Coffee In Chiang Mai

[HowardB]

Hi everybody

I love drinking GOOD coffee and obviously taste buds vary from person to person, so one man's poison etc. I've tried various coffee shops to find that elusive GOOD cup of coffee but unfortunately it eludes me. No disrespect intended but most Asian countries just can't make coffee, whether it's the water or whatever. I hate to see the influx of Western fast food outlets but in the case of coffee, I welcome the likes of Starbucks etc for my coffee fix.

I'm sure there must be plenty of cafe's where i can sit and enjoy a cup of coffee. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction in Chiang Mai.

Thanks

Howard

[lingnoi1977]

Good coffee is indeed in the eyes of the drinker...

For the best espresso based coffee (Latte, Cappucino etc) go to Butter is Better, Changkhlan Road diagonally opposite Pantip Plaza. They use two different types of Thai coffee, both freshly roasted and 100% Arabica (verified). The barista knows what she is doing.

If you want fresh roasted beans there are scores of small operators claiming to have 100% Arabica. After trying some of them you will know what you like and will see a big variance in quality. If you go down this road you will pay about 300-450 baht per kg for ordinary stuff laced with Robusta; 550-700 for good quality AA beans and about 2000+ for imported, high acid generic blends.

No disrespect intended but most Asian countries just can't make coffee, whether it's the water or whatever.

Like any food, you can not make good produce. The great majority of beans grown, harvested, dried and roasted in Asia (particularly Thailand and Vietnam) are inferior in quality due to poor site specs., inferior quality beans, wrong climate, poor drying techniques and the list is exhaustive...

[Ulysses G.]

Good coffee is indeed in the eyes of the drinker...

For the best espresso based coffee (Latte, Cappucino etc) go to Butter is Better, Changkhlan Road diagonally opposite Pantip Plaza. They use two different types of Thai coffee, both freshly roasted and 100% Arabica (verified). The barista knows what she is doing.

Thanks for the insights lingnoi1977. I always enjoy your posts!

[StevieH]

doi chaang beats the pants off the nonsense that is starbucks. in fact so do any of the hill tribe coffees too.

[junglechef]

Hillkoff is my favorite, they sell retail and wholesale but have a few tables and serve on premise too. I also go to Starbucks because like

many Americans I like brewed coffee (but not the kind they serve at Immigration made in a espresso machine ). I make at home in a drip machine Hillkoff's "City Roast", they have told me they only will sell it in larger quanities (5 kg I think), but if you ask nicely they might sell you what you want as they did for me.

[ThaiWx]

doi chaang beats the pants off the nonsense that is starbucks. in fact so do any of the hill tribe coffees too.

[eek]

I'll probably get slammed for this, but i like 94 Coffee and Wawee Coffee.

Wawee serving size is much bigger than 94 though (hot coffee), but i prefer 94 for iced coffee (94 blitz ).

[amexpat]

I think most people who like plain coffee don't care much for Starbucks.

Starbucks is very popular with those who want something like a 3/8 decaf Cappuccino with just a whisper of cinnamon.

Though no connoisseur, I like beans from Perfect Blend on Chang Klan rd (google).

200 grams for 75 bt. Made at home with a french press.

[iSabai]

I received some great info from this thread: http://www.thaivisa....age__p__3347007

[xen]

The barista knows what she is doing.

I definitly think this is also an important incredient to the finding the perfect coffee - the barista's skill .

Or at least one that makes a coffee to your desired standard as it is also true that taste buds vary from person to person,

[Loaded]

I have never been, and never intend to go, to Starbucks. What it represents in today's world turns my stomach. I go to Thai-owned places preferably selling Thai-grown coffee. Mosaic opposite the British Council has a nice atmosphere, great coffee but cheap prices.

Edited December 30, 2010 by Loaded

[gotlost]

Simply the best and Thai owned.

[Thailand]

Simply the best and Thai owned.

I agree.

Love their Cappuccino, but quality does depend on which of the young ladies makes it at the Airport Plaza outlet.

[HenMeeMai]

I received some great info from this thread: http://www.thaivisa....age__p__3347007

Duang Dee gets a lot of recommendations in that thread. I have been buying that, pre-ground, from the guesthouse mentioned for some time now. It's not the world's greatest coffee but it is very nice, and certainly, imho, the nicest of the local coffees that I tried. I personally wasn't impressed with the Hilkoff French blend, but I only bought it the once and I guess it could have been a bad batch?

