Foreign Tourist Arrivals In Thailand Hit 15.7-15.8 Million This Year

[philhal2]

The main reasons why Thailand is still on travellers' destination lists is their impression of Thai hospitality and services along with the country's landscapes and natural resources in different regions.

Surely, they can do better than that?

I believe that the principal reason why tourists are still coming is that the large multinationals and some of the major Thai hotel investors have put together some attractive packages. This means reducing some of the tour package costs. I don't know if anyone subscribes to the Nok Air emails, but just this week, Nok was offering some attractive package deals for Chiang Mai and Phuket. Strategic marketing and business analysis.

Hospitality? Sorry, but the Thai resorts are not any better than other resorts. You get what you pay for. It's no better and no worse than elsewhere.

Services? Is that a polite term for entertainment zone companions?

Country's landscapes? Please. Deforestation, pollution & overdevelopment have made some of Thailand's gems no different than other tourist destinaions.

Natural resources? Ummm yea, ok.

Give credit where credit is due. Many of the tourist industry players scrambled to keep people coming and they sharpened their pencils, charmed some of the tour vendors and worked hard to get those numbers.

I read with amazement at some of the comments proliferating on this site and think about why ??

My best guess is that many of you have been in Thailand to long and having passed on many of your bad habits and attitudes to the locals are now reaping what you have sown .

I think its high time many of you returned to your origional countries and stay long enough to get a real good dose of REALITY and see that there is a good reason tourists come to Thailand in large numbers and return regulary .

it is to escape the misery of the places they live . There isnt much to be said about the " Home Country " of expats other than its overpriced , over rated , too much crime , a mountain of misery for the average person and has nothing much left in the way of decency or good living .

Check the Stats and look at the people who have lost their homes , their jobs and everything else they need .

Get over yourselves and stop whining about Thailand or go back to the miserable holes you came from .

Philhal

[mungostjohn]

I suspect that the 14 day non-visa entry (by land) instead of the old 30 day entry could

make the tourist arrival numbers a little higher also. One person staying 28 days could

actually count as two when he has to exit/enter a second time.

[jayjay0]

The main reasons why Thailand is still on travellers' destination lists is their impression of Thai hospitality and services along with the country's landscapes and natural resources in different regions.

Surely, they can do better than that?

I believe that the principal reason why tourists are still coming is that the large multinationals and some of the major Thai hotel investors have put together some attractive packages. This means reducing some of the tour package costs. I don't know if anyone subscribes to the Nok Air emails, but just this week, Nok was offering some attractive package deals for Chiang Mai and Phuket. Strategic marketing and business analysis.

Hospitality? Sorry, but the Thai resorts are not any better than other resorts. You get what you pay for. It's no better and no worse than elsewhere.

Services? Is that a polite term for entertainment zone companions?

Country's landscapes? Please. Deforestation, pollution & overdevelopment have made some of Thailand's gems no different than other tourist destinaions.

Natural resources? Ummm yea, ok.

Give credit where credit is due. Many of the tourist industry players scrambled to keep people coming and they sharpened their pencils, charmed some of the tour vendors and worked hard to get those numbers.

I read with amazement at some of the comments proliferating on this site and think about why ??

My best guess is that many of you have been in Thailand to long and having passed on many of your bad habits and attitudes to the locals are now reaping what you have sown .

I think its high time many of you returned to your origional countries and stay long enough to get a real good dose of REALITY and see that there is a good reason tourists come to Thailand in large numbers and return regulary .

it is to escape the misery of the places they live . There isnt much to be said about the " Home Country " of expats other than its overpriced , over rated , too much crime , a mountain of misery for the average person and has nothing much left in the way of decency or good living .

Check the Stats and look at the people who have lost their homes , their jobs and everything else they need .

Get over yourselves and stop whining about Thailand or go back to the miserable holes you came from .

Philhal

Man o Man did you ever hit the nail on the head.

For the last two years I have returned to North America for a family reunion and visit's. Both times I stayed a month and a half Two long weeks to long. I can afford to live there but I much prefer Thailand. The customs that I don't under stand the friendly people. The scenic countryside the relaxed life style. I have two sisters and a brother retired. They don't seem to have time for them selves always go go.

I used to joke about it before I moved here I was retired and said I think I will get a job so I can have some time for myself. I would never have the time to cruise the forums. much less take part in them.

Truth is some of them want to go back but they can not afford to live there. And some of them would like to go back but they are not wanted there with there constant stream of negativity. Or the price of hookers is to high.

