Decent Amulet Shop/Supplier In Chiang Mai

[mamborobert]

I hesitate even as I type these words.....but does anyone know a reputable (or the location of a reputable) amulet dealer/shop.

Preferably some place with a wide price range (and ideally legitimately priced) and selection.

I do not want to buy online or through the many amulet magazines that inhabit 7/11's

Never had much time for these myself but would like to purchase one or more for an elderley Thai gentlemen who greatly treasures these amulets and has been a great help to my wife in her shop over the last several months, seeking no gain and always remained available.

Not looking for an dissertations on amulets just some directions as I am sure that he is not expecting anything and would welcome the gift whatever (given that I will stick to the non spirit baby related amulets and the like).

thanks in anticiaption folks.....

[elektrified]

I don't know where to go in Chiang Mai but we purchased some as investments from a very reputable amulet dealer over the Internet. I think he was located in Hat Yai. That was about 3 years ago now and they are already selling on the Internet for about 3 times what we paid for them.

Beware there are a lot of fakes on the market.

[CheGuava]

Thippanet Market has many small shops. But pretty cheap / low end. They do however work like a charm, so why pay more for the same effect.

Edited December 28, 2010 by CheGuava

[isanbirder]

Try to find one which commemorates a particular monk and / or is sold at one temple only. In other words, try for something unusual, not something expensive (for the latter, you'll be taken for a ride). After giving you this excellent advice, I have no idea how you start.

[whimsy]

There is a small amulet shop in the car park of the 12 Huawy Kaew building behind the MK restaurant. That is the building on the opposite side of the road from KSK mall.

No idea how reputable they are but it looks legit.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

fyi: in Thai culture, the word "buy" (kai) is never used in regard to any Buddha Image (Phra Buddha Roob) or Holy Monk Amulet; the word "sell" (sur) is also never used.

The polite term used, for both buy/sell, is "chao" (meaning: rent). And, this is associated with the special sacred significance of these Images in Buddhism.

However, in my experience (over many years), interestingly, there is no special usage for asking the cost: saying: "tao rai ?" is perfectly fine.

The popular Thai belief that certain amulets made or blessed by particularly holy or ascetic Monks have a special "spiritual energy" (phra lang), which might protect you from car crashes, bring you success in business, etc., we find totally inconsistent with the revival and reform of Theravdan root Buddhism as attempted by Buddhadhasa Bhikku, and others. It is a phenonmenon exactly parallel, ioho, to the sale and cult of relics of Saints in Medieval European Catholicism which was one factor leading to those theses of Martin Luther being nailed to the church door, and starting a revolution.

Those of you who wish to consult with someone who has several years experience of studying the evolution of Buddhist iconography in S.E. Asia, in the context of history, archaeology, the dynamics of geo-political aspects of the possession of the great palladial Buddhas (like Phra Morakot, Phra Singh, etc.), and the nature of fraud and fakery in this "arena," particularly in Thaiand, Laos, Burma, Camboda, are welcome to PM us. However, we are not "dealers," and we are not after any form of compensation for rendering advice. And we will never serve as an intermediary in any negotiation with a Thai dealer in these sacred artifacts, nor render an opinion as to possible fakery (that's called "survival," folks).

We once were very serious collectors, but that "chapter," a fascinating one in our "book of life," that brought us into contact with many interesting Thai people, is ... over. Our best images were "rented" to serious local collectors to pay for our cancer treatment, and supported us for two years. Now, it is "immaterial" to us whether we see a magnificent Buddha image in a museum, or in our home.

fyi: any Farang dealing in any form of sacred image on the internet is vulnerable to prosecution: it is on the "forbidden" list of occupations for Farangs.

Perhaps five or six years ago, we used to go look on eBay at Thai, Laos, Cambodian, etc., Buddhas being listed: 99% of them were either mis-described, obvious frauds, or junk.

Because of the widespread fakery, Thai Buddhas in the higher levels of the international art world have a very sullied reputation. Maybe three years ago a Thai woman came to the Arts of Asia show (the real hi-so show) in San Francisco that costs about US 10k $ for a dealer's booth. The "vetting comittee of experts rejected more than fifty out of the sixty pieces she brought with her, and they were not allowed to be displayed. Two years, or so, ago, an American bought a group of what he thought were valuable Shan Buddhas in Singapore: on return to America he had a museum curator appraise them: all fake. He actually went back to Singapore, filed suit, flew in the museum curator, and got his money back plus damages.

