Thai People And Map Reading Skills

[midas]

Whenever i try to give directions to Thai people - the vast majority ( i.e. not every single Thai ) seem to find it hard to understand directions even though i give them what i consider are good location plans......! I always try to put as much info as possible on the diagram including major road, soi`s and all well know landmark buildings...and then i try to explain it all to them asking if they know this building or that building.......?

But more often than not they just dont seem to grasp the meaning of the plan and they never seem to have a very good sense of direction....

Is it just my poor communication with them or has anyone else had similar experiences ?

[simcity]

i ask this question to a friend , he told me, peoples know by experience and put familiar landmark for direction, and are adverse to map.

I did spend time to make a computer map for my place, use for tradesman or delivery, I do not try to draw one on the spot , if I forgot it , I fax it after ! Most of the time it work ( the fax and the map ).

It is all in Thai

[buadhai]

I am trying to teach my girlfriend to read maps and navigate with them. It has been difficult. I don't know if they are not taught to do this or if the idea of driving to an unknown location using a map is a new concept that many Thai's have yet to master.

I first knew I was in trouble when I realized that my girlfriend, born and raised in Korat, had no idea of the compass directions when she was in town. She was determined to learn though, and after a few test runs she can now manage to figure out what direction is North based on time of day and sun position.

After that we practiced relative positiions: "Our house is what direction from your parents' shop?" She has now mastered this concept.

When we drove from Korat to Prachuap Khiri Khan last month, she, armed with a road atlas, was navigator. She did a credible job of figuring out the route, locating our position on the map and figuring out which way to turn go get to our various destinations. She even figured out an alternative route home designed to avoid Bangkok traffic.

Next week we are doing a tour of northeast Isaan. She has done most of the map and route research herself and is looking forward to being navigator again.

I'm very happy that she's accomplished this in a relatively short period.

[Crossy]

It's not just the Thais.

The wonderful Italians are just as bad (I lived there for 3 years), going somewhere? Ok, it's south, we'll drive for a bit and then ask! Easy!

I've been driven round Rome by collegues (Italian) taking 2 hours and driving 3 times as far as I could have done (and have done) just by looking at a map.

I reckon only Brits and Yanks are tought to read maps at school (well that's how it feels anyway).

My Thai wife has no concept of really what a map means, drive near and then ask, I've given up planning

So to Midas, no it's not just you....

Edited August 14, 2005 by Crossy

[Gazza]

I've had to show people maps that were faxed to me by companies that I had appointments with. It didn't matter how much detail or how basic they were, the person I was showing it to would turn it this way and then turn it that way trying to decipher just what it was that they were looking at.

One company gave me a really good run around at one time by making a map upside down. ie the top was the south and the bottom was north.

Getting directions. Quite often I'll get lost on some backroads here and there and when I admit defeat and stuff the map away, I'll ask the gf to ask someone for directions. I can pick out most of the directions from what I overhear so I know I have to make so many left or right turns and to look for 'saam yaaks' or

'sii yaaks' or whatever.

It's almost guaranteed every time that at the first junction we come to I'll ask the gf for confirmation which way we were told to take. 'Mai ruu' or 'Luum' is the usual response I get. Yet I'll have picked up that we had to take a particular direction.

I think Thais possibly just try to memorise all the directions, were as I'll visualise each turn in my mind as I'm receiving the info.

Whenever possible, always ask a farang for directions.

[midas]

Thanks for all your comments - so its just me after all !

They must surely teach such skills in the army in Thailand though......?

I wonder what the average traffic cop is like here at reading road maps

- surely they would be above average as well ?

[Boon Mee]

Thanks for all your comments - so its just me after all !

They must surely teach such skills in the army in Thailand though......?

I wonder what the average traffic cop is like here at reading road maps

- surely they would be above average as well ?

The average traffic cop does not know any more than the general population and most time less. You try to ask one simple directions say from the Prapadaeng area of Samut Prakan to the other side of the river (danm sapan ain't finished yet) and he's lost...

[markuk]

I personally think they must be excellent map readers as that must be what they are doing when driving!!! hence the awful driving skills.......

