Briton Found Naked, Tied To The Bars Of A Cell In Pattaya Police Station

[johna]

More Brit Embassy indifference, par for the course.

[Beetlejuice]

This is something totally unacceptable; he looks like someone from the Auschwitz. Death camp. And appears he has been beaten and starved.

It`s obvious the guy has extreme physical and mental problems and that no one wants to take any responsibility so why not simply let him die and sweep the matter under the carpet. If this were a dog people would be up in arms about in.

When I was a young child an Aunt told me that a human life is the most precious thing on Earth. Later I came to realise that this is all <deleted>. Looking at the photos has ruined the start of my day, heartbreaking for sure.

I in no way blame the Thai police, because there is no infrastructure in Thailand for dealing with situations like this. But there is no excuse for the lack of concern by the British foreign office. He should be taken back to the UK and put into care. I am sure that if this guy were some wanted drug dealer or high profile criminal the British authorities would be bending over backwards to have him brought back to blighty.

This is an absolutely disgusting affair and as for holding a British passport, they can shove it where the sun don't shine, it`s worthless and means nothing.

This proves that the cesspit Pattaya requires sanitizing. Restore it back to the resort it used to be 15 years ago instead of being a magnet for the world's undesirables.

Edited December 9, 2010 by Beetlejuice

[moetownblues]

Thai people don't treat thier dogs this bad. Just goes to show where the farang comes on the pecking order. I could not possibly imagine a western country treating a Thai citizen like this they would receive medical and psych help and treated with a little respect that humans should.

.

[KhunAussie52]

United we stand,divided we fall!!:jap:

[geriatrickid]

Before some of you shuffle off to line up, drop your adult diapers and participate in the mass pissing on the UK Embassy, does anyone know what one of the major complaints of foreign consuls is? The failure of Thai authorities to give timely notice when a foreign national is arrested or detained. Your outrage at the UK foreign service would be justified if it had been given proper notice.

Yes, the state of the person was deplorable and unacceptable to a westerner. Unfortunately, this is the state of mental health care in Thailand. How do you think Thais are treated? Often, the mentally ill end up in prison where they are abused by both guards and other inmates. There is a lack of mental health care in Thailand.

In Total there are;

UK: 58 beds per 100,000 population. and 11 psychiatrists per 100,000 population, 58 social workers per 100,000 population

Thailand: 14 beds per 100,000 population, 0.6 psychiatrists per 100,000 population, 0.6 social workers per 100,000 population

The treatment choice in Thailand is to drug patients. In the UK, the treatment choice is therapy, care and medication.

Can you understand now why the man was handcuffed to bars in a jail? This is the Thai approach, the Thai way of mental health care. Handcuffing and disgarding he mentally ill is how it is done in Thailand. If you find this part of Thailand disturbing, then consider volunteering with one of the NGOs. Mr. Drummond was able to highlight one sad case. Sadly, there are tens of thousands of people just like this man hidden from public view.

More specific information

There are no day treatment facilities in Thailand. The only residential facilities are for people with mental retardation and substance abuse. There are 25 community-based psychiatric units with 0.4 beds per 100,000 population and 17 mental hospitals with 13.8 beds per 100,000 population. The rate of users in community based inpatient units is 173 per 100,000 population and in mental hospitals is 158 per 100,000 population. The majority of patients admitted to mental hospitals have a diagnosis ofschizophrenia. All forensic beds are located in one mental hospital for security reasons. It wasestimated that most admissions to mental hospitals and inpatient units are involuntary.

Source: WHO AIMS COUNTRY REPORT FOR THAILAND, 2006

[theoldgit]

Come on Howard, waddle down to Soi 9 and do your job. I assume they pay you.

No he is not paid, apart from a tiny honorarium.

Edited December 9, 2010 by theoldgit

[theoldgit]

Common sense tells us that if the police took up a collection to help the man the odds are pretty high that they had notified the British consulate.

The conditions he was in are disgusting.

They re not the fault of the policemen some bureaucratic cheap charlie pulled that off and probably made some money at it..

Not sure how some one can read the article and make excuses for the British Consulate and flame the police.

I know that hear in Chiang Mai that they have refused to help two of there citizens.

If someone is detained the detaining authority takes full responsibility for them and has a duty of care, it's an absolute cop-out for the Pattaya Police to say it's not our responsibility it's the Immigration police. I'm not flaming the police but as you say the conditions this chap was kept in were inhumane, in fact the conditions appear to defy every international basic standard, the allegation that the poor guy was handcuffed to the cell bars beggars belief.

