More Thai Consumers Opt For Debit Cards

[JimGant]

Finally, here's a Dec 2010 article listing the 10 Best Cash Back cards (in this article's opinion)

Thanx for that, Pib. I knew Capital One 'ate' the foreign transaction fee, but didn't realize they had a 1% cash back (or more, if for groceries -- wonder if Rimping resonates in their data base.....).

Getting at least the TT rate -- plus another 1% -- works for me. Guess I better get off my butt. Anyone have experience with Capital One, from the expat position?

[Pib]

Pib, I divide U.S. credit cards into two groups:

1. those that I'll use in the U.S. predominantly, which of course have no foreign currency fee for domestic transactions and instead have generous rewards provisions of various types that fit my lifestyle needs.

2. those I use outside the U.S. and in Thailand because they carry no foreign currency fee. These typically have little or no rewards provisions. But they make up for that by charging no foreign currency fee and giving me credit card access here in Thailand that has all the benefits of credit card use and U.S. legal/consumer protections without the fee and consumer protection negatives associated with cards issued by Thai banks.

That's definitely a good method to operate under. With all the devil-in-the-details and their associated fees that come with credit cards now days a person really needs to do his/her research as to what card(s) will best fit their lifestyle and living location on planet Earth.

As FYI, today I called and applied for a Capital One No Hassle Cash Rewards Mastercard Credit Card which has no annual fee, "no foreign transaction fee" (one of the small percentage of cards that still offer no foreign transaction fee), 2% back on groceries/gas & 1% cash back on everything else (no additional devil-in-the-cash-back-details that I found in their online disclosure and from talking to their representative). I called and applied since I couldn't apply online due to their online application system only accepting addresses "within one of the 50 States & D.C." So, since I had an APO address and a standard Thailand address the online system wouldn't work for me....but when applying by phone they can accept APO addresses since it is an official US Postal System addresses. You need to be ready with info on your income, savings, etc., when making the call; the best thing to do is to look at the online application to see what they are going to ask and have that info ready.

Anyway, approved for the card during the call which included the running of a credit score/report....card in the mail. With the no foreign transaction fee and assuming I get the Mastercard/Visa exchange rate for transactions/buys, which is equal to or better than the Thai bank TT rate, I will get the same benefits as if I was still living in the States...and some of these benefits include credit card protection under US laws versus the much less consumer-oriented credit/debit card laws in Thailand. Oh yea, I'll also get cash back at the 1 or 2% rate depending on what I buy, but never lower than 1%...hopefully I'll get 2% for a lot of Lotus/Makro grocery type buys...of course this depends on the type of purchase coding sent during the tranaction...I won't be surprised if the Thai purchase coding does not match the US purchase coding...but as mentioned, I'll get 1% cash back worst case. I know I'm preaching to the choir based on all the good credit card info you provided in your other posts....thanks for all the good research/info.

If anyone decides to apply please note there are two versions of the Capital One No Hassle Cash Rewards credit card. The card that comes with no annual fee and a slightly lower interest rate requires a credit score/report with an excellent rating; if your credit score/report comes back as Average then you can get the No Hassle Cash Rewards card that comes with a $39 annual fee and slightly higher interest rate but it still comes with the no foreign transaction fee and 2 or 1% cash back. More info available here on the various Capital One credit cards: http://www.capitalon...1_02_T_CCBRWALL

[jfchandler]

Jim, there are lots of mixed opinions about Capital One...mainly focusing on their sometime erratic customer service.

From personal experience, working from a U.S. address, I've had a lot of interaction with them and don't find them any worse than any other big bank/credit card operation.

From an expat perspective, their online banking setup and capabilities are good, comprehensive and easy to use. You can combine access to your Cap One credit cards, bank accounts and CDs all in the same access. They allow you to receive pretty immediate email alerts anytime a transaction matching your limits hits your card.

With their credit cards, they do occasionally seem to freeze/reject individual foreign transactions... because their fraud detection system flags them as occurring outside the U.S. And their credit card holders will sometimes get calls from their fraud department after a transaction has processed wanting to doublecheck its validity. The occasional freezes (purchase denied) can be remedied by a call to customer service, and having them place a note in your account record indicating you're going to be traveling or working outside the U.S. for some period of time. But that can cause an occasional inconvenience.