I just spent some time on the local Chiang Mai forum. There was talk of a restaurant starting to hold its own. It is one of three and not in a particularly high tourist area kind of a up and coming one. At any rate one of the posters said that many restaurants are starting to hold there own. And as I have said before the area I live in has in my opinion more tourists than the last three years. I am in no way saying October or November or any other month was great what I am saying here in December we are showing a marked improvment. They are coming but the numbers are suspicious.

Edited December 19, 2010 by jayjay0

[ESB7]

What twaddle..................we all know that everywhere is absolutly dead and its December.....quite all year.....the true figure is a fraction of what they are saying, and then if you take away border runners and Burmeese labour etc you are left with a few million.........these guys remind me of David Brent......talk something and it has to be real regardless.....

[spidermike007]

Phuket has shot its load .(.like many of the sex tourists who used to frequent the place!)If it wasn't for Jetstar flying direct flights into Phuket from Australia at the moment they would be even in a worse situation than they already are..Reason being is ozzie dollar is one of the few currencies holding up against the thai baht on a weekly basis right now so Australians are still better off than many nationalities because of this.TAT are living in a dream world at the moment and only have themselves to blame as they cut their advertising budget in Australia by 30% last year for example ..then after the red shirt debarcle asked the Australian travel industry for ideas and submissions for kick starting a campaign again to stimulate tourism from Australia to there !Meanwhile tourism numbers for Vietnam and Fiji kept on rising here along with even Bali increasing its numbers again.Thai airways didn't help by keeping airfares high for a prolonged period after the red shirt demonstrations and only offered discounts on all in package holidays..in what was supposed to be their 50th Aniversary campaign!All in all a marketing disaster and many agents are still smarting after the double wammy of last years airport lock down and as with potential /holiday makers..can you blame them?The Thai mentality of farangs will just keep coming back regardless as before sadly isn't the reality anymore,as other destinations compete and offer more affordable value for money alternatives.Challenging times ahead in many facets of the tourist industry in Thailand right now like it or not!

Very accurate comments. The TAT is DEFINITELY cooking it's books. Who are they fooling. Anyone can just look around and see that the tourists are not here. A friend mine is a GM at a 5 star resort here in Samui. He told me he spoke to a Thai gal who books cabaret events for the hotels in Samui. She had 8 bookings for Christmas week. All 8 HAVE CANCELLED! All 8 of the hotels said that their bookings were do far down from normal, they could not afford to do the show! That is normally the busiest week of the year. Who is the TAT fooling? Do we look stupid, or what?

[a51mas]

The main reasons why Thailand is still on travellers' destination lists is their impression of Thai hospitality and services along with the country's landscapes and natural resources in different regions.

Surely, they can do better than that?

I believe that the principal reason why tourists are still coming is that the large multinationals and some of the major Thai hotel investors have put together some attractive packages. This means reducing some of the tour package costs. I don't know if anyone subscribes to the Nok Air emails, but just this week, Nok was offering some attractive package deals for Chiang Mai and Phuket. Strategic marketing and business analysis.

Hospitality? Sorry, but the Thai resorts are not any better than other resorts. You get what you pay for. It's no better and no worse than elsewhere.

Services? Is that a polite term for entertainment zone companions?

Country's landscapes? Please. Deforestation, pollution & overdevelopment have made some of Thailand's gems no different than other tourist destinaions.

Natural resources? Ummm yea, ok.

Give credit where credit is due. Many of the tourist industry players scrambled to keep people coming and they sharpened their pencils, charmed some of the tour vendors and worked hard to get those numbers.

I read with amazement at some of the comments proliferating on this site and think about why ??

My best guess is that many of you have been in Thailand to long and having passed on many of your bad habits and attitudes to the locals are now reaping what you have sown .

I think its high time many of you returned to your origional countries and stay long enough to get a real good dose of REALITY and see that there is a good reason tourists come to Thailand in large numbers and return regulary .

it is to escape the misery of the places they live . There isnt much to be said about the " Home Country " of expats other than its overpriced , over rated , too much crime , a mountain of misery for the average person and has nothing much left in the way of decency or good living .

Check the Stats and look at the people who have lost their homes , their jobs and everything else they need .

Get over yourselves and stop whining about Thailand or go back to the miserable holes you came from .

