Viktor Bout Says Comparing Thai And US Jails Is Like Comparing A Zoo And A Mental Hospital

[reason1]

For about ten years I was a licensed weapons dealer and freelance. At one time I was authorized to sell all UK HMG military gear to SE Asia. What I experienced never gets to print. Western Govs do some very shady corrupt defence deals. On one occasion in the west a UK Def Att was bumped during me trying to fix a broken sale. HMG UK cheated me and offered me an alternative life experience hereafter; I was in a Top Sec slammer for a week for no reason just to bother me and show that they could. USA able to pull people from anywhere to stand their trials and interrogations bothers me a lot. Belgium historically has been no1 Europe weapons supplier; guess to where? Africa.

[anterian]

Much fuss about Bout, but he was actually a middleman, he did no make the weapons he sold, large companies and/or governments make them. He has become the global fall guy for every government peddling guns out of their factory back doors.

[rwhoov]

It is okay for the U.S. to furnish arms to rebel groups, aka freedom fighters, trying to overthrow anti-American governments. However, when people like Bout supply weapons to those unsympathetic to U.S. interests they are called gunrunners or illegal arms dealers. Unfortunately Bout wasn't selling arms to customers on the "approved buyers list"

For the most part I agree with you. However, the old saying "2 wrongs don't make a right" apply here. Bout has caused untold suffering and death for thousands because of his arms dealings. How much help he received by the Russian government isn't known... at this time. (Why else were the Russians so adamant about his extradition?) He is the scum of the earth, and I really don't care about his comparison of American and Thai jails, as long as he is one or the other.

[hardy1943]

The newspaper didn't offer a comparison to the typical over crowded filthy Russian prison. Too bad as it would have put it in perspective for the Russian reader, particularly the absence of health care in a Russian or Thai prison and the access extended in the U.S. federal system.

I respect Mr. Bout's vegetarianism but he is not being truthful in his statements. The U.S. Federal penitentiary system makes allowances for vegetarians because it satisfies the most number of religious and health requirements.

He is in solitary for his own protection. His attorneys can visit regularly as can his family if they so wish.

I like the subtle hint about his non co-operation. Feeling the heat methinks.

You are right.Also one will serve every day what ever the judgement. One gets 20 years they be in there 20 years no early releases.

[TheGhostWithin]

I have worked in jails in the states plus have had a family member incarcerated. State jails and prisons are no fun, but medium, low and minimum security federal "correctional institutions" in the states like where Bout is are entirely different. They call them. "Club Feds" They are more a campus than a prison. They have dinning halls, TV room for each race, libraries, computer centers, sports programs, fitness centers, music centers, pool tables, minimarts, (expect Bout to gain his weight back), community colleges and other education programs. The cubicles don't even have doors. Bout is certainly enjoying his day to day existence a hell of alot more than he was in Thailand. The problem he has with the US jail is he is likely going to spend the next 2 decades there.

He has one other thing he has to worry about. There are 4 types of people other inmates will kill or assault to gain cred. Child/women abusers, snitchs, cops, and terrorists.

I would say, in most US prisons, there is a Russian/Arian population sufficient to protect Mr. Bout. Also, he would probably be able to deal for his safety guarantee as well, from the other organisations within the population. Remember what Mr. Bout has been extradited for, and that groups within the population are after what only Mr. Bout can get is hands on. Also remember, he is a hero to the underworld in Russia, and would not be seen as a terrorist by many. He has also done legal business with the Americans - it was his planes which initially took weapons into Kurkuk at the beginning of the war on contract with the US Armed forces.

That is not taking into account the protection which Mr. Putin will have Obama guarantee considering a Russian citizen is incarcerated. There is evidence that I read somewhere which links members of the Russian Federation with bouts activities. Though, without the links I read I guess it is hearsay.

