Does The Sun Ever Pass Round To The North Here?

[wilko]

If directly on the equator, depending on the time of year the sun goes round either to the North or the South....does anyone know if Thailand ever experiences this????

[SiamOne]

If directly on the equator, depending on the time of year the sun goes round either to the North or the South....does anyone know if Thailand ever experiences this????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmm, I think you have a small problem!!

Thailand is well north of the equator, just south of the tropic of Cancer

so no way would you see the sun behave like that

[Sir Burr]

Hmmmm.....you were obviously playing hookey during geography lessons.

The tropics of Cancer and Capricorn marks the furthest latitudes north and south where the sun is directly overhead at midday. Because Thailand is "in the tropics" ie. between the tropics of Cancer and Capricorn, the sun will appear further to the north at midday during the northern hemisphere's summer solstice.

Edited August 25, 2005 by Sir Burr

[WhiteShiva]

If directly on the equator, depending on the time of year the sun goes round either to the North or the South....does anyone know if Thailand ever experiences this????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmm, I think you have a small problem!!

Thailand is well north of the equator, just south of the tropic of Cancer

so no way would you see the sun behave like that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well actually in the summer (northern hemisphere, the sun is actually passing slightly north of Thailand, i.e if you look at your shadow at noon, it will be poining south.

Isn't that the very definition of the tropic of Cancer - the northernmost point on the planet where the sun can appear right above your head?

[AmeriThai]

Thailand is located about 10 degrees north of the equator. If I'm not mistaken, I think there's a sign north of Bangkok. Although the Sun's position varies in position throughout the year, it doesn't seem as noticable as it does much farther north or south. The reason for this changing position is because the Earth wobbles on its axis as it rotates on its orbit around the sun.

In North America (for example) there's a big difference in the number of hours between day and night during the winter and summer. In Thailand, that difference isn't as extreme.

[Sir Burr]

If directly on the equator, depending on the time of year the sun goes round either to the North or the South....does anyone know if Thailand ever experiences this????

hmmm, I think you have a small problem!!

Thailand is well north of the equator, just south of the tropic of Cancer

so no way would you see the sun behave like that

Educated in Thailand?

[Jai Dee]

I've just answered your question wilko in this thread.

[wilko]

I've just answered your question wilko in this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, I understand the wobble but I wasn't sure if the tropics all had the sun directly over head or they had a 50% leeway, if you get my gist, but you stop short of anwering my question.

If the limit is 23degree 30 min and Pattaya is at 13 degrees, at Solstice the sun is 10 degrees in the north....

Ok, so if the sun is directly overhead at the extreme of the tropic of Cancer,it must go round to the north for a short period around this date 21st or 22nd June - on what days is it directly overhead?

There must be 2 days each year; one on the way north and one on the way south, on Summer Solstice the sun is at it's furthest point north.

I'm used to the sun being permanently in one direction (either North or South). Not true actually I spent quite some time in North Queensland, tropic of Capricorn.

Edited August 25, 2005 by wilko

[SiamOne]

If directly on the equator, depending on the time of year the sun goes round either to the North or the South....does anyone know if Thailand ever experiences this????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmm, I think you have a small problem!!

Thailand is well north of the equator, just south of the tropic of Cancer

so no way would you see the sun behave like that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Educated in Thailand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cheeky boy, I stand corrected!!

educated in Thailand true, but I wasn't listening a lot of the time, esp. when the sun was out and overhead somewhere

[wilko]

If directly on the equator, depending on the time of year the sun goes round either to the North or the South....does anyone know if Thailand ever experiences this????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hmmm, I think you have a small problem!!

Thailand is well north of the equator, just south of the tropic of Cancer

so no way would you see the sun behave like that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Educated in Thailand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

cheeky boy, I stand corrected!!

educated in Thailand true, but I wasn't listening a lot of the time, esp. when the sun was out and overhead somewhere

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

too much sun sneeking in from the North? - tilt your hat the other way perhaps

[Jai Dee]

I'm sure someone could work it out, but lets make a few mathematical assumptions...

1. The Tropic of Cancer lies at 23.5 degrees North, and represents the northernmost line on the Earth where the sun can be directly overhead.

2. The Tropic of Capricorn lies at 23.5 degrees South, and represents the southernmost line on the Earth where the sun can be directly overhead.

3. It takes 365 days for the Earth to rotate and tilt enough to define these limits between the respective solstices (summer and winter).

4. Therefore the Earth tilts about 1 degree every 7.77 days (365 days divided by 47 degrees).

5. Thus if Pattaya is about 13 degrees north of the equator, and the Tropic of Cancer lies at 23.5 degrees north, Pattaya should see the sun on the north face of it's buildings for about 81.6 days a year (10.5 degrees times 7.77 days).

