Pai Canadian Murder - The Dilatory Truth

[EyesWideOpen]

  According to a friend of mine who witnessed the shooting, Leo Del Pinto upon seeing the gun was slowly backing away, holding his hands part way up, and saying "no no no". This is pretty much what any one of us would do when faced with a gun and imminent death.......  

Any thoughts or analysis on what happened by Khun Porntip are useless, as she turned herself into a walking joke after her idiotic bomb scanner defense.Sort of a shame as she was highly respected before.

As it appears the police department ( monkeys in uniform) show no efforts to reform themselves, I suggest civil disobedience on a wide scale might do the trick, ie no more tea money from businesses, and blowing past check points....

I am still infuriated by the murder of the two tourists in Kanchanaburi. I would bet my left nut he walked out the back door of the prison 6 months after the deed. But even I do not have the balls to try to find out.....   :-) 

[wayfarer108]

The blog is correct. The bullet entereted his head and and lodged in his armpit. He was not handstanding at the time.

Don't take it from me that the skull is a high point on the body, that the cheek is part of the skull, and that the armpit is lower. Take a look.

PS: I hope my impatience is not showing. :-)

Let's try one more time. Where exactly did Dr. Pornthip state that the bullet entry was? Was it an area of the cranium or was it in fact through the areas proximate to the ramus or below the mastoid process? Did any teeth show injury?

Now, what did the Alberta medical examiner's report state was the probable entry point and journey of exit point? What did the Alberta report state in respect to the teeth?

And again I ask,

The Del pinto family was given a copy of the Alberta Medical Examiner's report. They said they would make the report available to the media and public. Didn't Mr. Fortune give you a copy as he had promised? Why are you so quiet on the Alberta medical examiner report?

All very simple questions that I am sure you can answer for a simple guy like me.

Unfortunately, I wasn't there when Dr. Pornthip gave her opinions based upon the autopsy performed by a third party and, I don't think she would be willing to discuss the case with me.

Thank you for your patience.

My patience may be slightly assuaged if you can confirm that you were totally wrong when you said Carly Reisig had not given evidence rather than pedalling your obsession with Dr. Pornthip

I don't see that geriatrickid is obsessed with Dr Pornthip. If Uthai's recent actions are relevant to his previous testimony, than so are Dr Pornthip's.

Instead of answering questions that might expose weaknesses in your reporting, you have tossed out an accusation encased in strawman argumentation. Seems more of a "dilatory" tactic (truth cannot be dilatory, only the presentation thereof), shall we say -- than logical argumentation.

Geriatrickid has simply been pointing out the selective nature of your arguments. Nowhere do I see that he is suggesting the policeman was innocent of wrongdoing.

The main question at hand is whether Del Pinto's death constituted murder, manslaughter or self defence. Arguments for murder and for self defence appear to be weak in both cases, whatever the bullet angle may have been. The policeman's judgement was obviously severely impaired and his actions inexcusable.

Testimony on all sides has appeared to be rather problematic to say the least. Along with several principals changing testimony more than once, I think it's safe to assume that tf the police were coaching witnesses, then it's equally possible the DSI was doing the same with its two 'independent' witnesses.

OJ Simpson may have been guilty, but unethical and improper investigational tactics assured that he went free.

[aussiejohn]

Pai and MHS are on a dark and lonely frontier where justice has an entirely different definition. It is a forgotten place...a riverbed of the drug trade... steeped in multicultural organized crime. Just a few miles away is one of the most dangerous and heavily armed guerilla armys in the world, dug in to protect the flow of drugs and weapons. The police in Pai and the thai army are resting happily in the Wa army's pocket. The level of danger on a daily basis is equal only to the level of its beauty and serenity. It is not the type of place one would want to enjoy the lifestyle of frolic and consumption. Unfortunately this is the fatal inconsistency of Pai. Most free living expats of Pai have no idea what is going on on a socioeconomic level in the villages around their eclectic yoga retreats. I lived in Pai for years and I consider it one of the most dangerous places I have ever seen. Pai is deceptively unpredictable and this is a warning. Dont dance with Pai.