As far as I'm aware, Cap One has the pretty unique aspect that all of their credit cards, and they offer many varieties, carry no foreign currency transaction fee. And their exchange rates in actual transactions bear out that reality. However, depending on the type of card, their credit card interest rates can vary greatly, as do their rewards provisions card by card, and some of their premium rewards cards even have an annual fee. It's up to the applicant to wade thru all the configurations of their cards to find the best fit for their needs.

They also offer a Money Market account that, while not paying much interest, does come with a straight ATM card (not VISA or MC logo) that can be used in Thailand ATMs with no foreign currency fee assessed by Cap One, the same as their credit cards.

In one of the banking blogs I read, I also noticed today that Cap One currently is offering some of the best longer term CD rates in the nation, about 3% for a 7 year CD, which while not much, is unfortunately better than most other banks are paying.

[jfchandler]

Pib, please do advise, once you get set up, on whether Cap One's system ends up recognizing your local grocery purchases here as "GROCERY" purchases under their rewards/cash back system...

My experience with them relates to travel rewards, where there was no issue about what kind of purchases were being made. It was simply a percentage calculation of all card use, no matter where or what kind, applied toward their travel rewards setup.

Their travel rewards setup, IMHO, is a bit on the balky side. The points conversion process is a bit complicated, and you can't just spend their travel rewards points as cash, but instead, qualify for them to pay for certain levels of airfare based on your points accumulation...which mostly is oriented to domestic air travel... because qualifying for credits for costly transpacific air travel would require a ton of points under their system.

[Pib]

Pib, please do advise, once you get set up, on whether Cap One's system ends up recognizing your local grocery purchases here as "GROCERY" purchases under their rewards/cash back system...

My experience with them relates to travel rewards, where there was no issue about what kind of purchases were being made. It was simply a percentage calculation of all card use, no matter where or what kind, applied toward their travel rewards setup.

Their travel rewards setup, IMHO, is a bit on the balky side. The points conversion process is a bit complicated, and you can't just spend their travel rewards points as cash, but instead, qualify for them to pay for certain levels of airfare based on your points accumulation...which mostly is oriented to domestic air travel... because qualifying for credits for costly transpacific air travel would require a ton of points under their system.

Will do. I've never had or applied for a card that provides travel rewards even through I traveled a LOT on business before I retired....it seems a person would need to fly around the world a couple of times within a limited time on certain airlines/fares to every take real advantage of the rewards. Give me "cash" back rewards when it comes to a credit card; but I realize in another person's situation a different type of reward card can be advantageous...different strokes for different folks. Cheers.

[jfchandler]

Mai Chai, well, of course VISA USA markets their $0 fraud liability policy...

But it's not just marketing, since U.S. federal law backs up that policy and requires that, no matter what policy an individual card network or issuing bank may have, that a U.S. credit card holder cannot be held liable for any more than $50 of fraudulent card activity on a lost/stolen card, and $0 liability if the card number is somehow stolen (such as skimmed), but not the card itself.

There are similar federal law provisions for U.S. bank issued debit cards, though the debit card legal requirements place greater emphasis on reporting the loss of a card within 48 hours of the cardholder discovering the loss (not when the loss actually occurred)...or greater liability for the cardholder if they fail to report until later.

The Federal Trade Commission has a very good summary of the legal protections for U.S. credit and debit card holders that is located here.

It bears noting and repeating, however, that both the VISA $0 fraud liability and the accompanying federal law provisions ONLY apply to cards issued by U.S. banks and other institutions, regardless of where the cards may be used.

Neither the U.S. federal law protections nor the VISA fraud policy apply to Thai bank issued credit and debit cards, regardless of where those cards may be used. Thus, if someone is holding a Thai bank issued card, they're pretty much at the mercy of the Thai banking system...

The details of the U.S. VISA $0 fraud liability policy are here. The VISA info states in part:

If your account is compromised, Visa is committed to setting things right without further aggravation or inconvenience to you. Visa’s cardholder protection policy requires all financial institutions issuing Visa products to extend provisional credit for losses from unauthorized card use within 5 business days of notification of the loss.Covers U.S.-issued cards only.

This is just marketing from Visa. They want more people to use Visa services so they create this news.

[JimGant]

JFC, appreciate the info.

You're on top of the best plastic to use in Thailand. Is the Cap One credit card the best deal I can get, assuming I qualify for the no annual fee, top of the line card (interest rates aren't applicable since I pay off in full monthly)? How about their ATM card -- absolutely no fees in addition to no foreign transaction fee?

Thanx.

[jfchandler]

Jim...as I suspect you already know...