Whilst I applaud the police for apparently having a collection to helping this guy, the fact remains that they were detaining him and it is they who have the duty of care, I'm not flaming the police but if Andrew Drummond is to be believed, they were clearly not doing their job.

Every country in the world detains foreign nationals, the authority detaining is fully responsible for their care not the appropriate embassy.

[beano2274]

If anyone thinks the Embassy did not know then read the article again.

Copied and pasted from the first article

They are awaiting on a decision from the British Embassy in Bangkok. But will, or should, the British government cough up for his treatment?

Seems they were aware and never did a thing, I bet no-one even visited the poor guy.

[sirchai]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

This man appears to be just one of the city’s casualties.

When I've read this, I started to hate some of LOS's people. Unfortunately, people can come, spent all their cash by getting married, including a big house, cars and expensive medicine for his mother in law, brother's accidents and other lies.

Where's the Farlang police, the superficial tourist police, mostly people from the UK?

But the problem could be that they might not even like each other, because they're from different parts in the UK?

This guy shouldn't certainly be in prison, who knows this guy??? :jap:

[SomTumTiger]

i am not responsible for any other brit ,

especially a person who does not control his alchol or drugs intake. :jap:

Then we are agreed

[sirchai]

Well it would seem a private citizen came to his aid.

Here in Chiang Mia the British consulate is next to useless also. I personally know of two cases where a British citizen needed help and was turned away. Thankfully a Christian organization helped them out.

Roman catholic or Protestant?

[theoldgit]

'Might not have taken up post'. "Consular staff may not have been informed". 'numerous reports that they do a pretty good job" et. etc. Can you verify such reports? This particular situation would not seem to fit with your assumptions. If you don't know whether they are/are not allowed into custodial areas then probably best not to comment on things that are based on guesswork, opinion or bias! (Do you have a personal interest here by any chance?).

It would seem to me the police were waiting for The British Embassy to get off their ***ess and do something for this poor guy. Not sure it is the Thai authorities who should be ashamed of themselves on this one TBF!

British Embassy....................

The advert for the new member of staff on the prison team indicated that the successful applicant was due to take up post in late December, so it's reasonable to assume that they had not taken up post yet.

I have visited numerous people in Thai prisons, doing my bit for society, have you done the same? To one they have all told me that consular officials have been very supportive and cannot be faulted, I have read a number of reports on Thai Visa, and other forums, thanking the visit team for their support, I don't have the time or inclination to look them up but if you think I am lying, then so be it.

I know that in my home country Consular Officials meet their countrymen in the legal visits areas and are not allowed into custodial areas, I have also been told by prisoners in Thailand that when they are seen by embassy staff it's in visit areas. So I think my knowledge is based on first hand experience and international standards and certainly not on guesswork, opinion or bias, and no I don't have a personal interest, I assume you are equally qualified to comment?

It may well be that the police were waiting for The British Embassy to get off their ***ess, but the fact remains that the detaining authority has a duty of care for those they detain, it's no good blaming another police force or consular officials, you detain you take care.

I applaud the individual police officers for showing compassion and taking a collection to give this poor guy some help, but the fact remains they should be treating him with dignity and maintaining minimum internationally accepted standards.

Of course the Consular Staff could do better, who couldn't, but remember they are responsible for all British Nationals, as well as Hong Kong Nationals, detained throughout Thailand and Laos, and I think it's reasonable for them to accept that the Thai authorities would conform to minimum standards, and that doesn't include handcuffing him to the cell bars or using a plastic bottle as a pillow.

[Deeral]

THe incompetent underbelly of Thailand

where was Howard Miller? - surely with his connections with the police he must have known about this man?

Edited December 9, 2010 by Deeral

[LivinLOS]

What exactly are you guys expecting the consulate to do?

You are abroad, you are not in the UK anymore.

How about get him out of the dungeon hes in.. Contact family.. Even pay for repatriation.. We can spend billions on bailing out rich bankers but not a few 100 quid to get him to uk social services ??

Howard Miller sure can spend his time putting his mug into a documentary but cant even find the time to publish this guys plight in one of the rags hes connected to ?? A little media attention was all it took.

Edited December 9, 2010 by LivinLOS

[Pib]

Gosh, this is a back eye on the British Embassy and Thai Police...but I expect the Thai police ain't too worried about another black eye.

Will see over the coming days how the British Embassy handles this...but even if they did try to help already they will definitely need to do a lot more now, and I'm sure the Thai Govt will want all the help they can get to fix the issue and get this ugly news story put to bed fast! And I can just see those in the tourism business just shaking their heads because of the number of potential tourists who will read this story and just say, "We ain't going to Thailand for our vacation."

