Thousands Of Red Shirts Protest In Bangkok

[gregb]

Perhaps jayjay should have qualified his request for one genuine apology. If he had, we'd still be waiting. In the absence of that qualifier, we have one hollow, disingenuous "apology" from Weng.

There will never be a genuine apology by the red shirts, because Thaksin refuses to admit he did anything wrong. Try and bring up his misdeeds, and all you hear are his red shirt minions screaming that "the other guy did it too". It makes no difference to them whether or not the other guy's deeds were truly as abhorrent.

Guess what? I don't care what someone else did, and a genuine apology does not attempt to justify criminal actions by comparing the egregious acts to those of someone else. A genuine apology is a heartfelt admission that you recognize the error of your ways. And only after you have made such a statement, can you even think to bring up the failings of others.

So, show me one statement by Thaksin apologizing for the way he brutalized Thailand, and admitting that the coup was not simply an evil plan by the elite to get rid of him. Show me even a single instance where he admits what he did was wrong, and doesn't try to rationalize it by saying someone else did worse.

If you plan on waiting for an apology of this nature, you will be waiting a long time. Thaksin and the other red shirt leaders don't have the courage or integrity to admit such a thing. At least Abhisit tries to show some humility. Despite the cess pool he operates in, at least he is someone I could admire.

[mkawish]

Hey now ... the Reds are strong and POPULAR most particularly in Thaksin's homeland of Chiang Mai! There were at least 100 of them at 3 kings monument tonight!

Were they till sober?

I am wondering if you are? Is English your second language? Why would you bother insulting people who support something? I can understand you may disagree with them, but why just comment as you have - you seem to be a bit of a <deleted>.

Because I don't like people who try to destroy the nation for the greed of one man.

Show me one link where the red shirts have come out and said we were wrong we should not have turned a peaceful demonstration into a urban war with the intention of bringing back a known criminal to run the country.

What is the difference if my first language is other than English? Do you feel that makes a difference? Do you feel that having English as a first language makes you better. Kind of like being a political correct bigot?

Here you go, 2 links where Red shirts apologized for the problems they have caused.

http://www.euronews....-hospital-raid/

Kuffi

Do you really understand Thai language that well to surmize that the 1st video clip is an apology from the reds??????

On the contrary, the video is posting numerous very good questions to viewers to reexamine themselves, the destruction, the situations and motives of what happened during those fateful days.

Kuffi dear--even JaTooPorn himself would not apologize claiming that it was a necessary step toward true democracy and most importantly--he did not do it.

This is not a personal attack on anyone, particularly Kuffi whom I thank for posting the video links but the messages and questions in video #1, did not originate from reds.

Edited December 11, 2010 by metisdead

[truethailand]

Why is that when a new post about anything red appears the same faces are all over it like flies around sh1t.

[MaiChai]

Hopefully the government has learned something from the last demonstration in that you cannot allow a protest to get out of hand. My opinion is protests can be peaceful and for a short period of time (no longer than a day). They cannot be allowed to prolong and turn into an urban war with little consideration for the people who live and work in the demonstration area.

Why is Jutaporn allowed to be free? I just don't get it?

[rubl]

Why is that when a new post about anything red appears the same faces are all over it like flies around sh1t.

Look in the mirror and ask

[jdinasia]

Hey now ... the Reds are strong and POPULAR most particularly in Thaksin's homeland of Chiang Mai! There were at least 100 of them at 3 kings monument tonight!

Were they till sober?

As sober as a judge, allegedly, though I can't answer for judges, nobody can apparently.

Actually ... some were sober and some appeared not to be.

Kuffki --- the links you posted were not apologies per se. One was a justification with the caveat that they would not return to the hospital. The other was not any form of apology at all.

[AGareth2]

nice to see it was uneventful

[hanuman1]

nice to see it was uneventful

Quite. I wonder how many more peaceful demonstrations it will take before those labeling the entire red shirt movement as a 'violent organization' start to think more deeply about their mantra.

Do those same people still consider Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party a violent organization? And what about the 2 Koreas - they never signed a peace treaty much less apologized for anything - are those nations/governments also 'violent organizations'?

Sometimes certain prominent red bashers risk painting themselves into a corner with their generalizations.

[asiawatcher]

I thought Jatuporn was arrested and refused bail for failing to show up in court. Has he been granted another bail?

Yep - stupid is as stupid continues to do....

[ukfool]

"We want our leaders to be released," opposition lawmaker Jatuporn Prompan told Friday's gathering.

