Gay, Gray, And Retired In The Los

[FLYBOY]

First of all, thanx and a tip of the hat to all of you in this forum and the other forums of ThaiVisa.Com who have contributed the past couple of years. Your insights and observations have been a big help to me as I mull over whether or not to retire in Thailand. But now it's time for me to move out of the shadows as one of those despised "lurkers" and become a poster.

My questions today are mainly for the older members of the forum but I welcome input, too, from the younger regulars like "IJustWannaTeach" and "ChrisP" et al.

I'm recently retired and in my mid-50's. I have done the tourist thing to Thailand numerous times and am pretty familiar with Bangkok, Pattaya, and Koh Sumui. I will be going to Thailand in October for several months.

Based on your replies in this and other ThaiVisa forums, I figure my monthly retirement is enough to allow me to retire in the LOS without having to work. Nevertheless, I know that daily trips to the beach and even daily sex with a young Thai partner (rented or otherwise) is going to get old very fast. Certainly the prospect of sitting on a bar stool with other fat, balding old farts swilling Singha for hours at a time is not only NOT appealing but actually kinda frightening. And so, the first questions: How do you fill your days? Do you feel the need to work as a means of filling the days?

Many of the Str8 farang in Thailand have Thai wives/girl friends who run the hurdles of renting homes, hooking-up utilities, finding decent medical care, dealing with Thai immigration/bank officials etc etc. As gay men coming to Thailand, we normally come alone. My next questions: Have you been able to hook up with other farang willing to help you settle in and deal with the aforementioned issues? Has loneliness been a major issue? Is there much mutual support coming from other gay farang where you live?

I appreciate any observations or experiences you care to share with the rest of us!

Edited August 24, 2005 by FLYBOY

[Ijustwannateach]

Hey, Flyboy!

Being a working stiff myself, I don't have the problems of filling free time that you do- but actually my best group of friends here are older, gay, and either retired or near retirement. They seem to find enough things to do (without hanging out in bars all the time) and have plenty of farang friends to socialize with. They have different styles- some of them wouldn't be seen at a gay bar; some of them swear by MBs- but all of them seem to get enough of the kind of action they want.

I'd say whether or not you become a permanent bar fixture depends a lot on whether you have any outside interests or hobbies you can work on. Any projects that you've always wanted to do "if you just had a bit more time?" Now's the moment!

Good to see another lurker coming out!

"Steven"

[Steve2UK]

Hi Flyboy - and welcome

I should qualify my observations by saying that I'm not actually in LOS "doing it" yet - but I've spent most of this year preparing for the move (target date around February next year).

I'm a similar age and in probably a similar financial situation. Having checked out pretty well all the practical factors both from a distance and with a lot of on the spot "research", I'm entirely happy that I can put together and maintain a comfortable lifestyle in LOS. As it happens, I chose Chiang Mai - largely because it's what I regard as a real "working" city and not a resort-type place like Samui, Pattaya, Phuket etc; it also has a major university and is very much the capital of the north. Sad to say it doesn't have a beach.........

My take on the gay and gray situation in LOS is that there's little reason for it to be significantly different from its straight and gray equivalent - i.e. you'll very likely acquire a partner/boyfriend who'll be able to do much the same "running the hurdles" for you as a wife/girlfriend would. After all he doesn't have to be a complete fluff-head and, come to that, there's no guarantee that a Thai wife/girlfriend would be any more practical in that area.

On the farang side, I found it easy to hook up with others already living there and I've already benefited from a lot of first-hand face to face advice and help on deciding/dealing with practical matters - and it has been largely irrelevant whether they're gay or straight. But, then, I have as many straight friends as gay ones and I tend to want to avoid sexuality being an issue outside the bedroom. Of course, it has been rather more useful to compare notes with a fellow-gay farang where relationships are concerned.

I do think that common to both straight and gay farangs living in LOS is a desire for some privacy - if only for the reason that many of them have moved there at least partly because they want to get away from many things western - so some discretion on the part of the farang newcomer is called for. That said, a fresh face and a fresh mind seem to be always welcome so it's unlikely to be long before you'd build up a network of friends/contacts.

Like you, I'm no fan of wearing out bar-stools day after day, night after night. I don't know Pattaya but I can't help feeling that a predominantly leisure/pleasure-oriented resort place is not for me as a place to live - hence my choice of Chiang Mai and I can visit the other places as and when I feel like being a tourist or taking a leisure break.

