Killing The Golden Goose

F1fanatic · November 30, 2010

I am not going to copy Tonto21's post but I shall certainly endorse it.

It is getting close to the secret of survival in Thailand. Western emotions will swing from indescribeable love for their partner (and Thailand) to abject frustration (when you realise that after 3 years they still only listen to/understand less than 50% of what you say) to hatred of everything Thai from the appalling driving standards, building standards,inability to admit 'fault' for the smallest of errors and the inability to get the simplest of food orders right.

The ability to partly understand what is happening, and to deal with your position in the Thai food chain, is paramount to survival and enjoyment.

In this case, I agree that the transaction with the SIL is history and must be buried without trace. Your wife knows what has happened but she will not favour you in an argument against the family. I really like he get-out option of stalling for time and eventually coming up with a reason by you cannot find the money.

Plan B (which I have also seen used) - is to tell your wife that you will never lend her lazy, good for nothing family one more Satang and if she cannot understand then she can sling her hook. On top of that if she trys to bring any more pathetic attempts to extort money to you she can also p!ss off.

The latter may vent your spleen but would not auger well for the longevity of the relationship.

To answer F1's point it is invariably HOW something is handled irrespective of the result being the same.

Perhaps any relationship where extortion of money is acceptable - would be better off dying?

cardholder · November 30, 2010

I am not going to copy Tonto21's post but I shall certainly endorse it.

It is getting close to the secret of survival in Thailand. Western emotions will swing from indescribeable love for their partner (and Thailand) to abject frustration (when you realise that after 3 years they still only listen to/understand less than 50% of what you say) to hatred of everything Thai from the appalling driving standards, building standards,inability to admit 'fault' for the smallest of errors and the inability to get the simplest of food orders right.

The ability to partly understand what is happening, and to deal with your position in the Thai food chain, is paramount to survival and enjoyment.

In this case, I agree that the transaction with the SIL is history and must be buried without trace. Your wife knows what has happened but she will not favour you in an argument against the family. I really like he get-out option of stalling for time and eventually coming up with a reason by you cannot find the money.

Plan B (which I have also seen used) - is to tell your wife that you will never lend her lazy, good for nothing family one more Satang and if she cannot understand then she can sling her hook. On top of that if she trys to bring any more pathetic attempts to extort money to you she can also p!ss off.

The latter may vent your spleen but would not auger well for the longevity of the relationship.

To answer F1's point it is invariably HOW something is handled irrespective of the result being the same.

Perhaps any relationship where extortion of money is acceptable - would be better off dying?

I think you have missed the point - extortion could be the Western "view". I don't believe for a moment there was any attempt to defraud. This is the Thai way - exhibiting 'typical' irresponsibility with money.

Surely you are aware of this or have experienced it ?

Moonrakers · November 30, 2010

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day

Give a man a fishing rod, you feed him for a lifetime

Give a Thai man a fish, you feed him for a day

Give a Thai man a fishing rod, he sells the rod to buy a fish and a bottle of whiskey. The next day he comes back to ask for another fish

Edited November 30, 2010 by Moonrakers

F1fanatic · November 30, 2010

I am not going to copy Tonto21's post but I shall certainly endorse it.

It is getting close to the secret of survival in Thailand. Western emotions will swing from indescribeable love for their partner (and Thailand) to abject frustration (when you realise that after 3 years they still only listen to/understand less than 50% of what you say) to hatred of everything Thai from the appalling driving standards, building standards,inability to admit 'fault' for the smallest of errors and the inability to get the simplest of food orders right.

The ability to partly understand what is happening, and to deal with your position in the Thai food chain, is paramount to survival and enjoyment.

In this case, I agree that the transaction with the SIL is history and must be buried without trace. Your wife knows what has happened but she will not favour you in an argument against the family. I really like he get-out option of stalling for time and eventually coming up with a reason by you cannot find the money.

Plan B (which I have also seen used) - is to tell your wife that you will never lend her lazy, good for nothing family one more Satang and if she cannot understand then she can sling her hook. On top of that if she trys to bring any more pathetic attempts to extort money to you she can also p!ss off.

The latter may vent your spleen but would not auger well for the longevity of the relationship.

To answer F1's point it is invariably HOW something is handled irrespective of the result being the same.

Perhaps any relationship where extortion of money is acceptable - would be better off dying?