"All the Red Shirts must be released across the country," added Jatuporn, who enjoys parliamentary immunity and is one of the few leaders in the movement not in jail.

A movement which wants democracy might stop first demanding 'release our leaders' before mentioning the common red-shirts in prison (even if they don't mean it).

I think Jatuporn should join his comrades in jail if he thinks they are being treated unfairly

I think possibly the current government too ? quote 'arrest hundreds of suspects and silence anti-government media' Great freedom and democracy ? Hmmm China, North Korea, hang on it's Thailand

[ukfool]

'arrest hundreds of suspects and silence anti-government media'

Great freedom and democracy ?

Hmmm China, North Korea, hang on it's Thailandisn't it ?

[rubl]

'arrest hundreds of suspects and silence anti-government media'

Great freedom and democracy ?

Hmmm China, North Korea, hang on it's Thailandisn't it ?

Well ukfool, while you're at it maybe add the UK to your list

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/nov/16/fitwatch-website-closed-police

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/nov/03/uk-us-website-al-qaida-videos

(edit: add second link)

Edited December 11, 2010 by rubl

[hansnl]

Another 5000 tourists less?

Another 250 people out of work?

Good show!

Just what the people really need!

Edited December 11, 2010 by hansnl

[scorecard]

nice to see it was uneventful

Quite. I wonder how many more peaceful demonstrations it will take before those labeling the entire red shirt movement as a 'violent organization' start to think more deeply about their mantra.

Here we go again. Many many Thais know very well that the gap between the rich and the poor is far too big and is, longer term, highly undesirable let alone unfair, let alone dangerous.

Many many Thais know that Thailand needs to urgently achieve a scenario where a much much larger percentage of the population have greater opportunty to actually prosper.

Many many Thais know that Thailand needs to urgently develop and implement polices and infrastrucure which generates opportunty and ultimately provides a much higher standard of living for a large percentage of all Thais through their own productivity.

There are several powerful drivers needed to achieve such change. On is a party which has platforms which are aimed at such change. Another driver is a middle class which is articulate and can debate specificaly and in practical detail how to achieve such change in a structured way, a middle class movement which has credibility and that same credibility also means power at the ballot box (but not power through violence).

Now please don't tell me that the current red shirt people, their paymaster, their local leaders, and the vast majority of their followers fit the description above.

All through the red shirt rallies, speeches, and mob actions there was not one word spoken about structured approaches to building real democrcay, not one word spoken about specific legislation or government policy which would actually achieve these changes.

The rallies etc., were all one way events, never once was there any two way discussion.

Further in your text you mention Sinn Fein and I guess they have changed.

Right now I don't see any sign whatever which indictaes that the red shirts are changing into a well informed and articulate movement (free from the clutches of a ruthless and nasty paymaster) and I don't see any indications of a movement which aims at gaining credibility through structured dialogue rather than violence and hate speeches and paid attendance rallies.

During the red ralllies and mob violence and since then jatuporn (nor their other leaders) has never once given a structured, detailed or insightful presentation about building a strong democracy nor about achieveing social change.

During the red ralllies and mob violence and since then the PTP party (which nobody can deny is in bed with the red movement) has never once given a structured, detailed or insightful presentation about building a strong democracy nor about achieveing social change.

Do those same people still consider Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party a violent organization? And what about the 2 Koreas - they never signed a peace treaty much less apologized for anything - are those nations/governments also 'violent organizations'?

Sometimes certain prominent red bashers risk painting themselves into a corner with their generalizations.

Edited December 11, 2010 by scorecard

[newermonkey]

What do these red shirts gain by destroying tourism?

What is the percentage of res shirts compared to the "normal" population, about 3% ?

Edited December 11, 2010 by newermonkey

[SouthernMan3]

This is a bunch of crap !

The red shirts are a violent and unruly group of bums paid for by tacky, that are causing a peaceful and wonderful country to have problems that do not exist.

When there is no money and no whiskey, there are no red shirts.

Tacky is a power hungry crazy man and Thailand is better off without him !

If he cared about Thai people he would have given every Thai person 1 million baht and still had 10 billion left.

But no, he had to have it all.

Now he can not even step foot in his own birth country.

He sleep with gold and no quam sook !

Good riddance to him.

May he forever play golf with the George Bushes of the world and leave Thailand alone !!!

[Just1Voice]

I am defending no one, but would like to point something out. Thaksin was convicted of "abuse of power" by signing a document for his wife to purchase land, which he is legally required to do by Thai Law. The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power".