I have only one (very slight) hovering reservation about my upcoming move to LOS - and it is the other one you've mentioned i.e. might I get bored? As IJWT says, you should definitely look to those interests for which you've not had the time until now - but that would be true wherever you became retired. For me, that's actually less of an issue moving to LOS than staying in my home base (London) - precisely because I will have so much of my time taken up in the first two years with a] learning the language properly and b] getting to know and settling into my new home. Others may disagree about the need to learn the language; personally, I see it as essential to open up the Thailand that exists beyond the farang hang-outs, enabling me to explore further and deeper so that I'm not limited to a closed circle.

Aside from that, I plan to write a lot more than I've had the time and clear head to do until now. I may also get involved with a little business activity on the side (as a small investor and providing some marketing input), but that can be a minefield if I trespass on the work restrictions - and I don't actually need it financially.

A good friend in a similar position reminded me of a very important point - that you always take yourself with you wherever you go. I agree - but I also believe that we can drop at least some of our accumulated baggage, change ourselves and start to be/do something new with a different outlook on life. It's a challenge and it's an adventure. How much it will be doors opening and how much will feel like you've marooned yourself depends very much on the person you are and can be - I'm sure you already know that nobody can give you a definitive answer about that. On the other hand, some places will have more doors.........

One practical point. In your budgeting, I would recommend including a decent allowance for travel inside and near Thailand say once a year (at least). Don't just imagine that you'll spend all the time in the place you decide to live - your new home base also brings you a lot closer to a range of other opportunities.

Finally, you say that you'll be going to Thailand for several months shortly. That sounds like you're doing almost a "trial run". If so, I think it's an excellent approach and you will soon get all the answers that your previous (tourist?) visits weren't able to supply. I'd say it's sensible to try out one place for most of that stay so as to get the feel of living there as opposed to visiting, but I hope you'll use some of the time to compare other locations as well?

In any event, congratulations and enjoy the ride - LOS certainly isn't Kansas

Edited August 25, 2005 by Steve2UK

[ChrisP]

Hi Flyboy.

and

I agree with all that Steve2UK says above... I would say don't worry. If you can stand the humidity.. everything else will be ok.

I've been doing a kind-of trial run this year myself.. for about 10 weeks... really trying to NOT be a tourist in BKK... and adding up what I spend, etc.

I have to say I enjoy having little pressure to "do" things here... compared to 2 jobs in the USA. But I have found a few "work" things to occupy me.. as well as shopping, going to the gym, going bowling, movies, taking pictures, etc.. etc. and gone to HKong and Singapore too.

I've managed to fill my days quite well.. and not be bored. I have also met several ex-pat farangs to maintain my sanity for English.. and got UBC Cable too.

I have a Thai bf.. which also keeps you busy ... but he is also useful for doing all those things that would be twice as hard (and maybe help prevent you getting "taken" a little in the bargain..)! So they ARE useful.

I'm trying to see if I can take BKK long-term... the verdict is still out on that.!

Cheers

ChrisP

[Guest endure]

Hi Flyboy - and welcome 

I should qualify my observations by saying that I'm not actually in LOS "doing it" yet - but I've spent most of this year preparing for the move (target date around February next year).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can I be rude and ask what sort of budget you reckon will see you right in Chang Mai? I'm twitching in the traps at the moment but I'm waiting for the change in pension rules in the UK next April.

[ChrisP]

My pension next year (if I take it) will be about 85k baht / month.

I reckon I'll be ok on that.

ChrisP

[Steve2UK]

Hi Flyboy - and welcome 

I should qualify my observations by saying that I'm not actually in LOS "doing it" yet - but I've spent most of this year preparing for the move (target date around February next year).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can I be rude and ask what sort of budget you reckon will see you right in Chang Mai? I'm twitching in the traps at the moment but I'm waiting for the change in pension rules in the UK next April.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem (doesn't seem rude to me ). Assuming that I'm renting a medium house, but already own a car + motorbike and have already kitted out the house with the things I want, I reckon the monthly living/running costs to be getting on for about 45,000 baht for me. I'm including ADSL internet, top-of-range cable/satellite TV package etc - and eating at home or Thai-style out most of the time and "treating" European maybe once/twice a week.

