Buying Guesthouse Soi Bukaew, Need Advice

[dmax]

ive llready put 50-00 deposit on guesthouse in soi bukaew, its 70-000 per month, 12 rental rooms but me and wife will take 1 room leaving that 11 rooms, costing me 1,4 million baht allready to put in bedroom furniture, tvs, tables and fridges etc, plus i need pool table, does anyone know the company who rent them out for half the profit ? new rooms on soi bukaew are bound to fetch 700 per night right ? with free internet, dvd player in room, free selection of 300 dvds, free best seller books etc. everything will be new.

how much do kate siree charge for rooms ? would i be full capacity during high season ? i need advice on this kind of thing so any advice whatsoever will be much appreciated, i know ive jumped in but it was under pressure from my wife too, she didnt want to face going back to uk, my child is far happier in thailand too !!!

and decent 2nd hand furniture stores in pattaya ? tried pattaya action s they arent that much cheaper !!

guesthouse is lower end soi bukeaw. ijn low season what would i get for brand new rooms ? ive got kitchen also but i dont think anywhere down there makes good money on food, was thinking of big girl bar downstairs with very small menu/ food for guests only .

alsop wondering will i pull in 30-000 per month from the drink sales ? good big bar with 6-7 girls working ?

thanks in advance guys

[puuchai299]

i need advice on this kind of thing so any advice whatsoever will be much appreciated,A few months business management course for you and the wife might be a good way forward.

[Lancelot]

A small menu is OK but why only sell to guests? Customers drinking there might want a snack too

[lekatai]

If this is a serious enquiry,then you need to take a step back and think very hard about what you are doing.I had a hotel/bar/restaurant in Pattaya,not far from where you are talking about,for 4 years,which I recently sold for what I paid for it.BUT,before I leapt in,I did a lot of market research,and knew the answers to your questions,all before I paid a single baht.It's not clear what you are talking about regarding the deposit,or where exactly is the guesthouse,what is it called,and have you ever run a similar business before.Without more specific details,it's extremely difficult to answer your questions accurately.If you continue in the way you are going,you will lose all your money in a very short time.Sorry to be blunt,but that's the truth

Edited November 27, 2010 by lekatai

[thaibeachlovers]

You don't say if you are intending to rent long time or just for "short timers". That would be important to know.

I currently rent long time near there, and certainly have some opinions as to what is required.

How much experience of mongers in Pattaya do you have, as that will be your client base?

[FarangBuddha]

Edited November 27, 2010 by FarangBuddha

[loong]

It's a simple calculation to work out that if you achieve average occupancy of 30% over the course of the year. 700 Baht per night would just about cover the 70,000 Bt per month rent that you are paying.

35% occupancy may just cover the rent, electricity and 1 staff

40% occupancy may give you a very small profit

I have no idea what you mean by the lower end of Soi Buakhow, which end is that?

Taking into account the very short high season, do you really think that you could maintain a 40% occupancy rate over the whole year? I doubt it.

Earn money from a bar? Well, it is possible, but I have known a few experienced bar owners that have tried in Soi B, luckily they have found a mug to sell to. With no experience and no idea of how to run a business, you will most likely lose money on a bar, the same as most who have tried.

Obviously a typo in the OP. Is that supposed to be 50,000 Baht deposit?

Have you actually paid any money to furnish the rooms yet?

Have you signed a lease?

Oh, and don't forget that should you be lucky enough to actually make a profit, the rent will be increased to make sure that you don't when the lease is renewed.

If all you have paid out so far is 50K deposit, you should give serious consideration to pulling out while your maximimum loss is 50K

[Ohio]

It's a simple calculation to work out that if you achieve average occupancy of 30% over the course of the year. 700 Baht per night would just about cover the 70,000 Bt per month rent that you are paying.

35% occupancy may just cover the rent, electricity and 1 staff

40% occupancy may give you a very small profit

I have no idea what you mean by the lower end of Soi Buakhow, which end is that?

Taking into account the very short high season, do you really think that you could maintain a 40% occupancy rate over the whole year? I doubt it.

Earn money from a bar? Well, it is possible, but I have known a few experienced bar owners that have tried in Soi B, luckily they have found a mug to sell to. With no experience and no idea of how to run a business, you will most likely lose money on a bar, the same as most who have tried.

Obviously a typo in the OP. Is that supposed to be 50,000 Baht deposit?

Have you actually paid any money to furnish the rooms yet?

Have you signed a lease?

Oh, and don't forget that should you be lucky enough to actually make a profit, the rent will be increased to make sure that you don't when the lease is renewed.