[waza]

THe incompetent underbelly of Thailand

where was Howard Miller? - surely with his connections with the police he must have known about this man?

For a man who makes his living from the expat community he seems very reluctant to put his hand in his pocket to help one out. Lucky for this guy that an Angel was there to show how compassion is given, and Andrew Drummond to publicise his plight.

Edited December 9, 2010 by waza

[theoldgit]

What exactly are you guys expecting the consulate to do?

You are abroad, you are not in the UK anymore.

How about get him out of the dungeon hes in.. Contact family.. Even pay for repatriation.. We can spend billions on bailing out rich bankers but not a few 100 quid to get him to uk social services ??

I would certainly support repatriation, especially given the amount spent by the UK Government repatriating foreign nationals from the UK, be they failed asylum seekers or time expired foreign national prisoners.

[LivinLOS]

What Andrew Drummond has reported is an absolute disgrace and a shocking indictment on the lack of care provided by the Thai authorities, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

It's also an absolute disgrace and shocking indictment on the lack of concern by the British authorities in Thailand, they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

You speak as though they knew of it before the publicity.

Did they? And how do you know?

Many people of all nationalities fall between the cracks here, as they're so wide.

Reading the news piece might help.. It has HM's comments in that !!

[raylo]

What exactly are you guys expecting the consulate to do?

You are abroad, you are not in the UK anymore.

Exactly. Brittania no longer rules the waves, its countries, colonies or even its own citizens.

Does not matter what citizenship you hold there is a large amount of responsibility to be borne on ones shoulders

when you go overseas.

Also read the full article. The guy has had previous issues to this.

[creck]

'Might not have taken up post'. "Consular staff may not have been informed". 'numerous reports that they do a pretty good job" et. etc. Can you verify such reports? This particular situation would not seem to fit with your assumptions. If you don't know whether they are/are not allowed into custodial areas then probably best not to comment on things that are based on guesswork, opinion or bias! (Do you have a personal interest here by any chance?).

It would seem to me the police were waiting for The British Embassy to get off their ***ess and do something for this poor guy. Not sure it is the Thai authorities who should be ashamed of themselves on this one TBF!

British Embassy....................

The advert for the new member of staff on the prison team indicated that the successful applicant was due to take up post in late December, so it's reasonable to assume that they had not taken up post yet.

I have visited numerous people in Thai prisons, doing my bit for society, have you done the same? To one they have all told me that consular officials have been very supportive and cannot be faulted, I have read a number of reports on Thai Visa, and other forums, thanking the visit team for their support, I don't have the time or inclination to look them up but if you think I am lying, then so be it.

I know that in my home country Consular Officials meet their countrymen in the legal visits areas and are not allowed into custodial areas, I have also been told by prisoners in Thailand that when they are seen by embassy staff it's in visit areas. So I think my knowledge is based on first hand experience and international standards and certainly not on guesswork, opinion or bias, and no I don't have a personal interest, I assume you are equally qualified to comment?

It may well be that the police were waiting for The British Embassy to get off their ***ess, but the fact remains that the detaining authority has a duty of care for those they detain, it's no good blaming another police force or consular officials, you detain you take care.

I applaud the individual police officers for showing compassion and taking a collection to give this poor guy some help, but the fact remains they should be treating him with dignity and maintaining minimum internationally accepted standards.

Of course the Consular Staff could do better, who couldn't, but remember they are responsible for all British Nationals, as well as Hong Kong Nationals, detained throughout Thailand and Laos, and I think it's reasonable for them to accept that the Thai authorities would conform to minimum standards, and that doesn't include handcuffing him to the cell bars or using a plastic bottle as a pillow.

The excellent and (I assume) honest post has a couple of strange items I would like to comment on.

First, it is most certainly wrong for any organisation in a position like a foreign delegation to Assume that local authorities are adhering to international standards when dealing with their own countries citizens. It seems to me that an important part of their duty is to ensure that this happens.

Second, I do not believe that British delegations are in any way responsible for Hong Kong nationals. Even twenty years ago, I discovered that a Hong Kong national working with me in China could get no assistance or recognition from the British staff because he was travelling on Chinese papers. I am sure that now (Hong Kong is part of China) any Hong Kong resident would be treated the same as any Chinese citizen – unless he had a British Passport.

