Engine Problem . .

[oMega69]

Any one having simular problem ? .,

When my bike is from 0-10km/h automatik the engine vibrates so u can feel it all the way up in the steering bar . ,

Very enoying... it feels more when the engine is cold . , only 2200km on the clock . , but i did upgrade with a Irridium spark plug., maybe my bike dont like it .,

Any guess? ., the Honda shop cant see any problem. ,

[floridaguy]

Well, a couple of possibilities, but let's focus on what changed. I will assume that it didn't do this before the plugs were changed. If so, then it is probably a misfire. The low RPM's amplify the problem, until higher RPM's where it will seem to smooth out. The easiest check is swap plugs with a new plug of the OEM recommended type and see if the problem disappears. If not, check the plug cables, check ignition. Are the plugs seated correctly? Gapped correctly? Is the plug wire seated correctly? Are there any cracks in the plug wires? Any cracks in the ceramic of the plug? Is the plug wire properly seated on the ignition coil? Did anything fall into the cylinder when the plugs were changed? Some plugs require electric grease. Check the ignition coil, does it produce the required energy to drive your iridium plugs? Good battery connection? Good ground?

Also, is it unrelated to the plugs? Balanced wheels? Tires properly inflated? Loose connections from the ground up to the handle bars?

Good luck.

Edited December 14, 2010 by floridaguy

[oMega69]

Well, a couple of possibilities, but let's focus on what changed. I will assume that it didn't do this before the plugs were changed. If so, then it is probably a misfire. The low RPM's amplify the problem, until higher RPM's where it will seem to smooth out. The easiest check is swap plugs with a new plug of the OEM recommended type and see if the problem disappears. If not, check the plug cables, check ignition. Are the plugs seated correctly? Gapped correctly? Is the plug wire seated correctly? Are there any cracks in the plug wires? Any cracks in the ceramic of the plug? Is the plug wire properly seated on the ignition coil? Did anything fall into the cylinder when the plugs were changed? Some plugs require electric grease. Check the ignition coil, does it produce the required energy to drive your iridium plugs? Good battery connection? Good ground?

Also, is it unrelated to the plugs? Balanced wheels? Tires properly inflated? Loose connections from the ground up to the handle bars?

Good luck.

Thanks for the Reply

Yes for sure the first thing is to go back to the stock spark plug and see if the problem being solved. If not then next step as u say . ,

Its so hopeless to see this mechanics at Honda they are mostly clueless.

The thing is that many riders use this DENSO UI22 for PCX and a never heard any problem before . ,

[MrEarl]

Engine vibrations are often subjective symptoms. Especially as you've described it.

The scooter is nearly new, 2200kms.

Did you buy the scooter new? Are you going to the same dealer where it was originally purchased.

Why on earth would you change the spark plug?

Was the original one faulty?

Did the dealer do the change?

Has the scooter had it's initial servicing yet?

So far the picture being painted is one of a fussy customer.

It's likely the service advisor rolls his eyes when he sees you coming.

[BSJ]

the Honda shop cant see any problem.

That's strange! Normally they see it, but they just can't believe it!

Take it to another dealer. After 2200kms it should be running like a top.

[Drag0nboy]

I have a bike rental business here in Chalong and have had this problem on some of my bikes - my mechanic said the same thing "no problem no worry" dispite me constantly explaining to him and even taking him on the bike to show him - "No problem!!" was his answer.

I tried:

Checking/ changing tyre pressure

Wheel Alignment

Suspension Alignment

Engine Tick over (tuning) / Fuel Mixture - cleaning carb etc

As a final resort I even checked the front brake calipers were not seizing and gripping the disc - replacing the disc and calipers soveld the issues finally so that might be it. But try all other avenues first as this is quite expensive.

Good luck and hope it helps.

[katabeachbum]

I have a bike rental business here in Chalong and have had this problem on some of my bikes - my mechanic said the same thing "no problem no worry" dispite me constantly explaining to him and even taking him on the bike to show him - "No problem!!" was his answer.

I tried:

Checking/ changing tyre pressure

Wheel Alignment

Suspension Alignment

Engine Tick over (tuning) / Fuel Mixture - cleaning carb etc

As a final resort I even checked the front brake calipers were not seizing and gripping the disc - replacing the disc and calipers soveld the issues finally so that might be it. But try all other avenues first as this is quite expensive.

Good luck and hope it helps.

same, one year old airblade PGMFi with 3-4k km, vibrations at low speed acc, and when braking slightly, new rotor solved it

comon on click and airblade, not noticed yet on PCX

hondas auotos seem much more load sensitive than yammys and sukis, obviously a non perfect rotor is sufficient to make it vibrate

[oMega69]

I have a bike rental business here in Chalong and have had this problem on some of my bikes - my mechanic said the same thing "no problem no worry" dispite me constantly explaining to him and even taking him on the bike to show him - "No problem!!" was his answer.

I tried:

Checking/ changing tyre pressure

Wheel Alignment

Suspension Alignment

Engine Tick over (tuning) / Fuel Mixture - cleaning carb etc

As a final resort I even checked the front brake calipers were not seizing and gripping the disc - replacing the disc and calipers soveld the issues finally so that might be it. But try all other avenues first as this is quite expensive.

