Red Shirts To Stage Mass Rally On Sunday Regardless Of Bail Rulings: Jatuporn

[webfact]

Red shirts to rally regardless of bail rulings

By The Nation

The red shirts will still stage a mass rally on Sunday regardless of today's bail review for detained protesters and the court ban on public assembly for Pheu Thai MP Jatuporn Promphan, leaders said yesterday.

"Rally organisers will meet tomorrow to map out activities," Thida Thawornseth said.

Jatuporn said Thida was in charge of coordinating various factions within the movement. He said he was appealing the bail condition banning him from appearing at public gatherings, but the ruling may not come before Sunday's rally.

He said Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban had no justification in warning Thaksin Shinawatra against inciting unrest, as the fugitive ex-prime minister no longer had any involvement with the red shirts.

The seven red-shirt leaders will submit bail applications this afternoon, but the outcome was up to the court's judgement, Thida said.

Tharit Pengdit, head of the Department of Special Investigation, said prosecutors would not object to requests for temporary release by weng Tojirakarn and Kokaew Pikulthong.

PM's Office Minister Satit Wongnongtaey said he still saw Thaksin wielding influence over the red shirts.

Although Thaksin remained a popular figure, the government had succeeded in bringing the country back to normal so it could move forward despite political differences, he said.

"All opinion polls have come to the same conclusion - the people are the real victims of political violence."

Many red shirts now recognised the government's efforts to bridge the social divide, he said.

-- The Nation 2011-01-04

[princejohnjay]

All still the same crap even in this new year....

[Insight]

He said Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban had no justification in warning Thaksin Shinawatra against inciting unrest, as the fugitive ex-prime minister no longer had any involvement with the red shirts.

The little motivational letter Juttaporn read out during the last rally - who was the author of it again?

[Kernow86]

All still the same crap even in this new year....

Agree. A shame.

[Prapoj]

So we have 2 problem this week. UDD bail, and also PAD arrest in Cambodia.

[Ricardo]

He said Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban had no justification in warning Thaksin Shinawatra against inciting unrest, as the fugitive ex-prime minister no longer had any involvement with the red shirts.

The little motivational letter Juttaporn read out during the last rally - who was the author of it again?

Who did the 40 PTP MPs go to visit, and partly-successfully lobby for Mingkwan as leader, in Dubai just before the the New Year, again ? Clearly not he-who-has-quit-Thai-politics-for-good ! Perhaps it was a mercy-mission, to help the UAE-economy by doing some last-minute pre-New-Year shopping, in the exclusive retail-outlets of the beleaguered Gulf state ?

But interesting that "Jatupon said Thida was in charge of coordinating various factions within the movement", a small step towards his accepting her current acting-caretaker-leadership status, even if he does still claim that sometimes she speaks only for herself & not the movement as-a-whole.

[yoshiwara]

He said Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban had no justification in warning Thaksin Shinawatra against inciting unrest, as the fugitive ex-prime minister no longer had any involvement with the red shirts.

The little motivational letter Juttaporn read out during the last rally - who was the author of it again?

Who did the 40 PTP MPs go to visit, and partly-successfully lobby for Mingkwan as leader, in Dubai just before the the New Year, again ? Clearly not he-who-has-quit-Thai-politics-for-good ! Perhaps it was a mercy-mission, to help the UAE-economy by doing some last-minute pre-New-Year shopping, in the exclusive retail-outlets of the beleaguered Gulf state ?

But interesting that "Jatupon said Thida was in charge of coordinating various factions within the movement", a small step towards his accepting her current acting-caretaker-leadership status, even if he does still claim that sometimes she speaks only for herself & not the movement as-a-whole.

The lobby by Mingkwan was a failure, but showed just who is in charge and the process for appointing a new leader.Thaksin has made it 100% clear that no one, but no one can be leader if there is the slightest chance that they would not move aside if the reds toppled the current government. For Thaksin, having a family member in place is the safest option. The reason for all the different red 'factions', is to fulfill Thaksin's divide and rule strategy. Jatuporn is the consummate red leadership liar. They all are.

