Thaksin Is Seen In South Africa This Week

[jdinasia]

You isolate my words "uneducated ill informed masses" and put in front of them "the usual foul ranting", so that it sounds like I am putting them down.

That most definitely wasn't my intent and if you read my words as written it doesn't sound that way.

Perhaps you'd like to share what you mean by 'his significance".

The words you use to describe the rural majority indicate your view point very clearly.They are the same words used by the quasi fascist Pad and I must admit many of the urban Sino-Thai middle class.I could go on at length but the main point to emphasize is that poor education does not mean lack of intelligence or political sophistication.

I already sketched out Thaksin's significance in my earlier post.I would be happy to elaborate but not in a bad tempered ranting exchange.If you want a civilised discussion I'm happy to do so.

Thanks Jayboy - those lowly educated frequenters of the Bangkok taverns with an opinion of the political situation you often slate in when attacking other posters will be very pleased to read this.

Not to mention the "Sino-Thai" (seems almost racist, huh?) that he also slates on a regular basis!

Education IS a real factor in making an informed decision and political sophistication doesn't often exist in the Kanman/political machine controlled areas of rural Thailand. I would agree that lack of education does not imply lack of intelligence though!

The urban middle classes (as they have emerged over the last 20 years) do tend to be better educated, do have more options than voting for the local political machine, and do tend to vote based upon their perception of reality in Thailand and not because someone is handing out some cash or making illegal campaign promises (or because their local kanman was paid to produce votes! They are NOT all "Sino-Thai" in fact none of my Thai family is "Sino-Thai". Most of them voted for Thaksin in 2001 and are extremely anti-Thaksin now. (MY partner's sister married into a Thai Chinese family --- but I have no idea how that family votes!)

I would point out that to continuously rant against the "Sino-Thai" is neither civilized nor "good tempered"

edit --- excuse my misuse of the word racist in the above post --- bigoted would be a more accurate word.

Edited December 6, 2010 by jdinasia

[jayboy]

I would point out that to continuously rant against the "Sino-Thai" is neither civilized nor "good tempered"

Very generous of you to acknowledge lack of education doesn't indicate lack of intelligence.If you had any knowledge of working class movements in the nineteenth century you would also know it doesn't imply lack of political sophistication.Indeed it is the demonstration of that sophistication in recent years that has so badly frightened the entrenched elite.The biggest misconception I believe is that the urban middle class is any less focused on their own selfish interests than the rural majority.

You are looking for racism where none exists.The expression Sino-Thai simply refers to Thais of Chinese origin and includes my wife and most of our friends.It remains a reality that the great majority of the PAD/yellow movement came from this grouping.Do you wish to simply bury this fact? Or just wanting to get into another bad tempered exchange.

Edited December 6, 2010 by jayboy

[jdinasia]

I would point out that to continuously rant against the "Sino-Thai" is neither civilized nor "good tempered"

You are looking for racism where none exists.The expression Sino-Thai simply refers to Thais of Chinese origin and includes my wife and most of our friends.It remains a reality that the great majority of the PAD/yellow movement came from this grouping.Do you wish to simply bury this fact?

The "great majority"? Please show us all documentation that suggest that the rank and file followers of the PAD from 2005-2008 were "Sino-Thai". The people that started gathering at Lumpini Park certainly were not. The majority of the people I met that attended the rallies certainly were not. It does appear that the majority of the leadership is. It also appears that the Reds are led by Thai Chinese as well

Please don't edit out the content of my posts.

[whybother]

I would point out that to continuously rant against the "Sino-Thai" is neither civilized nor "good tempered"

You are looking for racism where none exists.The expression Sino-Thai simply refers to Thais of Chinese origin and includes my wife and most of our friends.It remains a reality that the great majority of the PAD/yellow movement came from this grouping.Do you wish to simply bury this fact?

Are you saying all Sino-Thai's are PAD, just because the PAD is mainly made up of Sino-Thai. That's a bit like saying all red shirts are poor, uneducated, Thaksin loving farmers.

Edited December 6, 2010 by whybother

[jdinasia]

I would point out that to continuously rant against the "Sino-Thai" is neither civilized nor "good tempered"

You are looking for racism where none exists.The expression Sino-Thai simply refers to Thais of Chinese origin and includes my wife and most of our friends.It remains a reality that the great majority of the PAD/yellow movement came from this grouping.Do you wish to simply bury this fact?

Are you saying all Sino-Thai's are PAD, just because the PAD is mainly made up of Sino-Thai. That's a bit like saying all red shirts are poor, uneducated, Thaksin loving farmers.