[geriatrickid]

The blog is correct. The bullet entereted his head and and lodged in his armpit. He was not handstanding at the time.

Don't take it from me that the skull is a high point on the body, that the cheek is part of the skull, and that the armpit is lower. Take a look.

PS: I hope my impatience is not showing. :-)

Let's try one more time. Where exactly did Dr. Pornthip state that the bullet entry was? Was it an area of the cranium or was it in fact through the areas proximate to the ramus or below the mastoid process? Did any teeth show injury?

Now, what did the Alberta medical examiner's report state was the probable entry point and journey of exit point? What did the Alberta report state in respect to the teeth?

And again I ask,

The Del pinto family was given a copy of the Alberta Medical Examiner's report. They said they would make the report available to the media and public. Didn't Mr. Fortune give you a copy as he had promised? Why are you so quiet on the Alberta medical examiner report?

All very simple questions that I am sure you can answer for a simple guy like me.

Unfortunately, I wasn't there when Dr. Pornthip gave her opinions based upon the autopsy performed by a third party and, I don't think she would be willing to discuss the case with me.

Thank you for your patience.

My patience may be slightly assuaged if you can confirm that you were totally wrong when you said Carly Reisig had not given evidence rather than pedalling your obsession with Dr. Pornthip

Of course Carly Reisig gave evidence. She provided statements to the police. That is considered evidence. Although she gave a statement in a Thai court, this was not part of the trial. She was not cross examined by defense counsel in court was she?

In any case, that is completely unrelated to my repeated questions which you refuse to answer. Now either you can answer the questions posed (repeatedly) above or you cannot. If you cannot, just say you do not have the information and that you have not seen the Alberta medical examiner's report.

Edited January 5, 2011 by geriatrickid

[dannyman]

LOVE YOU LEO !

[Buchholz]

Ernie Del Pinto outside Our Lady of Grace church in Calgary Thursday, January 6, 2011. Del Pinto was attending the mass/memorial in honour of his son Leo, who was killed in Thailand three years ago.

Del Pinto family frustrated after Calgary murder trial delay reaches three years

Friends and family of a young man killed in Thailand three years ago gathered in his memory Thursday night, frustrated a trial in his shooting death has still not begun. "Today is a difficult day for us, for my wife, for my daughters," said Ernie Del Pinto. "We won't ever see closure because we'll never get our son back. But seeing this trial through might give us some." Leo Del Pinto, 25, was gunned down Jan. 6, 2008, outside a restaurant in the northern Thai village of Pai. A friend he'd been touring with, Carly Reisig, was also shot, but survived.

The accused, Thai police Sgt. Uthai Dechachiwat, had at one time said he was acting in self-defence in the confrontation. But he was later charged with first-degree murder in Del Pinto's death, and attempted murder in Reisig's shooting. After almost three years in a lengthy, embattled pretrial process, Thai officials have decided Dechachiwat will go to trial, but a date and location have not been set. Upon being charged, Dechachiwat was released from jail. But while free last September, Dechachiwat was charged in the murder of his 18-year-old wife, after she was clubbed to death with a piece of wood.

Ernie Del Pinto says that according to his lawyers, Dechachiwat has pleaded guilty to that charge and will be sentenced Jan. 17. "If he gets the death penalty, then maybe this is a victory for us and we can finally let go. But if he just gets 30 years or something, we will push this, forever if we have to, until we get justice. Then maybe we could even get a consecutive sentence, maybe another 30 years."

At the same time, Ernie Del Pinto worries if Dechachiwat is put in jail for the murder of his wife, the trial involving his son's shooting death will be put off even further, perhaps forgotten. Either way, mourning the death of Leo Del Pinto hasn't gotten any easier for his father, mother or twin sisters, now aged 28. "I miss Leo every day," said the father. "I miss his smile, the way he talked to me. When I look at him, I have to look at his face in a picture, on a wall. I have to talk to that, instead of him."