I think you have missed the point - extortion could be the Western "view". I don't believe for a moment there was any attempt to defraud. This is the Thai way - exhibiting 'typical' irresponsibility with money.

Surely you are aware of this or have experienced it ?

If anyone is frightened of telling their partner that they will not give one satang more to their family, then they are experiencing extortion. If the partner leaves because their spouse will not give more money to the family then I say again - the relationship would be better of dying.

ilyelol · November 30, 2010

To answer your questions

1) How can people be so stupid to ruin things for themselves like this when they are in need of funds? Answer: A lot of Thai live on a day to day basis, "a bird in the hand" sort of thing.

2) What makes them think they can screw people over and still expect to have their trust? Is it a big- person-small-person-thing? Answer: No, it's a "you have I want" sort of thing and trust! They don't care about your trust.

3) Would you expect such behavior from a 36-year-old? Answer: This is a trick question…. Yes I would, anywhere in the world, buy especially in Thailand.

I can match this story.

My Thai lady landlord has a mortgage on the house I rent and a small income from Belgium, that's been getting smaller this year (exchange rate).

So she decided to put my rent up by 15% and my neighbors rent up by 15%

We both declined and have given our notice.

If she misses renting either property for 1 month in the next year, she will have less than she started with.

She is also advertising the houses for sale at 50% more than either is worth, and that's if any houses on our estate were selling.

Very short-sighted, financially disastrous behavior. But hey, TIT

PS

I'm with Tonto (puts on mask)

My wife scrounges off everyone, not just me, as do all her family.

My stock answer is, sorry the exchange rate is killing me, can you lend me enough to pay the leccy this month ......

I dont mind overpaying, i usually just let the place go to shit and make him pay for a bunch of repairs that are my fault.

Shit landlords get you shit tenants

Only place i ever had that was fair, was because the farang boyfriend made the contract.. i was underpaying and fixed everything myself.. Thais are never gonna learn logic beyond 2nd grade elementary

F1fanatic · November 30, 2010

To be fair, I am v biased...

The only thing that made me laugh after my husband (of 28 years) died was how his Thai g/f of 2 years told me everything we had bought whilst we were together (car etc.) belonged to her as she was living with him.... She honestly believed this and her Thai girlfriends were convinced this was the case - they told me as well as her !

I would give anything to have seen her face when she realised that she was entitled to precisely NOTHING () - everything he had, we'd bought together.....

Nasty I know, but I think I deserve that ONE laugh - she thought she had found the 'golden goose' and was left with pretty much nothing other than the things she stole

She's a lot wealthier than when she started, but nowhere near where she thought she'd be....

Edited November 30, 2010 by F1fanatic

cardholder · November 30, 2010

To be fair, I am v biased...

The only thing that made me laugh after my husband (of 28 years) died was how his Thai g/f of 2 years told me everything we had bought whilst we were together (car etc.) belonged to her as she was living with him.... She honestly believed this and her Thai girlfriends were convinced this was the case - they told me as well as her !

I would give anything to have seen her face when she realised that she was entitled to precisely NOTHING () - everything he had, we'd bought together.....

Nasty I know, but I think I deserve that ONE laugh - she thought she had found the 'golden goose' and was left with pretty much nothing other than the things she stole

She's a lot wealthier than when she started, but nowhere near where she thought she'd be....

I can now understand the direction you are coming from. You have also highlighted how naiive the Thais (and others) can be - only a few have the ability to go out and truly, premeditatedly extort money. The expectation that it is your job to look after them and, if necessary, the extended family knows no bounds. I have evidence of inherent greed greed (in a similar situation to yours) until the Thai girl realised that she was not going to get any more from the UK estate than had already been provided (which was perfectly adequate).

F1fanatic · November 30, 2010

To be fair, I am v biased...

The only thing that made me laugh after my husband (of 28 years) died was how his Thai g/f of 2 years told me everything we had bought whilst we were together (car etc.) belonged to her as she was living with him.... She honestly believed this and her Thai girlfriends were convinced this was the case - they told me as well as her !

I would give anything to have seen her face when she realised that she was entitled to precisely NOTHING () - everything he had, we'd bought together.....

Nasty I know, but I think I deserve that ONE laugh - she thought she had found the 'golden goose' and was left with pretty much nothing other than the things she stole

She's a lot wealthier than when she started, but nowhere near where she thought she'd be....