Point of order ---- the rank and file of the PAD wasn't of Thai Chinese descent. The leadership was (as is much of the leadership of the UDD)

[jayboy]

I would point out that to continuously rant against the "Sino-Thai" is neither civilized nor "good tempered"

You are looking for racism where none exists.The expression Sino-Thai simply refers to Thais of Chinese origin and includes my wife and most of our friends.It remains a reality that the great majority of the PAD/yellow movement came from this grouping.Do you wish to simply bury this fact?

Are you saying all Sino-Thai's are PAD, just because the PAD is mainly made up of Sino-Thai. That's a bit like saying all red shirts are poor, uneducated, Thaksin loving farmers.

No I'm not saying that of course.I had hoped it wouldn't be necessary to clarify that.Let me just say that Thailand is wonderfully assimilated (in a large part to government policy and important cultural similarities) and most Sino-Thais don't even think of themselves in those terms.The odd thing is that some key figures on the Red side are also Thais of Chinese background (and I don't mean just Thaksin!)

[jayboy]

Point of order ---- the rank and file of the PAD wasn't of Thai Chinese descent. The leadership was (as is much of the leadership of the UDD)

Not all but the vast majority were.

[jayboy]

I would point out that to continuously rant against the "Sino-Thai" is neither civilized nor "good tempered"

You are looking for racism where none exists.The expression Sino-Thai simply refers to Thais of Chinese origin and includes my wife and most of our friends.It remains a reality that the great majority of the PAD/yellow movement came from this grouping.Do you wish to simply bury this fact?

The "great majority"? Please show us all documentation that suggest that the rank and file followers of the PAD from 2005-2008 were "Sino-Thai". The people that started gathering at Lumpini Park certainly were not. The majority of the people I met that attended the rallies certainly were not. It does appear that the majority of the leadership is. It also appears that the Reds are led by Thai Chinese as well

Please don't edit out the content of my posts.

Firstly on the editing of posts, I do when replying edit out parts to which I'm not responding.Indeed I believe forum admin encourages this to avoid endless repetition.If you think I have edited in any way to change your meaning or intent, please let me know.If I have inadvertently done this I apologise and let me know the details.

Now on the ethnic composition of PAD, I think you are completely wrong.I think the entire leadership and most of the rank and file were of Chinese background.I don't know how you know the people you met at the rallies were of one ethnicity or the other in a melting pot like Bangkok.If you don't mind me saying your call for documentation isn't really relevant.Most commentators would say more than half the Bangkok population is of mixed Thai and Chinese ancestry.There are of course Thai "ter" PAD supporters, mostly of the "karatchakarn" class.

[jdinasia]

Point of order ---- the rank and file of the PAD wasn't of Thai Chinese descent. The leadership was (as is much of the leadership of the UDD)

Not all but the vast majority were.

Again --- pure speculation on your part colored by your world view of Thailand. Certainly NOT my experience having been to several rallies. The rank and file were urban Thai with some mix of rural Thai. Not Thai Chinese. You make the claim that the PAD was "Sino Thai" in the "vast majority" of cases. Document it or it is just your colored opinion. If you are talking about leaders .. then I think we can agree that the leaders of both the PAD and UDD were mostly Thai Chinese.

[scorecard]

You isolate my words "uneducated ill informed masses" and put in front of them "the usual foul ranting", so that it sounds like I am putting them down.

That most definitely wasn't my intent and if you read my words as written it doesn't sound that way.

Perhaps you'd like to share what you mean by 'his significance".

The words you use to describe the rural majority indicate your view point very clearly.They are the same words used by the quasi fascist Pad and I must admit many of the urban Sino-Thai middle class.I could go on at length but the main point to emphasize is that poor education does not mean lack of intelligence or political sophistication.

I already sketched out Thaksin's significance in my earlier post.I would be happy to elaborate but not in a bad tempered ranting exchange.If you want a civilised discussion I'm happy to do so.

Shame on you, you continue to twist my words. I did not and never will make a comment suggesting that uneducated people are not intelligent. I did not and never will make a comment that the rural folks are lacking in intelligence. It is just not true, and there's plenty of examples in long-term world history to support the fact that many many people from many countries have contributed great things to their country and the world and did not have the opportunity for broad education.

In fact several weeks ago I tasked one of my MBA student groups to research this matter in regard to Thailand, and within the last 100 years. They already have a long list.