What else should I be trying?

BTW (and I know I am going to get slated for this) I have twice bought Moccona "Blue Mountain" pre-ground from BigC (about 80 Baht, obviously not true Blue mountain!). The first packet was surprisingly nice; I was very impressed. The second pack I bought, however, was stale and disgusting and got thrown in the bin! Oh well... Anyone had better experiences with this?

[Billfo]

While I don't claim to be a coffee connoisseur, I like to think I know a good cup of coffee when I drink one. When someone said that Asian countries don't know how to make a good cup of coffee, I must totally disagree. Have you ever tried a cup of coffee in the UK? On the whole the coffee in the UK is awful, ask for a latte and you get a cup of vaguely coffee flavoured hot milk.

The best coffee I believe I've had the pleasure of drinking is a New Zealand Flat White. They know how to make a cup. And I must say the latte made in this neck of the woods is almost a flat white. Also the coffee in Thailand is, on the whole, strong and flavourful.

When I'm out, I like to go for Wawee coffee or a small independent coffee shop serving hill tribe coffee, always a good strong latte. Whereas I find starbucks to be a bit too mild but not terrible. At home I drink Hilkoff Italian roast made with a french press or I drink Illy coffee kindly bought over by friends or family, it's way too expensive in Rimping to buy here. I'd love a coffee machine but a good one is too bloody expensive!

Edited December 31, 2010 by Billfo

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I personally wasn't impressed with the Hilkoff French blend, but I only bought it the once and I guess it could have been a bad batch?

I'm not impressed with their French roast either, which is just WAY too dark and oily for me. Italian is already better, but I currenlty buy the even lighter City roast. (They sell those in any quantity, can buy either ground to specification or whole beans. They sell as small as 250 grams.)

I don't typically go to coffee shops in town as very few do a better job than I do at home. And those tend to be very pricey.

[jdinasia]

I have never been, and never intend to go, to Starbucks. What it represents in today's world turns my stomach. I go to Thai-owned places preferably selling Thai-grown coffee. Mosaic opposite the British Council has a nice atmosphere, great coffee but cheap prices.

What exactly do you think it represents? (Starbucks)

[LivinLOS]

I drink Illy coffee kindly bought over by friends or family, it's way too expensive in Rimping to buy here. I'd love a coffee machine but a good one is too bloody expensive!

The illy / Lavazza isnt so bad here.. Its bloody pricy back in the west too.. Lavazza gold was running about 1600b for 2kg of beans and thats bearable.. I like to mix that up with samples but its a reliable known quality.

Boncafe have (had ??) a special on with a saeco bean to cup automat for 26k, yes pricy but makes a dam_n fine cup and my last euro bean to cup, which died after 10 years very solid service was over 1000 euro back then, so see the saeco as expensive but necessary, just have to look at it as the pleasure produced over the lifetime of the machine. French press can do in a pinch but it just doesnt get that bite / crema that pressurized coffee processes do.

[Billfo]

I drink Illy coffee kindly bought over by friends or family, it's way too expensive in Rimping to buy here. I'd love a coffee machine but a good one is too bloody expensive!

The illy / Lavazza isnt so bad here.. Its bloody pricy back in the west too.. Lavazza gold was running about 1600b for 2kg of beans and thats bearable.. I like to mix that up with samples but its a reliable known quality.

Boncafe have (had ??) a special on with a saeco bean to cup automat for 26k, yes pricy but makes a dam_n fine cup and my last euro bean to cup, which died after 10 years very solid service was over 1000 euro back then, so see the saeco as expensive but necessary, just have to look at it as the pleasure produced over the lifetime of the machine. French press can do in a pinch but it just doesnt get that bite / crema that pressurized coffee processes do.

Thanks for that Livinlos, I'll have a look at that machine, I'm sure they're very durable too so probably worth the expenditure. Something to consider anyway. Thanks again!

[Billfo]

I don't typically go to coffee shops in town as very few do a better job than I do at home. And those tend to be very pricey.

