's still a smart decision to carry cash)?

I am VERY interested tho in these preferential Treasury Rates. Can anyone confirm that they ARE in fact lower and can anyone provide any solid numbers. How much lower? I am sure it varies based on the current situation, but if enough people contribute data points we can have a better idea of the savings....but I am skeptical that calling ahead to arrange a rate is anything more than a simple forward currency contract that locks in a rate. Is there any guarantee that the locked in rate will be BETTER than the actual rate at the time of the transaction? or could it go both ways? I assume I can just call the foreign currency desk at BBL or any other bank to get a quote.

Edited December 14, 2010 by MattFS218

[flying]

I am VERY interested tho in these preferential Treasury Rates. Can anyone confirm that they ARE in fact lower and can anyone provide any solid numbers. How much lower? I am sure it varies based on the current situation, but if enough people contribute data points we can have a better idea of the savings....but I am skeptical that calling ahead to arrange a rate is anything more than a simple forward currency contract that locks in a rate. Is there any guarantee that the locked in rate will be BETTER than the actual rate at the time of the transaction? or could it go both ways? I assume I can just call the foreign currency desk at BBL or any other bank to get a quote.

Why not PM ianguygil like he suggested.

He does work there.

[ianguygil]

Since you have obviously made up your mind that your going to save a whopping .15 THB X 70,000 using this cash and carry method and not one person here has done the same, I say go for it, with our best wishes, that you don't leave it in a taxi coming in from the airport

Actually one person who replied said they brought in $200k. I have also received pm's from a 2 people saying they where bringing in over 30k USD of cash.

Again .15 THB x 70,000 is $350 USD....it's not a small sum for doing this easy activity that maybe takes you an additional hour of work. People do far more work for much less. People cut coupons to save 25 cents, so I don't know why you would make this comment. Do you make over $350/hr working (plus the fees aren't tax deductible, so it's reasonable to assume that unless you make over $500/hr it's still a smart decision to carry cash)?

I am VERY interested tho in these preferential Treasury Rates. Can anyone confirm that they ARE in fact lower and can anyone provide any solid numbers. How much lower? I am sure it varies based on the current situation, but if enough people contribute data points we can have a better idea of the savings....but I am skeptical that calling ahead to arrange a rate is anything more than a simple forward currency contract that locks in a rate. Is there any guarantee that the locked in rate will be BETTER than the actual rate at the time of the transaction? or could it go both ways? I assume I can just call the foreign currency desk at BBL or any other bank to get a quote.

This is one of the major roles a Treasury plays in a bank.

Simply put, it is the difference between the "Retail" rate and the "Wholesale" rate. While the savings may be relatively small in terms of percentage, they add up for large transactions.

The discussion of Spot or Forward is a separate issue. You get a Forward to manage risk. There are no guarantees that the market will not move in the other direction.

If you have a large transaction it will automatically go the a dealer if it is above the limit set for retail transactions. That is so the Bank can monitor their currency positions in each currency and decide on the rates if they are accumulating more than they want relative to the demand they can see in the future. If you want to get a better rate it is best to contact the bank and discuss. But that is really up to you.

I think it would be a HUGE amount of work for people to say what the rate they received was compared to the "Retail" street rate. But good luck if you can get it. But I think you understand that it makes sense that it will be better in general to go Wholesale rather than Retail.

[dmax]

http://www.doingbusi...egulations.html

seems to indicate that I CAN bring cash in, declare it at customs and get a FETF.

So thank you all ThaiVisa people who chimed in on my question asking...

"Is this possible? It will save over $300 is wire transfer fees, but more importantly I won't be giving money to crooked Thai banks. Does anyone have any experience doing this? "

Maybe they should start calling this forum ThaiOpinion.com

fair play to you matt, i second that, too many sado,s and moaning whinging jinny annes on this forum. its full of netativity .