Coffee In Chiang Mai

[LivinLOS]

I drink Illy coffee kindly bought over by friends or family, it's way too expensive in Rimping to buy here. I'd love a coffee machine but a good one is too bloody expensive!

The illy / Lavazza isnt so bad here.. Its bloody pricy back in the west too.. Lavazza gold was running about 1600b for 2kg of beans and thats bearable.. I like to mix that up with samples but its a reliable known quality.

Boncafe have (had ??) a special on with a saeco bean to cup automat for 26k, yes pricy but makes a dam_n fine cup and my last euro bean to cup, which died after 10 years very solid service was over 1000 euro back then, so see the saeco as expensive but necessary, just have to look at it as the pleasure produced over the lifetime of the machine. French press can do in a pinch but it just doesnt get that bite / crema that pressurized coffee processes do.

Thanks for that Livinlos, I'll have a look at that machine, I'm sure they're very durable too so probably worth the expenditure. Something to consider anyway. Thanks again!

Seaco are a large well known brand and one of the points that got me to go that way was being sold here in Thailand means there is support and parts etc should something go wrong in a few years its likely to be possible to repair.

[lingnoi1977]

'Starbucks' and 'Good Coffee'... A combination of words that should never go together!

Generally agreed. Starbucks is a beverage supplier which happens to be in the coffee market. I guess the closest analogy I can think of is McD's.

However, the Starbucks of Thailand and the Starbucks of Australia are two different things. You would not be caught drinking Starbucks in Melbourne, Adelaide or Sydney when you have so much good coffee to choose from (my pick is Campos) but in Thailand at least they use a generic blend that is palatable if one is desperate. Better than local places that do not know how to absorb their inferior beans into a palatable blend IMO.

A number of times I have been caught in the middle of BKK without any chance of a good coffee within the next 1/2 hour or so. Starbucks is acceptable if you tell the "barista" how you want the coffee - i.e. 2 shots of espresso latte with no foam will give you the closest thing to a "flat white". Just ask them not to boil the milk within an inch of its life...

You do have a good point on drinking the least worst of what is availaible...Campos is a wonderful coffee and also one of my favourites...

I did have a latte (or cap) but I did want the flat white!at Siam Paragon Starbucks for the 'desperate' reason you mentioned... It was fairly awful though....i will take your suggestion next time and ask for it the flat white way... i was also alarmed to see a 'Gloria Jeans Coffee house' at Siam.. A close Australian relative to Starbucks

lol

you can add Black Canyon to that list.

In Chiangmai you would probably not like BonCafe, Hillkoff and the likes.

When in BKK, go to PNF located on the main road between Phaya Thai and Victory Monument BTS stations.

Heading from VM station to PT station, it's about half way on the left hand side Phayathai Road.

Just found the address: 31/16-19 room101-2, 1st floor,Phayathai building, Phayathai road. Tel. +66 2245 7999

www.pnfcoffee.com

Ask for the smaller or the two cups - their standard is larger than we are used to and dilutes the coffee.

[nikster]

'Starbucks' and 'Good Coffee'... A combination of words that should never go together!

Generally agreed. Starbucks is a beverage supplier which happens to be in the coffee market. I guess the closest analogy I can think of is McD's.

However, the Starbucks of Thailand and the Starbucks of Australia are two different things. You would not be caught drinking Starbucks in Melbourne, Adelaide or Sydney when you have so much good coffee to choose from (my pick is Campos) but in Thailand at least they use a generic blend that is palatable if one is desperate. Better than local places that do not know how to absorb their inferior beans into a palatable blend IMO.

A number of times I have been caught in the middle of BKK without any chance of a good coffee within the next 1/2 hour or so. Starbucks is acceptable if you tell the "barista" how you want the coffee - i.e. 2 shots of espresso latte with no foam will give you the closest thing to a "flat white". Just ask them not to boil the milk within an inch of its life...

You do have a good point on drinking the least worst of what is availaible...Campos is a wonderful coffee and also one of my favourites...

I did have a latte (or cap) but I did want the flat white!at Siam Paragon Starbucks for the 'desperate' reason you mentioned... It was fairly awful though....i will take your suggestion next time and ask for it the flat white way... i was also alarmed to see a 'Gloria Jeans Coffee house' at Siam.. A close Australian relative to Starbucks

lol

you can add Black Canyon to that list.

In Chiangmai you would probably not like BonCafe, Hillkoff and the likes.

When in BKK, go to PNF located on the main road between Phaya Thai and Victory Monument BTS stations.

Heading from VM station to PT station, it's about half way on the left hand side Phayathai Road.