However, just a couple of months ago the courts ruled that the land deal was "null & void", and that Dr. T's wife had to give the land back, and that she also get her money back, plus interest.

So, if the courts have ruled the transaction as "null & void", legally that means it never happened. If this is the case, then the conviction for "abuse of power" also has to be "null & void", because you can't convict someone of a "crime" that never took place. Then again, TIT, so who knows?

[animatic]

nice to see it was uneventful

Quite. I wonder how many more peaceful demonstrations it will take before those labeling the entire red shirt movement as a 'violent organization' start to think more deeply about their mantra.

Here we go again. Many many Thais know very well that the gap between the rich and the poor is far too big and is, longer term, highly undesirable let alone unfair, let alone dangerous.

Many many Thais know that Thailand needs to urgently achieve a scenario where a much much larger percentage of the population have greater opportunty to actually prosper.

Many many Thais know that Thailand needs to urgently develop and implement polices and infrastrucure which generates opportunty and ultimately provides a much higher standard of living for a large percentage of all Thais through their own productivity.

There are several powerful drivers needed to achieve such change. On is a party which has platforms which are aimed at such change. Another driver is a middle class which is articulate and can debate specificaly and in practical detail how to achieve such change in a structured way, a middle class movement which has credibility and that same credibility also means power at the ballot box (but not power through violence).

Now please don't tell me that the current red shirt people, their paymaster, their local leaders, and the vast majority of their followers fit the description above.

All through the red shirt rallies, speeches, and mob actions there was not one word spoken about structured approaches to building real democrcay, not one word spoken about specific legislation or government policy which would actually achieve these changes.

The rallies etc., were all one way events, never once was there any two way discussion.

Further in your text you mention Sinn Fein and I guess they have changed.

Right now I don't see any sign whatever which indictaes that the red shirts are changing into a well informed and articulate movement (free from the clutches of a ruthless and nasty paymaster) and I don't see any indications of a movement which aims at gaining credibility through structured dialogue rather than violence and hate speeches and paid attendance rallies.

During the red ralllies and mob violence and since then jatuporn (nor their other leaders) has never once given a structured, detailed or insightful presentation about building a strong democracy nor about achieveing social change.

During the red ralllies and mob violence and since then the PTP party (which nobody can deny is in bed with the red movement) has never once given a structured, detailed or insightful presentation about building a strong democracy nor about achieveing social change.

Do those same people still consider Northern Ireland's Sinn Fein party a violent organization? And what about the 2 Koreas - they never signed a peace treaty much less apologized for anything - are those nations/governments also 'violent organizations'?

Sometimes certain prominent red bashers risk painting themselves into a corner with their generalizations.

Many still consider Sinn Fien a violent organization.

And the Koreas only signed a cease fire,

there has never been a peace treaty, war is still declared technically.

[animatic]

I am defending no one, but would like to point something out. Thaksin was convicted of "abuse of power" by signing a document for his wife to purchase land, which he is legally required to do by Thai Law. The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power".

However, just a couple of months ago the courts ruled that the land deal was "null & void", and that Dr. T's wife had to give the land back, and that she also get her money back, plus interest.

So, if the courts have ruled the transaction as "null & void", legally that means it never happened. If this is the case, then the conviction for "abuse of power" also has to be "null & void", because you can't convict someone of a "crime" that never took place. Then again, TIT, so who knows?

No it is null and void BECAUSE he signed the paper illegally. That was and still is the crime.

So the null and void followed the conviction, because that erased the validity of the deal,

But his signing for her to buy it still happened, and she still signed to buy the land using an illegal document, until the sale was voided.

Could he sack the boss of the guy who signed her purchase agreement, yes was the answer,

so the descending chain of power under him was the cause for his conviction.

Edited December 11, 2010 by animatic

[rubl]

I am defending no one, but would like to point something out. Thaksin was convicted of "abuse of power" by signing a document for his wife to purchase land, which he is legally required to do by Thai Law. The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power".

However, just a couple of months ago the courts ruled that the land deal was "null & void", and that Dr. T's wife had to give the land back, and that she also get her money back, plus interest.

So, if the courts have ruled the transaction as "null & void", legally that means it never happened. If this is the case, then the conviction for "abuse of power" also has to be "null & void", because you can't convict someone of a "crime" that never took place. Then again, TIT, so who knows?