Someone check my work please...

[AmeriThai]

I've just answered your question wilko in this thread.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, I understand the wobble but I wasn't sure if the tropics all had the sun directly over head or they had a 50% leeway, if you get my gist, but you stop short of anwering my question.

If the limit is 23degree 30 min and Pattaya is at 13 degrees, at Solstice the sun is 10 degrees in the north....

Ok, so if the sun is directly overhead at the extreme of the tropic of Cancer,it must go round to the north for a short period around this date 21st or 22nd June - on what days is it directly overhead?

There must be 2 days each year; one on the way north and one on the way south, on Summer Solstice the sun is at it's furthest point north.

I'm used to the sun being permanently in one direction (either North or South). Not true actually I spent quite some time in North Queensland, tropic of Capricorn.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The sun is never permanently in one direction anywhere. The Earth is slightly tilted and "wobbles" as it rotates around the sun. Think in terms of the poles. At one time of the year the pole is tilted toward the sun. At the opposite time of the year, it's tilted away from the sun. That's what give northern latitudes more distinct seasons.

In relation to the Equator, Thailand or anywhere else, if the poles move relative to the season, then so does the Equator, Thailand or anywhere else. It's just that it's not as distinct as it is farther north or farther south because Thailand is closer to the Equator. So, yes, the sun over Thailand shifts back and forth slightly in position during the year.

[Sir Burr]

Jai Dee,

I think that that is a good enough answer for the OP, but it only works for a perfect sphere. As you know, the earth is flattened at the poles, so, the forther north or south you go, the sun will be travelling in increasing degrees per day.

(I think).

Edited August 25, 2005 by Sir Burr

[Sir Burr]

Thinking about your answer a bit more Jai Dee. I think it will only work if the earth was a cube. So, even with a perfect sphere, each day the sun would move an increasing amount of degrees as it moves away from the equator.

I could be completely wrong. Any mathematicians here? My brain hurts!

[SiamOne]

Thinking about your answer a bit more Jai Dee. I think it will only work if the earth was a cube. So, even with a perfect sphere, each day the sun would move an increasing amount of degrees as it moves away from the equator.

I could be completely wrong. Any mathematicians here? My brain hurts!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yes, I think you are all right if the earth is flat

[Jai Dee]

Any mathematicians here? My brain hurts!

Me too!

[AmeriThai]

Jai Dee,

I think that that is a good enough answer for the OP, but it only works for a perfect sphere. As you know, the earth is flattened at the poles, so, the forther north or south you go, the sun will be travelling in increasing degrees per day.

(I think).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sir Burr,

I suppose one could regard the Earth being flatter at the poles, but it's more that the Earth bulges more at the Equator. The bulge is pretty slight but due to the rotation of the Earth on its own axis. You're right that the sun's position will increase or decrease in degrees per day the farther north or south you go. The reason why still depends on which pole is tilted toward the sun.

[Jai Dee]

So c'mon you lot... we've already established the OP's query about the sun shining on the north side at times here in LOS... now some bright spark's gotta tell us all for how long...

I've done my bit...

[AmeriThai]

So c'mon you lot... we've already established the OP's query about the sun shining on the north side at times here in LOS... now some bright spark's gotta tell us all for how long... 

I've done my bit... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

37 years. Then the sun's lightbulb will burn out. They just don't make things the way they use to.

[Thetyim]

Oh this is too easy. You don't need mathematics.

All you need is a bath.

Fill the bath and then pull the plug out.

If the sun is in the north the water will spin the other way

In exactly one year from now you will have the answer.

[Jai Dee]

Oh this is too easy.  You don't need mathematics.

All you need is a bath.

Fill the bath and then pull the plug out.

If the sun is in the north the water will spin the other way

In exactly one year from now you will have the answer.

Good one Thetyim!!!

[chownah]

First, the earth wobbling on its axis has nothing to do with it....it is the tilt of the earth that does it.

It depends where you are in Thailand (how far north or south) you are as to what day the sun will be directly overhead. For 20 degrees north latitude, which is about right for Chiangrai, the sun is directly overhead on May 20 and July 23.

If you want to learn how to calculate this kind of stuff it is a piece of cake if you are a mathematician and a night mare if you are not.

Edit: The exact instant that the sun would be exactly overhead could happen at night...I guess it takes a mathematics to make such an absurd statement but mathematically that is correct....sort of....so really on May 20 and Jul 23 at noon is really the time when the sun will be the closest to being directly overhead....it would actually be a tiny bit to the north or south...but a very very tiny bit....I hope this is not confusing too many people...but in mathematical matters I try to be as precise as possible.....and of course as usual I could have made a mistake in the calcs....but I'm pretty sure I'm correct here.