Good luck and hope it helps.

Hi .,

Just change back to original NGK sparkplug ., and still same problem ., BUT i did upgrade to a bigger racing front disc brake , as u say. , that could be the problem ! ., but maybe not ! .... as the problem is worse when the bike is cold . , so it still looks like a engine problem . ,

[Scuddy]

To the OP

If you could mention the model of your bike I may be able to narrow the problem down, especially as it's a Honda.

You mentioned that it's more apparent when cold, does this mean that the problem still persists but to a lesser degree when the engines warm?

Could you describe the vibrations you feel and how the bike feels as it pulls away. Does it pull smoothly? Or, does it feel just a touch sluggish? The vibrations that you say you're feeling through the handlebars, are these more like judders and fairly strong in sensation which clear as the speed increases? Are these vibrations felt every time you pull away from a stop, while the engine is still running?

Edited December 16, 2010 by Scuddy

[oMega69]

I have a bike rental business here in Chalong and have had this problem on some of my bikes - my mechanic said the same thing "no problem no worry" dispite me constantly explaining to him and even taking him on the bike to show him - "No problem!!" was his answer.

I tried:

Checking/ changing tyre pressure

Wheel Alignment

Suspension Alignment

Engine Tick over (tuning) / Fuel Mixture - cleaning carb etc

As a final resort I even checked the front brake calipers were not seizing and gripping the disc - replacing the disc and calipers soveld the issues finally so that might be it. But try all other avenues first as this is quite expensive.

Good luck and hope it helps.

same, one year old airblade PGMFi with 3-4k km, vibrations at low speed acc, and when braking slightly, new rotor solved it

comon on click and airblade, not noticed yet on PCX

hondas auotos seem much more load sensitive than yammys and sukis, obviously a non perfect rotor is sufficient to make it vibrate

This is what my first concern was ! "Rotor" you think Honda will change this on warranty ? ., should be okey its still a mechanical part . "5 years engine warranty"

[oMega69]

To the OP

If you could mention the model of your bike I may be able to narrow the problem down, especially as it's a Honda.

You mentioned that it's more apparent when cold, does this mean that the problem still persists but to a lesser degree when the engines warm?

Could you describe the vibrations you feel and how the bike feels as it pulls away. Does it pull smoothly? Or, does it feel just a touch sluggish? The vibrations that you say you're feeling through the handlebars, are these more like judders and fairly strong in sensation which clear as the speed increases? Are these vibrations felt every time you pull away from a stop, while the engine is still running?

Hi .

Its a Honda PCX 4month old ., when bike is warm its almost not noticeable ., when engine is cold and about 10min after start when pull from zero engine vibrates heavily all bike is shaking from 0-10km/h., the bike runs on Fuel injection and runs smoothly all the way ., with Benzine 91 .

So its appear when the first gear in the automatic kicks in ., and If i starting from uphill then it feels 200% more . . ., strange thing is when engine is warm the problem come back like 20% of the time.

Edited December 16, 2010 by oMega69

[Scuddy]

To the OP

If you could mention the model of your bike I may be able to narrow the problem down, especially as it's a Honda.

You mentioned that it's more apparent when cold, does this mean that the problem still persists but to a lesser degree when the engines warm?

Could you describe the vibrations you feel and how the bike feels as it pulls away. Does it pull smoothly? Or, does it feel just a touch sluggish? The vibrations that you say you're feeling through the handlebars, are these more like judders and fairly strong in sensation which clear as the speed increases? Are these vibrations felt every time you pull away from a stop, while the engine is still running?

Hi .

Its a Honda PCX 4month old ., when bike is warm its almost not noticeable ., when engine is cold and about 10min after start when pull from zero engine vibrates heavily all bike is shaking from 0-10km/h., the bike runs on Fuel injection and runs smoothly all the way ., with Benzine 91 .

So its appear when the first gear in the automatic kicks in ., and If i starting from uphill then it feels 200% more . . ., strange thing is when engine is warm the problem come back like 20% of the time.

The problem is in your transmission (drive belt/variator/clutch housing).

Your drive belt has already started to wear and a black sooty/powder deposit is being left inside the transmission casing. This soot/powder has now contaminated your rollers and clutch. The contamination in your clutch is causing it to slip during take off and is the reason for the vibrations/shuddering you're experiencing.

The only way this can rectified is to disassemble the transmission and use compressed air to blast all the soot/powder out, fit a new drive belt and clutch facings, as the originals are now glazed and cannot get enough bite/friction.

There is a possibility of secondary problems with still using the bike and that's undue stress being put on the rear wheel bearings and they too may need replacing - You can check this your self by placing the bike on it's centre stand and loosing off the rear drum brake fully. Now spin the rear wheel. If you can hear a metallic grating/grinding sound then the rear wheel bearing may also need to replaced.

You need to get your bike into the workshop and checked as soon as possible!

Scuddy

[VocalNeal]

So its appear when the first gear in the automatic kicks in ., and If i starting from uphill then it feels 200% more . . ., strange thing is when engine is warm the problem come back like 20% of the time.