On top of that, I would allow another 150,000 baht or so per year to cover medical contingency (I'll self-insure), travel and more expensive "fun" (scuba in my case). That's starting to nudge towards 60,000 baht per month, Still feels like a pessimistic estimate and I think it's probably a fair bit too much after the first year of settling in and getting to know the local ropes well enough to buy well.

I posted a breakdown of the basic figure a while back; since then, I've tweaked some of the individual figures (rent higher and food/entertainment lower) but the basic total still seems to be about right:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...91entry371091

As I mentioned in that post, it's sensible to take a cautious view about the exchange rate - £ = 74 baht today but that can change..............

When you say you're waiting for a change in the UK pension rules next April, do you mean just the annual increase or something more fundamental?

Feel free to PM me if you want to compare notes on any of this.

Edited August 25, 2005 by Steve2UK

[PeaceBlondie]

I'll be 63 in a few days, and lived in Chiang Mai for two years before moving to Hua Hin a month ago. Your first issue has nothing special to do with sexual orientation or Thailand; it's called retirement. If you haven't prepared yourself to stop working, it'll be a shock.

I worked full time as much as I could for the first two years, and had a live-in Thai boyfriend most of that time, overlapping with numerous money boys by which I swear. (IJWT, you were referring to moi, I presume?).

If you stop working after 40 years of full time work, you'll be amazed how many minutes there are in a day. I'm on page 318 of my first and only novel, and I try to ride my motorbike when I'm not falling off it.

Beware of expatriates who do nothing but sit on barstools. They turn into broccoli.

[ProThaiExpat]

The posts in this thread are outstanding and Steve2uk and ChrisP are to be congratulated on their balanced and informative replies to what is a very difficult question. It does depend so much on the individual, including spending.

I find that Thailand offers the retiree as much to do as almost anywhere else in the world. I agree with ChrisP's remark about the humidity. For that, I spend 5k a month for electricity and aircon in the summer months and 1.5k a month during the winters in Chiang Mai. Pay attention to Chris'.s figures if your planning on livng in Bangkok and Steve2uk's figures for Chiang Mai, there is an a appreciable difference.

Perhaps, you should start thinking of what you would do if you were retired in your home country and then ask yourself if you can do that in Thailand. Retirement planning and your activities during retirement involve major life style changes and many of them can be anticipated by just sitting down where your are now and planning on how you would spend your day in your home country once retired. We can help on translating that to Thailand.

I am planning a three month western culture "fix" at Manly beach with my daugter for the holidays and have wondered if that is too long to stay there and what I would do during the days after she is off to work or involved in her office at home. The answer is so simple. I would do the same things I do here in my home in Chiang Mai. Perhaps walk by the beach more since she lives overlooking one, but not much different than here.

I have thought of returning to my home country as a passing idea during retirement and I have concluded that I would do the same things there as I do here in Chiang Mai.

As to the issue of help getting adjusted, building your house, etc. Thaivisa is the answer for many things. Your love interest will be of much help, but keep in mind, their level of education and experience with things western will be determinative how helpful they can be other than pure interpreting the language.

Without Thaivisa or Homepro during my first year here and building my house, my Thai was essential. I had much building experience in my former life so just insisted on what I knew to be right, be done by my builder. It is up to you to determine if you want to go "native" or create a western style enviroment for you daily living or a blend of the two.

I believe you will slow down quite a lot in retirement in Thailand, a very good thing for most high powered western style execs. My days go by very quickly, but I don't worry about not getting something done when planned, as there is always another day to do it.

The old adages "know thyself" and "to thine own self be true" could not be more true for a potential retiree considering Thailand for your "golden years". I have never been happier in my life than I have been here in Thailand and my mate is sure part of that. Good Luck and welcome.

[Guest endure]

Can I be rude and ask what sort of budget you reckon will see you right in Chang Mai? I'm twitching in the traps at the moment but I'm waiting for the change in pension rules in the UK next April.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As I mentioned in that post, it's sensible to take a cautious view about the exchange rate - £ = 74 baht today but that can change.............. 

I know - it used to be £=40   

When you say you're waiting for a change in the UK pension rules next April, do you mean just the annual increase or something more fundamental?