I'm not sure about the 'null and void', more 'the sale should be reversed / undone'. That doesn't effect the case against k. Thaksin. As PM he was in a glasshouse and should be an example for Thai in actions & morals. If he wanted to stay in business he shouldn't have become PM.

[Just1Voice]

I am defending no one, but would like to point something out. Thaksin was convicted of "abuse of power" by signing a document for his wife to purchase land, which he is legally required to do by Thai Law. The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power".

However, just a couple of months ago the courts ruled that the land deal was "null & void", and that Dr. T's wife had to give the land back, and that she also get her money back, plus interest.

So, if the courts have ruled the transaction as "null & void", legally that means it never happened. If this is the case, then the conviction for "abuse of power" also has to be "null & void", because you can't convict someone of a "crime" that never took place. Then again, TIT, so who knows?

No it is null and void BECAUSE he signed the paper illegally. That was and still is the crime.

So the null and void followed the conviction, because that erased the validity of the deal,

But his signing for her to buy it still happened, and she still signed to buy the land using an illegal document, until the sale was voided.

Could he sack the boss of the guy who signed her purchase agreement, yes was the answer,

so the descending chain of power under him was the cause for his conviction.

With all due respect, you sound like one of the coup appointed judges looking for "technicality loopholes". In legal terms "null & void" means, IT NEVER HAPPENED. If it never happened, then he can't be guilty of anything. It means the deal never happened, she never got the land, the agency selling it didn't sell it and didn't get any money for it, so that also means he never signed an illegal document.

[scorecard]

I am defending no one, but would like to point something out. Thaksin was convicted of "abuse of power" by signing a document for his wife to purchase land, which he is legally required to do by Thai Law. The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power".

However, just a couple of months ago the courts ruled that the land deal was "null & void", and that Dr. T's wife had to give the land back, and that she also get her money back, plus interest.

So, if the courts have ruled the transaction as "null & void", legally that means it never happened. If this is the case, then the conviction for "abuse of power" also has to be "null & void", because you can't convict someone of a "crime" that never took place. Then again, TIT, so who knows?

QUOTE:

"The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power". "

Lots of mistakes in your post:

1. The courts did not stretch anything. The law on this matter is specific and as clear as a bell. Be clearly broke the law. Fact.

Whether it was a 'coup appointed' (your words, not mine) court or whether the judges were appointed through any processs, he clearly broke a specific law.

2. You say "defacto". This word is not even appropriate for the sitaution at hand. As PM he is respsonsible to ensure there is zero conflict of interest, and he is also resposnsible to sure that he and his ministers, cvil servants etc., be squeaky clear and in so doing set an example of high values / high morals. He broke the law.

3. Whats also true in this matter is that knew very well that what he was doing and knew that it was totally illegal, but he went ahead anyway. In other words he thought he and his family were above the law.

[Just1Voice]

I am defending no one, but would like to point something out. Thaksin was convicted of "abuse of power" by signing a document for his wife to purchase land, which he is legally required to do by Thai Law. The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power".

However, just a couple of months ago the courts ruled that the land deal was "null & void", and that Dr. T's wife had to give the land back, and that she also get her money back, plus interest.

So, if the courts have ruled the transaction as "null & void", legally that means it never happened. If this is the case, then the conviction for "abuse of power" also has to be "null & void", because you can't convict someone of a "crime" that never took place. Then again, TIT, so who knows?

QUOTE:

"The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power". "

Lots of mistakes in your post:

1. The courts did not stretch anything. The law on this matter is specific and as clear as a bell. Be clearly broke the law. Fact.

Whether it was a 'coup appointed' (your words, not mine) court or whether the judges were appointed through any processs, he clearly broke a specific law.

2. You say "defacto". This word is not even appropriate for the sitaution at hand. As PM he is respsonsible to ensure there is zero conflict of interest, and he is also resposnsible to sure that he and his ministers, cvil servants etc., be squeaky clear and in so doing set an example of high values / high morals. He broke the law.

3. Whats also true in this matter is that knew very well that what he was doing and knew that it was totally illegal, but he went ahead anyway. In other words he thought he and his family were above the law.

Spoken like a true Democrat/Yellow Shirt PAD.

Your own argument is "full of holes". The court CLEARLY CITED the "abuse of power" by claiming that as PM he is/was, "defacto" head of every government agency, therefore, according to them, there was a "conflict of interest" and "abuse of power".

But you are missing, or simply refusing (I'm not sure which) to recognize the fact that if the courts later claimed the deal was "null & void", then his conviction for "abuse of power" is also null and void because, LEGALLY, the deal never happened in the first place.