Philhal

+1

philhal2 please be nice, you're hurting these eejits' feelings

[idiot farang]

Very accurate comments. The TAT is DEFINITELY cooking it's books. Who are they fooling. Anyone can just look around and see that the tourists are not here. A friend mine is a GM at a 5 star resort here in Samui. He told me he spoke to a Thai gal who books cabaret events for the hotels in Samui. She had 8 bookings for Christmas week. All 8 HAVE CANCELLED! All 8 of the hotels said that their bookings were do far down from normal, they could not afford to do the show! That is normally the busiest week of the year. Who is the TAT fooling? Do we look stupid, or what?

it's pretty well known that Samui had a ton of rain and flooding. seems a lot of negative comments are from Samui- i'm guessing accurate but kind of ignoring that there may be exogenous factors specific to Samui.

such a disparity of comments- from packed to empty. i'm not there yet, but it seems like the hotels i'm looking at are full for some of the days i'm looking at (bkk). kinda wondering what the truth is. as a visitor, i'd prefer less crowded to more for obvious reasons, but i'm guessing it's the later.

i think Thailand has some geographical factors working in its favour. the countries least affected by the global deleveraging are close to Thailand. as an example, Aussie's are comparatively a lot better off than they've ever been with a resource based economy and their lower unemployment and strong currency/equities/housing markets make Thailand more in reach now, not less.

it'll be interesting to see for myself who is right...

[catmac]

Whinge Whinge Whinge. Favourite topic for a few on Thai visa.

Lets look at what Thailand has compared to say UK.

5.2 Billion Barrels of Oil reserves, against 3.2 for UK

Manufacturing: Mercedes engines built here, Nissan built here, Toyota built here, Triumph built here. Big plastics producer, light aircraft produced here.... could go on..... The UK, well they make a good curry.

Tourism: In light of a massive recession that has hit the West 15mil is up there with the best.

Thailand reminds me of Singapore 30 years ago. If Thailand grasp that English as a 2nd language is a plus for Thailand who knows how far this country could go?

Right that's the kiss of death given, time to sell up and move on LOL

Cheers

Dr Plumb

Whinge, or live in cloud-cuckoo land?

Mercedes most certainly do NOT manufacture engines here, or anything else for that matter. They, along with all the other car makers, simply assemble all the imported bits and pieces together here! I doubt if more than 5% of the car is actually manufactured here.

See

http://www.mercedes-benz.co.th/content/thailand/mpc/mpc_thailand_website/enng/home_mpc/passengercars/home/passenger_cars_world/About_the_Company/daimlerchrysler_thailand.html

and read the facts from the horses mouth.

Now Ford, for example, actually manufacture about 50% of their world production of diesel engines at their plant in South Wales (U.K), but never let facts get in the way of your rose-tinted specs.

[dezrat773]

If you believe the government, I have a bridge to sell you that will go from Thailand to Australia! Having just returned from Australia, I can assure you that at least 40% of the passengers went to the transfer desk on their way to Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos. If you look at hotel availailability for the biggest week of the year in Phuket, Pattaya, and Bangkok there are many room available. If this was like past years, there would be no hotels in Phuket available! The prices are cheaper, less attitude, no political turmoile, and great sites in other SE Asian Countries. If you really look at what the governement reported, it stated traffic at the airport, not passengers staying in Thailand. I love Thailand and it's people, but the governement is up to it's same old games.

[simon43]

Well, here is my (ill-informed) take on all this.

It's probably true that tourist numbers have increased, but it's the wrong type of tourist. It's common knowledge that TAT has been targeting Asians to come and visit Thailand, but that does not necessarily lead to increased revenues in the tourism sector. Some Asian nationalities are well-known for haggling a hard bargain, and others, such as Chinese and Korean tourists, purchase fully-inclusive package holidays to Thailand, where even the tour guides are flown in from the home country. So it's hard for local Thai tourist businesses to increase their re venues from these visitor sectors.

Why is my hotel fully booked? Probably because I strive to avoid reliance on local Thai businesses to secure my hotel revenues. I think 98% of my guest bookings are made online by overseas booking agents, because I've learned from bitter experience not to use local Thai inbound operators, (with the exception of Sawadee, who provide an excellent service, and is owned by a French man). I found that local agents often failed to pay for bookings, canceled bookings at the last minute, or tried to obtain contract room-rates which would leave me with little profit. At least with the international booking agents, I know what % commission I need to pay.