There are going to be substantial and fundamental changes to private pensions. They affect both contributing and taking income from private pension plans. The main change for me is in the treatment of pension funds that have been built up by opting out of SERPS. At the moment if you have ex-SERPS funds you have to wait till you're 60 before you can buy an annuity. You have to buy an annuity that's index-linked at 3% (lower income) and that assumes you will leave a widow behind when you die (again lower income). You're not allowed any tax free cash either. From April 6th next year ex-SERPS funds will be treated the same as contributions you've made yourself. Do a Google on 'A day' for more details. 

I hope you're going to keep us up to date on your move to the LOS 

Edited August 26, 2005 by endure

[FLYBOY]

Thanks, guys, for your spot-on observations and advice. As ProThaiExpat, Steve2UK, and PeaceBlondie aptly point out, the issues raised apply to men generally who are facing retirement, regardless of sexual orientation or location. Men especially have their self-identity/self-worth tied up in the work they do. Take that away and we're thrown into crisis as we try to figure out who we are and how to be happy. My father retired in his mid-50's figuring he would spend the remainder of his life playing golf and reading. What a mistake as he filled the increasingly empty days with more and more drinking (hence my phobia about becoming a barstool cowboy!). After 2 years at this failed experiment, he went back to work, albeit at a reduced work load. He was never happier. And so was Mom!

Let me second Steve2UK's plan to study Thai once he settles down. I've lived in western Asia for over 13 years and tackled--or, more correctly, was TACKLED BY!--Korean when I was in my mid-30's. Attempting to learn the local language (and at our relatively advanced age, it's pretty unlikely we'll ever be mistaken for a native speaker!) provides a wonderful entree into the local culture and community that few tourists will every experience. Simply TRYING to speak the language shows a respect for the locals and your desire to truly become part of the community. Yeah, it's a master class in humility and embarassment (you'll never know how much of your ego is tied up in your ability to speak a language until you've been stripped of it!) but I suspect the Thais are very flattered simply by your attempt and will go out of their way to help you when you do. So-o-o, my questions du jour for those of you who have studied Thai: What was most difficult: grammar or linguistics (i.e. pronunciation/tones)? Did you begin studying Thai in its written form, a Romanized form, or aurally? How long did it take before you were able to engage in simple conversations in stores or to ask directions?

Thank you Steve2UK and ChrisP for sharing your budgets with us.

I look forward to all of your additional posts to this thread--it's been truly enlightening!

[ChrisP]

I am somewhat dismayed at how hard Thai has been for me to pick up.. compared to Spanish.. which I picked up VERY quickly.

I struggle with Tones more than anything else, since that's what seems to confude Thai listeners. I haven't even worried about grammar yet. I do intend to take a class.. i thought I would this time.. but I've been too busy!

Some people say that Thai is the hardest language in the world to learn. Others pick it up very quickly.

Btw, I reckon I just spent 4,000B last month in taxis/MRT/BTS getting around BKK without a car. I think that's fine.

ChrisP

[Steve2UK]

........I suspect the Thais are very flattered simply by your attempt and will go out of their way to help you when you do.  So-o-o, my questions du jour for those of you who have studied Thai:  What was most difficult:  grammar or linguistics (i.e. pronunciation/tones)?  Did you begin studying Thai in its written form, a Romanized form, or aurally?  How long did it take before you were able to engage in simple conversations in stores or to ask directions?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure if they're flattered, but always big smiles and occasionally falling about laughing.

So far, the grammar looks simpler than most languages I've encountered (I learned German as a semi-native kid and still get lost before the end of some sentences) - although Thai object classifiers look like they're going to be fun......

On visits some years back, I started off with the Robertson dictionary (yellow and pocket sized) which was very good (for me, anyhow) in terms of its Romanised phonetics and definitions. I also used phrases from the back of the Lonely Planet guide - they publish a small phrase book now. It was good to get me up and running in about a month for simple stuff.

That's a quick and dirty way, but the general consensus seems to be that if you a] want to master tones and b] progress beyond reasonable tourist Thai - you pretty well have to learn the script. Once learnt, it's like Roman languages - you pick up more and more by seeing it all around you - and it contains the tone marks.

On the aural side, I've bought a couple of CD-Rom courses that I can use on the computer to practice my pronounciations - and tune my ears to listen, come to that. I'm nowhere near proficient and don't expect to really get started up the slope until I'm there full-time and trying to use/hear Thai for real and "live" every day. And night............ .