Just found the address: 31/16-19 room101-2, 1st floor,Phayathai building, Phayathai road. Tel. +66 2245 7999

www.pnfcoffee.com

Ask for the smaller or the two cups - their standard is larger than we are used to and dilutes the coffee.

You can also find P&F in Chiang Mai. It's the only one I know of that is obviously far above and beyond Starbucks.

The rest - they're OK, just like S'buck's is OK. Wawee, Doi Chang, Doi Tung, yeah fine, whatever. I can drink their coffee.

[shepsel]

In the past I used to go from coffee house to coffee house searching for a decent cup of coffee. Some places are almost passable, but I found that there has been a bitter aftertaste from the supplier roasting the beans at too high of a temperature therefore burning the beans.

I brought a supply of coffee from me when I came here from N.A. but eventually ran out, and I had no one coming to here to replenish my supply. There was an interesting advertisement almost a year ago from a grower in Chiang Rai that interested me. I contacted them, and they sent over some samples of their different blends. I thoroughly enjoyed what I tasted an have been ordering coffee from them since. Their name is Redcliff Coffee, and they do deliver free of charge in the Chiang Mai area. Their prices are competitive, but most important, their coffee is superb. Now I can fill up in the morning at home without a need for a "fix" during the day.

[HowardB]

I didnt realise this would stir up such interest and I appreciate everyone's contribution. I'm not in Thailand now but when I return i can see ive got a few places and products to seek out.

Thanks all

Howard

[Peppy]

BTW (and I know I am going to get slated for this) I have twice bought Moccona "Blue Mountain" pre-ground from BigC (about 80 Baht, obviously not true Blue mountain!). The first packet was surprisingly nice; I was very impressed. The second pack I bought, however, was stale and disgusting and got thrown in the bin! Oh well... Anyone had better experiences with this?

We've been drinking this at home for about five years now. Good stuff (always tastes the same from package to package as far as I can tell) and the price is right!

[Ulysses G.]

In the past I used to go from coffee house to coffee house searching for a decent cup of coffee.

I like coffee, but don't love it.

Instant usually tastes artificial to me and some fresh ground coffees taste better than others, but not to any amazing degree. I have had some of the most highly praised coffee on the thread and it tastes pretty ordinary to me.

In fact, I would prefer to drink good hot cocoa if it were not for the welcome effects of caffeine. I am not sure whether I am cursed or blessed after seeing how enthusiastic other people get about fresh coffee.

[outofoz]

lol

you can add Black Canyon to that list.

In Chiangmai you would probably not like BonCafe, Hillkoff and the likes.

When in BKK, go to PNF located on the main road between Phaya Thai and Victory Monument BTS stations.

Heading from VM station to PT station, it's about half way on the left hand side Phayathai Road.

Just found the address: 31/16-19 room101-2, 1st floor,Phayathai building, Phayathai road. Tel. +66 2245 7999

www.pnfcoffee.com

Ask for the smaller or the two cups - their standard is larger than we are used to and dilutes the coffee.

Thanks for that, I'll try it in Feb when im back in bkk... I know this is a thread about coffee in Chiang Mai...but one last one in bkk..when you exit ratchathewi BTS ticket barriers heading to pantip plaza...there is a coffee cart vendor just beofre you take the escalator down...one of the best coffee I had in bkk...!

[Thailand]

I didnt realise this would stir up such interest and I appreciate everyone's contribution. I'm not in Thailand now but when I return i can see ive got a few places and products to seek out.

Thanks all

Howard

These sort of threads are the food and drink of TV members.

[CMX]

Starbucks is a beverage supplier which happens to be in the coffee market. I guess the closest analogy I can think of is McD's."

I feel that the above statement is too harsh and unfair. Whoever wrote it is obviously not a habitue of KFC or Burger King. Moreover, the same contributor puts additives in with the coffee - in his case micro-frothed milk. How Hi-So is that? - and how confusing - milks vary tremendously, particularly here in Thailand!

However, Starbucks we'll all agree takes too much money for their products.

But to a pointed question: Can one purchase a good coffee directly in Chiang Dao????

[Okertes]

From my rather short experience in CM there are basically 3 kind of Coffee/Cappuccino ( in coffee shops )

1 - Local style - coffee from the mountains like Doi Chang , Wawee etc. strong rough but for my taste very good.

2 - Italian style - Italian blends you can find in Friendly Coffee Shop at Rimping on the river and Rimping near the Airport

Plaza they make the Cappuccino the same as you would drink in Italy .

3 - Bad coffee ( to my taste ) - like Sturback and some local Franchises .

In the Makro Han Dong they have a Coffee corner that serve great Cappuccino some combination of 1 and 2

I think that Coffee drinking culture is getting much better in Thailand .