If all you have paid out so far is 50K deposit, you should give serious consideration to pulling out while your maximimum loss is 50K

IMHO the above is correct. :- Whatever you have already paid is the max loss you will make if you STOP NOW

[streetlife]

This is very painful reading please listen to loong and Ohio.

[TheWalkingMan]

I wish you luck, but this looks like a losing enterprise as you are asking basic questions after putting down the funds. Like an earlier poster said, if 50k is the amount you are out so far... stop. You need to do more research before the first rent payment is due.

Soi Bukaow is a very competitive area and the only way, in my opinion, to make any money is for the owner to be on all the nightlife boards promoting his shop, having parties, creating a golf association, creating a website and maybe even having a blog discussing what you are going through BEFORE the place opens. That would help to build some anticipation of the opening and maybe get you some customers.

TheWalkingMan

[sscsamui]

if you are renting long term i may be interested in a room.. What size are the rooms and how much per month....

[mark45y]

The Central Pattaya road end is high rent so I assume you mean the South Pattaya road end.

Your best bet is to turn it quick. Get it up and running and sell to a Falang on holiday before the high season is over.

Invite your friends in to drink for free and have the place looking like it is busy.

Get a large cash deposit and get out of town quickly.

[prefabs]

Dmax, sorry to say this but your recent posts all indicate that you are staggering around from crisis to crisis, hoping that a solution can be found to your woes in a flash. Life ain't like that and your timing in this venture seems a little odd. By the time you get up and runnig, High Season will be gone and you will be left with what? As for 700 baht per night, there are many places along that Soi which charge less and still don't get respectable figures.

One thing springs to mind. Friend of mine and his wife bought a bar. He thought the profit/loss situation was well under control, enough to live on. Then he was presented with some very large loan repayments which his wife had conveniently forgot to tell him about. Now he has no bar, no wife, no worries anymore because he buggered off back to UK.

I imagine you are also going to stop drinking so that you may keep an eye on things, some sacrifices must be made.

[jimmybkk]

I agree with others who said a little research and due diligence prior to parting with any funds may not have been a bad idea but if you're determined to go through with it I wish you good luck. I personally know 3 owners of guesthouses in Soi Buakhao - one of them does quite nicely - the other 2 do very nicely. They all have a few things in common that their success can be attributed to.

I don't think you've posted again since your OP so I shan't go into a lengthy list of suggestions based on my friends' experiences here. If you're seriously interested PM me. More than happy to help if I can.

[rgs2001uk]

Never mind the minor details such as have you set up a company to make this purchase, do you have a WP does your mrs have a license to sell alcohol, the numbers dont make sense.

Suggest you find someone who can show you how to do what if scenarios on MS Excel.

To recoup your outlay in a year, 1 400 000/12 = 117 000 per month.

Lease at 70 000 per month.

7 staff at 5 000 per mont = 35 000.

Bills such as elcet and water, say 20 000 per month.

Total so far 242 000 baht.

11 rooms x 700 x 30 = 231 000 baht .

Even if every room was rented out every night for every month you dont have enough income from room rentals.

You now need to rely on bar takings to make up the shortfall of 10 000 baht.

How many 60 baht beers can you hope to sell in a month?

Lets say 30 baht profit per beer x 60 bottles sold per day = 1 800 profit per day x 30 = 54 000 per month - the 10 000 baht shortfall from above, that means you are lucky if you make 44 000 baht per month profit.

The above are just quick calculations, maybe I have got them wrong, but if you were a horse I wouldnt be putting my money on you.

[thaimate]

I hate being negative, but i have two friends who own bars and retaurants ,they scrape by ,i have another friend who lost a fortune ,he now has a nice little room to live in and exists.

i ran a buisness in bkk with a mate for 8 years ,but even before coming to live in Pattaya permanently my wife and i did all our sums to ensure the rest of our days would be comfortable.

cut and run.

[BB1950]

It seems the OP, 'DMAX' is floundering and looking for a quick source of income with no common business sense.

There was another thread started by him "How can I make money in rural Thailand" in the Isaan forum a while back.

See http://www.thaivisa...._1#entry3946074

I wish him luck, but I only see a disaster ahead. As the old saying goes, "You can lead a horse to water, but...."

[SantiSuk]

Its easy enough to do your own research on room rates. Just do what any self-respecting cheap charlie would do and trawl around asking to see rooms.

I think the only way you would make a go of it would be with making the hotel more of a boutique ambience, which means spending a bit more on the rooms but does distinguish you from the monger dorms. Probably only possible if the rooms are say 50sqm or bigger. Go take a look at Pasadena Lodge in soi LK Metro - I reckon they work on 90%+ high season capacity and 50%+ plus low season without doing food or running a bar. Trying to cover all the bases of accommodation and bar-owning and girlie squabbles as a newbie will drive you nuts. Do deals with food providers to bring food in to your own menu if you must do food.