Read more: http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/Pinto+family+frustrated+after+Calgary+murder+trial+delay+reaches+three+years/4073601/story.html#ixzz1ARzD31dq

Calgary Herald - January 7, 2010

[TheLaughingMan]

I still don't understand the point of arguing over law and order when discussing htis case HERE in Thailand. it seems ludicrous to me to talk about what should happen or should have happened legally etc when we all know there is NO law here in this country where the crime took place, what is the point of even bringing it up?

[blabla1]

This is still the wild wild west, untamed,lawless and dangerous, there is no law, just uniformed whiskey drinkers, Wyatt Earp, where are you? what a waste of young life, the Canadians should slap a travel ban until this P... gets life, but yeah yeah yeah,such a shame.RIP

[Arkady]

I think the Thai media should start publishing an annual record of crimes committed or allegedly committed by Thai police officers. I would think their propensity for criminality would be seen as significantly higher than the rest of the population and that would be without taking into account crimes committed by police but not attributed to them and daily extortion by police all over the country.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Arkady

[siamiam]

Regarding accusations of inaccuracy sometimes leveled at news reports and their authors, it doesn't bother me when I see 'breaking news' stories that contain information which changes or is subsequently discredited in later news reports. I think that if news reporters were to wait for absolute confirmation of facts, statements, etc., before going to press, then their reports might often loose their timeliness. I always view a news report as being a 'developing' story.

Normally there are one or two post crime versions. In Thailand there can be many more

(1) The witness's first recollection

(2) The witnesses second recollection after speaking with other witnesses to the same incident

(3) What the witness tells the police

(4) What the police tell the witness to say

(5) What the police actually write down and the witness signs.

(6) What the witness tells the court on instructions from lawyer

(7) How he judge records the evdidence and what he says into his tape recorder (There is no such things as verbatim evidence in Thai courts)

According to a friend of mine who witnessed the shooting, Leo Del Pinto upon seeing the gun was slowly backing away, holding his hands part way up, and saying "no no no". This is pretty much what any one of us would do when faced with a gun and imminent death.......

URL to an article by Andrew Drummond that appeared in February 2008, followed by an excerpt from the article

http://www.nationmul...al_30064725.php

The witnesses, who identities were not revealed, told the DSI........They claimed del Pinto had his hands in the air and was yelling at the officer to "Stop! Stop!" They said Sgt Uthai was drunk.

Has the witness statement cited above been discredited? Did these witnesses change their story? If the answer to these two questions is no, then wouldn't these witness statements be of utmost importance? If the witness statements were discredited or changed, under what circumstances did this occur?

URL to an article appearing on the nationmultimedia website in February 2008, followed by an excerpt from the article

http://www.nationmul...d-30061360.html

Uthai initially fled but give himself up to Pai police not long afterwards.

I can understand why a Thai involved in a traffic collision might flee the scene, as is often reported, even if they were not guilty of being the cause of the collision; but why would an armed Thai police officer flee the scene of his shooting two people, if he felt justified in the shooting?

[Wallaby]

Because he was too drunk.

[andrewdrummond]

The blog is correct. The bullet entereted his head and and lodged in his armpit. He was not handstanding at the time.

Don't take it from me that the skull is a high point on the body, that the cheek is part of the skull, and that the armpit is lower. Take a look.

PS: I hope my impatience is not showing. :-)

Let's try one more time. Where exactly did Dr. Pornthip state that the bullet entry was? Was it an area of the cranium or was it in fact through the areas proximate to the ramus or below the mastoid process? Did any teeth show injury?

Now, what did the Alberta medical examiner's report state was the probable entry point and journey of exit point? What did the Alberta report state in respect to the teeth?

And again I ask,

The Del pinto family was given a copy of the Alberta Medical Examiner's report. They said they would make the report available to the media and public. Didn't Mr. Fortune give you a copy as he had promised? Why are you so quiet on the Alberta medical examiner report?