[djvolak]

I have worked in jails in the states plus have had a family member incarcerated. State jails and prisons are no fun, but medium, low and minimum security federal "correctional institutions" in the states like where Bout is are entirely different. They call them. "Club Feds" They are more a campus than a prison. They have dinning halls, TV room for each race, libraries, computer centers, sports programs, fitness centers, music centers, pool tables, minimarts, (expect Bout to gain his weight back), community colleges and other education programs. The cubicles don't even have doors. Bout is certainly enjoying his day to day existence a hell of alot more than he was in Thailand. The problem he has with the US jail is he is likely going to spend the next 2 decades there.

He has one other thing he has to worry about. There are 4 types of people other inmates will kill or assault to gain cred. Child/women abusers, snitchs, cops, and terrorists.

Check that. He would not be in a federal prison till he gets sentanced. He will be in a county or city jail in holding for the feds till he gets sentanced so he will not have mini mart access not any of that other stuff you posted about. Been there done that and it is not as cushy as you tried to make it sound. He will probably be seperated from the rest because he is hi profile too like they did with Sammy the Bull in Phx. I cant say as to he's guilty or not so I leave you to the rest but don't think he's in some club fed place cause it ain't really like that. Happy New Year All!

[jfchandler]

I liked the before and after photos of the chubby Bout prior to Thailand incarceration and the skinny Bout post two years of Thailand incarceration. Maybe he wasn't eating enough som tam there on his vegetarian diet.

Note to self: if at all possible, stay out of Thailand jails...

PS - I'm surprised no one yet has replied, if he thinks Thailand's jails are like a zoo and America's are like a mental hospital, then he as an inhabitant of both must be either an animal or insane.. Maybe both???

Edited January 4, 2011 by jfchandler

[happyrobert]

Let's see - no family visits, no books, solitary confinement, inadequate vegetarian food (if he was M*slim they would work around the pork issue, you can bet on that). And you can bet this will go on for years before they come to trial.

Highly indicative of a system where you are innocent until proven guilty...

Time to clean house.

Edited January 4, 2011 by happyrobert

[zorro1]

For his time in Thailand, he seems very unappreciative of the extremely beneficial Bang Kwang Obesity Reduction Program:

Hopefully, when he reaches the American prison system, he won't lose the benefits he achieved here while participating in the dramatic and hugely beneficial obesity-reduction program employed by the Thailand penal system.

BEFORE (upon arrest):

AFTER (Aug. 20):

"Im a vegetarin"

ROFL. bad case of vege bellie

Still continuing to shed those unwanted pounds on Oct. 5 using the effective Bang Kwang Obesity Reduction Program:

"Im a vegetarian" eerrm vegetarian"

yeh right

Edited January 4, 2011 by zorro1

[Nisa]

Let's see - no family visits, no books, solitary confinement, inadequate vegetarian food (if he was M*slim they would work around the pork issue, you can bet on that). And you can bet this will go on for years before they come to trial.

Highly indicative of a system where you are innocent until proven guilty...

Time to clean house.

you are taking the words of guy as fact who was caught in a sting operation, has had numerous international warrants, is nicknamed "the merchant of death', who says he can't afford a lawyer .....

Edit: though being from Russia I found it interesting he enjoyed his open air (no heat or A/C) confinement in one of the hottest countries in the world as opposed to being protected from the elements and having a controlled and comfortable temp.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Nisa

[ScubaBuddha]

S.B., Bout should be prosecuted for his actions, but as you imply nothing happens to high level officials who are responsible for similar activities through covert operations where the same type of atrocities occur.

Who armed the Taliban during the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan? A good example of a failed

policy.

I am retired U.S. military and am far from being an apologist for scum like Bout.