My own preferred requirements for a good hotel in the likes of Pattaya, hunting in what is now the 800-1200 bracket for off-on season, were (in my singleton days)

a good size bed that is not thin and mean - would always be prepared to spend 100 baht extra for King over Queen. Standard double an absolute nono. The teelak has got to have somewhere to roll away from your beery body.

room safe

coffee making facilities [probably a bit stupid as I could bring my own in-cup warmer]

fridge (of course)

clean well-presented bathroom with shower cubicle not the cheap nasty over-the-toilet jobbie

a reasonable power shower that holds a constant water temperature - SB area is poor at this even in better hotels

furniture that is solid and not fall apart

spare plug points

at least one bedside light. Too many monger dorms have all the ambience of a doctors waiting room when you switch on the lights

in room free wi-fi that works (a rarety that the wi-fi works well in all the SB hotels I have ever been in)

a good sized bathroom mirror for the lady

solid curtains that block out most light

preferably good sound insulation

preferably (nowadays) a good size flat screen TV

preferably a balcony even if only out onto the busy street. Good for the lady to smoke and make all her calls to other boyfriends while you are sleeping

I was never too fussed about an inclusive breakfast. If things worked out well you had better things to do (including sleeping) over breakfast and most hotels cannot compete with the 120 baht breakfasts that litter the area and on which you will make no money.

If you do get the luxury of a good clientele base then you can cut out the long term deals for cheap charlies and your weekly rates don't have to be much of a discount either.

Good luck

Try and get hold of the book written by Kevin, formerly of Jasmine Mansion in SB about the trials and tribulations of opening a hotel of about your size and running it. His wife is probably still running JM and may have copies of the book. [That's an example of a hotel that can go worng with spending not enough on maintenance and appearance BTW]

[dmax]

You don't say if you are intending to rent long time or just for "short timers". That would be important to know.

I currently rent long time near there, and certainly have some opinions as to what is required.

How much experience of mongers in Pattaya do you have, as that will be your client base?

new rooms, i expext to rent long term for 10,000 baht per month , quest can pay own electric and water . as i say it has 12 rooms, all brand new furniture, i have a lot of friends who come to pattaya, i can rent long or short term .

can you add any advice ? like if i had 6 girls working how much minimum per week / month i will make profit on drink sales ? the place is directly across from marin place hotel , bottom end soi bukaew , havent given it a name yet.

[ciaociao]

You don't say if you are intending to rent long time or just for "short timers". That would be important to know.

I currently rent long time near there, and certainly have some opinions as to what is required.

How much experience of mongers in Pattaya do you have, as that will be your client base?

new rooms, i expext to rent long term for 10,000 baht per month , quest can pay own electric and water . as i say it has 12 rooms, all brand new furniture, i have a lot of friends who come to pattaya, i can rent long or short term .

can you add any advice ? like if i had 6 girls working how much minimum per week / month i will make profit on drink sales ? the place is directly across from marin place hotel , bottom end soi bukaew , havent given it a name yet.

Do want to lose 50,000bt now or latter??

[dmax]

Its easy enough to do your own research on room rates. Just do what any self-respecting cheap charlie would do and trawl around asking to see rooms.

I think the only way you would make a go of it would be with making the hotel more of a boutique ambience, which means spending a bit more on the rooms but does distinguish you from the monger dorms. Probably only possible if the rooms are say 50sqm or bigger. Go take a look at Pasadena Lodge in soi LK Metro - I reckon they work on 90%+ high season capacity and 50%+ plus low season without doing food or running a bar. Trying to cover all the bases of accommodation and bar-owning and girlie squabbles as a newbie will drive you nuts. Do deals with food providers to bring food in to your own menu if you must do food.

My own preferred requirements for a good hotel in the likes of Pattaya, hunting in what is now the 800-1200 bracket for off-on season, were (in my singleton days)

a good size bed that is not thin and mean - would always be prepared to spend 100 baht extra for King over Queen. Standard double an absolute nono. The teelak has got to have somewhere to roll away from your beery body.

room safe

coffee making facilities [probably a bit stupid as I could bring my own in-cup warmer]

fridge (of course)

clean well-presented bathroom with shower cubicle not the cheap nasty over-the-toilet jobbie

a reasonable power shower that holds a constant water temperature - SB area is poor at this even in better hotels

furniture that is solid and not fall apart

spare plug points

at least one bedside light. Too many monger dorms have all the ambience of a doctors waiting room when you switch on the lights

in room free wi-fi that works (a rarety that the wi-fi works well in all the SB hotels I have ever been in)

a good sized bathroom mirror for the lady

solid curtains that block out most light

preferably good sound insulation

preferably (nowadays) a good size flat screen TV

preferably a balcony even if only out onto the busy street. Good for the lady to smoke and make all her calls to other boyfriends while you are sleeping

I was never too fussed about an inclusive breakfast. If things worked out well you had better things to do (including sleeping) over breakfast and most hotels cannot compete with the 120 baht breakfasts that litter the area and on which you will make no money.