Many Thai businesses fail miserably in the IT/online department! They fail to answer emails, their web site is either non-existent or has dead links, or is full of viruses and trojans. I do not have the time nor interest to deal with any company who displays such incompetence.

I've tried to meet the needs of the tourists who visit Phuket. So my hotel web site is available in Chinese, Korean, Russian (and 5 more languages coming online), plus instant online booking and payment via Paypal or Thaiepay. I'm currently installing facilities for Muslim customers (ie which direction is Mecca etc?)

Sometimes I think many Thai tourist businesses are still in the wrong century. Customers want to see the offer, book and pay for it - all online and within a few minutes. These businesses have a lot to learn about being proactive, marketing and customer service.

Simon

[silp1979]

Third visit in 17 mths, 90 days this time. Bangkok super, getss better each time I come - weather great just now, same as Auckland was yesterday.

LOL endless rain in Phuket since a month not really a day of sunshine....

Just come back from Khao Sok Nationalpark, endless rain...

[gemini81]

The Chineese blend in well with Thais......that's why we don't see them so much.

not really, louder and rude. They cant speak Thai or English, so they go on guided tours. They are starting to pack the BTS and MRT more.

[biplanebluey]

They must be including the 4 million that are in transit waiting for flights to other holiday destinations.

The have a very unique way of counting tourists. If a plane flies over Thailand they use those numbers too.

If I was in the UK liveing now and was offered a cheap holiday to get out of the low temps of minus in double figures,I would be on the first available flight----bugger what happened months ago---dougal

[biplanebluey]

Third visit in 17 mths, 90 days this time. Bangkok super, getss better each time I come - weather great just now, same as Auckland was yesterday.

LOL endless rain in Phuket since a month not really a day of sunshine....

Just come back from Khao Sok Nationalpark, endless rain...

I have been here 31/2 yrs--am as happy as larry--but just seeing your reply about Auckland makes me want to go back---just to be there for a short time--see family---I'm from Tauranga.Good luck mate--merry xmas--Dougal

[Deeral]

Seeing tourism from a western perspective is I would suggest totally erroneous.

It looks to me that the main reason for increase in Tourism is that Thailand is successfully targeting new big and less discriminating markets.

The Western tourists see themselves as economically challenged, have concerns about customer service and green issues etcetc. THose from China and Russia and Eastern Europe have no such qualms and have no developed CS concepts in their own countries anyway.

THey are Thailand's dream tourists - bus 'em in, feed 'em and bus 'em out again.

Khawp Khun maak, Khrap

Edited December 20, 2010 by Deeral

[spidermike007]

Close friend of me and wife had a booth at the CM Night Bazaar. She had to shut it down because she was losing money every day she was open. Also know of 2 others there who had to do the same.

Have another friend who is manager of the massage facilities at a 5-Star. She told my wife today that they have almost no customers, and what few tour groups they get in are "Cheepo Charlies" who act like you're trying to rob them if they have to give the massage girl more than 10baht for tip. And some feel like they don't have to tip at all because the price of the massage is included in their tour package. They used to have 8-9 girls working all the time. Now they have 3.

Half of that hotel has been closed down to try and save money, but they are just barely able to pay the electric bill for the half that's open, and some employees haven't been paid in a couple of months.

Yeah, TAT, tell us another joke.

I live here in Chiang Mai in the Night Bazaar area. What you say was true. I couldent believe the number of stalls that were shut down. But now I see more tourists than in the last three years.

The difference being they don't spend like they did before.A friend of mine with a book store told me they are a different type now. A lot less family people and a lot more back packers. Hense the vacancy in the up scale hotels.

I am not sure of the numbers but when you compare them to other years they look hopeful. When they compare the numbers they use the same sources as every other year.

People are being led down the garden path by those who would for one reason or another criticize Thailand every chance they get.

Tourists are down because the world is in or coming out of a depression and people don't have the disposable cash they had five years ago.

Also as much as a lot of people would like to deny it Thailand is doing very good. Hence there money is worth a lot more today than it was five years ago. And yes the red and yellow shirts have hurt the tourist industry.

You obviously have no idea what a depression is. If you think what the world just went through was a depression, just wait until the worldwide unemployment

is closer to 50%! Wait until the dollar collapses, and the DOW is at 2000 again!

[Deeral]

Forget about the West - they are a spent force. The new tourists don't come from US etc. THey DO spend money, but not on the same things - they DO travel around Thailand but not in the same way. THey are just starting as tourists and the PACKAGE is king for them. RTHe Economies of Asia are GROWING and more and more people are able for the first time to have a holiday abroad.