I can now understand the direction you are coming from. You have also highlighted how naiive the Thais (and others) can be - only a few have the ability to go out and truly, premeditatedly extort money. The expectation that it is your job to look after them and, if necessary, the extended family knows no bounds. I have evidence of inherent greed greed (in a similar situation to yours) until the Thai girl realised that she was not going to get any more from the UK estate than had already been provided (which was perfectly adequate).

Its not naive - they honestly thought that because she had been living with him a couple of years, everything belonged to her.

It was entirely pre-meditated, and the worst offender was a woman married to a farang - shouting in my face that everything my husband and I had bought together belonged to his g'f , as they were living together....

The g/f told me the same thing . As I say, the only thing that made me laugh for many months was when I pictured her face when she realised the 'awful' truth - she was not going to be wealthy beyond her dreams, just a few k baht richer from things she stole

One of 'their' farang friends that my husband made in the last couple of years actually told me that his g'f wanted "nothing"! She told everyone that, whilst fighting me tooth and nail until lawyers became involved.....

Edited November 30, 2010 by F1fanatic

MiG16 · November 30, 2010

I had posted something, but then realised it was perhaps off topic, and deleted my post immediately after.

but seems was not quick enough, as it had been quoted by 2 others. I have hence removed those 2 posts too.

nothing wrong with your posts per se, F1 and cardholder. Ive simply taken out a post that had already been deleted.

hope you both understand

cheers

MiG

torasap · November 30, 2010

Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day

Give a man a fishing rod, you feed him for a lifetime

Give a Thai man a fish, you feed him for a day

Give a Thai man a fishing rod, he sells the rod to buy a fish and a bottle of whiskey. The next day he comes back to ask for another fish

Well written, that's exactly how I see this right now.

EDIT: except that in this case, I'm being asked to provide another fishing rod.

Edited November 30, 2010 by torasap

torasap · November 30, 2010

Hey torasap, at the risk of my coming off to you a self appointed all knowing, everything about Thais, (I'm most certainly not) allow me to explain in a little more detail what I was trying to convey and the situation you now find yourself in. The fact that you feel I was calling you on pressuring your wife over her sister's taking and spending this money. Sorry, a misunderstanding, I was not referring to you directly blaming her for what's happened. You seem an intelligent bloke, of course you don't blame her for her SIL…………But you might as well in her eyes! Simply saying anything bad about her family is a direct attack on her.

I never talk bad about them in front of my wife. I just point out their actions and let those actions speak for themselves.

People are what they do.

Sorry, I know you wrote about your wife's sister, so why am I going on about your wife? I don't think you appreciate the pressure your wife is under to "deliver the bacon" so to speak! Trust me you have no "ace" not in Thailand. What you do have is an unhappy wife trying to save her face and that of her families. You are so right not to hand any more money over….But do it, (or not as this case may be) in the Thai way of doing it. Think Thai. Good luck.

As a matter of fact, I do credit my wife for the pressure she is under, that is, from my point of view and hopefully also hers. That's a part of my strategy to keep her on my side. I have decided to win against my SIL, but it takes diplomacy to do so ;-) When the bad news came, my sixth sense had already warned me, so my wife actually seemed even more disappointed than I did.

Can you tell me more about the thai-style of not handing over the money? Should I just say that I'm out of cash?

Edited November 30, 2010 by torasap

TAWP · November 30, 2010

I never talk bad about them in front of my wife. I just point out their actions and let those actions speak for themselves.[/size]

A notice: For many girls, the latter is equal to the former...you might pointing 'things' out, but doing it is equal as complaining [them]. Even more so if you do it against something your girl did. Just a warning...

torasap · November 30, 2010

I never talk bad about them in front of my wife. I just point out their actions and let those actions speak for themselves.[/size]

A notice: For many girls, the latter is equal to the former...you might pointing 'things' out, but doing it is equal as complaining [them]. Even more so if you do it against something your girl did. Just a warning...

I guess you're right about this. It's important to be rational without getting close to something which might look like a complaint or an ad hominem.

GooEng · November 30, 2010

I never talk bad about them in front of my wife. I just point out their actions and let those actions speak for themselves.[/size]

A notice: For many girls, the latter is equal to the former...you might pointing 'things' out, but doing it is equal as complaining [them]. Even more so if you do it against something your girl did. Just a warning...