As as for your comments about him, as well as his cabinet and ministers all being "squeaky clean", I challenge you to name me JUST ONE PM in the history of Thailand who has managed to do that. Believe it or not, I like Abhist, and believe he is a good man, but a good man at perhaps the wrong time. I believe that in his heart he truly does want to do what is right for Thailand, but as an old saying goes: It's hard to soar with eagles when you're surrounded by turkeys. Or in his case, vultures.

[Siripon]

,As as for your comments about him, as well as his cabinet and ministers all being "squeaky clean", I challenge you to name me JUST ONE PM in the history of Thailand who has managed to do that. Believe it or not, I like Abhist, and believe he is a good man, but a good man at perhaps the wrong time. I believe that in his heart he truly does want to do what is right for Thailand, but as an old saying goes: It's hard to soar with eagles when you're surrounded by turkeys. Or in his case, vultures.

So when is it the right time for a good man like Apisit to appear? In the next life in the afternoon?

There are several decent Democrats in the government, people like Khun Korn,Jurin and Ong-Art, Khun Chuan himself still plays a vital role in the party.

The reality of Thai politics is rule by fiefdoms,the patronage system controlled by influential local figures. Thaksin tried to control them by buying them all up, Apisit is trying to make Thai society fairer and more transparent legally, step by step, policies to help the poor that are sustainable; but of course the dinosaurs such as Pumjaithai try to trip him up with such plans as their wholesale sweeteners to the อบต,the doubling of salaries to local councillors.

It's a folorn hope, but I hope before the next election there are Democrat candidates in Issan that can rival the tired old faces such as Pairote.

[phetaroi]

...Is English your second language? Why would you bother insulting people who support something?...

Let's take your statement at face value.

You respect the KKK because those people support a way of life.

You respect Adolph Hitler because he supported a certain political view.

You respect Idi Amin because he supported a certain way of running a government.

Now, do you still agree with the statement you wrote?

[scorecard]

I am defending no one, but would like to point something out. Thaksin was convicted of "abuse of power" by signing a document for his wife to purchase land, which he is legally required to do by Thai Law. The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power".

However, just a couple of months ago the courts ruled that the land deal was "null & void", and that Dr. T's wife had to give the land back, and that she also get her money back, plus interest.

So, if the courts have ruled the transaction as "null & void", legally that means it never happened. If this is the case, then the conviction for "abuse of power" also has to be "null & void", because you can't convict someone of a "crime" that never took place. Then again, TIT, so who knows?

QUOTE:

"The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power". "

Lots of mistakes in your post:

1. The courts did not stretch anything. The law on this matter is specific and as clear as a bell. Be clearly broke the law. Fact.

Whether it was a 'coup appointed' (your words, not mine) court or whether the judges were appointed through any processs, he clearly broke a specific law.

2. You say "defacto". This word is not even appropriate for the sitaution at hand. As PM he is respsonsible to ensure there is zero conflict of interest, and he is also resposnsible to sure that he and his ministers, cvil servants etc., be squeaky clear and in so doing set an example of high values / high morals. He broke the law.

3. Whats also true in this matter is that knew very well that what he was doing and knew that it was totally illegal, but he went ahead anyway. In other words he thought he and his family were above the law.

Spoken like a true Democrat/Yellow Shirt PAD.

Your own argument is "full of holes". The court CLEARLY CITED the "abuse of power" by claiming that as PM he is/was, "defacto" head of every government agency, therefore, according to them, there was a "conflict of interest" and "abuse of power".

But you are missing, or simply refusing (I'm not sure which) to recognize the fact that if the courts later claimed the deal was "null & void", then his conviction for "abuse of power" is also null and void because, LEGALLY, the deal never happened in the first place.

As as for your comments about him, as well as his cabinet and ministers all being "squeaky clean", I challenge you to name me JUST ONE PM in the history of Thailand who has managed to do that. Believe it or not, I like Abhist, and believe he is a good man, but a good man at perhaps the wrong time. I believe that in his heart he truly does want to do what is right for Thailand, but as an old saying goes: It's hard to soar with eagles when you're surrounded by turkeys. Or in his case, vultures.

Well let me point out the holes in your assertions:

1. I don't know where you get the word 'defacto' from and i'm not disputing that it may come from a report or discussion paper or something similar, but I still suggest that it's not really the appropriate word.