There are many threads on the language sub-forum about this (hint ).

Edited August 26, 2005 by Steve2UK

[Steve2UK]

There are going to be substantial and fundamental changes to private pensions. They affect both contributing and taking income from private pension plans. The main change for me is in the treatment of pension funds that have been built up by opting out of SERPS. At the moment if you have ex-SERPS funds you have to wait till you're 60 before you can buy an annuity. You have to buy an annuity that's index-linked at 3% (lower income) and that assumes you will leave a widow behind when you die (again lower income). You're not allowed any tax free cash either. From April 6th next year ex-SERPS funds will be treated the same as contributions you've made yourself. Do a Google on 'A day' for more details. 

I hope you're going to keep us up to date on your move to the LOS 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks, Endure.

[ChrisP]

Men especially have their self-identity/self-worth tied up in the work they do. Take that away and we're thrown into crisis as we try to figure out who we are and how to be happy.

This is true, and it's why I'm trying to figure out how to be here, feel less pressure, and still do something rewarding for me. Part-time work that I can choose seems to be the answer so far.. we'll see as I spend more and more time here..

ChrisP

[Deadcert]

So I am not the only Farang poof in Hua Hin

I have a house here but am quite away from retirement age, I have spent quite a lot of time in Hua Hin and have decided that I will not retire here full time. I love Thailand but there are several issues that I find annoying and which recently have made me reconsider where I will end up living in the long term.

1) The need to gossip just drives me around the bend

2) The lack of purely social bars, where you can mix with the locals

3) The humidity/heat at certain times of the year

There are other reasons which don't really add up to much but which are niggling.

Maybe as I get older I will change my mind again but at the moment I favour a home in France, keeping one foot in Europe, and my home here, which I love, but I feel will need some time out from.

Thats my view anyhow.

I'll be 63 in a few days, and lived in Chiang Mai for two years before moving to Hua Hin a month ago.  Your first issue has nothing special to do with sexual orientation or Thailand; it's called retirement.  If you haven't prepared yourself to stop working, it'll be a shock.

I worked full time as much as I could for the first two years, and had a live-in Thai boyfriend most of that time, overlapping with numerous money boys by which I swear.  (IJWT, you were referring to moi, I presume?).

If you stop working after 40 years of full time work, you'll be amazed how many minutes there are in a day.  I'm on page 318 of my first and only novel, and I try to ride my motorbike when I'm not falling off it.

Beware of expatriates who do nothing but sit on barstools.  They turn into broccoli.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[jdinasia]

I moved to Thailand almost 2 years ago. I am 41 and don't work just go to school. Budget rather depends on what you need to have fun? I lived in Hua Hin for 6 months and even while attending school there I was bored off my ass.

The last 18 months in BKK however have been much more interesting. More things to do and an Intensive Thai language program to keep me busy.

I Pay my rent every 6 months and get about a 15% discount for doing so. Have a motorcycle I just don't ride in BKK. My Utilities run about 4000 a month (1500 cable, 2500 elec/water/phone/internet). I live in a nice condo building in the burbs near the largest mall. (for movies /food /etc ) Living this far out runs me about 160 baht M-F in taxis ... and then it is mostly skytrain etc.

I don't have to make visa runs (student visa). But the 2 times I have needed new visas I spent about $1000 usd each time and made a vacation out of it ... Singapore for a week and Cambodia for 10 days. Not an expense a retiree will worry about. (and I needed a break so I didn't worry about it either.)

Over-all not counting tuition I typically spend about 40k bht/month but that seems to be going down a bit as my fluency in thai increases.

[toptuan]

I am somewhat dismayed at how hard Thai has been for me to pick up.. compared to Spanish.. which I picked up VERY quickly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't feel too bad. Over the years I've had formal training in 9 languages, including Asian languages (Vietnamese and Japanese). Thai has been by far the hardest to pick up. I was always so confident of my language ability (like you, I virtually inhaled Spanish and it stuck), but Thai really took me down a notch. Also, it was natural for my Thai b/f to do the communication for us both when we were out in public (restaurants, bus travel, etc.). That held me back as well. Before, I had mostly traveled alone in the the target culture of my language study. When you gotta use the toilet, you learn how to speak a new foreign phrase very quickly (and it sticks). Resist the urge to let him do the talking. Remind him you'll never learn Thai if you use him as a crutch. It's part of his natural Thai urge to "take care of you" which makes this a bit of a tug-of-war.