I guess you're right about this. It's important to be rational without getting close to something which might look like a complaint or an ad hominem.

correct.

many of us in this forum have experienced this and some have bitched endlessly and pointlessly about it.

pointing out the faults or failings of your in-law relatives IS tantamount to complaining about them which IS tantamount to insulting them. it not only makes you look rude, it also causes them to "lose face" if they hear it, and it hurts your gf/wife's feelings.

regardless of how obvious and problematic their faults may be and the fact that you may think that caring about "losing face" is a load of sh*t and that they would serve themselves and those around them better by admitting their mistakes and learning from them, this is thailand and things do work like that here.

the answer is to simply keep your thoughts to yourself.

the most common time when the cry of "but i had to say something!" is heard is as a result of a deal involving money or some other commodity or responsibility going wrong. there are countless threads in here that boil down to the same advice regarding that - only part with what you are prepared to lose, expect to lose it, and when more is asked for lie and say you have none.

then you won't feel "but i had to say something!", and can keep your thoughts to yourself.

torasap · November 30, 2010

correct.

many of us in this forum have experienced this and some have bitched endlessly and pointlessly about it.

pointing out the faults or failings of your in-law relatives IS tantamount to complaining about them which IS tantamount to insulting them. it not only makes you look rude, it also causes them to "lose face" if they hear it, and it hurts your gf/wife's feelings.

regardless of how obvious and problematic their faults may be and the fact that you may think that caring about "losing face" is a load of sh*t and that they would serve themselves and those around them better by admitting their mistakes and learning from them, this is thailand and things do work like that here.

the answer is to simply keep your thoughts to yourself.

the most common time when the cry of "but i had to say something!" is heard is as a result of a deal involving money or some other commodity or responsibility going wrong. there are countless threads in here that boil down to the same advice regarding that - only part with what you are prepared to lose, expect to lose it, and when more is asked for lie and say you have none.

then you won't feel "but i had to say something!", and can keep your thoughts to yourself.

Quite frankly, I do have a strong passion for chris-hansen-style confrontations. You know... subtle, sophisticated and sarcastically calm - with a dash of diatribe to spice the statement up, such as "now let's see how it goes" or "I guess I'm not quite the surprise that you're looking for". I rarely use this in Thailand, and if it's something with the in-law family, I'll let my wife take care of it for me.

By the way, it also turns out now that I have my wife and my mother-in-law on my side in this particular case, too. My MIL said that instead of transferring more money for my SIL to invest in Thailand, I should save the money and run the business myself when I get the chance to do so.

Heng · November 30, 2010

I guess all the local banks and pawnshops must be surviving on fees then if no one is paying back their loans.

hint: not all debtors are created equal.

mca · November 30, 2010

To be fair, I am v biased...

The only thing that made me laugh after my husband (of 28 years) died was how his Thai g/f of 2 years told me everything we had bought whilst we were together (car etc.) belonged to her as she was living with him.... She honestly believed this and her Thai girlfriends were convinced this was the case - they told me as well as her !

I would give anything to have seen her face when she realised that she was entitled to precisely NOTHING () - everything he had, we'd bought together.....

Nasty I know, but I think I deserve that ONE laugh - she thought she had found the 'golden goose' and was left with pretty much nothing other than the things she stole

She's a lot wealthier than when she started, but nowhere near where she thought she'd be....

MCA. Note to self. Pay more attention. F1Fanatic is a woman.

billd766 · December 1, 2010

My only question is ... do you really see yourself as the "golden goose"?

It's a figure of speech. I do of course not see myself as a stupid bird. But it's the same mechanisms behind. Killing the opportunity of long-term profit only for short-term pleasure, and harming others in the act. Same-same but different.

Do I make myself clear in this?

You make yourself v clear. But, do you pay money to her parents every month? If so it is likely to make her family think you are a 'golden goose'.

I pay my wife's parents an amount each every month.

Her Mum is a little younger than me at 66 and her Dad is 74 and retired.

While they both get a Thai "pension" of some 500 baht a month the money I give helps them a lot.

No it does not make me the golden goose as I discussed it at length and I am quite happy to help them both.