Your right. (although the Taliban didn't actually form until after the Soviet withdrawal) We absolutely dropped the ball after Afghanistan. In fact, as Jon Stewert and Douglas Farah correctly state, we essentially created the largest supplier of black market weapons by bringing down the Soviet Union. Of course hindsight is 20/20, but we knew what we needed to do after the Afgan-Soviet war, but we didn't do it. We left 100's of thousands of young, uneducated, angry and desperate young men in a destroyed country with no future. Enter Taliban. At the time we were focused solely on what was perceived as our largest threat, communism. (Read or watch Chalie's War)

Edited January 4, 2011 by ScubaBuddha

[ScubaBuddha]

I have worked in jails in the states plus have had a family member incarcerated. State jails and prisons are no fun, but medium, low and minimum security federal "correctional institutions" in the states like where Bout is are entirely different. They call them. "Club Feds" They are more a campus than a prison. They have dinning halls, TV room for each race, libraries, computer centers, sports programs, fitness centers, music centers, pool tables, minimarts, (expect Bout to gain his weight back), community colleges and other education programs. The cubicles don't even have doors. Bout is certainly enjoying his day to day existence a hell of alot more than he was in Thailand. The problem he has with the US jail is he is likely going to spend the next 2 decades there.

He has one other thing he has to worry about. There are 4 types of people other inmates will kill or assault to gain cred. Child/women abusers, snitchs, cops, and terrorists.

Check that. He would not be in a federal prison till he gets sentanced. He will be in a county or city jail in holding for the feds till he gets sentanced so he will not have mini mart access not any of that other stuff you posted about. Been there done that and it is not as cushy as you tried to make it sound. He will probably be seperated from the rest because he is hi profile too like they did with Sammy the Bull in Phx. I cant say as to he's guilty or not so I leave you to the rest but don't think he's in some club fed place cause it ain't really like that. Happy New Year All!

Medium, low and minimum federal correctional institutions certainly are as I described. Multiple articles state he is in a special federal pre-trial facility. This could just be a part of a county jail used by the feds, I am not sure how they do it in NY. Even then they will have commissary available even if it's just a list the inmate shops off of from inside his cell. All inmates in the states have an account they can either deposit money they earn through jail/prison work programs, (can be about 10-75c a day) or have people send money into their account from outside.

[sirchai]

It is okay for the U.S. to furnish arms to rebel groups, aka freedom fighters, trying to overthrow anti-American governments. However, when people like Bout supply weapons to those unsympathetic to U.S. interests they are called gunrunners or illegal arms dealers. Unfortunately Bout wasn't selling arms to customers on the "approved buyers list"

It's okay for the f....CIA and other superficial American institutions to sell weapons first to their enemies, who suddenly become friends..so they have to sell some better weapons to their friend's enemies, arrai na?

Not to mention the cocaine coming back on the streets deals and various other idiotic stuff. What about Laos a few years ago? The DEA in Bangkok and other weird American made situations?

Guess they should eat more burgers, man............

Keep the faith America...god is with you...ho, ho ho...:jap:

[housepainter]

Victor ............. the name hardly suits him having clearly lost his battle against extradition.

Bout .............. as in fight, which he faces everyday for the remainder of his wasted life rotting in an American prison.

He dealt in the delivery of death to anyone who paid. Anyone. Therefore he won't have any trouble with the Americans as he was clearly apolitical in his professional life.

Just a man trying to earn a dishonest crust for his family, protected and supplied by the Russian Government mafia until the US exerted their influence and offered a higher price to the Thais than the Russians did.

He did supply war mongers and terrorists. Some of his weaponry did kill American citizens as well as the UN forces.

It's pay back time. They've got him and he's going into the prison system to disappear for good. Victor Bout is a name that will quickly fade and he will die in prison. It won't even make the news.

[Ulysses G.]

Let's see - no family visits, no books, solitary confinement, inadequate vegetarian food (if he was M*slim they would work around the pork issue, you can bet on that). And you can bet this will go on for years before they come to trial.

Most likely he gets both books and TV, but not enough choice for his liking and he is in solitary confinement so other prisoners do not stick a shiv in his heart.

[TimeBandit2]

Won't the prosecution have to prove he believed the weapons would be used to kill Americans? Otherwise it won't have jurisdiction and he would need to go back to Thailand anyway or to Colombia (though that seems unlikely given the illegal items were supposed to be purchased under false pretenses by agents of the US Gov.) He could ask of the judge to be tried for that crime separately before any others because that was the fact leading to his US extradition. If he was found innocent, he could demand to be freed where he was arrested. Maybe this is crazy - but judges decide these things, and they're reasonable requests by themselves.