I agree the likes of starbucks and wawee are a bit on the pricey side, although the nice independent coffee shops are considerably cheaper and the coffee still surprisingly good, granted it requires a bit of trial and error but if you find a nice small coffee shop serving good coffee for about 35 baht, I think that's very reasonable. Plus I guess it depends if you enjoy going to a coffee shop. I enjoy having a coffee and reading my book, I'm prepared to pay a bit extra at wawee near where I live because it's good coffee and nice to sit and read.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I have never been, and never intend to go, to Starbucks. What it represents in today's world turns my stomach. I go to Thai-owned places preferably selling Thai-grown coffee. Mosaic opposite the British Council has a nice atmosphere, great coffee but cheap prices.

What exactly do you think it represents? (Starbucks)

Don't want to speak for Loaded, but to me it represents:

* Selling an 'experience' more than a product.

* Flying beans and other products around the world instead of using local products.

* Sky high prices, and then even managing to want to charge for Internet usage.

* Globalisation. Not saying this is bad, mind, but you did ask what it represents and it represents globalisation. I like many aspects of globalisation. But I also understand people who would prefer to see something 'Chiang Mai' when looking around Thapae Gate, instead of McDonalds and Starbucks. Those people long for the days when they saw local places like Daret guesthouse, the gate itself, the Montri hotel, empty air where currently the Amora hotel stands, and Spotlight, of course.

Edited December 31, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[jayjay0]

I have never been, and never intend to go, to Starbucks. What it represents in today's world turns my stomach. I go to Thai-owned places preferably selling Thai-grown coffee. Mosaic opposite the British Council has a nice atmosphere, great coffee but cheap prices.

Well I have to agree with you on what it represents. But then again most any big corporation does.

What gets me is they charge about the same price here as back home pay a third of the wages and a third of the rent. And to top it all off they don't have the same selection.

For my self quality is not the whole issue. The surroundings can play a large part. For instance Starbucks in the Night Bazaar is not a event to me. But Starbucks on the second of third floor at Thai Pha Gate is a experience.

Are you complaining about the cost?

Edited December 31, 2010 by jayjay0

[CMX]

I don't know enough about coffee to make an argument about beans and any of the important aspects before it hits the cup. And I certainly understand the inefficiencies in transporting globally instead of using local products. Nor am I fond of a coffee bean being immersed in a flavor before being converted into jelly-mocha-lemon-watermelon-cream coffee - sugar optional - or a statement of financial status.

However, so far I have not found a Thai coffee that is so good as Starbuck's French Roast (for me). I mill grind the freshest local stuff I can get, but it is not there.

Also, the S'bucks standard (within types) seems to me to be rock solid. If you like x, it doesn't taste like y the next month. On the other hand, their spinach quiche here costs far too much. Don't ask me how I know.

[T_Dog]

If you want to get off the beaten path:

Mong Pearle - Huay Gaew Road (Best hot latte and hamburger in CM)

Mo'C Mo'L - Huay Gaew Road (A bit upscale but good.)

Wan Wann - Suthep Road/CMU (Good eats too.)

Groon - Soi Wat Umong/CMU (Engineering hang out that was better when the design mags were there.)

Kata - Soi Wat Umong (Spaghetti too.)

Luang Prabong - Wat Pong Noi (Small but very friendly.)

EBerry - Back sois of Nimenhemin. (Popular with trendy visitors from BKK.)

In Chiang Mai, there must 50 ways to get your coffee......

[iSabai]

I don't know enough about coffee to make an argument about beans and any of the important aspects before it hits the cup. And I certainly understand the inefficiencies in transporting globally instead of using local products. Nor am I fond of a coffee bean being immersed in a flavor before being converted into jelly-mocha-lemon-watermelon-cream coffee - sugar optional - or a statement of financial status.

However, so far I have not found a Thai coffee that is so good as Starbuck's French Roast (for me). I mill grind the freshest local stuff I can get, but it is not there.

Also, the S'bucks standard (within types) seems to me to be rock solid. If you like x, it doesn't taste like y the next month. On the other hand, their spinach quiche here costs far too much. Don't ask me how I know.

Starbucks always seems to get the bad rap, much of it deserved and most of it self-inflicted. But truth is that they do sell some decent coffees. The french roast is quite good in my opinion also. I also like their Guatemalan, Sumatra, and Ethiopian coffees. The Anniversary Blend (not sure of availability here) was quite good as well. But for the price they sell them at, I'd much rather drink a good Thai coffee which is far less than half the cost. And yes, the Starbucks coffees here are literally double what you'd pay for the same bag in the States. (Actually you'll get double the size bag for the same price.)

