New Tourist Visa Without Leaving Thailand

[Elefteros]

is it not against immigration rules, if i mail my passport to embassy in my country and get new tourist visa without leaving Thailand and then do border run to activate new visa?

[jombom]

Not a good idea.

If I read this correctly, you are proposing to mail your passport to a Thai Embassy in your country.

And you expect them to send it to Thailand ----------- ??????????????????

Sounds like a ''devious and cunning'' plan.

[saintofsilence]

No chance what about your entry and exit stamps ?

[lopburi3]

Yes it is against immigration rules. Such a visa should not be issued but if it were immigration would not honor it.

[Lite Beer]

As said,illegal.

[thailife69]

Genius, life altering idea.

Life, starlet gazing produces endless original life altering ideas. NOT.

I must confess I thought my starlet gazing idea was the most original to date. Getting 10 visas each time I went to the Embassy.

I also came up with the idea of doing away with visas all together! Imagine how simple life in Thailand would be for us ex-pats.

And then last night while starlet gazing, I landed on the idea of one country one world.

The best advice I can offer, is after starlet dreaming, take a few deep breaths and stay away from Blog sites or better still switch off your computer.

Now I have had my fun at your expense, the answer to your question is YES.

Edited December 28, 2010 by thailife69

[wolf5370]

Yes, I was told all this when I renewed my non-im by post. It would not be accepted etc. Well, the immigration guy looked at the two back to back visas (one of several in the passport), stamped my out one the old one as that was the one I wrote on my departure card and stamped me back in an hour later on the new one (as per arrivals card). No problems - the Visa was real and as I had paid, I had a right to use it - the rest is semantics really. Not saying there will not be any problems (lets face it they could also ask you to show 20k in your wallet, a return tisket somewhere - or just refuse you outright because their wife has PMS), but I got a bit worried by some of the comments here when I casually mentioned it in one post reply and it all came to naught - the officer looked at them both and then did the logical thing.

BTW does Visa "law" say that the pasport must be presented at a consulate or Embassy outside of the kingdom, or does it say the passports owner must be outside of the kingdom - I mean the Thai rules, not the English translation.

//Edit: Added the below ??

Lop: "Yes it is against immigration rules. Such a visa should not be issued but if it were immigration would not honor it. " - Why should it not be issued? If the consulate allows application by post, and you send it through someone at home (perhaps your registered address at home if you kept it - perhaps your kids live there or your parents and you are still registered there - like I am), then what difference does the consulate see than if I sent one from that address because I live there? Other than the entry stamps being out of synch for the initial out trip, what is the problem for immigration? Why would they have a problem with a paid for stamped visa that had been stamped by a legally authorised consulate?

Edited December 28, 2010 by wolf5370

[Elefteros]

thanx wolf5370

yes my consulate allows application by post, yes i can send my passport to one of my family or directly to my consulate - and yes some of my family can collect passport or consulate can mail it - they do it nicely inside the country....

Dear thalife69 - im happy that 7 in the morning you have such inspiration and mood to write such high class literary opus -

BUT i was asking - is there a part in immigration law that says that i must leave the country to get new visa?

Edited December 28, 2010 by Elefteros

[Elefteros]

Yes it is against immigration rules. Such a visa should not be issued but if it were immigration would not honor it.

how can immigration know which way was visa issued by consulate? if i just leave country and get old visa stamped and then enter again and present new valid visa?

[lopburi3]

If the passport shows you in Thailand you are obviously not in there area of service even if your family may be so located and no visa should be entered. If it is and immigration officer sees that you were in Thailand at time of entry it should be be accepted for entry and immigration has clearly stated this a number of times. You receive an entry and exit stamp for Thailand so it is easy to see in most passports.