Why did I task them to do this? Because I spoke to them in class about the fact that high GPA does not automatically equate to high performance on the job, combined with a discussion about the high impact of natural behavioral competencies on organization success. (Well researched many times.) Many of the students were horrified at what I had told them and several strongly disputed what I had said. Therefore I gave them an assignnment to research this matter in regard to Thailand. As I said above, they already have a long list.

I say again, shame on you, twisting other peoples writings is not civilized, not honest, and does not contribute to a balanced discussion

Further, you mention that you will engage in some discussion re thaksins significance, "but not in a bad tempered ranting".

Well perhaps you should take a look in the mirror.

Edited December 6, 2010 by scorecard

[Insight]

Point of order ---- the rank and file of the PAD wasn't of Thai Chinese descent. The leadership was (as is much of the leadership of the UDD)

Not all but the vast majority were.

Generalizations. Great stuff. Just like the vast majority of poor and uneducated are probably unable to make the most informed decision on which way to vote, especially when the temptation of baht is put their way...?

[jayboy]

Point of order ---- the rank and file of the PAD wasn't of Thai Chinese descent. The leadership was (as is much of the leadership of the UDD)

Not all but the vast majority were.

Again --- pure speculation on your part colored by your world view of Thailand. Certainly NOT my experience having been to several rallies. The rank and file were urban Thai with some mix of rural Thai. Not Thai Chinese. You make the claim that the PAD was "Sino Thai" in the "vast majority" of cases. Document it or it is just your colored opinion. If you are talking about leaders .. then I think we can agree that the leaders of both the PAD and UDD were mostly Thai Chinese.

I may as well ask you to document your version.I won't however because it would be crass to do so.

The Bangkok urban class is largely a Sino-Thai one.If the PAD rallies simply reflected demographics it would imply a mainly Sino-Thai membership.Take into account the "sons of China" banners and accompanying racist rhetoric against ordinary Thais at those rallies, the appropriate assumptions can be drawn.Needless to say I wouldn't suggest for a moment that ordinary PAD members were of that view.Indeed I have always recognised the original impulse behind PAD was a noble one, even if it later became tarnished by its criminal leadership and their quasi fascist ideology.

I recognise you have no faith in my conclusions and therefore further debate is not productive.I can only suggest you talk to perceptive foreign residents of long standing, say over 20 years.They will perhaps tell you that when a Thai says "I am a Thai, one hundred percent", that is invariably a sign he is Sino-Thai.

[jayboy]

Further, you mention that you will engage in some discussion re thaksins significance, "but not in a bad tempered ranting".

When you are ready, I am happy to do so when so "tasked".

[Insight]

Thanks Jayboy - those lowly educated frequenters of the Bangkok taverns with an opinion of the political situation you often slate in when attacking other posters will be very pleased to read this.

You think it's a clever point but really it isn't.The farang element so strangely often supporters of repression in Thailand ( while often complaining about posh Tories at home) had in UK's wonderful welfare state every chance to educate themselves well.The poor of Thailand generally don't have that chance, and that's a key distinction.

Strange, I consider myself very much against repression, and I believe my political views represent that adequately. But you're free to disagree...

[jayboy]

Thanks Jayboy - those lowly educated frequenters of the Bangkok taverns with an opinion of the political situation you often slate in when attacking other posters will be very pleased to read this.

You think it's a clever point but really it isn't.The farang element so strangely often supporters of repression in Thailand ( while often complaining about posh Tories at home) had in UK's wonderful welfare state every chance to educate themselves well.The poor of Thailand generally don't have that chance, and that's a key distinction.

Strange, I consider myself very much against repression, and I believe my political views represent that adequately. But you're free to disagree...

From your posts, even while often disagreeing, I fully accept your decency and democratic principles.

The irony I was pointing out, perhaps too oddly parochially British, is the oddity of many UK expatriates not obviously ex members of the Bullingdon Club who swoon like schoolgirls over the posh Thai establishment yet at home would be profoundly sceptical of "posh <deleted>" like Cameron and Osborne.

[jdinasia]

Point of order ---- the rank and file of the PAD wasn't of Thai Chinese descent. The leadership was (as is much of the leadership of the UDD)

Not all but the vast majority were.

Generalizations. Great stuff. Just like the vast majority of poor and uneducated are probably unable to make the most informed decision on which way to vote, especially when the temptation of baht is put their way...?

