Becoming Expat

[MrMon]

I need advice and help on becoming an expat please.

Advantages, disadvantages.

I have been living in Thailand for almost 5 years now, am married to a Thai, and just recently was issued a work permit.

[whybother]

You originally lived in another country. Now you're living here. My understanding is that makes you an expat. Congratulations. The presentation ceremony takes place next week.

[MrMon]

OK, clearly a misinterpretation of the term expat.

In the eyes of UK authorities including HM tax office I will still be considered an UK resident. I am paid out of UK and pay full UK tax. I was told that in order to stop paying UK tax, I need to become expat. Whether that is the correct term or not maybe you can clarify?

[cardholder]

OK, clearly a misinterpretation of the term expat.

In the eyes of UK authorities including HM tax office I will still be considered an UK resident. I am paid out of UK and pay full UK tax. I was told that in order to stop paying UK tax, I need to become expat. Whether that is the correct term or not maybe you can clarify?

I think you will find that 'whybother' will not have such a quick response to the fuller question.

I imagine that you are seeking to become 'non-resident' for tax purposes. This is something you can do because of the reciprocal tax arrangements with Thailand.

It is a minefield but some good advice will be forthcoming.

Start here with your own research:-

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cnr/faqs_general.htm

[whybother]

OK, clearly a misinterpretation of the term expat.

In the eyes of UK authorities including HM tax office I will still be considered an UK resident. I am paid out of UK and pay full UK tax. I was told that in order to stop paying UK tax, I need to become expat. Whether that is the correct term or not maybe you can clarify?

Not a misinterpretation. Just not enough information.

I don't know about being an expat from the UK for tax purposes, as I am not from the UK, although 2 points - if you are being paid in the UK, won't you need to pay UK tax regardless of where you live? And if you have a work permit, don't you need to be paid in Thailand?

[Mario2008]

Seems you are still registered as living in the UK and need to be considered as living in Thailand. Hope someone can help you with that question.

[phaethon]

OK, clearly a misinterpretation of the term expat.

In the eyes of UK authorities including HM tax office I will still be considered an UK resident. I am paid out of UK and pay full UK tax. I was told that in order to stop paying UK tax, I need to become expat. Whether that is the correct term or not maybe you can clarify?

Yes, expat. literally means (living) outside one's country (of nationality).

It's horribly complicated but basically if you live for more than 6 months (183) of the year overseas then you are deemed to be non-resident. You still pay UK tax on earnings originating in the UK.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ir20.pdf - knock yourself out...

[prefabs]

OK, clearly a misinterpretation of the term expat.

In the eyes of UK authorities including HM tax office I will still be considered an UK resident. I am paid out of UK and pay full UK tax. I was told that in order to stop paying UK tax, I need to become expat. Whether that is the correct term or not maybe you can clarify?

Yes, expat. literally means (living) outside one's country (of nationality).

It's horribly complicated but basically if you live for more than 6 months (183) of the year overseas then you are deemed to be non-resident. You still pay UK tax on earnings originating in the UK.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/pdfs/ir20.pdf - knock yourself out...

I think it is more than 91 days per year in UK and you pay full whack on UK earnings only. Over 4 years, you can have one full year in UK (4 x 91 days ). However, thngs change all the time, so be careful. Make sure you fill in your tax forms every year etc.

[cardholder]

i have friends who do not pay UK tax on their UK occupational pensions.

They have elected to be dealt with under Thai taxation rules.

[Kwasaki]

OK, clearly a misinterpretation of the term expat.

In the eyes of UK authorities including HM tax office I will still be considered an UK resident. I am paid out of UK and pay full UK tax. I was told that in order to stop paying UK tax, I need to become expat. Whether that is the correct term or not maybe you can clarify?

Yeah !! there's still a lack of information here, anyhow my ex-pats 2 bahts worth :-

When I worked abroad many moons ago I was paid in the UK because I worked for the English company that had a contract for work with the country, not for a company in the country I worked in.

So therefore I was was still a UK resident, later I remember it was about 3 or 6 months my tax paid was rebated and charged at a flat rate of 25% instead of the then 33%.

