Cypriot Plane Crashes In Greece

[Thomas_Merton]

Cypriot plane crashes in Greece

A Cypriot airliner carrying at least 110 people has crashed north-east of Athens, reports say.

The plane - from Helios airlines - hit a mountain as it approached Athens after getting into difficulties.

An air traffic controller at Athens airport told the AFP news agency the plane, travelling from Larnaca, Cyprus, crashed into the Euboea peninsula.

Greek military jets were scrambled after controllers lost contact with the pilot, AFP reported.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4150312.stm

[cdnvic]

Topic reopened

cv

[Thomas_Merton]

Topic reopened

cv

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks cdnvic, and the other moderators, for reopening this topic after a weeks deliberations.

Not wishing to repeat the arguments that have preceded this action, I would however like to note some justification as to why I thought this news item should be of interest to members of Thaivisa:

1. The circumstances behind this disaster are still unclear. But would suggest some problems with the ventilation system. How this is addressed should be of interest to all who travel with airlines.

2. May of Thaivisa's members are employed in the airline industry.

3. With the destination being Athens and the flight departure being Cyprus, especially at this holiday time of the year, there could well be members who would be anxious to check the details out of fear of knowing those involved.

[The_Moog]

I think an angle of interest here is ....

Do Budget Airlines cut corners on routine mechanical maintenance?

Fuel costs going up, pushing up air ticket prices, at the same time as travellers believe air travel should be coming down in price in order to attract them on to flights.

Some of the Budget carriers in Indonesia had really old russian made planes, repainted and put into service. I doubt they had modern ground-tracking rader.

[Thomas_Merton]

I think an angle of interest here is ....

Do Budget Airlines cut corners on routine mechanical maintenance?

Fuel costs going up, pushing up air ticket prices, at the same time as travellers believe air travel should be coming down in price in order to attract them on to flights.

Some of the Budget carriers in Indonesia had really old russian made planes, repainted and put into service. I doubt they had modern ground-tracking rader.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Agree.

(BTW, like the face-lift.)

Edited August 21, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[kasi]

I'm an airline pilot and take interest in all aviation related incidents/accidents to help promote my own personal safety.

This Boeing 737-300 which just crashed has some odd aspects to it.

First what I noted that the pilot reported to air traffic control they were having "air conditioning problems". First of all that is improper terminology. The "air conditioning" on an airliner is called a "cabin pressurization system".

At 34000 feet, the altitude they where at if sudden cabin pressure is lost you have about 15-20 of useful consciousness. This why the cockpit crew are equipped with quick donning oxygen masks.

Standard cockpit procedure is when one member of the flight crew leaves his seat (to pee or flirt with a flight attendant) the remaining one wears his mask.

Since problems with this type of aircraft are extremely rare a complacent crew could be taken by surprise with a gradual pressurization problem. I have heard that this particular aircraft just had an issue with cabin pressure. I strongly suspect that this accident began on the ground with maintenance.

I've had 2 "in flight" emergencies during my career and both were maintenance related on aircraft fresh out of maintenance.

I'll wager money heads are going to roll and maintenance of this airline are scrambling to cover their a$$es.

Edited August 21, 2005 by kasi

[Crossy]

If anyone is interested (and likes a marathon read) there is a VERY long thread regading this incident on the Professional Pilots Rumour Network, here:-

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.ph...us&pagenumber=1

You may have to sign up, but it's free.

[lampard10]

My main reason for such interest in this topic, is that I heard that when they found the bodies, they were all frozen solid, yet I cannot find any confirmation on this. Any offers?

[lopburi3]

My main reason for such interest in this topic, is that I heard that when they found the bodies, they were all frozen solid, yet I cannot find any confirmation on this. Any offers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

First reports also said all were wearing oxygen masks but later that none were - expect the crash field with all the orange masks on display was reason for that report. It now appears the plane made distress manurers so someone was alive long enough to do that - but if pressure was gone why did they not decend?