[xen]

'Starbucks' and 'Good Coffee'... A combination of words that should never go together!

Generally agreed. Starbucks is a beverage supplier which happens to be in the coffee market. I guess the closest analogy I can think of is McD's.

However, the Starbucks of Thailand and the Starbucks of Australia are two different things. You would not be caught drinking Starbucks in Melbourne, Adelaide or Sydney when you have so much good coffee to choose from (my pick is Campos) but in Thailand at least they use a generic blend that is palatable if one is desperate. Better than local places that do not know how to absorb their inferior beans into a palatable blend IMO.

A number of times I have been caught in the middle of BKK without any chance of a good coffee within the next 1/2 hour or so. Starbucks is acceptable if you tell the "barista" how you want the coffee - i.e. 2 shots of espresso latte with no foam will give you the closest thing to a "flat white". Just ask them not to boil the milk within an inch of its life...

You do have a good point on drinking the least worst of what is availaible...Campos is a wonderful coffee and also one of my favourites...

I did have a latte (or cap) but I did want the flat white!at Siam Paragon Starbucks for the 'desperate' reason you mentioned... It was fairly awful though....i will take your suggestion next time and ask for it the flat white way... i was also alarmed to see a 'Gloria Jeans Coffee house' at Siam.. A close Australian relative to Starbucks

That is not good news that Gloria Jeans is expanding to LOS. Apart from their links to Evangelistic Christian Organizations which is always a personal choice whether u support them on that basis , but they have the worst coffee ever.

Al tho i did have an undrinkable coffee in S&P in Airport Plaza a few months ago - more coffee flavored sugar than a beverage.A[apparently one needs to advise when ordering that one does not require sugar.

[jdinasia]

I have never been, and never intend to go, to Starbucks. What it represents in today's world turns my stomach. I go to Thai-owned places preferably selling Thai-grown coffee. Mosaic opposite the British Council has a nice atmosphere, great coffee but cheap prices.

What exactly do you think it represents? (Starbucks)

Don't want to speak for Loaded, but to me it represents:

* Selling an 'experience' more than a product.

* Flying beans and other products around the world instead of using local products.

* Sky high prices, and then even managing to want to charge for Internet usage.

* Globalisation. Not saying this is bad, mind, but you did ask what it represents and it represents globalisation. I like many aspects of globalisation. But I also understand people who would prefer to see something 'Chiang Mai' when looking around Thapae Gate, instead of McDonalds and Starbucks. Those people long for the days when they saw local places like Daret guesthouse, the gate itself, the Montri hotel, empty air where currently the Amora hotel stands, and Spotlight, of course.

Hmmm for me Starbucks sells far more than "an experience" (and is far more than just a "beverage company") Granted it isn't my fave coffee! They tend to over-roast imho. Now ---

Flying beans from around the world is a big PLUS in my book. Different coffees and different roasts are what makes good coffee "good".

Prices are crazy for Thailand (but not that much higher than other major 'branded' coffees.)

Globalisation? Hmmmm wasn't Starbucks one of the very first coffee companies to practice "fair-trade"? It makes for another huge plus for me to know that coffee growers are getting more than subsistence wages for their work. The rest of your complaints certainly will fall on deaf ears when it comes to a city growing and prospering. If you want the Chiang Mai of 20+ years ago you'll have to pick another city .. and if it grows you'll have to deal with it I used to hate the concept of 7-11's being in Thailand, until I realized that they are a fairly "equal opportunity" employer, while the mom & pops hire family members and don't stay within the law when it comes to wages and hours etc.

So, to me (and probably only me!) Starbucks is just another chain. They offer a product that is similar/same all over the world. You know what you are getting when you go there (including the fact that you are paying too much.)

[mild7even]

Respectfully disagree about Asian countries not doing coffee well. I speak only for Japan and Thailand, though. Japanese take most things seriously and coffee is no exception--have had some great cups there.

But as for Thailand... the scene is much better than in the mid- to late-90's. It used to be difficult to find a "fresh coffee", no matter the place. If you asked for coffee, you would get a cup of instant. You had to ask for "cafae sot" or fresh coffee to get fresh brewed. Now I think it is the other way around--ask for coffee, and generally you will get fresh brewed.

There are plenty of good cups here in Chiang Mai. As someone else mentioned, Perfect Blend is outstanding--I think they use good quality water, as well as beans and technique. And cheap, as well. Hopf (across from Irish Pub) I think also uses good water, not sure what kind of beans, but always get a good cup there. On the cheaper side as well. Both of these places have free WiFi too.

Yes, Starbucks can make a fine cup, if you know how to order.