After a year of disappointing progress, I started meeting a local tutor once or twice a week. He started drilling me on the Thai alphabet, (44 consonants, 22 vowels!) which I had ignored up to that time. Ah, detectable progress! I had been having a hard time trying to hear the ending sounds on words like "mahk" "mag" and "ma". Pronunciation for me took a huge jump when I started asking "how is that spelled"? There are so many subtle differences ("bp" vs "b", "td" vs. "t", etc.).

Also, like yourself, the tones baffled me, even though Vietnamese tones came fairly easily to me when I studied it. When I called role in my Thai university class, there were two young ladies' nicknames I could never get right. Their nicknames meant "little finger." When I pronounced it, however, it came out "penis." For three months, I could NOT hear the difference between the two pronunciations. And, for three months, calling role turned into a daily fiasco of guffaws and red faces.

The good news: Once you get here and immerse yourself in the culture as a full-time resident, you'll start getting "an ear" for the tones. It took me 18-24 months to start "hearing" it, and catching myself when I used the wrong tone.

By the way, now once in a while I pressure my Thai b/f to be quiet while I do the ordering in a restaurant. He squirms in agony, and we don't always get what I thought I ordered, but it's the better way. And, if we end up with a stewed frog instead of a fried fish, I can only blame myself.

If you're already starting with formal Thai study, including the alphabet, you'll be miles/kilometers ahead of myself. Good luck!

[Espada]

I am somewhat dismayed at how hard Thai has been for me to pick up.. compared to Spanish.. which I picked up VERY quickly.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't feel too bad. Over the years I've had formal training in 9 languages, including Asian languages (Vietnamese and Japanese). Thai has been by far the hardest to pick up. I was always so confident of my language ability (like you, I virtually inhaled Spanish and it stuck), but Thai really took me down a notch. Also, it was natural for my Thai b/f to do the communication for us both when we were out in public (restaurants, bus travel, etc.). That held me back as well. Before, I had mostly traveled alone in the the target culture of my language study. When you gotta use the toilet, you learn how to speak a new foreign phrase very quickly (and it sticks). Resist the urge to let him do the talking. Remind him you'll never learn Thai if you use him as a crutch. It's part of his natural Thai urge to "take care of you" which makes this a bit of a tug-of-war.

After a year of disappointing progress, I started meeting a local tutor once or twice a week. He started drilling me on the Thai alphabet, (44 consonants, 22 vowels!) which I had ignored up to that time. Ah, detectable progress! I had been having a hard time trying to hear the ending sounds on words like "mahk" "mag" and "ma". Pronunciation for me took a huge jump when I started asking "how is that spelled"? There are so many subtle differences ("bp" vs "b", "td" vs. "t", etc.).

Also, like yourself, the tones baffled me, even though Vietnamese tones came fairly easily to me when I studied it. When I called role in my Thai university class, there were two young ladies' nicknames I could never get right. Their nicknames meant "little finger." When I pronounced it, however, it came out "penis." For three months, I could NOT hear the difference between the two pronunciations. And, for three months, calling role turned into a daily fiasco of guffaws and red faces.

The good news: Once you get here and immerse yourself in the culture as a full-time resident, you'll start getting "an ear" for the tones. It took me 18-24 months to start "hearing" it, and catching myself when I used the wrong tone.

By the way, now once in a while I pressure my Thai b/f to be quiet while I do the ordering in a restaurant. He squirms in agony, and we don't always get what I thought I ordered, but it's the better way. And, if we end up with a stewed frog instead of a fried fish, I can only blame myself.

If you're already starting with formal Thai study, including the alphabet, you'll be miles/kilometers ahead of myself. Good luck!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is your name Toptuan is mean "review"?

Well, I think may be Thai people have the same problems learning English,too. Don't you think so? Some say the best way to learn language are natural steps. First of all you will feel very bad trying to understand what Thai people say. Keep trying to listen to them (take 3-4 weeks if you good practicer you would hear "innotation" in Thai language) After you recognize the tone of speaking. You will have to learn easy words (mostly basic Thai words; sawadee khrup, sabai dee, mai pen rai, etc.). Listening, Speaking before you learn how to write Thai. Don't use short cut learning alphabet. Good luck!