My mother-in-law lives in the small house we have on the land and my father-in-law still lives in Bangkok.

We have helped out here brothers before and the money was paid back.

No I am not a golden goose.

saorsa · December 1, 2010

My only question is ... do you really see yourself as the "golden goose"?

It's a figure of speech. I do of course not see myself as a stupid bird. But it's the same mechanisms behind. Killing the opportunity of long-term profit only for short-term pleasure, and harming others in the act. Same-same but different.

Do I make myself clear in this?

You make yourself v clear. But, do you pay money to her parents every month? If so it is likely to make her family think you are a 'golden goose'.

I pay my wife's parents an amount each every month.

Her Mum is a little younger than me at 66 and her Dad is 74 and retired.

While they both get a Thai "pension" of some 500 baht a month the money I give helps them a lot.

No it does not make me the golden goose as I discussed it at length and I am quite happy to help them both.

My mother-in-law lives in the small house we have on the land and my father-in-law still lives in Bangkok.

We have helped out here brothers before and the money was paid back.

No I am not a golden goose.

Sounds pretty damned golden to me from reading all you have written in this thread

Tonto21 · December 1, 2010

Hey torasap, at the risk of my coming off to you a self appointed all knowing, everything about Thais, (I'm most certainly not) allow me to explain in a little more detail what I was trying to convey and the situation you now find yourself in. The fact that you feel I was calling you on pressuring your wife over her sister's taking and spending this money. Sorry, a misunderstanding, I was not referring to you directly blaming her for what's happened. You seem an intelligent bloke, of course you don't blame her for her SIL…………But you might as well in her eyes! Simply saying anything bad about her family is a direct attack on her.

I never talk bad about them in front of my wife. I just point out their actions and let those actions speak for themselves.

People are what they do.

Sorry, I know you wrote about your wife's sister, so why am I going on about your wife? I don't think you appreciate the pressure your wife is under to "deliver the bacon" so to speak! Trust me you have no "ace" not in Thailand. What you do have is an unhappy wife trying to save her face and that of her families. You are so right not to hand any more money over….But do it, (or not as this case may be) in the Thai way of doing it. Think Thai. Good luck.

As a matter of fact, I do credit my wife for the pressure she is under, that is, from my point of view and hopefully also hers. That's a part of my strategy to keep her on my side. I have decided to win against my SIL, but it takes diplomacy to do so ;-) When the bad news came, my sixth sense had already warned me, so my wife actually seemed even more disappointed than I did.

Can you tell me more about the thai-style of not handing over the money? Should I just say that I'm out of cash?

torasap, to answer your question; “should I just say that I'm out of cash?” You can say anything you want, basically it’s not about what you say, it’s how you say it. It’s also not about you being believed, it’s more about your role in keeping everyone’s “Face” intact. For sure they’re going to be miffed you’re not giving them more money. Again, you need to tell your wife the same story you want relayed to the SIL, Why? Well, it’s not a trust thing with the wife, it’s more about removing responsibility from her and allowing her to keep her face, trust me, she know your lying, I know your lying, everyone on TV knows your lying………….Even her SIL knows your lying! But the family won’t call you out, instead they may try and come up with more elaborate schemes that need your help and fiancé assistance……Time will tell. This is the way I would deal with this issue in Thailand. Just forget the 20k; this is a very cheap lesson.

Allow me to finish with this, try not to judge the guilty family members (as you would see them) to harshly in this matter, it will only cloud any possible good deeds they may do in the future. Try and learn a little of Thai family culture, If it’s any comfort Thais are as confused about how we tick as we are about them.

IanForbes · December 1, 2010

You can generalize all you want, but each case is a separate one. Many people the world over are weak. They have the best intentions, but when put to the test they don't follow through with what they promised. It happens as often in North America (or any other country) as it does in Thailand. And, until being put to the test yourself you can't always be sure what you would do in the same situation.

Hopefully, most of us learn from our mistakes as we grow older. There is an old saying... Never a lender or a borrower be. If you can't afford to risk something then don't lend it. Anything I "lend" in Thailand I consider charity and never expect to see it again. I give or don't give depending on the mood I'm in. I seldom give to beggers, but occasionally I do for just a whim. That doesn't mean I'm a sucker to be milked dry. I'm always getting solicited by mountain people who come into the bars at night. I just brush them off with a simple My ow Krap.