Libernard is well known for coffee (look at a recent thread on overcharging); yes, their coffee is really good, though I wouldn't say the best in Thailand. The food items are good (green curry among the best), but it does take a long, long time to get your food.

Wawee makes a fine cup.

I always order an americano--it ensures the coffee was just brewed, and not sitting around.

[islandguy]

This is one of my favorite topics and one have I enjoyed learning about for 35 years. So as not to bore you too much, let me start with the most important info;

Freshness

Coffee goes bad (oxidation and rancidity of the oils) easily. Grinding your own beans daily, freshly roasted if possible, makes a big difference. Storing the beans in an air tight container kept out of the sun helps a lot also. Not opening sealed bags will preserve them longer if you buy more than a few weeks supply at a time.

Beans

Quality is determined by variety, picking when ripe (unripe cherries are not as good), and processing. While variety usually means Arabica instead of Robusta there are good Robustas and also some other older varieties grown mostly in Vietnam and the Philippines that are good and taste different. I now buy Chiang Mai beans that are good enough to wean me from hand carried imports and occasional Starbucks purchases. The King's projects and the burgeoning coffee culture in Thailand have made a big difference over the years. There is no one best kind, coffee is like bread, good quality of one kind may not be your favorite (low acid versus high acid, full bodied or light, etc.). Find a kind that suits your taste.

Roasting

You can't make bad beans good but you can ruin good beans with bad roasting. The person roasting is key to final quality and a good roaster is usually the most fanatic about quality. People like that have consistent products because they don't sell bad batches. Different beans taste better with the best roast for those beans, different people like different roasts, and different methods of making the coffee are best done with different roasting times (espresso machines, drip, French Press).

Coffee drinks

The skill of the barrista does indeed make a difference.

Find out what suits your taste and keep it fresh! Enjoy.....

Edited January 2, 2011 by islandguy

[hutches]

Easily the best cup of coffee in Chiang Mai is at Chan Neung at the end of Soi 1. Consistently delicious, perfectly strong and flavorful. It also happens to be run by super friendly owners and is a really nice place to sit and enjoy your cup, a shady patio on a quiet soi.

If someone already suggested this, sorry! There were so many responses I didn't read them all.

[Asmerom]

Easily the best cup of coffee in Chiang Mai is at Chan Neung at the end of Soi 1. Consistently delicious, perfectly strong and flavorful. It also happens to be run by super friendly owners and is a really nice place to sit and enjoy your cup, a shady patio on a quiet soi.

If someone already suggested this, sorry! There were so many responses I didn't read them all.

You may not have had the time or the inclination to bother reading this whole thread in your brief period of TV membership but clearly you must have found the time to visit the thousand and one coffee outlets in Chiang Mai to enable you to state, in your third post , that Chan Neung, offers "easily the best cup of coffee in Chiang Mai" A shade presumptuous, a bit cheeky, don't you think?

Edited January 2, 2011 by Asmerom

[Ulysses G.]

I'm still wondering which "soi 1" he is taking about. There are hundreds of them in Chiang Mai.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I'm still wondering which "soi 1" he is taking about. There are hundreds of them in Chiang Mai.

Typically, and applying some profiling to the typical Thavisa member, my bet is on it being Moon Muang Soi 1 whenever a road name is absent.

Same with Bangkok Farongs who's lives center around Sukhumvit.. Or Pattayans leaving out 'Beach Road'..

[lingnoi1977]

Easily the best cup of coffee in Chiang Mai is at Chan Neung at the end of Soi 1. Consistently delicious, perfectly strong and flavorful. It also happens to be run by super friendly owners and is a really nice place to sit and enjoy your cup, a shady patio on a quiet soi.

If someone already suggested this, sorry! There were so many responses I didn't read them all.

I must try this one. By 'best', do you mean:

• best by location?
• best by price?
• best by drink - elaborate if you mean espresso, latte, cap, ristretto, machiato...?
• best beans?
• best roast?
• best barista?

The quiet soi part did sound good though...

[Igor]

I don't like their sanctimonious politically correct <deleted>, like the fact that you can't smoke a ciggie, even outside their places. ONce I've paid for my (overpriced!) coffee, if I want to have a ciggie with it, that's my business!

On the other hand, some of us find that to be about the only reason to go to Starbucks.

[LarryBird]

Rimping near the Airport Plaza and Kuhn Mohr's both have great coffee, and I believe their beans are from Doi Tung. (I'm not a coffee expert, but my euro friends really like Rimping's as well.)

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I noticed Makro are now selling a variety of Bon Cafe blends at quite low prices. (70-98 baht per 250 gram). Haven't tried it yet.