[pattayabuggy]

My emotion, what the <deleted> am I doing here living in this Cesspit of a country, disgusting Thailand. The police are also the biggest problem here, they are a disgrace they are!

[farangpattaya]

as a Brit this is a disgusting story, i thought consul had been replaced by well kown Pattaya resident, note the omission of hounary, one before same catergory. only decent one was D Covey in Samui. this should cost somebody in Bangkok there job. time they all read the mission statement again.

Wait wait, so the Thai police creates a problem and the UK Embassy/Consul has to solve it?

As far as I know, Embassies do have a strict policy on those cases, and if a UK citizen is "impounded" in a police cell, he may have not been registered.

All the blame goes to the Royal Thai Police and the Pattaya Police in specific; did the victim has aids? was this tested? why was the prisoner naked? did he do that himself? all questions.........and of course no answers.

[newermonkey]

Isnt it about time the British honorary consul started to actually help its citizens? I guess if he had been an American their consul would have helped him out long ago?

[raylo]

My emotion, what the <deleted> am I doing here living in this Cesspit of a country, disgusting Thailand. The police are also the biggest problem here, they are a disgrace they are!

If you dont like it go home. If it is that bad then indeed why are you here and why do you denigrate the country?

We are here on sufferance with limited rights.Not like some people who feel they have the inalienable right of

position no matter where they go.

In the UK do they aspire to middle class and here expect to be recognised as prime ministers because of race and

skin colour?

[anterian]

In the course of my travels I have had dealings with several British embassies, in my opinion they are a waste of the taxpayer's money. as to Honorary Consuls, they are simply ineffective self seeking busy bodies.

[Suradit]

Can you imagine the uproar from Thai people if this happened to a Thai national in the U.K. ?

... and the Thai embassy did nothing about it just like the UK Embassy has done nothing.

If he's been deported before, presumably back to the UK, and appears to be in mental & medical distress, whatever medical/social services exist in the UK should have helped him, and if he's known to have been in a Pattaya gaol for as much as 3 months, why has the UK Embassy and local British community not rallied round to help him? Why should it fall to the Thai police to provide care for him if his own countrymen can't be bothered? Would you prefer they dumped him back on the street or maybe pay for months on end in some private care facility? It's a sad case, but blaming Thais for his plight is not justified.

[travelmann]

What do you do when loads of ex pats turn up here live for a few years and then have no money?? they made the decision to come why should the UK tax payer bail them out, anyone coming should have full medical cover BUT many come with nothing and also little funding, oh how I would love to drop everything and come here but until I have enough money for 99% of all circumstances I wont.

Its a hard thing to do as my wife is here and we are still 3 years away from living together permanenlty, its called planning and being responsible its not nice but then ending up like this is worse, why do they risk it?.

I dont know the full story of this man or "why" he was where he was.

People need to take more responsibiltiy for their own welfare otherwise Thailand will be full of people wanting their country to bail them out.

I dont want my embassy bailing out all and sundry who turn up on a whim with no financial support or at the very least not enough money to take a flight home when things go wrong.

Are the conditions bad here in Thai jails, yes!!! so those folk out there already on limited money take note and go now.

I applaud the woman who bailed him out, if she has to do this every week the novelty will wear off pretty soon.

Be responsible not irresponsible, id like to know the causes of this mans downhill slide.

Edited December 9, 2010 by travelmann

[raylo]

Isnt it about time the British honorary consul started to actually help its citizens? I guess if he had been an American their consul would have helped him out long ago?

As previously stated there are questions and answers. We just dont what has preceded this.

Get the facts and make a knowledgable comment!

[hungryhippo]

What exactly are you guys expecting the consulate to do?

You are abroad, you are not in the UK anymore.

Costs them almost nothing to give the guy some food and clothes those guys at the embassy are making English wages in Thailand. The money to supply it even out of their own pockets would be nothing to them.

[moskito]

I thought the Embassy or the Consul were informed of people placed in jails if they were British citizens.

I also remember the British Embassy advertising for someone to check up on all British prisoners in Thai jails, the person who took that job has only just started.

A few people best hang their heads in shame.

Well done to Tracy.

Are you really belive there is much time left for the Embassy staff to take care for issues like these? There are much more important things to do. Lunch, Dinners, Receptions, talks about next holidays etc. etc. A single human beeing will not bother the suits in no Embassy in Thailand. I made same experiences with the german Embassy in Sri Lanka once when my best friend died there in a motobike accident. They told me to wait until they finished their lunch and just let me in after I went bananas.

I am sure this poor guy is not a single incident in LoS....all the best to him, at least he is a human.