I can blab on for hours about this and probably will with the least bit of encouragement....beware....perhaps a good reason to just forget about visiting the north....its really better to stay around Bangkok or the beach...definitely not north.....definitely.....

Edited August 25, 2005 by chownah

[zugtech]

First, the earth wobbling on its axis has nothing to do with it....it is the tilt of the earth that does it.

It depends where you are in Thailand (how far north or south) you are as to what day the sun will be directly overhead.  For 20 degrees north latitude, which is about right for Chiangrai, the sun is directly overhead on May 20 and July 23.

If you want to learn how to calculate this kind of stuff it is a piece of cake if you are a mathematician and a night mare if you are not.

Edit: The exact instant that the sun would be exactly overhead could happen at night...I guess it takes a mathematics to make such an absurd statement but mathematically that is correct....sort of....so really on May 20 and Jul 23 at noon is really the time when the sun will be the closest to being directly overhead....it would actually be a tiny bit to the north or south...but a very very tiny bit....I hope this is not confusing too many people...but in mathematical matters I try to be as precise as possible.....and of course as usual I could have made a mistake in the calcs....but I'm pretty sure I'm correct here.

I can blab on for hours about this and probably will with the least bit of encouragement....beware....perhaps a good reason to just forget about visiting the north....its really better to stay around Bangkok or the beach...definitely not north.....definitely.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I should have studied more in Geography. Ok, now i have a question:

If Pattaya is in the Tropic of Cancer and the moon is out and it's not that hot, does that make my Singha cheaper?

[sadman]

yes, I think you are all right if the earth is flat  

You're not trying to say the earth is round, are you, you heretic?

[sadman]

Oh this is too easy.  You don't need mathematics.

All you need is a bath.

Fill the bath and then pull the plug out.

If the sun is in the north the water will spin the other way

In exactly one year from now you will have the answer.

Only works in the daytime. At night, the Coriolis reversal effect will skew the rseults. The only solution is to shower during the hours of darkness and bath in daylight.

[andyfletch]

yes, I think you are all right if the earth is flat  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're not trying to say the earth is round, are you, you heretic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nope its flat, and rides through space on the back of four giant chang, on the back of a celestial turtle ( With apologies in advance to Terry Pratchett) !!!!!!!!

[JuniorExPat]

If directly on the equator, depending on the time of year the sun goes round either to the North or the South....does anyone know if Thailand ever experiences this????

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The sun never shines up here in the north - much better to go south if you're looking for the sun - the south is the place to be, unquestionably.

JxP

[chownah]

Doesn't anyone want to see the equations? Sweet, sexy, luscious equations? I've got em...you want em...bargain prices....

If you make a plot of where the sun is in the sky all day long for every month of the year then you have made a "sun chart". Sun charts are used by architects to help decide how to orient buildings to maximize solar heating in cold climates and to minimize solar heating in hot climates. Sun charts also help in the design of buildings for such details as how big should roof overhangs be to give adequate shade in the hot months but to allow sunlight to enter windows for warmth in cold months...and...believe it or not in the north it gets chilly enough in the winter that a nice sunny window is heavenly on a cold morning. To make a sun chart for your location you only need to know your latitude...that's the number on the map that shows how far north or south you are. You might even find a web site that would make a sun chart for you if you input your latitude....but I've never found a site that would do it since I make them for myself whenever I need one.

I almost forgot, sun charts are also used to position solar panels for electrical generation or heating water.

[Sir Burr]

If you made a sun chart on the northern and southern hemisphere solstice days. wouldn't this give you the minimum/maximum range?

[AmeriThai]

First, the earth wobbling on its axis has nothing to do with it....it is the tilt of the earth that does it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it was me who used the word "wobble" but did so as an illustration to relate the tilt. However, theoretically, if a planet had a pole always facing at the sun, then there'd be no seasonal change and the sun would always be in the same position, even if it spun on its axis.

Is that even be possible? Well, yes. Although not a planet, the moon is in a fixed position that always faces the Earth as it rotates aroupnd the Earth. I think Mercury is the same way with one side always facing the sun although I may be wrong about that. Another odd example is Uranus with its poles aligned closely to its orbit with its equator located where the poles of most of the planets in our solar system would be. I'm not certain if its "north" pole is always facing the direction of its orbit around the sun though. However, those doesn't have anything to do with their polar tilt, but rather that they just don't spin on their own axis. And they aren't the reason for why the position of the sun varies on the Earth through each orbit.

I'm like you in that I could easily get into talking about this sort of stuff for hours on end as well.

You're right about the tilt though. We're both talking about the same thing, just different ways to describe the "movement" of the sun. Thanks for clarifying it better.

Cheers.