2. Your claim that because of more recent events that his conviction is now null and void holds no water.

What you seem to be saying is that if a thief breaks into your house and steals some very valuable items and if subsequently caught and convicted of theft and sentenced to a punishment, then later the items are found somwehere (but in fact nothing has changed, the thief still in fact did steal the items), then because they have been found the crime is now cancelled and the punishment should be cancelled. Sorry but I just can't agree with this idea.

There's another point in this discussion that should also be mentioned although it's just a little distant from the main points. At the time pojaman bought the land, she had a large team of professional people at her fingertips in her suite in shin tower and this included several highly experienced lawyers, plus she had immediate access to the beaurocrats and technocrats in every ministry. She would have known very well that what she was doing was ultimately illegal because of her husbands status as PM.

3. If you read a few of my posts you would quickly realize that I have written numerous times in criticism of the PAd and the UDD. The idea that people are either red or yellow (let me hasten to add that I'm not saying you mentioned this concept), is rubbish and I really wish that more people would see this point.

4. I think you are right that It would be difficult to find many Thai PMs who were totally clean, however I don't see that it changes anything. Because many previous PMs were corrupt doesn't mean that it's therefore OK for thaksin or anybody to be corrupt / abuse their authority or whatever.

However, in broad terms I do agree with your comments about PM Abhisit, and I would add his sidekick Khun Korn, they are the best option for Thailand right now and I hope for quite a while, to consolidate a new era / new thinkng / honest and much more sincere people in parliament / new highly capable people heading the ministries.

I also agree that right now they are surounded by, as you put it, vultures. I have another way to say this: Abhisit and Korn work all day every day in a snakepit, including snakes from their own party.

[TAWP]

I am defending no one, but would like to point something out. Thaksin was convicted of "abuse of power" by signing a document for his wife to purchase land, which he is legally required to do by Thai Law.

Are you really this clueless?

He is *not* legally required to sign it. He can say 'no, dear, I am the PM and am not allowed to be involved in this land deal, it is against anti-corruption statures. Besides, people are starting to talk why the only other bidders are who they are and why they bid so much under the market-price, making you win by default'.

But he didn't, since he was involved.

[DickFarang]

"We want our leaders to be released," opposition lawmaker Jatuporn Prompan told Friday's gathering.

"All the Red Shirts must be released across the country," added Jatuporn, who enjoys parliamentary immunity and is one of the few leaders in the movement not in jail.

A movement which wants democracy might stop first demanding 'release our leaders' before mentioning the common red-shirts in prison (even if they don't mean it).

I think Jatuporn should join his comrades in jail if he thinks they are being treated unfairly

I think possibly the current government too ? quote 'arrest hundreds of suspects and silence anti-government media' Great freedom and democracy ? Hmmm China, North Korea, hang on it's Thailand

Do not forget Myanmar.

[Lite Beer]

Off topic post deleted.

[animatic]

I am defending no one, but would like to point something out. Thaksin was convicted of "abuse of power" by signing a document for his wife to purchase land, which he is legally required to do by Thai Law. The coup appointed courts stretched the law about as far as they could, finally coming up with the "rationale" that since he was PM, he was "defacto" head of all government agencies, therefore he "abused his power".

However, just a couple of months ago the courts ruled that the land deal was "null & void", and that Dr. T's wife had to give the land back, and that she also get her money back, plus interest.

So, if the courts have ruled the transaction as "null & void", legally that means it never happened. If this is the case, then the conviction for "abuse of power" also has to be "null & void", because you can't convict someone of a "crime" that never took place. Then again, TIT, so who knows?

No it is null and void BECAUSE he signed the paper illegally. That was and still is the crime.

So the null and void followed the conviction, because that erased the validity of the deal,

But his signing for her to buy it still happened, and she still signed to buy the land using an illegal document, until the sale was voided.

Could he sack the boss of the guy who signed her purchase agreement, yes was the answer,

so the descending chain of power under him was the cause for his conviction.

With all due respect, you sound like one of the coup appointed judges looking for "technicality loopholes". In legal terms "null & void" means, IT NEVER HAPPENED. If it never happened, then he can't be guilty of anything. It means the deal never happened, she never got the land, the agency selling it didn't sell it and didn't get any money for it, so that also means he never signed an illegal document.

Again wrong. He signed the document allowing her to buy it specifically.

At that instant it became illegal, even if the sale was thrown out later.

He still did it BEFORE it was voided.

The ONLY reason the sale was voided was because

his authorization of her purchase was illegal.

Illegal first, voided second.

Cart comes AFTER horse.

Edited December 11, 2010 by animatic