Exactly ----

The OPINION of Jayboy is simply that. An Opinion not based in fact, but instead based upon his world view of Thailand. I do enjoy the way he throws the word "fascist" around, and "criminal" around though! I mean those words certainly couldn't be applied to Thaksin's authoritarian rule or the leaders of the UDD along with many of the followers (nor about TRT/PPP/PTP).

Funny though, how he would associate the PAD with "Sino-Thai" to the extent that he labels the vast majority of the PAD supporters that way (with no proof at all) yet fails to look at the leadership of the UDD. (granted he threw a dog a bone on that one ... but he did leave out the "sino-Thai" rhetoric he adds to the PAD (not just the leadership!) of fascist and criminal.)

He also managed to avoid addressing the rural Thai political machines that do control entire regions and avoid addressing the fact that the same type of political machine does not exist in BKK.

(It is kind of like the economist article that mentions not ALL UDD supporters are rural and not ALL UDD supporters are pro-Thaksin, but doesn't mention that the majority of the urban UDD supporters are either tied financially to Thaksin OR are first generation urban dwellers that still have to vote back home!)

I love his final point about how long you must be here to have an informed opinion His ad hominem attacks are becoming more subtle. I guess my now almost 8 years of living in Thailand (in multiple locations) and 16 years of spending time here before that, and studying the language enough to read the newspapers and watch the TV, and my constant interaction with Thais at every level of society don't account for much.

How do you know a perceptive foreigner? He's one that doesn't make blanket statements like "that is invariably a sign he is..."

[jayboy]

Point of order ---- the rank and file of the PAD wasn't of Thai Chinese descent. The leadership was (as is much of the leadership of the UDD)

Not all but the vast majority were.

Generalizations. Great stuff. Just like the vast majority of poor and uneducated are probably unable to make the most informed decision on which way to vote, especially when the temptation of baht is put their way...?

Exactly ----

The OPINION of Jayboy is simply that. An Opinion not based in fact, but instead based upon his world view of Thailand. I do enjoy the way he throws the word "fascist" around, and "criminal" around though! I mean those words certainly couldn't be applied to Thaksin's authoritarian rule or the leaders of the UDD along with many of the followers (nor about TRT/PPP/PTP).

Funny though, how he would associate the PAD with "Sino-Thai" to the extent that he labels the vast majority of the PAD supporters that way (with no proof at all) yet fails to look at the leadership of the UDD. (granted he threw a dog a bone on that one ... but he did leave out the "sino-Thai" rhetoric he adds to the PAD (not just the leadership!) of fascist and criminal.)

He also managed to avoid addressing the rural Thai political machines that do control entire regions and avoid addressing the fact that the same type of political machine does not exist in BKK.

(It is kind of like the economist article that mentions not ALL UDD supporters are rural and not ALL UDD supporters are pro-Thaksin, but doesn't mention that the majority of the urban UDD supporters are either tied financially to Thaksin OR are first generation urban dwellers that still have to vote back home!)

I love his final point about how long you must be here to have an informed opinion His ad hominem attacks are becoming more subtle. I guess my now almost 8 years of living in Thailand (in multiple locations) and 16 years of spending time here before that, and studying the language enough to read the newspapers and watch the TV, and my constant interaction with Thais at every level of society don't account for much.

How do you know a perceptive foreigner? He's one that doesn't make blanket statements like "that is invariably a sign he is..."

Probably a courtesy to address me with these points.

I agree "criminal" is a label that could be attached to Thaksin."Fascist" probably not:the characteristics match the PAD leadership more closely.

I don't regard "Sino_Thai" as an insult.Surely I have made that clear.

Most PAD followers were Sino-Thai.You don't believe me.I suggested you ask around.

How is the rural political machine set up relevant? Interesting but for a separate discussion surely.

Don't attach too much importance to my "20 year suggestion".The key thing is to talk to knowledgeable people.

Anybody can pretend what they want to be on a forum like this.Actually I believe you but it doesn't really adds weight to your stated opinions.It's very easy over a period of posts to see exactly the level of education, knowledge and social background.Your commitment and interest are commendable.I just wish you would give and take a bit more.We might even have a reasonable discussion.

[hammered]

Thanks Jayboy - those lowly educated frequenters of the Bangkok taverns with an opinion of the political situation you often slate in when attacking other posters will be very pleased to read this.

You think it's a clever point but really it isn't.The farang element so strangely often supporters of repression in Thailand ( while often complaining about posh Tories at home) had in UK's wonderful welfare state every chance to educate themselves well.The poor of Thailand generally don't have that chance, and that's a key distinction.

Strange, I consider myself very much against repression, and I believe my political views represent that adequately. But you're free to disagree...