The tax office reply seems that it doesn't know what the situation is of the company that you work for, if that company has a set up in Thailand and employs Thai people then you could work as a person living in Thailand with the correct permits etc you would be termed as an ex-pat.

If the company can only employ you as a employee working for them in Thailand then you remain a UK resident working abroad.

Other points to consider are if you have 30 years UK NI credits you are already eligible for a UK pension. hope that helps.

[whybother]

i have friends who do not pay UK tax on their UK occupational pensions.

They have elected to be dealt with under Thai taxation rules.

Would it be different because they are on pensions, rather than actually employed, as the OP is?

[JurgenG]

I don't know the specific of the U.K. but my understanding based on experience in different countries, is you have to inform as soon as possible your tax office that you're leaving the country and therefore you ask to be exempt of revenue declaration ... They will then explain you what you have to do. It's also important to do the same when your expat contract ends and you're leaving your country of expatriation. Usually in both case they the tax department will ask you to pay your tax in full before leaving. If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

[Forethat]

If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

Which country is this?

[GuestHouse]

OK, clearly a misinterpretation of the term expat.

In the eyes of UK authorities including HM tax office I will still be considered an UK resident. I am paid out of UK and pay full UK tax. I was told that in order to stop paying UK tax, I need to become expat. Whether that is the correct term or not maybe you can clarify?

I suspect that your tax situation is tied up with your employment contract.

As has been pointed out above there is a joint tax agreement between the UK and Thailand - If your point of payment is the UK you usually have to pay tax in the UK - but you will be eligible for tax relief on certain savings, pension payments etc.

[Forethat]

If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

Which country is this?

JurgenG, which country?

[Forethat]

If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

Which country is this?

JurgenG, which country?

JurgenG, which country?

[JurgenG]

Depeche Mode had their own personal Jesus.

I've my own personal stalker

Will I get rich if I make a song about it ?

My own personal Stalker

Feeling's unknown and you're all alone

Flesh and bone by the telephone

Take second best

Put me to the test

Things on your chest

You need to confess

I will deliver

You know I'm a forgiver

Reach out and touch faith

The good thing with the ignore list is he disappears as soon as I sign in

[Forethat]

I cant see the problem here; you claim that there is a country which will have you arrested unless you have reported that your generating income in another country.

I dont see why you feel "stalked" if I ask you to give more information regarding this? I am probably not the only one wondering about this - presumably every other "expat" would want to know if they face an arrest when they return to their native country.

But you are not going to tell us..? Why, if I may ask?

[cardholder]

i have friends who do not pay UK tax on their UK occupational pensions.

They have elected to be dealt with under Thai taxation rules.

Would it be different because they are on pensions, rather than actually employed, as the OP is?

I think it would depend on personal circumstances i.e. no ties to the UK and the usual residence vs domicile questions.

Both are living permanently in Thailand, neither intend to back. There are no assets in the UK apart from the bank account that receives the pension payments. One friend works offshore, lives in Thailand when not working and is paid offshore - he may visit the UK for a few weeks every 2 years. He is clearly non-resident for tax purposes.

I think GH has probably covered the employment situation but there is no reason why you cannot elect to be taxed by THai rules under the treaty. I am also fairly sure that you will not get 2 answers the same from the tax office !

[Forethat]

I've earlier pointed what people perceive as being signs of an incredibly rude and unsightly nature of personality is when someone points out that they are wrong. JurgenG takes it to a completely new level by accusing people of being "stalkers". Last time he called me "idiot" and "schmuck" – personally I find it hilarious and I urge the moderators to allow JurgenGs posts to remain since it shows the true nature of a person.

JurgenG, not that it matters, but I feel you should review some of your posts and think about your behavior when someone asks a valid question to one of your posts – in this case you state that one can be arrested at arrival in one's native country if one fail to report the departure from the country and are generating income abroad – I simply asked which country it is. For those of you who have met me in private – and know what I do for a living – it is probably not hard to figure out why I am asking.

It becomes even weirder when you admit to have read the post but refuse to answer.