If you look at Thailand's economy from a Western perspective you won't see the whole picture.

If the US economy collapsed? - Well it won't but it is no longer important - the future will lie in the new internal markets in China and India - markets that the west repeatedly ignores - including almost every post on this thread.

[RedNIvar]

I honestly believe that about 1 to 2 million of these so called tourist are repeat fliers (coming in/out of Thailand on business, visa runs, etc).Our company has a site both in Malaysia and Thailand, and at any one time we have about 20 to 30 Malaysians here that do not stay the weekend and keep flying in and out of Bangkok. There are many other companies that are doing the same.

Given these type of "tourist" fly in and out of Bangkok on average of 4 times a year, up to 8 million of the 15.8million tourist are not really tourist but more of business travelers. Yes their companies spend money of hotels and their per diem, but they do do not spend all that much money shopping or visiting the "touristy" sites. Money is spent however on booze and drive shaft service.

What would be an interesting statistic is the number of first time visitors to Thailand year on year? A large number of visitors in my opinion have been to Thailand before and love certain aspects of the country (people or otherwise), and keep coming back. This would probably be everyone on TV, myself included.

[Deeral]

Malaysia is the biggest single National group of tourists.But remember based on flight disembarkation cards - the "purpose of visit should be "tourist"

I believe you'll find UK is the only western country to figure in the top 5 tourist visitors

Edited December 20, 2010 by Deeral

[sydneyjed]

I was at a company xmas dinner on friday night and the Vietnamese boss complained that he is having trouble with companies in China not being able to meet deadlines anymore..because there is a shortage of workers in many of the factories there !He also said wages in China had almost trebled in the last 18 months,as Chinese people become more affluent..In 10/15 years he said China won't have to worry about countries such as U.S.anymore...as they will be the richest country by then !!

Edited December 20, 2010 by sydneyjed

[Petbon]

Third visit in 17 mths, 90 days this time. Bangkok super, getss better each time I come - weather great just now, same as Auckland was yesterday.

LOL endless rain in Phuket since a month not really a day of sunshine....

Just come back from Khao Sok Nationalpark, endless rain...

I have been here 31/2 yrs--am as happy as larry--but just seeing your reply about Auckland makes me want to go back---just to be there for a short time--see family---I'm from Tauranga.Good luck mate--merry xmas--Dougal

Have a happy time at Christmas and a fantastic 2011 Dougal. Hope you make it back to beautiful Tauranga sometime soon....NZ has so many great spots. Aucklanders can be JAFA's LOL...people in smaller towns/cities are less likely to be as arrogant and pretentious.

[Petbon]

Third visit in 17 mths, 90 days this time. Bangkok super, getss better each time I come - weather great just now, same as Auckland was yesterday.

Come on. You come from a beautiful place like New Zealand and call Bangkok super? Maybe check out some of the really beautiful places in Thailand!

Auckland city centre is polluted and somewhat dead these days....with much aggression/anger displayed by those living in apartments paid for by the welfare department/taxpayer. I've lived with international tourists for 10 mths and 75% of them can't wait to get out of Auckland because they feel it's limited as a city, with little of interest...but they DO love the beauty of other parts. I'm asked to give money 2-3x a week and then get sworn at when I say no...last mth someone asked me whether they could have some of my food in a cafe. When I said that it was a treat for me so no as he got plenty of welfare benefits, that well-dressed bloke said he was saving that for his holiday!! I dont see that kind of dependency, laziness and anger in Bangkok, so it is super as I walk around without being bothered.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

Thailand reminds me of Singapore 30 years ago.

<snip>

In 30 years time it'll be 60 years behind.

[moe666]

Because most of us are European, North Americans, Aussie, or New Zealand we tend to think in those terms. At present in Mae Hong Son and it is dead here. The waiter at the crossroads bar is singing the blues, no farangs or Thais except a few locals. There are some Muslims from down south but they donot come to the bar.

two weeks ago the guest house where I am staying was full up except for a bungalows most of the rooms taken by Thais on tour in those vans. This week no problem getting a room.

[hanssna]

not seeing many of them around our shop therse days ( in the rain )

[DrPlumb]

I am willing to concede on the figures for oil, i saw the Benz engines in Thailand on the internet somewhere.....

What I was getting at is, in my view, Thailand has got many, many qualities and has got huge potential to kick on. Thailand is not all about Western Expats and holidays.