From a Thailand expat perspective, the Schwab 2% VISA credit card probably WAS the best deal to be had...including no foreign currency fee. But its future is unclear for existing account holders, now that BofA (FIA Card Services) has taken over the card from Schwab. And there are no new applications available for that card.

After that, I'd say some variety of the Capital One cards are a very good expat choice. I have one caveat, and that is I have no experience in dealing with them or applying from outside the U.S. But as a U.S. resident account holder, their company-wide no foreign currency fee policy on their credit cards is the real deal. And as I mentioned previously, their online account management features are quite good.

There are other credit cards that have better rewards provisions. But for someone living outside of the U.S. and wanting to use the credit card outside the U.S., having a no foreign currency fee card is pretty key. And while other major U.S. banks have cards with attractive rewards provisions, they also tend to have foreign currency fees of 3%, which would more than offset any rewards gains.

The straight ATM card with Capital one is part of their Rewards Money Market account. Apply and open online. No monthly fees or minimum balance, and no foreign currency fee on ATM withdrawals (though it doesn't reimburse Thai banks' 150 baht ATM fees). As I mentioned above, their ATM card is NOT a VISA or MC logo card... just straight ATM. But it is a PLUS logo card, meaning it can be used in the Thai bank ATMs and most ATMs around the world.

Withdrawal Limits Withdrawals by online transfer and check are limited to a combined six per calendar month. ATM withdrawals are limited to $500 per day.

Customer eligibility Accounts are available to U.S. citizens and permanent residents of the 50 United States and the District of Columbia. We require a permanent, physical U.S. address to open and maintain the account.

ATM withdrawal charges These terms apply to accounts which offer an ATM card.

(i) United States. We will not charge you any fees for ATM withdrawals or balance inquiries; but fees may be charged by the owner of the ATM and at certain ATMs owned and operated by Capital One, N.A., located in gaming establishments and other non-branch locations,.

(ii) International transactions/Outside the United States. We will not charge you any fees for ATM withdrawals or balance inquiries; but fees may be charged by the owner of the ATM.

Cap One's account disclosures document for the MMA is located here....

JFC, appreciate the info.

You're on top of the best plastic to use in Thailand. Is the Cap One credit card the best deal I can get, assuming I qualify for the no annual fee, top of the line card (interest rates aren't applicable since I pay off in full monthly)? How about their ATM card -- absolutely no fees in addition to no foreign transaction fee?

Thanx.

[JimGant]

JFC, If I remember correctly, you have a USA2ME mailbox address. Since Cap One requires a US address (or APO), in your experience would your USA2ME address work with Cap One (or any plastic)? Or, if no experience using a faux address for plastic, what's your best guess?

Somehow I have a feeling these bogus addresses can be identified as such, and might be rejected. But, that's just a guess.....

[Pib]

Pib, please do advise, once you get set up, on whether Cap One's system ends up recognizing your local grocery purchases here as "GROCERY" purchases under their rewards/cash back system...

My experience with them relates to travel rewards, where there was no issue about what kind of purchases were being made. It was simply a percentage calculation of all card use, no matter where or what kind, applied toward their travel rewards setup.

Their travel rewards setup, IMHO, is a bit on the balky side. The points conversion process is a bit complicated, and you can't just spend their travel rewards points as cash, but instead, qualify for them to pay for certain levels of airfare based on your points accumulation...which mostly is oriented to domestic air travel... because qualifying for credits for costly transpacific air travel would require a ton of points under their system.

Will do. I've never had or applied for a card that provides travel rewards even through I traveled a LOT on business before I retired....it seems a person would need to fly around the world a couple of times within a limited time on certain airlines/fares to every take real advantage of the rewards. Give me "cash" back rewards when it comes to a credit card; but I realize in another person's situation a different type of reward card can be advantageous...different strokes for different folks. Cheers.

Got the Capital One Cash Rewards (Mastercard) credit card in the mail today (an APO address)...activated it...asked for a supplemental card for the wife. Took 3 weeks from phone application to card in-hand. Since I did a major grocery run this morning to Makro (who only take the Makro credit card or cash) and don't need any groceries immediately, I'll probably give the new card a try this weekend at Lotus, Carrefour, and/or Big C to see if the cash back credit reflects as a 1% or 2% cash back on the Capital One account. But since it's primarily up the the retailers/stores themselves to properly identify their type of store in the credit card payment system and since Lotus, Carrefour, and Big C are really a retail store that sells most everything versus just groceries I'm expecting to get the 1% cash back. But we will see.