From your posts, even while often disagreeing, I fully accept your decency and democratic principles.

The irony I was pointing out, perhaps too oddly parochially British, is the oddity of many UK expatriates not obviously ex members of the Bullingdon Club who swoon like schoolgirls over the posh Thai establishment yet at home would be profoundly sceptical of "posh <deleted>" like Cameron and Osborne.

Many expats from modest (cough cough) backgrounds out here think they have entered the ruling class on arrival as the locals are unable to explain in perfect Cockney, Geordie or Brum what a thingumyjig is and cant drive a car according to the proper Queensbury rules (or should that be Highway Code?) and never ever form queues you know old man. And of course we all "know" that all Thais are the same. And I say that coming from a family of construction and factory workers plus the odd rascal with or without a bulldog and recognize somany whio hail from the same nether regions even replete with their grafted on Queens accetn regimantal or MCC neck tie and faked degree.

Then again I never had much time for anyone of any class I cared to actually spend enough time to get to know unless they impressed me. Im sure Cameron and Ozzie Osbourne are fine chaps although persoanlly dont like their politics. How did Ozzie Osbourne get to be chancellor of that cute little briefcase by the way? I always thought he was biting the heads off of owls or bats or something, or maybe that was in his confederation of conservative students (banned) days. Anyway I shouldnt digress and have to admit that that nice Mr. Abhisit doesnt really do anything for me either and that actually I dont know many of the rukling elite in any country so find it hard to really judge them, but I did once have a good time pearning the genteller parts of London and the well heeled crowd when friendly with the wayward but connected son of a full army general not that I would be admitting that down the working class local coz all them toffs are tossers and ....

[scorecard]

Not all but the vast majority were.

Generalizations. Great stuff. Just like the vast majority of poor and uneducated are probably unable to make the most informed decision on which way to vote, especially when the temptation of baht is put their way...?

Exactly ----

The OPINION of Jayboy is simply that. An Opinion not based in fact, but instead based upon his world view of Thailand. I do enjoy the way he throws the word "fascist" around, and "criminal" around though! I mean those words certainly couldn't be applied to Thaksin's authoritarian rule or the leaders of the UDD along with many of the followers (nor about TRT/PPP/PTP).

Funny though, how he would associate the PAD with "Sino-Thai" to the extent that he labels the vast majority of the PAD supporters that way (with no proof at all) yet fails to look at the leadership of the UDD. (granted he threw a dog a bone on that one ... but he did leave out the "sino-Thai" rhetoric he adds to the PAD (not just the leadership!) of fascist and criminal.)

He also managed to avoid addressing the rural Thai political machines that do control entire regions and avoid addressing the fact that the same type of political machine does not exist in BKK.

(It is kind of like the economist article that mentions not ALL UDD supporters are rural and not ALL UDD supporters are pro-Thaksin, but doesn't mention that the majority of the urban UDD supporters are either tied financially to Thaksin OR are first generation urban dwellers that still have to vote back home!)

I love his final point about how long you must be here to have an informed opinion His ad hominem attacks are becoming more subtle. I guess my now almost 8 years of living in Thailand (in multiple locations) and 16 years of spending time here before that, and studying the language enough to read the newspapers and watch the TV, and my constant interaction with Thais at every level of society don't account for much.

How do you know a perceptive foreigner? He's one that doesn't make blanket statements like "that is invariably a sign he is..."

Probably a courtesy to address me with these points.

I agree "criminal" is a label that could be attached to Thaksin."Fascist" probably not:the characteristics match the PAD leadership more closely.

I don't regard "Sino_Thai" as an insult.Surely I have made that clear.

Most PAD followers were Sino-Thai.You don't believe me.I suggested you ask around.

How is the rural political machine set up relevant? Interesting but for a separate discussion surely.

Don't attach too much importance to my "20 year suggestion".The key thing is to talk to knowledgeable people.

Anybody can pretend what they want to be on a forum like this.Actually I believe you but it doesn't really adds weight to your stated opinions.It's very easy over a period of posts to see exactly the level of education, knowledge and social background.Your commitment and interest are commendable.I just wish you would give and take a bit more.We might even have a reasonable discussion.

1. Quote from jayboy: "I just wish you would give and take a bit more. We might even have a reasonable discussion." Well I say again, take a look in the mirror.

2. Whats' your ultimate point in you endless remarks that most of the PAD were/are Chinese-Thai. I don't agree with your assestion, but please share your ultimate point.