So it goes.

The Buddha Images that really speak to us these days ... are the eyes of children.

best, ~o:37;

Edited December 28, 2010 by orang37

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I love me some amulet in the morning with a little spring onion and shrimp. Mmm.

This guy who makes them comes to mind... Might be a good resource to visit and begin the process of understanding this market.

CM amulet craftsman

[realthaideal]

Thanks for the good thoughts and information, Khun Orang's meat package. I myself do enjoy the outside-of-strict-Theravada beliefs/ enjoyment of charms and amulets etc. I chalk it up to the blending of cultures of the locals over many generations, and of course animist traditions/superstitions that die hard. I will note that I bought myself a special amulet to protect me on the motosai, and not one accident on it for 7 years - knock on wood (sound of knuckles on skull). I bought it at the Thippanet Market, in the rundown old dtallat off Thippanet Rd, just past (west of) Thannon Wuwa Lai.

And an fyi to the OP, I have had the pleasure of perusing an amulet market with K. Orang a couple years ago, and thoroughly enjoyed his tales and vast knowledge/ scholarship of all myriad subjects related to amulet markets in Thailand.

[Ta22]

look at it this way Thai amulet is like Baseball Card on a Express Train .

But it new an d it Cheap . once is out of the season , be ready to pay collector price .

there is no Say Stable price . it all depend on how rare is it and which temple of cos .

my suggestion is you go to the temple for each amulet you want . making a direct donation which help the temple whom made the amulet in the first place .

instead of getting into the Trade of Amulet .

i myself like a few special range and had spend maybe 80-90k on Amulet i buy it for the Art work . during the Jatjukam collection owning a few of the " Kod set ti" edition whahhaha

so weird speaking on thai amulet as if i am collecting a frank miller first edition .

anyway happy hunting .

there is just too many COPY out there once it Gain Value .

if you feel that you get RIp off over 100b Tuk tuk Ride , wait till you meetthe Amulet guys that Bite your Arm off with a lookalike.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I hate wearing helmets, it's much more convenient to wear an amulet. The one I have protects me against accidents and does a great job, however I think I will need another one to protect me from police fines.

Any suggestions? If not then I'll just shop around, or ask the police directly.

[Ta22]

Don't you know the saying " Helmet is the best amulet to protect you from the police instead of an accident "

[LJW]

fyi: in Thai culture, the word "buy" (kai) is never used in regard to any Buddha Image (Phra Buddha Roob) or Holy Monk Amulet; the word "sell" (sur) is also never used.

FYI... the word for buy is sur, the word for sell is kai

[orang37]

FYI... the word for buy is sur, the word for sell is kai

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun LJW,

Thanks for un-scrambling our scrambled brain: we can only plead exhaustion due to heavy work-out while trying to "work-around" a hairline fractured rib, mental trauma from four days of house-guests from hell, and complex negotiations re an impending short-time contract to go work in America, to account for this ridiculous semantic error from someone(s) who has lived here eleven years (seven of those as a onesome, four as a twosome) !

best, ~o:37;

[ChinesePanda]

I think if I'm to look for a reasonable amulet that any thai would accept as a gift or token of appreciation I would have to take a morning stroll along Ratanakosin Road on Sunday morning flea market, pick up any old looking amulet in individual plastic see-thru case, pretent to look under the provided magnifying glass and act like a pro, then offer not more than 250thb, if you are comfortable with the piece in your hand then you might feel your palm feeling a little warm of your face going red, then buy it for yourself, if not, pay and gift wrap it for your thai friend.

You may disagree, but I feel the good ones are not the ones in the shops but rather the good ones are in someones collections, as such in the flea markets.

Sincerely.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

In our haste (and exhausted state) when we wrote last night, we may (as we often pratfall into) have been less than as "balanced" in our comments re amulets or talismans, and Buddha images.