I don't like their sanctimonious politically correct <deleted>, like the fact that you can't smoke a ciggie, even outside their places. ONce I've paid for my (overpriced!) coffee, if I want to have a ciggie with it, that's my business!

[lingnoi1977]

I received some great info from this thread: http://www.thaivisa....age__p__3347007

Duang Dee gets a lot of recommendations in that thread. I have been buying that, pre-ground, from the guesthouse mentioned for some time now. It's not the world's greatest coffee but it is very nice, and certainly, imho, the nicest of the local coffees that I tried. I personally wasn't impressed with the Hilkoff French blend, but I only bought it the once and I guess it could have been a bad batch?

What else should I be trying?

BTW (and I know I am going to get slated for this) I have twice bought Moccona "Blue Mountain" pre-ground from BigC (about 80 Baht, obviously not true Blue mountain!). The first packet was surprisingly nice; I was very impressed. The second pack I bought, however, was stale and disgusting and got thrown in the bin! Oh well... Anyone had better experiences with this?

Two recommendations:

1. Phuket Coffee Lab - based in Phuket but uses 100% Thai Arabica beans from Doi Chaang and Doi Mae Salong regions (far north). They will roast fresh to your requirements and deliver wihin 3 days. Excellent quality beans and good roasting techiniques.

2. A local brand Coffee - similar source as above but based in Chiangmai. Can't say the name, as I am associated with them.

Both around 700 per kilo and IMO well worth the extra baht when you know what is in them.

PM me for details if you need it.

[outofoz]

'Starbucks' and 'Good Coffee'... A combination of words that should never go together!

[lingnoi1977]

'Starbucks' and 'Good Coffee'... A combination of words that should never go together!

Generally agreed. Starbucks is a beverage supplier which happens to be in the coffee market. I guess the closest analogy I can think of is McD's.

However, the Starbucks of Thailand and the Starbucks of Australia are two different things. You would not be caught drinking Starbucks in Melbourne, Adelaide or Sydney when you have so much good coffee to choose from (my pick is Campos) but in Thailand at least they use a generic blend that is palatable if one is desperate. Better than local places that do not know how to absorb their inferior beans into a palatable blend IMO.

A number of times I have been caught in the middle of BKK without any chance of a good coffee within the next 1/2 hour or so. Starbucks is acceptable if you tell the "barista" how you want the coffee - i.e. 2 shots of espresso latte with no foam will give you the closest thing to a "flat white". Just ask them not to boil the milk within an inch of its life...

Edited December 31, 2010 by lingnoi1977

[outofoz]

'Starbucks' and 'Good Coffee'... A combination of words that should never go together!

Generally agreed. Starbucks is a beverage supplier which happens to be in the coffee market. I guess the closest analogy I can think of is McD's.

However, the Starbucks of Thailand and the Starbucks of Australia are two different things. You would not be caught drinking Starbucks in Melbourne, Adelaide or Sydney when you have so much good coffee to choose from (my pick is Campos) but in Thailand at least they use a generic blend that is palatable if one is desperate. Better than local places that do not know how to absorb their inferior beans into a palatable blend IMO.

A number of times I have been caught in the middle of BKK without any chance of a good coffee within the next 1/2 hour or so. Starbucks is acceptable if you tell the "barista" how you want the coffee - i.e. 2 shots of espresso latte with no foam will give you the closest thing to a "flat white". Just ask them not to boil the milk within an inch of its life...

You do have a good point on drinking the least worst of what is availaible...Campos is a wonderful coffee and also one of my favourites...

I did have a latte (or cap) but I did want the flat white!at Siam Paragon Starbucks for the 'desperate' reason you mentioned... It was fairly awful though....i will take your suggestion next time and ask for it the flat white way... i was also alarmed to see a 'Gloria Jeans Coffee house' at Siam.. A close Australian relative to Starbucks

[wescue]

Try out 'coffee in the dark'. Served from a black van outside Suandok Temple in Suthep road. Every night from around 5 PM. Really good coffee and atmosphere. I think Bht45 for espresso.