[wolf5370]

Sorry Lop, still have problems here - what is "area of service"? Is it the nearest consulate to your home domicile? Or is it the consulate/Embassy that is in the country that your are in? Because if the former, then people in the USA that approach consulates in other states as they are known to be easier for getting the visa they want, all have illegal visas too - if the latter than consulates such as Hull that take postal applications form all of the EU, regardless of country, are also issueing illegal visas.

[Elefteros]

people who have 2 different nationality passports can exit with second passport and get visa in first....

lets try from other side - is there a part in the immigration law that clearly says that i need to receive exit stamp to obtain new visa?

[wolf5370]

Elefteros, I don't want to lead you into taking any risks here - immigration here is always a slipper eel and what's in the book may or may not be what they use to make any decisions - laws here are contradictary and confused or far too vague and immigration (police/lawyers/judges) can often make of them what they want at any given time. Like you I am interested in the 'real' legal point of this (as I did it and did get away with it - with immigration officers knowledge as I watched him check both visas to ensure decide apon which one to apply and that my immigration landing cards were correct), however, you may not want to rely on that helping you if the officer you get is somewhat less forthcoming.

Another question is, perhaps, what would be the likely outcome. They cancel the Visa and you have to enter on a 30/14 day fly/walk in - then go to Laos (etc) and get another. One would think overstay is a much more serious issue and look at the blase way that is dealt with - kerching!! - "please come agan!" - that just saving on an airfare home and back (its not like you are defrauding them of money) it all sillines anyway; really you should be able to get another in country for a payment (they can still decide then if you are using tourist visa as a way to seek immigration - and thus (in their eyes) employment and refuse it - something they have no control over if you went to Hull etc)

[lopburi3]

We have not been talking about two passports or dual nationality. The question was about a passport showing you in Thailand being sent to another country to obtain a Thai visa while you are still in Thailand. And this would not result in a valid visa and if seen as such it will not be accepted for entry. It would also put the person without access to a valid passport in potential trouble if required to show a passport he no longer had possession of. That is the reason those that are required to travel and obtain visas for such reasons can obtain more than one.

[Crossy]

There is at least one report on Thaivisa of a poster obtaining a visa from overseas by post whilst he was still in Thailand.

The visa was spotted by the immigration official on the exit desk and cancelled as being obtained illegally.

Since tourist visas are easily obtained in nearby countries why take the risk?

[Elefteros]

if it is so - it may means it illegal - but regulated by what kind of law?

[wolfgangbkk]

This topic seems to be going way too long,

let me just make it clear, first of all, it is illegal to send passport outside Thailand while you are inside the kingdom.

Secondly, your visa application won't be accepted in any consulate if there is no exit stamp found on your passport.

It is an old strategy that now immigration and the consulates abroad has come to know about it and the consulates will check your passport for entry/exit stamps.

I know few people whose visa applications were declined and sent passport back to their friends or relatives.

Hope this answer your question.

[TerryLH]

"let me just make it clear, first of all, it is illegal to send passport outside Thailand while you are inside the kingdom."

As written, this isn't clear, because it's not true.

[Maestro]

...is there a part in immigration law that says that i must leave the country to get new visa?

No. Read an English translation of Thailand's Immigration Act here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/post-a84562-Immigration-Act-EN.pdf.html

Do you know what a visa is? It is a permit to travel to Thailand. Therefore, if you are already in Thailand you do not need such permit. Makes sense, doesn't it, even without a law to spell it out for you?

[Maestro]

"let me just make it clear, first of all, it is illegal to send passport outside Thailand while you are inside the kingdom."

As written, this isn't clear, because it's not true.

The Immigration Act does not use the exact same words as the text you have quoted. This is what it says:

Section 81 : Any alien who stay in the Kingdom without permission or with

permission expired or revoked shall be punished with imprisonment not exceeding

two years or a fine not exceeding 20,000 Baht or both.

Without your passport in your possession you have no means of proving that you are not illegally in Thailand. (They would have to catch you first, of course, before they could mete out the punishment prescribed by law)

[Elefteros]

...is there a part in immigration law that says that i must leave the country to get new visa?