A few additional comments:

1. There are many Thais who wear amulets who have no belief whatsoever in the "Phra lang" magical aspect of some special, protective energy, or spritual power. They wear out of pride in their home-town, district, jungwat, etc., or, perhaps, a special Wat where they went through a season as a Monk as part of the Thai rite-of-passage to manhood, or some moment of personal contact with a specific Monk that has some life-long meaning for them, or their ancestors.

A good example is the wearing of amulets of Khru Baa Siwitchai, the famous Monk of Doi Suthep so many years ago, who was always "in trouble" with the central Buddhist Sangha in Bangkok, and was never given high ecclesiastical rank (the title of "Luang Por"). Khru Baa is symbolic for many Lanna people of the original Lanna culture (and language and script, Cam Meung) so fully absorbed and brought under control by Central Thailand under King Rama III to King Rama V for geo-political reasons (to combat colonial power threats would be only one of the many complex reasons).

fyi: there is a "cult" of Khru Baa extant in southern Myanmar and parts of Laos where he is actually "worshipped."

2. To correct any impression that Thai women are not involved with wearing of amulets, we should mention that they do, and many devotees of Mae Kwan Im (the female manifestation of the Dhyana Buddha/Boddhisattva Avalokitesvara, aka "Goddess of Mercy" from the later Mahayana tradition) wear small images of Her, and also other, natively Thai amulets. But is more of a "male" thing in Thai culture. We met a Danish woman several years ago who was doing a Ph.D. thesis on the rapidly growing "Mae Kwan Im" religion or movement among the Chinese-Thai middle-class and upper-middle-class in Bangkok: typically, after becoming a "follower" of Mae Kwan Im, the person would become vegetarian.

3. Making of amulets, has historically been done by ordained Monks as an act of merit, "tamboon" : in modern times this has morphed into mass production of amulets, often in factories outside Wats, which are then ceremonially blessed by Monks (or not). Some continue to be hand-made by Monks, however, in the traditional way.

4. There is no evidence that the manufacture of amulets is a "classic" part of a Theravadan Monk's role and duties as embodied in the ancient (vast, encyclopedic) body of work (the Vinaya, whose development occupied a great deal of the historical Buddha's life, and has been revised many times in the various world-councils, including the sixth World Council here in Chiang Mai in the 15th. centure CE at Wat Chet Yot during the reign of King Tilokkaraja: Wat Chet Yot was built by this King in deliberate architectural imitiation of the famous Mahabodhi Buddhist temple in India specifically for the purpose of the council) that governs every aspect of a Monk's life and behavior in and outside the Wat.

In fact there were no images of the Buddha in human form made in the first couple of hundred years after his death; with the exception of a "legendary" sandalwood image that has never been seen.

The first images of the Buddha, qua human, were made in Gandhara, in what is now Afghanistan, circa (not exactly known numer of) years before and after year zero of the Christian calendar by Hellenic culture descendants of the racial-ethnic mix of the left-behind warriors of Alexander the Great, and the local Bactrians: they visually have Caucasian faces, and, strangely, often, with their mustaches and long hair, look like rock-musicians of the 1960's. Near that time, in India, in the area of Mathura, a similar Hellenic inspired style appeared.

The historical Buddha (Gauatama) was represented visually for centuries after his death only by symbolic iconic referrents such as: a conch shell, an empty "teaching throne," an ever-renewing vase of flowers (purnagatha), a symbolic wheel (dharmachakra), or a deer (both wheel and deer: reflecting the "Turning of the Wheel" revelation of the Dharma in the Deer Park at Sarnath in India), etc.

5. While we have forgotten the exact source in our reading in Thai history (in English translation) several years ago, King Rama IV (King Mongkut) expresses surprise, in a letter, about the wearing of small Buddha images by the nobility.

6. A major use of small Buddha images was in warfare (technically these are "Phra Yod Tong"), for magical protective reasons, and the "head magician" of the ancient armies, had an important role which is reflected in the great literary Thai epic "Khun Chang and Khun Paen." By the way, a new translation in English of this fascinating work by Chris Baker and Khun Pasuk Phongpaichit, has just been issued: Khun Chang, Khun Paen by Silkworm Books: and this legendary story has been the subject of many Thai movies. Khun Paen was a hell-raising womanizer, subject to insane jealousy related to his amours, and he, in a "fit" of magical rage took a dead human foetus, and created the magical being known as "Ku Man Thong;" and yes, there are amulets of Ku Man Thong (appears as a small child) which have some very special traditions associated with them ... therin lies a long and interesting story. If you have an amulet or statue of Ku Man Thong, and do not "treat him right," you can be "in for" some big magical trouble !