Can you determine if it is when the clutch engages or when the CVT starts to change gear. CVT is pretty much engaged all the time so sounds like clutch.

What does it do if you do a "stall speed" test. Ie try and drive away with all the brakes on.

Although as you have changed the front disc..........You could try levering the pads away from the disc and trying it.

[Scuddy]

So its appear when the first gear in the automatic kicks in ., and If i starting from uphill then it feels 200% more . . ., strange thing is when engine is warm the problem come back like 20% of the time.

Can you determine if it is when the clutch engages or when the CVT starts to change gear. CVT is pretty much engaged all the time so sounds like clutch.

What does it do if you do a "stall speed" test. Ie try and drive away with all the brakes on.

Although as you have changed the front disc..........You could try levering the pads away from the disc and trying it.

This is not a test you need to do to, and under the circumstances totally ill advised! (sorry Vocal)

The bikes drive belt and clutch are already slipping quite badly and performing the 'stall test' will only compound the issue and cause the transmission to overheat further. This could lead to the belt snapping and causing more damage.

Please take it your dealer and get it checked as soon as possible.

[oMega69]

So its appear when the first gear in the automatic kicks in ., and If i starting from uphill then it feels 200% more . . ., strange thing is when engine is warm the problem come back like 20% of the time.

Can you determine if it is when the clutch engages or when the CVT starts to change gear. CVT is pretty much engaged all the time so sounds like clutch.

What does it do if you do a "stall speed" test. Ie try and drive away with all the brakes on.

Although as you have changed the front disc..........You could try levering the pads away from the disc and trying it.

This is not a test you need to do to, and under the circumstances totally ill advised! (sorry Vocal)

The bikes drive belt and clutch are already slipping quite badly and performing the 'stall test' will only compound the issue and cause the transmission to overheat further. This could lead to the belt snapping and causing more damage.

Please take it your dealer and get it checked as soon as possible.

I will . , thank you for that information !

[oMega69]

Back from Service now . . , after an internal cleaning with high pressure air and change of automatic gear oil , Now the engine runs smoothly again . .

[Drag0nboy]

Back from Service now . . , after an internal cleaning with high pressure air and change of automatic gear oil , Now the engine runs smoothly again . .

Glad its all sorted - just a thought as I run about 20 bikes as a rental business and every month change the engine oil and get them to check the gearbox oil (change that every three months) I know you dont need to but its only 180 THB max and it really helps the engine.... like I said I find it helps my bikes keep running smooth. Plus if there are any issues your mechanic should catch them on the regular service - mine checks all the brakes, tire preasures, lights and all fluids. Good luck and hope it runs smoothly for you.

just out of interest what are the PCX like to drive any good been thinking of adding them to my fleet of bikes

[oMega69]

Back from Service now . . , after an internal cleaning with high pressure air and change of automatic gear oil , Now the engine runs smoothly again . .

Glad its all sorted - just a thought as I run about 20 bikes as a rental business and every month change the engine oil and get them to check the gearbox oil (change that every three months) I know you dont need to but its only 180 THB max and it really helps the engine.... like I said I find it helps my bikes keep running smooth. Plus if there are any issues your mechanic should catch them on the regular service - mine checks all the brakes, tire preasures, lights and all fluids. Good luck and hope it runs smoothly for you.

just out of interest what are the PCX like to drive any good been thinking of adding them to my fleet of bikes

Hi ., after next real service "4000km" i will go over to Full Syntetic Oil ., The PCX is the best city bike build this days ., and you can take 250-300 THB per day for them ., good build quality, low on the gasoline, comfortable even longer distance,

[Scuddy]

Back from Service now . . , after an internal cleaning with high pressure air and change of automatic gear oil , Now the engine runs smoothly again . .

Glad its all sorted - just a thought as I run about 20 bikes as a rental business and every month change the engine oil and get them to check the gearbox oil (change that every three months) I know you dont need to but its only 180 THB max and it really helps the engine.... like I said I find it helps my bikes keep running smooth. Plus if there are any issues your mechanic should catch them on the regular service - mine checks all the brakes, tire preasures, lights and all fluids. Good luck and hope it runs smoothly for you.

just out of interest what are the PCX like to drive any good been thinking of adding them to my fleet of bikes

Hi ., after next real service "4000km" i will go over to Full Syntetic Oil ., The PCX is the best city bike build this days ., and you can take 250-300 THB per day for them ., good build quality, low on the gasoline, comfortable even longer distance,

Glad your bike is running ok now.

But you need to be aware that although they cleaned the debris from the transmission it hasn't cured the problem. And changing the transmission oil wasn't necessary.

It will start to slip again soon, the belt has already started to wear prematurely. The more the belt wears the more likely it will break which could lead to even more damage.

Belt wear/damage is easily identified as small cracks between the teeth (PCX drive belts are toothed).

As soon as the transmission starts to slip again get the belt and clutch shoes replaced. If the clutch shoes aren't replaced at the same time as the belt the contaminated clutch shoes will cause the new belt to slip and you will be back at square one.

Regards,

Scuddy

Edited December 20, 2010 by Scuddy