[dukkha]

First of all, thanx and a tip of the hat to all of you in this forum and the other forums of ThaiVisa.Com who have contributed the past couple of years.  Your insights and observations have been a big help to me as I mull over whether or not to retire in Thailand.  But now it's time for me to move out of the shadows as one of those despised "lurkers" and become a poster.

My questions today are mainly for the older members of the forum but I welcome input, too, from  the younger regulars like "IJustWannaTeach" and "ChrisP" et al. 

I'm recently retired and in my mid-50's.  I have done the tourist thing to Thailand numerous times and am pretty familiar with Bangkok, Pattaya, and Koh Sumui.  I will be going to Thailand in October for several months.

Based on your replies in this and other ThaiVisa forums, I figure my monthly retirement is enough to allow me to retire in the LOS without having to work.  Nevertheless, I know that daily trips to the beach and even daily sex with a young Thai partner (rented or otherwise) is going to get old very fast.  Certainly the prospect of sitting on a bar stool with other fat, balding old farts swilling Singha for hours at a time is not only NOT appealing but actually kinda frightening.  And so, the first questions: How do you fill your days?  Do you feel the need to work as a means of filling the days?

Many of the Str8 farang in Thailand have Thai wives/girl friends who run the hurdles of renting homes, hooking-up utilities, finding decent medical care, dealing with Thai immigration/bank officials etc etc.  As gay men coming to Thailand, we normally come alone.  My next questions:  Have you been able to hook up with other farang willing to help you settle in and deal with the aforementioned issues?  Has loneliness been a major issue? Is there much mutual support coming from other gay farang where you live?

I appreciate any observations or experiences you care to share with the rest of us!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Took interest in your posting so here are a few words from my 5 years of living in LOS...I came here at 55, had retired early from a teaching career in Australia. Got a job teaching at a Buddhist University in Chiengmai for four years. They were most gracious and arranged Visa and Work Permit each year....during this time I tried to meet thai men with whom I could engage on levels somewhat higher than a mattress, but alas alack, was not to be...finally decided to settle in Hua Hin, the beach being my primary raison d'etre..did so 8 month ago...have met some decent gay farang men here and also at age almost 60 met my partner...well worth the 5 year wait I can assure you..so I will not be among the balding fat old farts on a bar stool which is reassuring for me...my health is poor and am happy to spend what time is left in the loving company of my dear partner and a handful of farang and thai friends..trust this gives you some cause for optimism and even joy...and yes I did meet Sam in a bar, and yes he is only 28, and yes he is not employed currently, and yes I am supporting him BUT, Oh My Buddha, this young man has been sent to me by a higher power I can assure you and to be the recipient of his love and affection at this late point in my life is far better than any medications I have been prescribed whilst living here in LOS...hope these few words enable you to reflect and ponder further on the next amazing step in your life........young man!!!!

[bob/nyc]

If your looking to fill some time, try volunteering to a cause that interest you. Not to sound corny, but when I finally move to Thailand in a few months (I hope), I plan on looking for opportunities to volunteer. I help run a soup kitchen in NYC and although they probably don't exist in LOS, there are other organizations that would be more than willing to accept your time.

[Steve2UK]

If your looking to fill some time, try volunteering to a cause that interest you.  Not to sound corny, but when I finally move to Thailand in a few months (I hope), I plan on looking for opportunities to volunteer. I help run a soup kitchen in NYC and although they probably don't exist in LOS, there are other organizations that would be more than willing to accept your time.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Be careful with this. Even voluntary i.e. unpaid work is construed as work in LOS - and therefore technically requires a work permit - which is not available to you if you're in LOS on a retirement visa.

For example, you might love to help out at a local school which can't afford to pay professional English language teachers and they would love to have you do it - but it's work. It can get you into trouble for violating the terms of your visa. Even tsunami volunteers got caught up in this. Very sad - but very true.

[bob/nyc]

Thanks Steve, didn't know that but should have figured there would be some rediculous rule that would keep people who would want to help out people in need. Very sad.........

[Rj 81]

This topic should win thread title of the year!

"Gay, Grey, And Retired In The LOS"

Brilliant

Rj