Khun Paen became the "master mojo maker" for the armies of Ayudhya, and, in the legend: at one point, Ku Man Thong, in his demonic form, flies around the battlefield ripping out the throats of the hated Burmese attackers.

7. The "Jatukham and Ramathep" amulets mentioned above were created, in recent times. by a Thai policeman based on a contemporary work of literature: on his death they became a "fad," and a "craze," and at one point there was even a kind of daily stock-market where values of certain editions were quoted. Jatukham Ramathep The market in these amulets exceeded billions of baht circa 2007 CE. And they are now, mostly, valueless. Like "hula hoops" in America ? Also see Nation reportage on Jatukham and Ramathep

We found the whole phenomenon very strange since the symbolism of the Jatukham was two brothers from the period when southern Thailand was under control of the Srivijayan empire: i.e., the southern part of what is now Thailand was under the control of an empire whose leaders were Malays, even though they did relocate the capital to southern Thailand. Also the underlying symbolism is held by many experts to refer to Avalokitesvara Dhyana Buddha/Boddhisattva which is from the later so-called Mahayana tradition, and distincly not from the Theravadan tradition with which Thai national identity is so strongly associated. Of course you can see the Indic/Mahayana tradition alive and well, co-existing without "cognitive dissonance" for Thais, in Bangkok, every day of the week at the Erawan Shrine (also of very recent origin).

We felt that the "fad" was related to the cultural insecurity and uncertainty following the coup of the time period preceding the fad.

At one point, in the Jatukham fad, a Thai Air flight was chartered, filled with Monks, and then flown around over southern Thailand, while the Monks on board made Jatukham amulets which then had very high value when "rented" !

And so it goes on ... endlessly.

best, ~o:37;

Edited December 29, 2010 by orang37

[Ta22]

Take a trip up Suthep and buy one from the temple .

is worth more value then one you get from the street by heart .

[cmsally]

There are many, many fakes. Most serious Thai collectors would head for Tippanetr Market, but even then there are fakes. Most of the better ones go to known private collectors by word of mouth, but you still might find some at Tippanetr.

It is very difficult to judge whether fake or not, with much study of markings, texture etc.

A little like antiques but from what I see more difficult.

My husband is an avid collector, but I haven't got a clue

[cmsally]

Thank you for reminding of the past fad in Jatukam "bulletcatchers".

I remember the story of a temple (people associated with it) that had gone into debt, borrowing money for mass production. Alas bottom dropped out of the market before they got off the production line ! The picture in the newspaper showed box upon box of them in a room in the temple somewhere.

[orang37]

Thank you for reminding of the past fad in Jatukam "bulletcatchers".

I remember the story of a temple (people associated with it) that had gone into debt, borrowing money for mass production. Alas bottom dropped out of the market before they got off the production line ! The picture in the newspaper showed box upon box of them in a room in the temple somewhere.

Sawasdee Krup, Khun CMSally,

Talat Thipanet would be the "bottom of the barrel" among venues renting amulets or Buddha images in Chiang Mai. There are only two dealers there we would even consider visiting. Chances of a person who is not "well grounded" in what they are looking for getting overcharged highly for a fake are, ioho, high.

But, on the other hand, if true age and "identity" is not a criterion, there are some very nicely done up reproductions with very nice aesthetic value that can be had very "cheaply" there: if you know how to bargain in Thai.

As far as we know, the Jatukham and Ramathep amulets were never associated with protection from bullets, knives, etc. Those magical implements with those protective powers would have been the "Phra Yod Thong" Buddha images issued to warriors mentioned in our previous post, along with magical tattooes, magical shirts covered with symbolic designs and Pali glyphs (yan), and magical belts (a form of a class of objects called "Takut"). And, of course, pre-warfare rituals and blessings.

best, ~o:37;

[cmsally]

I refer to them as bulletcatchers due to their large size and maybe roughly covering the heart area !!