[ianf]

He said Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban had no justification in warning Thaksin Shinawatra against inciting unrest, as the fugitive ex-prime minister no longer had any involvement with the red shirts.

The little motivational letter Juttaporn read out during the last rally - who was the author of it again?

Off course, but Juttaporn has proved himself time and time again to be a typical Kwai. Words come out of his mouth ... but there's no brain behind them. A troublemaker of the first degree. Shame on him.

[ChiangMaiFun]

Good for them - just watched one of the 'new' leaders of the red shirts on BBC World - credible, intelligent and against violence - hope they have learned and can now move forward to build a strong unity for a new government - as she said 'the vast majority of red shirst are against violence'

[hyperdimension]

He said Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban had no justification in warning Thaksin Shinawatra against inciting unrest, as the fugitive ex-prime minister no longer had any involvement with the red shirts.

The little motivational letter Juttaporn read out during the last rally - who was the author of it again?

Off course, but Juttaporn has proved himself time and time again to be a typical Kwai. Words come out of his mouth ... but there's no brain behind them. A troublemaker of the first degree. Shame on him.

He is therefore the perfect candidate for the position of Prime Minister of Thailand. ChiangMaiFun and other UDD supporters, do you agree? I'd like to see his face on campaign posters all over the city as we come up to the general election. Just thinking about his face makes me laugh.

[surangw]

who is going to pay them this time?

[wayfarer108]

He said Deputy PM Suthep Thaugsuban had no justification in warning Thaksin Shinawatra against inciting unrest, as the fugitive ex-prime minister no longer had any involvement with the red shirts.

The little motivational letter Juttaporn read out during the last rally - who was the author of it again?

Exactly. Why this man hasn't been expelled from parliament and arrested beggars disbelief.

[Godolphin]

They have a right to do what they want to do within the law.

Anyone who has looked at the events last year and thinks it is all over is delusion IMHO.

Despite populist posturings by Abhisit a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation.

They want their share and who can blame them?

The genie is out of the bottle and so many Thais now realise that they have been hoodwinked for centuries.

I am not a Thaksin supporter but you don't have to have much imagination to realise why so many of the poor liked him. And, yes, I know he is/was an arch-manipulator.

You only have to look at the dozens of stories every year highlighting corruption from the very top of Thai society right down through to the bottom to realise how widespread corruption is.

Check out the Wikileaks stuff on what some of Thailand's neighbours think of the corruption factor.

The military control everything in Thailand. They overule governments,parliamentary process, independent legal process, democratic elections, the national budget, foreign policy and a lot more.

I applaud the poor of Thailand standing up to this emporer's new clothes farce which so paralises everything in their society.

Good on them for having a go against a system so manifestly rotten from top to bottom - right through the government, the judicary, the military in particiular, the police (organised like a Mafia gang), the education system and other institutuions which can't really be discussed here.

If I was working on a building site for less than 200 baht a day while living in a hut I'd want to have a go at the system which justifies this too.

Edited January 4, 2011 by Godolphin

[whybother]

They have a right to do what they want to do within the law.

Anyone who has looked at the events last year and thinks it is all over is delusion IMHO.

Despite populist posturings by Abhisit a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation.

They want their share and who can blame them?

The genie is out of the bottle and so many Thais now realise that they have been hoodwinked for centuries.

I am not a Thaksin supporter but you don't have to have much imagination to realise why so many of the poor liked him. And, yes, I know he is/was an arch-manipulator.

You only have to look at the dozens of stories every year highlighting corruption from the very top of Thai society right down through to the bottom to realise how widespread corruption is.

Check out the Wikileaks stuff on what some of Thailand's neighbours think of the corruption factor.

The military control everything in Thailand. They overule governments,parliamentary process, independent legal process, democratic elections, the national budget, foreign policy and a lot more.