All very simple questions that I am sure you can answer for a simple guy like me.

Unfortunately, I wasn't there when Dr. Pornthip gave her opinions based upon the autopsy performed by a third party and, I don't think she would be willing to discuss the case with me.

Thank you for your patience.

Oh dear GK

I have not seen the Alberta Coroner's report nor am I interested.. However if it varied significantly from the Thai one I would have been informed by the family who are in touch on a regular basis. It is totally irrelevent because the Thais will go by their own reports. Pornthip is also slightly irrelevant, because the trial will take the evidence of the Thai pathologists who carried out the PM. Pornthip was only involved at the invitation of the Thai National Human Rights Commission because despite the GT200 fiasco, she is widely respected not only in Thailand but abroad. She merely endorsed the Chiang Mai doctors findings. As a barrack room lawyer you have also been playing around with murder/manslaughter etc seemingly ad nauseum.

Lets not waste any more time on this really. The family want this man punished for 'killing' their son. Quite clearly he did not go out at night thinking I have got to get me a couple of farangs. But at some stage he decided to waste Leo. del Pinto and it was not in self defence.

You have also suggested the the public should be prepared to hear some bad things about Leo del Pinto. Pray tell us GK.

Your endless carping on ths subject has a n'all fur coat and nae knickers' ring about it.

Edited January 15, 2011 by andrewdrummond

[jayjay0]

The blog is correct. The bullet entereted his head and and lodged in his armpit. He was not handstanding at the time.

Don't take it from me that the skull is a high point on the body, that the cheek is part of the skull, and that the armpit is lower. Take a look.

PS: I hope my impatience is not showing. :-)

Let's try one more time. Where exactly did Dr. Pornthip state that the bullet entry was? Was it an area of the cranium or was it in fact through the areas proximate to the ramus or below the mastoid process? Did any teeth show injury?

Now, what did the Alberta medical examiner's report state was the probable entry point and journey of exit point? What did the Alberta report state in respect to the teeth?

And again I ask,

The Del pinto family was given a copy of the Alberta Medical Examiner's report. They said they would make the report available to the media and public. Didn't Mr. Fortune give you a copy as he had promised? Why are you so quiet on the Alberta medical examiner report?

All very simple questions that I am sure you can answer for a simple guy like me.

Unfortunately, I wasn't there when Dr. Pornthip gave her opinions based upon the autopsy performed by a third party and, I don't think she would be willing to discuss the case with me.

Thank you for your patience.

Oh dear GK

I have not seen the Alberta Coroner's report nor am I interested.. However if it varied significantly from the Thai one I would have been informed by the family who are in touch on a regular basis. It is totally irrelevent because the Thais will go by their own reports. Pornthip is also slightly irrelevant, because the trial will take the evidence of the Thai pathologists who carried out the PM. Pornthip was only involved at the invitation of the Thai National Human Rights Commission because despite the GT200 fiasco, she is widely respected not only in Thailand but abroad. She merely endorsed the Chiang Mai doctors findings. As a barrack room lawyer you have also been playing around with murder/manslaughter etc seemingly ad nauseum.

Lets not waste any more time on this really. The family want this man punished for 'killing' their son. Quite clearly he did not go out at night thinking I have got to get me a couple of farangs. But at some stage he decided to waste Leo. del Pinto and it was not in self defence.

You have also suggested the the public should be prepared to hear some bad things about Leo del Pinto. Pray tell us GK.

Your endless carping on ths subject has a n'all fur coat and nae knickers' ring about it.

I have been wondering too why he is still going on about this case. All the evidence points to the Sargent killing him. The only evidence GK has offered is Pornthip screwed up a few years ago.

actually I would not have said any thing except you hit the Jack Pot when you said the family would have informed you. Good point.

All the family wants is Justice. Ehy do people try to stop it. Legal is not breaking the law. If it was legal to kill. It would be a unjust legal action and the family would still want justice.