Maybe just enough protection to deflect.

[orang37]

Take a trip up Suthep and buy one from the temple .

is worth more value then one you get from the street by heart .

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Ta22,

When you say, here, "by heart:" that does "reverberate" for us: the first major Buddha image we rented perhaps eleven years ago, in the upstairs of the main Night Bazaar building (when we knew nothing about the fakery, and were just starting to get oriented in the history of Theravadan Buddhist iconography and its evolution), is a lovely teak Buddha in a classic Shan style (but "understated" visually compared to most other examples of that genre). We rented for equivalent to US $800 from a dealer who swore up and down it was at least three-hundred years old.

Of course, two years later, we realized it was faked, a product of one of the many villages in Burma that do nothing but create fakes, often out of genuinely very old teak wood from abandoned temples, for export to market in Thailand, and via Thailand abroad.

That Buddha image is still our major household "shrine," and it is, aesthetically, very lovely. And when we burn incense in the morning, and light a candle, in front of it (not because we are Buddhist in religion ... we are not, in any "formal" way... but because we like the feeling of starting the day with a small "ritual" to honor the gift of being alive, and awake again, and healthy), we feel that Buddha image embodies a lesson for us in many ways ... no bitterness involved, no sense of being stupid, involved.

We think if an amulet, or Buddha image, appeals to you "by heart," that's a fine reason to temporarily provide a home for it on your person, or in your house.

But, we also hope you will be wiser, or have better advice, when you "rent" than we did, and not "gift" a dealer with a profit equal to more than 75-90% of what he or she "rented" the piece for. You can be sure the Burmese craftspeople who spent hours creating the piece, and artificially aging it, it were compensated meagerly.

best, ~o:37;

[mamborobert]

Many thanks to one and all so far, some useful and interesting information. This could start a very dangerous trend on Thaivisa

As a casual observer it appears to me that there has been an increase in monk faced amulets of late and whilst I note that much of the discussion on the history of amulets in general, it would appear, to me, that the abundance of monk faced amulets is not a progression but rather a development.

I say this as likening the practice of monk faced amulets to that of the last Pope who churned out saints (a saint factory as it were) so much so that he created more saints than all the other Popes combined. In doing so he moved away from an ideal "Italian" model for saints and basically gave many countries, cities, towns, hamlets, and religious orders their own saint. A saint as such is then more valued in one area that another, (if they are valued in another area at all), and also helps to regionalise and enliven faith.

Given this I thought that the monk faced amulets would be generally differentially valued/treasured on a regional basis (my monk is better than your monk). with very little assessable differences other than "faith", again the mysterious Catholic virtue. They would also be another way to emphasise Thai buddhism from other strains.

As a side when I first mentioned to wifey that Buddha was from India it was regarded with some siginificant distaste. Discussions then followed with her friends which then came to the conclusion that "Buddha was from India but not from India" which I still do not understand other than taking it as another way for Thais to legitimise a "national" based Buddhism. Certainly there was no desire to view Buddha as Inidan/Nepalese or Aryan based on her (or her friends) current level of exposure and knowledge of these peoples,

Anyhow..it seems to me that a Buddha image is a safer bet in the longer term as far as acceptance ( ie I could pick the wrong monk) and value as I would imagine that not all living or recently deceased monks would have longevity in value (similar but not on the same scale as Jatukam) if (as I believe) the monk faced amulets are recent and localised.

Happt to be corrected on any of the above and once again thanks to all so far....

[cmsally]

There are some monks (mostly deceased) where the amulets are much sought after ie LuangPor Tuad, Kruba Srivichai, Luangpor Toh ......

There are the Somdej - which I believe are also blessed by certain monks/temples and the Phra Pit Dta also again with their respective origin.

In the north much sought after are Phrao Rod, Phra Kong and Phra Lob

Then there is also the Benjakapee:

Benjapakee

Wow, I really have to stop here, as I will be as bad as my husband soon

[orang37]

There are some monks (mostly deceased) where the amulets are much sought after ie LuangPor Tuad, Kruba Srivichai, Luangpor Toh ......

There are the Somdej - which I believe are also blessed by certain monks/temples and the Phra Pit Dta also again with their respective origin.