[simon43]

Isn't there some truth that women are ALL very bad map-readers? And that there is a scientific reason for this (their brains are wired differently to men...) Seems when all this extra info goes into their heads, it just gets jumbled up

Simon - Awaiting flames from irate women...

[Curt]

I've always found that my Asian friends, (Thai, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Chinese), always want directions.

I give them a map and get a blank stare.

Conversely, they always want to tell me how to get somewhere.

I ask for the address and look on a map.

[TizMe]

I tend to agree with simon. Both my current wife (Thai) and ex (Oz) were both uselesss at trying to navigate even though both are intelligent and very capable in other areas.

When I was doing my visa extension, the immigration officer asked my wife to draw a map to show them where we live. If I'd used that map to get home I would still be lost.

[simon43]

I tend to agree with simon. Both my current wife (Thai) and ex (Oz) were both uselesss at trying to navigate even though both are intelligent and very capable in other areas.

[\quote]

Exactly! And men have a similar problem with tasks such as washing up, cooking, cleaning the house etc . We are just physically incapable of doing these tasks

'Teerak, it was a joke, honest darling!! a joke! aaahhhhh that hurt!!!!'

[Eneukman]

When heading down to Pattaya from Bangkok Airport a couple of trips, my taxi driver couldn't read a very simple map. If I hadn't known where the hotel was, I hate to think where we would have ended up!!!

Back in June, I had a young woman driver who followed the instructions I gave her (in Thai) once we reached Pattaya to the letter and we she got me to the hotel without any problems.

Alan

[ProThaiExpat]

I am so smart, I put a detailed map with distance mileage, etc on the back of my business card and give it to all for deliveries, etc. Useless exercise. They can't read it. Its in Thai. The soi which enters my project is opposite a major army base entrance.

For some Thai, telling them in Thai its the soi opposite the army base gate works, but if they don't know where the army base gate is, back to square one.

I have seen my Thai draw maps for delivery. They still get lost in the project even with a detailed street map.

Big however, a brit with the same map on the back of my business card drove the whole project before finding me. Its not the map, believe me, as each street in the project is detailed with alternative routes also.

Face is involved as well. Japanese and most asians will give you detailed directions even though they don't know where you want to go. Saves your face and theirs.

I agree, teaching your Thai how to decipher directions, compass directions and map reading over time will pay off greatly as they become better at thinking western style regarding direction and being able to determine when directions given to them by Thais are hogwash.

[buadhai]

Isn't there some truth that women are ALL very bad map-readers?  And that there is a scientific reason for this (their brains are wired differently to men...)  Seems when all this extra info goes into their heads, it just gets jumbled up

Simon - Awaiting flames from irate women...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's true that women tend to navigate differently than men. Women navigate using landmarks while men navigate using geometry and direction. (Interestingly enough, gay men also tend to use landmarks rather than direction.) As a result of this difference, men tend to be better map readers than women.

Here's an article from BBC on the topic:

Sexes take different neural directions

[Totster]

Isn't there some truth that women are ALL very bad map-readers?  And that there is a scientific reason for this (their brains are wired differently to men...)  Seems when all this extra info goes into their heads, it just gets jumbled up

Simon - Awaiting flames from irate women...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's true that women tend to navigate differently than men. Women navigate using landmarks while men navigate using geometry and direction. (Interestingly enough, gay men also tend to use landmarks rather than direction.) As a result of this difference, men tend to be better map readers than women.

Here's an article from BBC on the topic:

Sexes take different neural directions

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is the difference in the same part of the brain that controls rational thought..?

totster

[SiamOne]

I am trying to teach my girlfriend to read maps and navigate with them. It has been difficult. I don't know if they are not taught to do this or if the idea of driving to an unknown location using a map is a new concept that many Thai's have yet to master.

I first knew I was in trouble when I realized that my girlfriend, born and raised in Korat, had no idea of the compass directions when she was in town. She was determined to learn though, and after a few test runs she can now manage to figure out what direction is North based on time of day and sun position.

After that we practiced relative positiions: "Our house is what direction from your parents' shop?" She has now mastered this concept.