If you do get the luxury of a good clientele base then you can cut out the long term deals for cheap charlies and your weekly rates don't have to be much of a discount either.

Good luck

Try and get hold of the book written by Kevin, formerly of Jasmine Mansion in SB about the trials and tribulations of opening a hotel of about your size and running it. His wife is probably still running JM and may have copies of the book. [That's an example of a hotel that can go worng with spending not enough on maintenance and appearance BTW]

thanks , i will try get hold of that book, my beds and furniture are mid range / price, as i say i have to invest 1-5 mill before i make a single baht, will start off doing some breakfasts in morn then mainly stuff like chips, fish , cornish pasties and pies etc in afternoon and night then if i get at least some people in eating i will employ a better cook and get a better range of food on menu though i know everyone on soi bukaew go to eating houses on diana and chyapoon. i go to seaside myself which you cannot beat for value.

[smokie36]

Dmax I recommend you leave Patters for a week or two...sit on a beach alone for a while and have a think about things.

Good luck whatever you choose to pursue in your life.

:jap:

[pipo1000]

You don't say if you are intending to rent long time or just for "short timers". That would be important to know.

I currently rent long time near there, and certainly have some opinions as to what is required.

How much experience of mongers in Pattaya do you have, as that will be your client base?

new rooms, i expext to rent long term for 10,000 baht per month , quest can pay own electric and water . as i say it has 12 rooms, all brand new furniture, i have a lot of friends who come to pattaya, i can rent long or short term .

can you add any advice ? like if i had 6 girls working how much minimum per week / month i will make profit on drink sales ? the place is directly across from marin place hotel , bottom end soi bukaew , havent given it a name yet.

For that price and less you already can have a room in a hotel with pool.

[SOMCHAISBROTHER]

You are either trolling or taking the piss. Surely no one can be that stupid to ask how much minimum they are going to make on beer sales when they haven't even opened yet?

And how the are you going to get your 30 grand sterling back once you handed the equivalent over in Baht, 30 grand sterling that's a lot of dosh just think how hard its going to be going back to the UK and working and saving 30 grand up again.

Better off going to Cambodia and sticking the lot on roulette red or black, double or nothing.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Rimmer
profanity

[Ohio]

The more I look at this the more I feel

No one is really that moronic in business are they ??

[jori]

You are either trolling or taking the piss. Surely no one can be that stupid to ask how much minimum they are going to make on beer sales when they haven't even opened yet?

does someone answer that?

And how are you going to get your 30 grand sterling back once you handed the equivalent over in Baht, 30 grand sterling that's a lot of dosh just think how hard its going to be going back to the UK and working and saving 30 grand up again.

Better off going to Cambodia and sticking the lot on roulette red or black, double or nothing.

I'm in this boat too,not the beer sales,or buying a whatever down Soi B,but how the hell to get the money back.Could take it piecemeal but would take quite a few trips and always the thought of confiscation

Apart from anything else just take a look down Soi B now,like a ghost town compared to just a couple of years ago and numbers will keep going down and down.Interesting to see the make up of the present tourists too ,Indians,middle eastern and surprise surprise as the was on bus from BKK last week and a crowd of them banging out reggae music ,the Thais sure looked impressed

Seems as though Sharm is the place to be at the moment,closer and cheaper and really being pushed by tourist companies

Edited November 29, 2010 by Rimmer
racist flame

[Tolley]

I agree with a previous poster.

In fact I will go one better and say you have a 50 percent better chance or recouping your money by going to the casino and putting all your money on red or black.

BTW I have two friends who own bars in Soi Boukeaw both have good rooms for rent and cheap prices and both are losing money at the moment.

Caveat Emptor

[prefabs]

The more I look at this the more I feel

No one is really that moronic in business are they ??

Yes. Look at some of his past ideas.

He is asking for advice after the fact. He is blind to all reasonable offers of advice.

He hopes to rely on mates coming on holiday to survive.

He has no idea about drink sales and profits. When we look back his previous posts, he should be an expert in this area

[Rimmer]

One post removed from view, we seem to be getting away from the original questions asked by the poster.

[dmax]

The more I look at this the more I feel

No one is really that moronic in business are they ??