In the north much sought after are Phrao Rod, Phra Kong and Phra Lob

Then there is also the Benjakapee:

Benjapakee

Wow, I really have to stop here, as I will be as bad as my husband soon

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun CmSally,

"Phra Phit Da" (sacred image with "closed eyes") are a fascinating icon: there are the simple ones in which only the eyes are covered with the hands, and the complex ones (Phra Phit Da Mahaoot) where multiple hands cover every body orifice. Most scholars believe this icon is absolutely not Buddhist at all, but animist, long pre-dates Buddhism in origin: although some Thais will claim it was invented here in Thailand in the last two-hundred years. We saw a very famous one of these in Bangkok on display being rented for 500k baht, supposedly from Nakhorn Si Thammarat (called by Farangs in ancient times: "Ligor").

We have a wonderful gold-plated reproduction, in that same very famous style, issued by a Wat as a fund-raiser about thirty-forty years ago, in our collection: major mojo ! On the back of this rare style are a Rahu (the Indian planet/deity who causes eclipses by eating the sun or the moon), and stylized versions of the Thai symbol known as the "unalom" which some believe may be related, in origin, to the ancient Vedic/Aryan/Hinduism glyph for the sacred mantra, "Aum."

The "Phra Somdech," which we never get involved with (whitish: ceramic, or glazed clay mixed with a variety of other organic materials), very "minimal" and "simple" in design, are among the most widely faked. And, at the top end, are rented for, literally, millions of baht. If you ever attend a "regional Buddha show" (held in different parts of Thailand every few months or so), you may see a line of people waiting to pay 1000 baht to a man with a US $ very expensive Bausch and Lomb stereo medical microscope for an examination and consultation on amulets like Phra Somdech, Phra Rod (ancient Mon Kingdom of Haripunchai circa 900-1100 CE in what is now Lamphun), etc.

When you get to the "Benjakapee," the super-set of the five most "mojo-full" set of amulets, you are talking status symbols, and, for the real things, many millions of baht.

We have heard the tale of a Thai Lieutenant-Colonel who was promoted to Lieutenant General, after a gift of a 600k baht Phra Somdech to his superior officer, but, of course, how would we, a mere mix of farang and orang, know whether that was true ?

best, ~o:37;

[Soulwy]

I think if I'm to look for a reasonable amulet that any thai would accept as a gift or token of appreciation I would have to take a morning stroll along Ratanakosin Road on Sunday morning flea market, pick up any old looking amulet in individual plastic see-thru case, pretent to look under the provided magnifying glass and act like a pro, then offer not more than 250thb, if you are comfortable with the piece in your hand then you might feel your palm feeling a little warm of your face going red, then buy it for yourself, if not, pay and gift wrap it for your thai friend.

You may disagree, but I feel the good ones are not the ones in the shops but rather the good ones are in someones collections, as such in the flea markets.

Sincerely.

A flea market on Sunday morning? I love flea markets...where about is it? Near the bridge or where it meets Kaeo Nawarat Road?

[ChinesePanda]

I think if I'm to look for a reasonable amulet that any thai would accept as a gift or token of appreciation I would have to take a morning stroll along Ratanakosin Road on Sunday morning flea market, pick up any old looking amulet in individual plastic see-thru case, pretent to look under the provided magnifying glass and act like a pro, then offer not more than 250thb, if you are comfortable with the piece in your hand then you might feel your palm feeling a little warm of your face going red, then buy it for yourself, if not, pay and gift wrap it for your thai friend.

You may disagree, but I feel the good ones are not the ones in the shops but rather the good ones are in someones collections, as such in the flea markets.

Sincerely.

A flea market on Sunday morning? I love flea markets...where about is it? Near the bridge or where it meets Kaeo Nawarat Road?

the area is between the Prince College and the tennis courts, probably some activities could be seen close to the bridge junction with the sets of traffic lights.

[Ta22]

amulet or wooden image or a symbol or faith . is just Item used to remind us of what we learn from the teaching that we felt bring meaning to our meaningless life .