I applaud the poor of Thailand standing up to this emporer's new clothes farce which so paralises everything in their society.

Good on them for having a go against a system so manifestly rotten from top to bottom - right through the government, the judicary, the military in particiular, the police (organised like a Mafia gang), the education system and other institutuions which can't really be discussed here.

If I was working on a building site for less than 200 baht a day while living in a hut I'd want to have a go at the system which justifies this too.

"a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation."

And these people don't think Thaksin is included in this?

[ChiangMaiFun]

They have a right to do what they want to do within the law.

Anyone who has looked at the events last year and thinks it is all over is delusion IMHO.

Despite populist posturings by Abhisit a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation.

They want their share and who can blame them?

The genie is out of the bottle and so many Thais now realise that they have been hoodwinked for centuries.

I am not a Thaksin supporter but you don't have to have much imagination to realise why so many of the poor liked him. And, yes, I know he is/was an arch-manipulator.

You only have to look at the dozens of stories every year highlighting corruption from the very top of Thai society right down through to the bottom to realise how widespread corruption is.

Check out the Wikileaks stuff on what some of Thailand's neighbours think of the corruption factor.

The military control everything in Thailand. They overule governments,parliamentary process, independent legal process, democratic elections, the national budget, foreign policy and a lot more.

I applaud the poor of Thailand standing up to this emporer's new clothes farce which so paralises everything in their society.

Good on them for having a go against a system so manifestly rotten from top to bottom - right through the government, the judicary, the military in particiular, the police (organised like a Mafia gang), the education system and other institutuions which can't really be discussed here.

If I was working on a building site for less than 200 baht a day while living in a hut I'd want to have a go at the system which justifies this too.

excellent and intelligent post - spot on!

[philw]

They have a right to do what they want to do within the law.

Anyone who has looked at the events last year and thinks it is all over is delusion IMHO.

Despite populist posturings by Abhisit a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation.

They want their share and who can blame them?

The genie is out of the bottle and so many Thais now realise that they have been hoodwinked for centuries.

I am not a Thaksin supporter but you don't have to have much imagination to realise why so many of the poor liked him. And, yes, I know he is/was an arch-manipulator.

You only have to look at the dozens of stories every year highlighting corruption from the very top of Thai society right down through to the bottom to realise how widespread corruption is.

Check out the Wikileaks stuff on what some of Thailand's neighbours think of the corruption factor.

The military control everything in Thailand. They overule governments,parliamentary process, independent legal process, democratic elections, the national budget, foreign policy and a lot more.

I applaud the poor of Thailand standing up to this emporer's new clothes farce which so paralises everything in their society.

Good on them for having a go against a system so manifestly rotten from top to bottom - right through the government, the judicary, the military in particiular, the police (organised like a Mafia gang), the education system and other institutuions which can't really be discussed here.

If I was working on a building site for less than 200 baht a day while living in a hut I'd want to have a go at the system which justifies this too.

excellent and intelligent post - spot on!

Absolutely agree.

[slapout]

The 'coalition government' that seems to be the end product of Thai politics, with its subsequent appointments, does not seem conducive to honest service for the general public.

When those who have been voted out, disqualified, caught with their hands in the cookie jar, etc can still be appointed, influence and in some cases still retain their position, street demonstrations will probably have little real affect.

There are better country management systems out there, that could be adopted in Thailand but it would in all likely hood be a messy undertaking.

[Insight]

They have a right to do what they want to do within the law.

Anyone who has looked at the events last year and thinks it is all over is delusion IMHO.

Despite populist posturings by Abhisit a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation.

They want their share and who can blame them?

The genie is out of the bottle and so many Thais now realise that they have been hoodwinked for centuries.

I am not a Thaksin supporter but you don't have to have much imagination to realise why so many of the poor liked him. And, yes, I know he is/was an arch-manipulator.

You only have to look at the dozens of stories every year highlighting corruption from the very top of Thai society right down through to the bottom to realise how widespread corruption is.