The bigger question to me is why are we still flying using yesterdays technology when today we have to ability to put a missile into a car half way around the world. VHF radio as a prime lifeline is from our fathers and grand-fathers era. Emergency reporting recorder with only 30 seconds time? Every teenager has better equipment to listen to mp3's. It is really sad how much a plane costs but how little is spent to upgrade the way we fly.

Edited August 21, 2005 by lopburi3

[Thomas_Merton]

My main reason for such interest in this topic, is that I heard that when they found the bodies, they were all frozen solid, yet I cannot find any confirmation on this. Any offers?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Sunday Times has a detailed article on the crash.

Here is part of the article:

Many questions remain unanswered, but a tale of mechanical failure and possible human error seems to be emerging. “The investigation is heading towards a combination of a technical problem and the human factor, with perhaps a human error,” said Akrivos Tsolakis, head of the inquiry team.

It is a tragedy that may hold important lessons for the booming market in budget airlines.

HELIOS Airways joined the cut-throat business of no-frills airlines in 1999 when it became Cyprus’s first privately owned airline. Last November it was bought by Libra Holidays, a Hertfordshire-based tour company, and it now runs services to a string of British airports.

Until last Sunday’s crash, the Helios fleet consisted of three Boeing 737s and a leased Airbus plane. Although the company met official standards, it faced tough competition. Demetris Pantazis, its managing director, has something of a reputation for being tough on costs.

In December, the 737 that crashed last weekend had lost cabin pressure on a flight from Warsaw to Larnaca — just a week after it had received its annual maintenance check.

Passengers on another flight also suffered a problem with the cabin climate. On the day before the crash, Louise Gates, 48, from Newbury, Berkshire, was one of more than 100 British passengers on board the plane as it flew from Heathrow to Larnaca.

“It was absolutely freezing on that plane,” she said. “Everyone was asking for blankets but the steward told me that they had run out . . . there was definitely something wrong.”

The plane remained at Larnaca for only a few hours before it was due to set off on its flight to Prague.

As it was prepared, difficulties with the staffing also emerged. Pambos Charalambous, a 40-year-old with a British pilot’s licence, stepped in as co-pilot at the last minute.

Charalambous seemed to have concerns about Helios. His mother, Artemi, claimed: “He told me that the plane had a problem and I urged him not to fly. He told the company about it getting cold [on the plane]and they told him it would be fixed.”

[cdnvic]

First of all that is improper terminology. The "air conditioning" on an airliner is called a "cabin pressurization system".

Keep in mind that this is all a translation. Terminology can get garbled in the process.

cv

[Thomas_Merton]

The Cypriot airliner that crashed in Greece had lost cabin pressure and run out of fuel, investigators say.

The preliminary findings were reported by chief investigator Akrivos Tsolakis.

Autopsies have been conducted on all 118 bodies found at the crash site north of Athens. But three - including the captain's - are still missing.

Coroners say those on board the Helios Airways Boeing 737 were alive - though possibly unconscious - when it crashed on 14 August.

All but 11 of the victims were Cypriot and some 17 children are thought to have been on board.

A flight attendant is believed to have tried to take control of the airliner during its final moments.

The pilots of two Greek F-16s that shadowed the airliner just before the crash said they saw the co-pilot slumped over the controls and the captain was missing from the cockpit.

"There is proof that the engines of the plane stopped working because the fuel supply was exhausted, and that this was the final cause of the crash," said the preliminary report released on Monday.

The catastrophic loss of cabin pressure would have exposed those on board to extreme cold and lack of oxygen.

Flight 522 had been heading for Athens en route to Prague when it lost contact with air traffic controllers, sparking a security alert before it crashed.

Mr Tsolakis said the plane's black box voice recorder indicated someone had repeatedly tried to send an emergency mayday signal.

A person wearing an oxygen mask was sitting in the pilot's seat for the final 10 minutes before the crash, the investigator said, adding that the tone of voice showed it was a man - either distressed or suffering from exhaustion.

See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4172740.stm