No. Read an English translation of Thailand's Immigration Act here: http://www.thaivisa....Act-EN.pdf.html

Do you know what a visa is? It is a permit to travel to Thailand. Therefore, if you are already in Thailand you do not need such permit. Makes sense, doesn't it, even without a law to spell it out for you?

no, no sense for me - if i am in thailand and have visa, then i plan to travel lets says to philippines and after come back to thailand - it means i will need visa, if it is okay for my consulate to receive papers via mail and send them back, so on the logical side it is normal for me to send documents for another visa:)

the only question was if it is legal by the law...i see no one knows....

then next question will be if it is legal for consulate to give me visa with another one not stamped out?

[Kwasaki]

I don't see where this is going, it sounds like a deception or mis-information, if it were possible to do, it must be over-sight from other quarters.

My passport experience was to renew my passport before it ran out, because you need to keep at least 3 months in hand on a passport, so I was told by Tak immigration and it was possible to add up to 11 months valuation to you new passport from the old.

When applying to the Hong Kong UK embassy I was told to keep hold of my old passport and only send a copy until my new one arrived then I could transfer the original visa and my last entry into Thailand when I renewed my 1 year extension to stay.

You are required to kept your passport with you while you are not in your country of residents, it is also a requirement to carry a copy of your passport with you while you are in Thailand.

Edited December 28, 2010 by Kwasaki

[lopburi3]

Actually no visa is ever transferred into a new passport. Only immigration items such as permission to stay or extension of stay type stamps can be transferred - you keep your old passport to use a visa in it. The entry stamp is then made in your new passport.

The ID rule in Thailand AFAIK is photo ID. Passport needs to be available but does not need to be carried (but you should be prepared to be held until retrieved). I have never seen anyone say there is a 'requirement' to carry a copy of passport; although it is a good idea to do so.

[Maestro]

...then next question will be if it is legal for consulate to give me visa with another one not stamped out?

As far as I know there is no Thai law or ministerial regulation with a clause on this subject. Instructions and guidelines given by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs to the consulates are not published. We can only attempt to guess what these instructions and guidelines might be on the basis of what we see happening.

[Maestro]

There is at least one report on Thaivisa of a poster obtaining a visa from overseas by post whilst he was still in Thailand.

The visa was spotted by the immigration official on the exit desk and cancelled as being obtained illegally...

I remember that post clearly but cannot find it now. The immigration officer at the border entry point -- I believe it was Aranyaprathet -- refused to honour the visa, pointing out to the traveller that the visa was obtained whilst he was in Thailand, and gave a visa-exempt entry stamp with permission to stay for 30 days. What can we glean from this?

1. The Thai consulate that issued the visa did not check for the Thai exit stamp or if it did, it chose to issue the visa regardless.
   
2. The Thai immigration officer compared the visa's date of issue with the last arrival and departure stamp and noticed that the visa was issued on a date when the passport holder was in Thailand.

[Elefteros]

ok - lets make it more complicate and take a look from other side:) (just in theory) - i have double entry visa, i leave thailand for first time, receive one more visa come back to thailand, activate my second entry, leave again and activate new visa...nothing wrong?

[Crossy]

You are not permitted to have more than one active visa, the consulate should cancel your existing visa when the insert the new one.

[Lite Beer]

.nothing wrong?

Yes.

When you apply for a new Visa your previous one will be cancelled.

[Maestro]

My suggestion to Elefteros: forget the theory. Just do it, then come back to this topic and tell us how it went.

[RabC]

OK from experience; I called the Thai consulate in Thailand regarding a new non-o visa. The lady at the consulate saw I was calling from Thailand (+66) and told me I could not apply for a new visa whilst I was in Thailand. I was only asking questions about my application for when I returned to the UK and she said that was fine, but she stressed Hull would not issue a visa if their was no exit stamp from Thailand.