[scorecard]

Further, you mention that you will engage in some discussion re thaksins significance, "but not in a bad tempered ranting".

When you are ready, I am happy to do so when so "tasked".

And again you isolate some of my words so9 that my 'cut down' comment seems to give a different meaning. In other words you are dishonest!

It's simply not worth the trouble to continue any form of discussion with people who do things like this.

[eurasianthai]

Well, people in Thailand should care more about Thailand than about what Thaksin is doing.

What Thaksin is doing is irrelevant these days.

But what the Thai government is doing, is.

[animatic]

Well seem Noppadom is at it again.

Thaksin to visit US to testify against Thai govt: Noppadon

....Monday. Noppadon Pattama said Thaksin was invited to testify to the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe (CSCE) over the crackdowns on red-shirt protesters in May and April.

Noppadon said the CSCE has sent an invitation letter to Thaksin a few days ago and Thaksin has accepted the invitation.

-- The Nation 6/11/10

Except the CSCE says nothing at all about any Thailand hearings.

http://csce.gov/inde...ction=Home.Home

More blather from the legal attaché to the legally detaché

How can he testify on anything, since he wasn't there?

And his only connections he has with it, are by

repeatedly inciting, via international video and phone links,

the breaking of Thai laws.

Edited December 6, 2010 by animatic

[eurasianthai]

Did I say irrelevant, Animatic?

Waste of time discussing about Thaksin and missing the big picture.

Not a pretty one for Thailand actually.

[jayboy]

Further, you mention that you will engage in some discussion re thaksins significance, "but not in a bad tempered ranting".

When you are ready, I am happy to do so when so "tasked".

And again you isolate some of my words so9 that my 'cut down' comment seems to give a different meaning. In other words you are dishonest!

It's simply not worth the trouble to continue any form of discussion with people who do things like this.

Don't really understand your problem but if you don't want to engage, that's your right.

Pity really because I subsequently had a thought that might help with your MBA students who were so puzzled that uneducated people might be intelligent and capable of great things.You could have reminded them that a few generations ago many of their forefathers were illiterate unwashed peasants sweltering in the paddy fields of Swatow and Southern China, far more primitive conditions than the farmers of Thailand experience.Through emigration and hard work they produced descendants like your MBA students.

[eurasianthai]

Oops, I sure did not read the OP post carefully, because some of the answers in this thread do not make sense to me...

[animatic]

Did I say irrelevant, Animatic?

Waste of time discussing about Thaksin and missing the big picture.

Not a pretty one for Thailand actually.

Apparently you did, but while I was posting.

I think the point is that there is a concerted PR effort to make that Kuhn T. look more important than he is. And that extends to getting press here and keeping his name on the burners when ever possible. The rationality of many of the pronouncements are irrelevant, simply because much of the target audience has little idea if it's true or not, but it keeps him in the press, and his ego and local supporters seeing his presence. Of course the pervading idiocy of some of the ideas his PR put forward incessantly does call for countering with logical verifiable truths, since a lie told often enough can become a truth for the credulous or zealous.

Oh yes, a search of the CSCE reveals

0 records returned for "Thaksin"

Edited December 6, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

Further, you mention that you will engage in some discussion re thaksins significance, "but not in a bad tempered ranting".

When you are ready, I am happy to do so when so "tasked".

And again you isolate some of my words so9 that my 'cut down' comment seems to give a different meaning. In other words you are dishonest!

It's simply not worth the trouble to continue any form of discussion with people who do things like this.

Don't really understand your problem but if you don't want to engage, that's your right.

Pity really because I subsequently had a thought that might help with your MBA students who were so puzzled that uneducated people might be intelligent and capable of great things.You could have reminded them that a few generations ago many of their forefathers were illiterate unwashed peasants sweltering in the paddy fields of Swatow and Southern China, far more primitive conditions than the farmers of Thailand experience.Through emigration and hard work they produced descendants like your MBA students.

You are twisting his words yet again.

[eurasianthai]

I think the point is that there is a concerted PR effort to make that Kuhn T. look more important than he is.

There is indeed a concerted PR effort to make Thaksin responsible for the incompetence of the present Thai government.

[whybother]

I think the point is that there is a concerted PR effort to make that Kuhn T. look more important than he is.

There is indeed a concerted PR effort to make Thaksin responsible for the incompetence of the present Thai government.

Where has anyone said that?

Thaksin is responsible for enough crap, that he doesn't need to take on the responsibility for the current government.

[jayboy]

You are twisting his words yet again.

How?