I wish Thailand all the best for future and hope that any wealth created trickles down to all.

Whinge Whinge Whinge. Favourite topic for a few on Thai visa.

Lets look at what Thailand has compared to say UK.

5.2 Billion Barrels of Oil reserves, against 3.2 for UK

Manufacturing: Mercedes engines built here, Nissan built here, Toyota built here, Triumph built here. Big plastics producer, light aircraft produced here.... could go on..... The UK, well they make a good curry.

Tourism: In light of a massive recession that has hit the West 15mil is up there with the best.

Thailand reminds me of Singapore 30 years ago. If Thailand grasp that English as a 2nd language is a plus for Thailand who knows how far this country could go?

Right that's the kiss of death given, time to sell up and move on LOL

Cheers

Dr Plumb

Doc, I think someone slipped a digit on your statement regarding Thailand's oil reserves. It appears they have about 583 million not 5.2 billion barrels based on information at

http://www.nationmas...y-oil-reserves.

Your other information is interesting as I had heard of Ford, Nissan, Toyota, and chemicals production in Thailand, but was not aware of the Mercedes and light aircraft production. Go Thailand!

[tmd5855]

Pom song satang?

I work 4 weeks on/off ofshore so in and out of the airport (Swampy) regulary. During my 4wks off I go back to the UK for 6 nights.

So think I can comment on visitors coming through immigration.

They are down, year on year for the same period.

You only need to look at the aircraft stands, 33-40% occupancy and how many are transit.

One of my flights 'in' is from Hong Kong, continues to London. Other flight 'in' continues to Seoul?

Save up my fastrack passes now since you can get through immigration in 15 minutes tops.

No gangs of guys from UK, Europe ...Scandanavia??

Year on year house rents asked for have risen but my offers (They get taken) get lower per se?

4 years ago I would of been paying 45,000bt a month for my villa. Have just renewed the lease for another year, they agreed 24,000 per month straight away.

There is not so much money going around, not so many westerners?

The eyes do not lie. ............ I think

Edited December 29, 2010 by tmd5855

[Deeral]

Pom song satang?

I work 4 weeks on/off ofshore so in and out of the airport (Swampy) regulary. During my 4wks off I go back to the UK for 6 nights.

So think I can comment on visitors coming through immigration.

They are down, year on year for the same period.

You only need to look at the aircraft stands, 33-40% occupancy and how many are transit.

One of my flights 'in' is from Hong Kong, continues to London. Other flight 'in' continues to Seoul?

Save up my fastrack passes now since you can get through immigration in 15 minutes tops.

No gangs of guys from UK, Europe ...Scandanavia??

Year on year house rents asked for have risen but my offers (They get taken) get lower per se?

4 years ago I would of been paying 45,000bt a month for my villa. Have just renewed the lease for another year, they agreed 24,000 per month straight away.

There is not so much money going around, not so many westerners?

The eyes do not lie. ............ I think

Here we have a perfect example of perception versus FACT - tourism is UP - 15 millionIf you look at the crowds in the right places you'll see them - the problem is they are not "westerners" - they are Asians and Eastern Europeans - they come in in charter flights - not even Suvarnabhumi and they are bussed to different places - so you won't see them.

If you spend some time in Pattaya though r Jomtien you'll see the shopping centres - of which there are several NEW ones over the past few years are doing fine, the spas and massage shops are full - it's just the seedy side where the fat farangs hang out in dingy, dirty bars ain't doing so well - and it won't pick up for a few years if it does at all.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

it's just the seedy side where the fat farangs hang out in dingy, dirty bars ain't doing so well - and it won't pick up for a few years if it does at all.

I defer to your superior knowledge of these areas.

[bangon04]

Seeing tourism from a western perspective is I would suggest totally erroneous.

It looks to me that the main reason for increase in Tourism is that Thailand is successfully targeting new big and less discriminating markets.

The Western tourists see themselves as economically challenged, have concerns about customer service and green issues etcetc. THose from China and Russia and Eastern Europe have no such qualms and have no developed CS concepts in their own countries anyway.

THey are Thailand's dream tourists - bus 'em in, feed 'em and bus 'em out again.

Khawp Khun maak, Khrap

Exactly right. And Thailand is developing its product. Where there were lots of places catering for overpaying Japanese tourists, there are now more places catering for Chinese and Koreans.

Where there were places catering specially for German tastes (shudder) there are now entrepreneurs who want to give Russians what they want.