When we drove from Korat to Prachuap Khiri Khan last month, she, armed with a road atlas, was navigator. She did a credible job of figuring out the route, locating our position on the map and figuring out which way to turn go get to our various destinations. She even figured out an alternative route home designed to avoid Bangkok traffic.

it is all about education!! as you can see, after some tuition your wife can manage fine

I was the same, but now I navigate my husband all the way from London to Portugal!!

In school, I never knew much about how to read a map, it was a new concept

Next week we are doing a tour of northeast Isaan. She has done most of the map and route research herself and is looking forward to being navigator again.

I'm very happy that she's accomplished this in a relatively short period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[SiamOne]

I am trying to teach my girlfriend to read maps and navigate with them. It has been difficult. I don't know if they are not taught to do this or if the idea of driving to an unknown location using a map is a new concept that many Thai's have yet to master.

I first knew I was in trouble when I realized that my girlfriend, born and raised in Korat, had no idea of the compass directions when she was in town. She was determined to learn though, and after a few test runs she can now manage to figure out what direction is North based on time of day and sun position.

After that we practiced relative positiions: "Our house is what direction from your parents' shop?" She has now mastered this concept.

When we drove from Korat to Prachuap Khiri Khan last month, she, armed with a road atlas, was navigator. She did a credible job of figuring out the route, locating our position on the map and figuring out which way to turn go get to our various destinations. She even figured out an alternative route home designed to avoid Bangkok traffic.

Next week we are doing a tour of northeast Isaan. She has done most of the map and route research herself and is looking forward to being navigator again.

I'm very happy that she's accomplished this in a relatively short period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

whoops sorry, here it is again

it is all about education!! as you can see, after some tuition your wife can manage fine

I was the same, but now I navigate my husband all the way from London to Portugal!!

In school, I never knew much about how to read a map, it was a new concept

[buadhai]

Now I wonder if the tendency of men to use "deep thought" (the left hippocampal region) to navigate accounts for our supposed unwillingness to ask directions?

It's also worth noting that both methods of navigation are useful in certain situations. Although I am definitely a map-reading sort of guy, I have taught myself over the years to pay attention to and attempt to memorize landmarks when I first visit a new place. Each gender can learn from the other's methods.

SiamOne, good on you for taking the time to learn and for you husband to help you out. Of course it can be done, it just takes some time and some patience.

And, finally, I won't touch Totster's "rational thought" comment with a ten foot pole....

[chownah]

I am trying to teach my girlfriend to read maps and navigate with them. It has been difficult. I don't know if they are not taught to do this or if the idea of driving to an unknown location using a map is a new concept that many Thai's have yet to master.

I first knew I was in trouble when I realized that my girlfriend, born and raised in Korat, had no idea of the compass directions when she was in town. She was determined to learn though, and after a few test runs she can now manage to figure out what direction is North based on time of day and sun position.

After that we practiced relative positiions: "Our house is what direction from your parents' shop?" She has now mastered this concept.

When we drove from Korat to Prachuap Khiri Khan last month, she, armed with a road atlas, was navigator. She did a credible job of figuring out the route, locating our position on the map and figuring out which way to turn go get to our various destinations. She even figured out an alternative route home designed to avoid Bangkok traffic.

it is all about education!! as you can see, after some tuition your wife can manage fine

I was the same, but now I navigate my husband all the way from London to Portugal!!

In school, I never knew much about how to read a map, it was a new concept

Next week we are doing a tour of northeast Isaan. She has done most of the map and route research herself and is looking forward to being navigator again.

I'm very happy that she's accomplished this in a relatively short period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for your post. I have a difficult time knowing what writing is yours and what writing is from buadhai. If you want to mix your writing with his it would be better if you did something to make it clear which is your writing. Some people make their writing a different color so it is easy to see. I have changed your post above to change your writing to blue. If you want to see how I did this you can pretend you want to reply to this post and in the editor you will see that "" is used to start the blue color and "" is used to end the blue color and change back to the previous color. You can add these pieces of text using the buttons above the text editing window to type this text in for you. Use the 'color' button to put in the text like "" and the 'Close all Tags' button to put in the text "" or you can type them in by hand yourself..no need to capitalize any of this text. Good luck. As you can see I haven't mastered the process yet myself!!!