However, most of us try to help family. Sometimes we get burnt, but that is the price of being a decent person. But, once burnt, twice shy and only the foolish repeat the same mistake with the same people. The OP learned a valuable lesson about his extended Thai family, and got off relatively cheap. If he repeats the mistake then that would be foolish. It's easy to be hard and cold to those that already burnt their bridges, and you can do it without losing face. That doesn't mean everyone should brush off their extended Thai family. Give a little bit and see what they do with it. If they treat you like a sucker then it's easy to cut off all further charity.

Tonto21 · December 1, 2010

I never talk bad about them in front of my wife. I just point out their actions and let those actions speak for themselves.[/size]

A notice: For many girls, the latter is equal to the former...you might pointing 'things' out, but doing it is equal as complaining [them]. Even more so if you do it against something your girl did. Just a warning...

I guess you're right about this. It's important to be rational without getting close to something which might look like a complaint or an ad hominem.

correct.

many of us in this forum have experienced this and some have bitched endlessly and pointlessly about it.

pointing out the faults or failings of your in-law relatives IS tantamount to complaining about them which IS tantamount to insulting them. it not only makes you look rude, it also causes them to "lose face" if they hear it, and it hurts your gf/wife's feelings.

regardless of how obvious and problematic their faults may be and the fact that you may think that caring about "losing face" is a load of sh*t and that they would serve themselves and those around them better by admitting their mistakes and learning from them, this is thailand and things do work like that here.

the answer is to simply keep your thoughts to yourself.

the most common time when the cry of "but i had to say something!" is heard is as a result of a deal involving money or some other commodity or responsibility going wrong. there are countless threads in here that boil down to the same advice regarding that - only part with what you are prepared to lose, expect to lose it, and when more is asked for lie and say you have none.

then you won't feel "but i had to say something!", and can keep your thoughts to yourself.

Well explained, and to the point!

GarryP · December 1, 2010

I tend to agree with F1 on this. But luckily my wife and I agree on which of her brothers and sisters are not worth the time of day. I can say pretty much what I want without offending my wife as she has the same opinion as me now (after being screwed over one too many times). And yet two of them still don't get it and still ring regularly with sob stories (fictitious) despite not getting anything from us for years.

I told my wife simply to tell everyone that I would not give any loans and put the blame squarely on me. I couldn't give a sh*t what they think of me anyway. The thing is that when everything was made crystal clear how we stood, we have got on much better with the other members of her family.

However, it should be noted that I do not believe that this is specific to Thailand or Thais. I think you will find this pretty much anywhere.

GuestHouse · December 1, 2010

Hey torasap, at the risk of my coming off to you a self appointed all knowing, everything about Thais, (Im most certainly not) allow me to explain in a little more detail what I was trying to convey and the situation you now find yourself in. The fact that you feel I was calling you on pressuring your wife over her sisters taking and spending this money. Sorry, a misunderstanding, I was not referring to you directly blaming her for whats happened. You seem an intelligent bloke, of course you dont blame her for her SIL…………But you might as well in her eyes! Simply saying anything bad about her family is a direct attack on her.

This, I know sounds rude, its not meant to be but you just dont get it, do you? Why are these Thais so stupid? Why cant they see Im trying to help them? Talk about the hand that feeds, they just dont think like us!……………………………….And so on!

Being a farang married to a Thai woman can be very rewarding, (home cooked Thai food for one thing) but can lead to major conflict due to cultural background, sad thing is Thais culture being so different to our own, we (the royal we) may never see a problem coming till its too late. She is Thai; she is not some girl from Manchester whos going to confront you about calling her sister.

Ive heard it said, by more than one person with long time experience with Thai wives, and girlfriends and believe it to be true; you can tell when all the respect has gone for you when your wife/gf still tells you she loves you but, doesnt wash you cloths or cook for you any more……No disrespect torasap, but wake up mate and smell the coffee, you are married to a Thai, she or her family are incapable of changing her cultural blueprint, you on the other hand are more than capable of learning, (just a little) about what makes Thais tick, as said before it will help keep you sane!

Sorry, I know you wrote about your wifes sister, so why am I going on about your wife? I dont think you appreciate the pressure your wife is under to deliver the bacon so to speak! Trust me you have no ace not in Thailand. What you do have is an unhappy wife trying to save her face and that of her families. You are so right not to hand any more money over….But do it, (or not as this case may be) in the Thai way of doing it. Think Thai. Good luck.