I interpret your silence that there is no country which enforces a law in this way (but I still urge you to tell us which one it is if there is one, I am genuinely interested). In case your statement is just made up, I reckon the next step for you, JurgenG, is to learn how to apologize to all of them you have mislead with your incorrect information – or simply stop making incorrect and untrue statements - though I won't hold my breath waiting for that to happen…

[naboo]

I phoned the inland revenue. Told them I lived in Thailand. They asked whether I planned to return to the UK in the next year. I said no. They registered me as non-resident and gave me a refund on the previous years tax I'd paid in the UK.

The downside is I'm not immediately entitled to benefits or NHS care on my return, until I prove I have returned with an intent to stay (may be as simple as phoning them up and saying "I'm back!" May not. I guess I'll look into it if I want to return.

edit: Just remembered, there was a form I had to fill in for the tax refund.

[mccw]

No more than 90 days a year in uk and you don't have to pay tax.

[mccw]

(my father is a corporate accounting consultant. Doesn't stay in any country long enough to be deemed resident. Tax free life. Saving easily cover private medical insurance etc.) so I know it to be fact 90days is the rule and no problems.

[ukrules]

The 90 day thing doesn't always work, they are clamping down on this kind of thing : http://www.lowtax.net/lowtax/html/offon/uk/uktax.html

[PattayaParent]

Your advantage of being an expat (non-resident or not ordinarily resident for tax purposes) is that you can stop paying tax in UK if your job does not involve you doing any work in UK and can elect to pay tax in your country of residence which in this case is Thailand. Your company should advise tha tax office that you are employed overseas.

You will still be required to pay NI contributions in UK for the 1st year you are overseas but after that you can opt out.

It's all going to depend on how long you will be overseas for and whether you ever intend to return to live in UK and what your salary is as to whether it's cheaper to pay the UK tax or Thai tax.

I've hears that some companies will declare a lower salary to the Thai tax authorities to reduce the tax liability.

Edit: just noticed that you've lived in Thailand for 5 years already, you should already be none resident UK and not have to pay tax there but choose to pay in Thailand instead.

[PattayaParent]

I phoned the inland revenue. Told them I lived in Thailand. They asked whether I planned to return to the UK in the next year. I said no. They registered me as non-resident and gave me a refund on the previous years tax I'd paid in the UK.

The downside is I'm not immediately entitled to benefits or NHS care on my return, until I prove I have returned with an intent to stay (may be as simple as phoning them up and saying "I'm back!" May not. I guess I'll look into it if I want to return.

edit: Just remembered, there was a form I had to fill in for the tax refund.

Almost, there's a form to fill in to tell them you're back.

[Forethat]

If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

Which country is this?

JurgenG, which country?

JurgenG, which country?

JurgenG, which country?

It doesn't go away, trust me.

[Forethat]

I don't know the specific of the U.K. but my understanding based on experience in different countries, is you have to inform as soon as possible your tax office that you're leaving the country and therefore you ask to be exempt of revenue declaration ... They will then explain you what you have to do. It's also important to do the same when your expat contract ends and you're leaving your country of expatriation. Usually in both case they the tax department will ask you to pay your tax in full before leaving. If you don't do it, you may be arrested at the border next time you visit the country, even for a short stop over.

One would have thought this kind of statement would raise the interest of more than one TV member.

In conclusion, JurgenG claims that there's a country which will have you arrested at re-entry in case you failed to declare your departure and/or filed to pay your tax in full. Due to my profession I have a certain interest in this area and I would like to investigate this further. So for this reason I cant seem to understand why JurgenG refuses to give information as to which country he is talking about.

Thailand?

Germany?

UK?

JurgenG, which country is enforcing this law?

[PattayaParent]

^some countries require you to have a tax declaration when you are leaving, even on a tourist visa if you have been there for some time. However it would be a case of you can't leave without it, not the scenario JurgenG describes.

[MikeCNX]

Do hire a reputable tax lawyer. It is WELL worth the few EUR/GBP/USD or whatever. He/she should also be able to help you with previous years....

Really!