Real or Fake in my view does not make much different in how a teaching had been pass down from many years ago .

but of cos it got to do with Poor judgment and financially . then again . when the time come . you can;t bring anything with you .

one can stare at the image of a cow and think of Buddha teaching and still be a great person if he follow the right teaching but stare at the wrong image .

[elektrified]

I think if I'm to look for a reasonable amulet that any thai would accept as a gift or token of appreciation I would have to take a morning stroll along Ratanakosin Road on Sunday morning flea market, pick up any old looking amulet in individual plastic see-thru case, pretent to look under the provided magnifying glass and act like a pro, then offer not more than 250thb, if you are comfortable with the piece in your hand then you might feel your palm feeling a little warm of your face going red, then buy it for yourself, if not, pay and gift wrap it for your thai friend.

You may disagree, but I feel the good ones are not the ones in the shops but rather the good ones are in someones collections, as such in the flea markets.

Sincerely.

A flea market on Sunday morning? I love flea markets...where about is it? Near the bridge or where it meets Kaeo Nawarat Road?

It's before the bridge right at Prince Royal's College. It's quite large and goes all the way to the next major street on the other side of the Prince Royal's and Payap campuses.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

At the risk of deluging you with more information than most of you will ever want to know, we wish to add a few additional comments to this topic.

Dr. Piriya Kraikirsh, Thai (Harvard, Ph.D.), commented in an introduction to a "exhibition book" produced for a special "museum loan" showing of famous Buddha images of Thailand in Tokyo, that Thailand has as many Buddha images as people: referring to the fact that in the past, when Chedis were built and dedicated, many thousands of small clay amulets would be buried underneath ... even the poorest Buddhist could afford one of these as an offering. In the casting of some of Thailand's major Buddhas the rich would add their gold or silver jewellery, etc. to the molten bronze. Acts of Merit (tamboon).

The "surplus" of these staggering numbers of excavated clay and organic material amulets has resulted in an interesting modern fakery practice: objects made from glass, or at best quartz, are now tarted up to look like ancient rock crystal pieces by crushing these old amulets and painting their powder, using superglue, into the cracks to emulate the chelation (fusing) of ground-water mineral materials onto long-buried rock-crystal (Chiang Mai's Amphur Hot was for centuries the primary source of the genuine rock crystal used in the most valuable ancient crystal images).

This is the same Dr. Krairkish that: when he finally dared publish his research in Thai, that the so-called Ramkamhaeng Stone of ancient Sukhothai was most likely a fake created by the future King Mongkut (at the time a Monk, not yet King, when he "disovered" it personally in the 1830's) designed to impress colonial powers with a fictional ancient history of Siam as "civilised." This stone was so important to HM Rama IV that he brought it to Bangkok for his coronation, and actually sat upon it while being consecrated.

This resulted in 5000 residents of Sukhothai holding a riotous protest, and performing a ritual cursing (probably using the most powerful kind of magical cursing, which, for Thais, is always Cambodian) of Dr. Krairkish, and led to his probably being denied presidency of the Siam Society. He is reported to have been personally severely depressed following the ritual, but that's hearsay, even though we heard it from someone who knows him personally.

Previously, we mentioned the hypothetical "aniconic" period from perhaps 500BCE to circa 1~200CE during which images, in anthropomorphic, human, form, of the historical Buddha, Gautama, Sakyamuni, the Tathagata, were not part of Buddhism's visual iconography, but His presence was signified visually, by conch-shell, dharma wheel, deer, ever-renewing flower vase, the Bodhi Tree (asvattha), stupas (chedis), an empty "teaching throne," a footprint, etc.

But, it is important to note that a very active debate about what "aniconism" means in early Buddhist art is on-going. One example: the famous temple of Bodh Gaya (site of the Buddha's paranirvana or paranibbana) under the Bodhi tree, built by King Asoke of India circa 3d. century BCE (the King who converted to Buddhism after walking through the thousands of corpses of warriors, women, and children, of his destroyed final enemies in his struggle for control of most of what is now India), and the King who dispatched "missionaries" (most unusual in the context of Buddhism's history of non-proselytizing) to many places in Asia, and S.E. Asia, almost certainly including Thailand.