This is the kind of Puzzy whipped thinking that has guys creeping around the homes they have paid for / finance like a regularly kicked dog.

All this 'You've married a Thai so you have to accept Thai ways (That is Thai ways as interpreted by stranger expats on an anonymous web forum)'

Well guess what ........ It works both ways - The Thai woman here married a Farang guy!

I don't know a signle Thai person who does not run a life long battle between their own private space and encroachment by their wider family - The OP's wife hasn't been dealing with family demands since she got married to the OP - She's been dealing with family demands all of her life.

One thing she will absolutely understand is the need to protect herself and her husband from these demands.

The OP telling his wife that he is not willing to make another loan to her sister is not insulting her sister, it is simply the OP telling his wife what he wants to do (does not want to do) with his money - She will understand that his money is his money.

I say good on the OP for sticking to his guns and, let's face it, handing out cash is only going to feed dependancy.

If the OP is putting the food on the table then he has a right to demand respect for doing so - and guess what, if he demands that respect, he'll get it.

..... Or he could creep around like a whipped dog...

As they say OP - Up2U.

And if your wife doesn't like it, if she is not willing to protect you from her family's avarice - well Up2her2.

Thailand is full of women who understand the benefits of keeping their own family at arms length - They are brought up doing just that.

Edited December 1, 2010 by GuestHouse

torasap · December 1, 2010

torasap, to answer your question; "should I just say that I'm out of cash?" You can say anything you want, basically it's not about what you say, it's how you say it. It's also not about you being believed, it's more about your role in keeping everyone's "Face" intact. For sure they're going to be miffed you're not giving them more money. Again, you need to tell your wife the same story you want relayed to the SIL, Why? Well, it's not a trust thing with the wife, it's more about removing responsibility from her and allowing her to keep her face, trust me, she know your lying, I know your lying, everyone on TV knows your lying………….Even her SIL knows your lying! But the family won't call you out, instead they may try and come up with more elaborate schemes that need your help and fiancé assistance……Time will tell. This is the way I would deal with this issue in Thailand. Just forget the 20k; this is a very cheap lesson.

Allow me to finish with this, try not to judge the guilty family members (as you would see them) to harshly in this matter, it will only cloud any possible good deeds they may do in the future. Try and learn a little of Thai family culture, If it's any comfort Thais are as confused about how we tick as we are about them.

My wallet forgot about the 20k the moment I sent it - because as you say, this is a very cheap lesson. Besides, I never had any high hopes of getting the money back in the first place.

But my sense of pride didn't forget it. I guess it's something about 'face' here too, as I know that nobody respects a pushover. Be it from sound integrity or from narcissistic personality disorder - I can never accept defeat once the chicken-run has started.

Telling obvious lies to save face of everyone involved won't be a problem for me. Especially when it involves people who have proven to be reckless with the truth (keegohok) themselves. I'm fresh on TV but not-so-fresh in Thailand, although it might seem like it ;-) Throughout the last 5-10 years, I have actually learned more about thai culture (including family culture) than it may seem here - it's just that I look at it in a slightly different way than you do. Thank you for your advice, though :-)

elliss · December 1, 2010

my TG , often comes up with buisness plans ,

hair dresing salon , internet coffee shop , 7/11 shop ???

i tell her she have good brain , take time.

i wait for the next good plan , maybe open airport . :jap:

evanson · December 1, 2010

Everyone is a bit different, and many of us change over time. I know I'm 180 degrees different than I was about 50 years ago. Some of us learn from our mistakes and some don't. For me it was an epiphany to change from being miserly to being open and generous. It's much nicer now and the karma I get in return seems to be working. Now I feel like I own the world and walk around free as a bird. It's a good state to be in.

Good for you! Miserliness is THE trait I most deplore in others. My mother'd told me that there's always another flaw running in tight people, and she was right. I've had a couple of friends who've made me cringe over the years, the ones who always make sure YOU enter the pub/bar first/disappear to the wc when the bill's to be paid, don't come round/call you whe you're going through a rough patch. Hate 'em.

What was the cause of your particular epiphany? Maybe I could pass it on :-D

evanson · December 1, 2010