[ScubaBuddha]

Won't the prosecution have to prove he believed the weapons would be used to kill Americans? Otherwise it won't have jurisdiction and he would need to go back to Thailand anyway or to Colombia (though that seems unlikely given the illegal items were supposed to be purchased under false pretenses by agents of the US Gov.) He could ask of the judge to be tried for that crime separately before any others because that was the fact leading to his US extradition. If he was found innocent, he could demand to be freed where he was arrested. Maybe this is crazy - but judges decide these things, and they're reasonable requests by themselves.

It has been widely stated that the undercover agents twice told him what they intended to use the weapons for, that they were to be specifically used to kill American pilots.

Interesting question about whether he would get a ticket home or to Thailand if acquitted. Moot point really because he won't be. He may some day get released and it is generally the policy if not the law that released inmates are given the option to be returned to, or at at least given enough money to return to where they were arrested if they had been moved, but as far as I know that is only within the US.

[fredtitmus]

Well, as one who has never been in jail in the US, Thailand, or anywhere, I find his comments about the differences quite interesting. Obviously a very intelligent man. I hope he gets a fair trial, etc.

To be fair let's put all of the arm dealers who create misery for people especially the poor behind the bar. Let's go after Chaney and Bush and others after Bout

so true! and dont forgot their uk partner Mr Blair

[cbc]

I am canadian and am usually neutral.But,it just sickens me when i read some of the usa bashing that some of the members on here spew out.In most if not all cases,if their country was at war or threatened by another country.Who would be the first country they would want to help or say should intervene to help them out.Well,the usa of course! I answered my own question but,that's the way it woul be.So please think before you start bashing the united states.

[Hawaiian]

Thank you, cbc. You are so right. While the U.S. has many faults, they can usually be counted on to help other nations in times of need such as natural catastrophes. However, as an American taxpayer I am tired of paying the bill for money and supplies that never reach the intended recipients because of corruption.

Yes, sometimes the aid comes with strings attached. As the old saying goes, there is no such thing as a free lunch. This is mainly because of politicians justifying their generosity with taxpayers' money.

[happyrobert]

Let's see - no family visits, no books, solitary confinement, inadequate vegetarian food (if he was M*slim they would work around the pork issue, you can bet on that). And you can bet this will go on for years before they come to trial.

Highly indicative of a system where you are innocent until proven guilty...

Time to clean house.

you are taking the words of guy as fact who was caught in a sting operation, has had numerous international warrants, is nicknamed "the merchant of death', who says he can't afford a lawyer .....

Edit: though being from Russia I found it interesting he enjoyed his open air (no heat or A/C) confinement in one of the hottest countries in the world as opposed to being protected from the elements and having a controlled and comfortable temp.

Technically, you are correct, but from the practical standpoint, having been a cop for two decades and having been inside numerous jails and prisons, I have no reason to doubt what he said is accurate.

And let me add this as it is pertinent and responds to another's post: numerous NGO's and even one federal report that up to 20% of state prison (any sentence) and city jail (one year or less sentence) are innocents wrongly convicted. When the feds come out with this, you can bet it's on the conservative side.

[Scott]

One off-topic, anti-American rant has been deleted and a post quoting the deleted post.

Stay on topic, please.

[Credo]

Interesting question about whether he would get a ticket home or to Thailand if acquitted. Moot point really because he won't be. He may some day get released and it is generally the policy if not the law that released inmates are given the option to be returned to, or at at least given enough money to return to where they were arrested if they had been moved, but as far as I know that is only within the US.

I don't know that he would/could be returned to Thailand. After his extradition, he may be persona non gratis. If for any reason he was returned, then the legal proceedings that were underway would resume. That would put Thailand in a bit of a dilemma. They sent the hot potato to the US, only to have it return.