A thirteenth century CE Monk, Dharmasvamin, visited the temple of Bodh Gaya, and described it thus: "inside the courtyard stood the empty throne of Sakyamuni . . . which

was worshipped, and an eternal offering lamp was kept in front of it." [1]

Yet, by this time, 13th. CE, Asia was "full of" representations of the Buddha in human form.

And "Indian Nationalism" has come into play here: to quote Huntington: "Ananda Coomaraswamy and his Indian nationalist sympathizers, perhaps attempting to cast off the yoke of Western imperialism, asserted a strictly Indian origin [inserted by o37: of Buddha images in human form] at Mathura." [2] Coomaraswamy was of Sri-Lankan and English parentage, spent much of his life in England from age two on, after his Sri Lankan father died.

In conclusion: scholars like S. L. Huntington have raised a significant challenge to what the absence of representations of the historical Buddha in human form "mean" in visual art pre- and post- century 0 CE. And have challenged the dating of many contemporary depictions (in temple panels, in artifacts, etc.). Scholars debate whether Mathuran Buddhas in India precede Gandharan Buddhas from what is now Afghanistan, and to what extent Mathuran Buddhas show Graeco-Hellenic influences taken from Gandhara.

[1] George N. Roerich, trans., Biography of Dharmasvamin (Chag lo tsa-ba Chos-rje-dpal), A Tibetan Monk Pilgrim (Patna: K. R Jayaswal Research Institute, 1959), 71. Cited in : "Early Buddhist art and the Theory of Aniconism" by S. L. Huntington, Art Journal, Vol. 49 No. 4 Winter.1990, Pp.401-408

[2] Huntington, op. cit.

Of course this flea on a tick in the ear of a mangy soi dog, does not have the training, education, and intellectual tools, to discuss or analyze the issues mentioned here except in the most casual way. You can, re what is said here, "think nothing of it," or, to put a more "Buddhist spin" on that (?) : "think of it: nothing."

~o:37;

[mamborobert]

Just a quick report back on a visit to the flea market (next to Prince's) on my amulet hunt

Firstly it is big, goes entire length of street and then spreads down adjoinging sois, and t junction at the end.

Quite literally oodles of amulet desks.

For those of you who like flea markets it is full of the usual brickabat, car parts, casette tapes, second hand clothes, army surplus, second hand watches, ....it appears the crap sold at flea markets is universal...the only thing different with this to a western one was the amulets. A handful of farangs selling stuff as well (football memorabillia etc).

And on to the amulets...there were quite literally thousands most ranging in price from 20 to 80 baht (reflecting Thai clientele).

A lot was mass produced stuff in cases, different monk amulets, the King, older Kings etc.

Whilst I have no knowledge of what is good, through previous careers I have a good knowledge of what is not good. A lot still "smelled" new, some had manufactured and uniform seams, polished rather than scraped backs, even to the millimetre on 4 sides, no wear of ageing, or a combination of perfect sides but aged. You would see various aged medallions or amulets in the exact same mass produced lockets, or attempts at ornate lockets through thinly plated metals to beautify older appearing items.

On some of the larger displays once I had established that what was available was not to my liking the good stuff came out from cars, locked cases, top pockets.

Purchased four very nice peices and more than happy (three as presents and unplanned one very small figure for myself). You are not going to find ancient pieces, or discover a hidden gem by any means. Having said that some of the Thais were very impressed by pieces that were perhaps 50 years old at most, perhaps the value for them being in a known monk or temple rather than value in a monetary or antiquity sense.

Showed the intended recipient the peices as he is (as stated before) an enthusiastic admirer/adherent. He studied each piece earnestly , backfront, different light, under magnification and pronounced them all very good.

He was quite shocked, perplexed, and speechless when I said they were his as presents for the new year. He ran off to have deep and meaningful convrsatons with my siginificant other as to why I had did this, and did I know what I was doing giving these pieces to him.

Once satisfied that all was on the up they now adorn his neck.

One happy Buddhist and having seen his joy more than a little bit of Matthew 6:19-21 for myself.

The Flea Market is definately a place I will go again to wander aimlously. Not a place as much to look for speciic items (other than amulets) but wander and let the unplanned junk piece purchase of your dreams leap out at you, and wander who would by such crap as what is next your dream item as you reach for your money.

Edited January 8, 2011 by mamborobert