Edited August 15, 2005 by chownah

[Patex]

Normaly,

Thais have no problem with the main directions in their country. When, say, a delivery- van finally reach my city they call for further direction. As there is only one trafficlight in town I like to explain: Turn left immediately after the traffic light! They will fail, nearly 100%!

Mea says: After you see the Don Makaam (somewhat 40 meter behind the traffic light) you turn left... they succeed

Regards, Patex

[SiamOne]

I am trying to teach my girlfriend to read maps and navigate with them. It has been difficult. I don't know if they are not taught to do this or if the idea of driving to an unknown location using a map is a new concept that many Thai's have yet to master.

I first knew I was in trouble when I realized that my girlfriend, born and raised in Korat, had no idea of the compass directions when she was in town. She was determined to learn though, and after a few test runs she can now manage to figure out what direction is North based on time of day and sun position.

After that we practiced relative positiions: "Our house is what direction from your parents' shop?" She has now mastered this concept.

When we drove from Korat to Prachuap Khiri Khan last month, she, armed with a road atlas, was navigator. She did a credible job of figuring out the route, locating our position on the map and figuring out which way to turn go get to our various destinations. She even figured out an alternative route home designed to avoid Bangkok traffic.

it is all about education!! as you can see, after some tuition your wife can manage fine

I was the same, but now I navigate my husband all the way from London to Portugal!!

In school, I never knew much about how to read a map, it was a new concept

Next week we are doing a tour of northeast Isaan. She has done most of the map and route research herself and is looking forward to being navigator again.

I'm very happy that she's accomplished this in a relatively short period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for your post. I have a difficult time knowing what writing is yours and what writing is from buadhai. If you want to mix your writing with his it would be better if you did something to make it clear which is your writing. Some people make their writing a different color so it is easy to see. I have changed your post above to change your writing to blue. If you want to see how I did this you can pretend you want to reply to this post and in the editor you will see that "" is used to start the blue color and "" is used to end the blue color and change back to the previous color. You can add these pieces of text using the buttons above the text editing window to type this text in for you. Use the 'color' button to put in the text like "" and the 'Close all Tags' button to put in the text "" or you can type them in by hand yourself..no need to capitalize any of this text. Good luck. As you can see I haven't mastered the process yet myself!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know all that!! it was my mistake, so I posted a second attempt just afterwards....you can read that one instead OK?

[BambinA]

Whenever i try to give directions to Thai people - the vast majority ( i.e. not every single Thai ) seem to find it hard to understand directions even though i give them what i consider are good location plans......!  I always try to put as much info as possible on the diagram including major road, soi`s and all well know landmark buildings...and then i try to explain it all to them asking if they know this building or that building.......?

But more often than not they just dont seem to grasp the meaning of the plan and they never seem to have a very good sense of direction....

Is it just my poor communication with them or has anyone else had similar experiences ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

problem

1 communication prob - language barrier .. while you try to explain them about the direction , it like double tasks for them ..1 translate for your english to thai , and 2 try to understand new direction in their head

2 about experience ..if somebody drive and use map already ..they have more advantage and easilier to understand than house wives who never been any place by themself by find the direction

3 sex ,obviously ...when you try to explain the direction for woman ..as turn right 500 metres then left-right-u turn ..etc etc ..blah balh .. its hard for us ..we need sign or landmark

basically when people tell me about the direction, i will write my own map ..it works , i'll write while guys try to explain ..

Bambi

Edited August 15, 2005 by BambinA

[elsie]

I am a Thai. And I can read a map all right.

Just don't talk in codes with me, like...

RGB: "How are we going to this place?"

LC: "Down this road, then turn left, etc etc"

RGB: "Oh, so we are going South and then West and back up North again."

LC: "......"

[chownah]

I am trying to teach my girlfriend to read maps and navigate with them. It has been difficult. I don't know if they are not taught to do this or if the idea of driving to an unknown location using a map is a new concept that many Thai's have yet to master.

I first knew I was in trouble when I realized that my girlfriend, born and raised in Korat, had no idea of the compass directions when she was in town. She was determined to learn though, and after a few test runs she can now manage to figure out what direction is North based on time of day and sun position.