I find it interesting that so many people from the hang-em-high crowd are suddenly concerned about his welfare in a US jail.

[Buchholz]

Excerpt from:

US hearing for 'Merchant of Death' Bout postponed

Military analysts in Moscow have said his arrest was a particularly sensitive blow for Russia because it threatened to expose potential links between government officials and the illicit arms trade.

Russia initially fought the extradition to the United States. But the Kremlin's top foreign policy adviser said in November that Bout "should answer the questions that US justice has for him."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iqNEk9WxNDWXFUfqx-cwfIlrG3Lw?docId=CNG.a873154189fae54fc673166df8ae65f2.d41

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-01-08

Edited January 8, 2011 by Buchholz

[TAWP]

I don't know that he would/could be returned to Thailand. After his extradition, he may be persona non gratis.

You mean 'persona non grata'?

Gratis has a very different meaning...

[Thai at Heart]

Russia 'terrified' over Viktor Bout trial, lawyer claims

The Kremlin is "terrified" that America's forthcoming trial of Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout will expose his links to top Russian officials and Moscow's secret deals with controversial regimes around the world, it has been claimed.

Lawyer talks about pending case of Victor Bout

"It is limitless," said Mr Amsterdam. "He is connected to Russia's shadow state and the most powerful elements of the power elite. He has tremendous information on how that shadow state works and on its dealings with Venezuela, Iran and across Asia.

Well he either sits in prison, or spills the beans and gets taken out by the Russians when he gets out.

[Buchholz]

Bout's wife says alleged arms dealer was kidnapped, not extradited

Russian businessman Viktor Bout was extradited from Thailand to the United States last year without the proper procedures being followed, so he was in effect kidnapped, his wife said on Friday. Alla Bout said in an interview with Russia Today television channel that her husband's Thai lawyer could not find any extradition documents.

"Nobody signed any documents, no written extradition permission was given. So, he was merely kidnapped," she said.

Former Soviet military translator Bout was arrested in Thailand in March 2008 during a sting operation led by U.S. agents. He was extradited to the United States last November after spending more than two and half years in Thai prisons. He is currently in New York awaiting a trial on arms supply charges. If convicted, Bout could face anything from 25 years to life in prison. Bout's family arrived in New York in early January to support him during the court proceedings. She told the TV channel that she was afraid that U.S. officials could put her under official pressure. "Any measure can be taken, right up to arrest."

She also expressed doubts that she would be allowed back into the United States if she left the country. "There are rumors that they can simply refuse me entry," she said.

Continues:

http://en.rian.ru/world/20110121/162241283.html

RIA Novosti - January 21, 2011

[slapout]

Kidnapping, crossing state lines comes under the jurisdiction of the FBI, notify them with your complaint. She is correct on the refusal part, "they can simply refuse me entry" Might be hard for her husband to grantee funds while she is in the USA and as a character witness, there may be a couple questions raised. If she fesses up to knowing the minute details of her husbands business and is tends toward gossip, she may get asylum.

[slapout]

Kidnapping, crossing state lines comes under the jurisdiction of the FBI, notify them with your complaint. She is correct on the refusal part, "they can simply refuse me entry" Might be hard for her husband to grantee funds while she is in the USA and as a character witness, there may be a couple questions raised. If she fesses up to knowing the minute details of her husbands business and is tends toward gossip, she may get asylum.

[brahmburgers]

If true about his selling weapons to heinous people in places like Sierra Leone and Liberia, then his jail accommodations are a lot nicer than the what the victims of violence there have to put up with for the rest of their lives. It can be argued that the saturation of cheap weapons in those West African countries made killing and maiming more prevalent. Of course, we can't blame arms traffickers for the sicko mental states of the people who compelled children to kill and maim other children, but prevalence of weapons was arguably a factor.

Mr. Bout gets 3 meals a day, hot showers, clean bedding and maybe even satellite TV(?). That's a lot more than the victims of dirty little wars get in countries where trafficked weapons and land mines are everywhere.