[amexpat]

skip it

Edited January 3, 2011 by amexpat

[butterisbetter]

Good coffee is indeed in the eyes of the drinker...

"For the best espresso based coffee (Latte, Cappucino etc) go to Butter is Better, Changkhlan Road diagonally opposite Pantip Plaza. They use two different types of Thai coffee, both freshly roasted and 100% Arabica (verified). The barista knows what she is doing."

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Our espresso, cappuccino, and any other espresso based drinks are made from Arabica Peaberry beans. On the wildly improbable chance that not everybody knows what a peaberry bean is and those who don't are boycotting Wikipedia (its entry about the Olsen twins is unadulterated libel), peaberry beans are beans that that don't grow paired with another. Most coffee beans grow as twins. Peaberry beans are singletons. Supposedly, they are more flavorful than ordinary beans. I write "supposedly" because I can't stand the taste of coffee. and it gives my wife the jitters. For that reason, we've probably overcompensated by buying these beans. All peaberry beans are expensive but these are expensive even for peaberry beans. We charge only 50 baht per cup of cappuccino. If we were a coffee shop we couldn't make a living doing that. But we hope the coffee will tempt people to try our cakes and pastries. And yes, our barista is a coffee zealot and perfectionist.

We also offer drip brewed coffee. We use Arabica for that as well but not peaberry beans. At any rate, our Arabica beans are very high quality too. They would taste good brewed in just about any serviceable coffee machine. But we have a secret weapon in that we use a Technivorm machine (otherwise known as Mokkamaster). It seems universally to be rated as the best drip brew machine in the world. At least I haven't found a review that says otherwise. So any coffee that is brewed in the Technivorm will taste better than if it were brewed in another machine. If you want to know why, you can look it up. But, please, not on Wikipedia. Grrrr...

It's also the world's ugliest coffee machine; so if you bring children to the store, shield their eyes.

Anyway, thanks for asking.

Edited January 4, 2011 by butterisbetter

[iSabai]

I noticed Makro are now selling a variety of Bon Cafe blends at quite low prices. (70-98 baht per 250 gram). Haven't tried it yet.

Bon Cafe has one variety that I've been buying of late. It is in an orange colored bag, orange and black actually, and is 100% Thai Arabica (shade grown I think it says). Quite tasty stuff, and down here in Phuket it's ฿175/250 gram bag. I've tried a few other BC varieties and I like this one best.

[iSabai]

I don't like their sanctimonious politically correct <deleted>, like the fact that you can't smoke a ciggie, even outside their places. ONce I've paid for my (overpriced!) coffee, if I want to have a ciggie with it, that's my business!

On the other hand, some of us find that to be about the only reason to go to Starbucks.

That reason being that you DO like their PC <deleted>? Or that you don't think I should be able to have a ciggie with my coffee?

[st11x]

Rimping near the Airport Plaza and Kuhn Mohr's both have great coffee, and I believe their beans are from Doi Tung. (I'm not a coffee expert, but my euro friends really like Rimping's as well.)

I'll second Rimping near the Airport Plaza (Nim City). It's known as Thom, which I think is the name of the owner. You will sometimes see him roasting the beans over there. Can't speak for the other employees, but himself and one of his employees (a plump guy) serves excellent coffee (at the right temperature too). That is what he can do, totally impressed.

[butterisbetter]

Rimping near the Airport Plaza and Kuhn Mohr's both have great coffee, and I believe their beans are from Doi Tung. (I'm not a coffee expert, but my euro friends really like Rimping's as well.)

I'll second Rimping near the Airport Plaza (Nim City). It's known as Thom, which I think is the name of the owner. You will sometimes see him roasting the beans over there. Can't speak for the other employees, but himself and one of his employees (a plump guy) serves excellent coffee (at the right temperature too). That is what he can do, totally impressed.

actually, the peaberry coffee Butter is Better uses for its espresso, cappuccino and latte comes from Thom. For what it's worth, our barista can do at least some of those decorations. Of course, when she trains our staff to make espresso etc. the first thing they want to learn, being Thais, is how to make the beautiful designs. How the stuff tastes is a secondary issue.,

[SadieMBeagle]

As a Seattle refugee (Oh! Uptown Espresso, how I miss thee :'-( ), I'm not really a fan of Starbucks, as I found their brew to be too bitter. Taste is certainly in the mouth of the drinker, as many have said (sorta).

Anyway, that has nothing to do with anything. Here in CM, I enjoy Duang Dee Hilltribe coffee, which I buy at Rimping for (I think) 85 baht per box. Not sure how big the box is. But I make it in a French press, and it's quite tasty indeed.