After that we practiced relative positiions: "Our house is what direction from your parents' shop?" She has now mastered this concept.

When we drove from Korat to Prachuap Khiri Khan last month, she, armed with a road atlas, was navigator. She did a credible job of figuring out the route, locating our position on the map and figuring out which way to turn go get to our various destinations. She even figured out an alternative route home designed to avoid Bangkok traffic.

it is all about education!! as you can see, after some tuition your wife can manage fine

I was the same, but now I navigate my husband all the way from London to Portugal!!

In school, I never knew much about how to read a map, it was a new concept

Next week we are doing a tour of northeast Isaan. She has done most of the map and route research herself and is looking forward to being navigator again.

I'm very happy that she's accomplished this in a relatively short period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you for your post. I have a difficult time knowing what writing is yours and what writing is from buadhai. If you want to mix your writing with his it would be better if you did something to make it clear which is your writing. Some people make their writing a different color so it is easy to see. I have changed your post above to change your writing to blue. If you want to see how I did this you can pretend you want to reply to this post and in the editor you will see that "" is used to start the blue color and "" is used to end the blue color and change back to the previous color. You can add these pieces of text using the buttons above the text editing window to type this text in for you. Use the 'color' button to put in the text like "" and the 'Close all Tags' button to put in the text "" or you can type them in by hand yourself..no need to capitalize any of this text. Good luck. As you can see I haven't mastered the process yet myself!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know all that!! it was my mistake, so I posted a second attempt just afterwards....you can read that one instead OK?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was politely trying to help you....now it seems you want to yell at me....at least I usually interpret large red text as yelling. Have I done something to deserve this? I have offered help like this to other posters before and they have thanked me. What' up?

[bina]

u are all mixing up maps with getting somewhere....

first: how many thai people travel all over thailand as opposed to just going to a specific spot like family, when they have opportunity to travel? how many of u can walk thru acres and acres of fields and know where u are going , to see a specific problem?

well:first: its like the israelis: go straight, make a left, an other left, and then straight (no matter what the real directions were, just dont say, i dont know)... was the joke among ex pats here for years when asking directions (like the italians?)....

second: all , and i repeat, all , the thai workers (hundreds by now) can navigate better then me when getting to point a, from point b, once they have done it once themselves!!!! w/o reading signs, maps, directions etc.......

they have visual memory (unlike most more educated people that rely on the written word......these guys seem to remember a million numbers in their head w/o writing them down either), i get lost if i dont have a map and it doesnt matter if i've been to the place once or not

these guys find their way , at night, thru acres of orchards, vineyards, back roads, etc, no problem.......

dont be so ethnocentric: beduins also can navigate kilometers of desert area w/o ever seeing a map.....

just some of us folks are dumb enought to need a map and not use relative landmarks (big tree, red roof, pond, outcropping of rock, store on corner, etc)

Edited August 15, 2005 by bina

[Diggerbasher]

Plenty of bods in the UK unable to read a map.Takes a bit of education i believe.

[udon]

Try this..... Open your map and give it to a Thai upside down..... the result is hilarious

[BambinA]

Try this..... Open your map and give it to a Thai upside down..... the result is hilarious

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

we can do here ... u find a map, put it here ..make it like a game then

Bambi

[buadhai]

dont be so ethnocentric:

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think we're being ethnocentric. Sometimes a map is simply the best way to figure out or tell someone how to get from point A to point B. In other situations, navigating by landmark is probably better.

I like maps, because I've always used them. Sadly, detailed maps are not available for much of Thailand, including the neighborhood where I live. (We're just off of Google's detailed aerial photos as well.)

Luckily for me we have a huge Coca Cola billboard, a cell phone antenna and a water tower that can all be seen from kilometers away. I sometimes use all three to get home when I've been out biking one of my random afternoon trails.

On that same line of thinking, I wonder if there is an evolutionary reason for the gender based differences in navigation techniques? Could it be that women, who stayed closer to home, could easily navigate using well-known landmarks while men, off foraging for food in perhaps unknown territory, needed to be able to navigate using direction and geometry because of the lack of known landmarks?