Check out the Wikileaks stuff on what some of Thailand's neighbours think of the corruption factor.

The military control everything in Thailand. They overule governments,parliamentary process, independent legal process, democratic elections, the national budget, foreign policy and a lot more.

I applaud the poor of Thailand standing up to this emporer's new clothes farce which so paralises everything in their society.

Good on them for having a go against a system so manifestly rotten from top to bottom - right through the government, the judicary, the military in particiular, the police (organised like a Mafia gang), the education system and other institutuions which can't really be discussed here.

If I was working on a building site for less than 200 baht a day while living in a hut I'd want to have a go at the system which justifies this too.

excellent and intelligent post - spot on!

Absolutely agree.

Stand up and take a bow, especially for the "I am not a Thaksin supporter but..." bit.

[ChiangMaiFun]

They have a right to do what they want to do within the law.

Anyone who has looked at the events last year and thinks it is all over is delusion IMHO.

Despite populist posturings by Abhisit a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation.

They want their share and who can blame them?

The genie is out of the bottle and so many Thais now realise that they have been hoodwinked for centuries.

I am not a Thaksin supporter but you don't have to have much imagination to realise why so many of the poor liked him. And, yes, I know he is/was an arch-manipulator.

You only have to look at the dozens of stories every year highlighting corruption from the very top of Thai society right down through to the bottom to realise how widespread corruption is.

Check out the Wikileaks stuff on what some of Thailand's neighbours think of the corruption factor.

The military control everything in Thailand. They overule governments,parliamentary process, independent legal process, democratic elections, the national budget, foreign policy and a lot more.

I applaud the poor of Thailand standing up to this emporer's new clothes farce which so paralises everything in their society.

Good on them for having a go against a system so manifestly rotten from top to bottom - right through the government, the judicary, the military in particiular, the police (organised like a Mafia gang), the education system and other institutuions which can't really be discussed here.

If I was working on a building site for less than 200 baht a day while living in a hut I'd want to have a go at the system which justifies this too.

excellent and intelligent post - spot on!

Absolutely agree.

Stand up and take a bow, especially for the "I am not a Thaksin supporter but..." bit.

I'm not a Thaksin supporter either - and nor are most reds... you have it wrong this post really gets it right.

It's a cultural paradigm shift that is happening - it's not about personalities its about the larger view - it will take decades and will happen

[sungod]

Sure, good post. This thing has got bigger than Thaksin now, however as he usually does, Thaksin has seen the opportunity for him and his PT cronies to use the red shirt movement as a vehicle for their own gains.

Edited January 5, 2011 by sungod

[Insight]

I'm not a Thaksin supporter either - and nor are most reds... you have it wrong this post really gets it right.

Give it a rest mate. Have you actually been to a red rally?

I was in Chiang Mai area over the New Year. In one of the Internet cafes the owner was watching his red TV. The speaker on the stage was the Communist leader bloke who was mentioning Thaksin's name every few minutes, much to the satisfaction of the audience, stating that proof that Thaksin doesn't want to hurt the country can be found by the way he fled the country (dodging the ensuing court action had absolutely nothing to do with it, of course).

Repeating this silly "it's not about Thaksin" mantra to us for the fourth year running while singing a completely different song to the red shirt supporters just isn't going to convince us this time around. Remove Thaksin and the red shirt movement will diminish significantly.

[ChiangMaiFun]

I'm not a Thaksin supporter either - and nor are most reds... you have it wrong this post really gets it right.

Give it a rest mate. Have you actually been to a red rally?

I was in Chiang Mai area over the New Year. In one of the Internet cafes the owner was watching his red TV. The speaker on the stage was the Communist leader bloke who was mentioning Thaksin's name every few minutes, much to the satisfaction of the audience, stating that proof that Thaksin doesn't want to hurt the country can be found by the way he fled the country (dodging the ensuing court action had absolutely nothing to do with it, of course).

Repeating this silly "it's not about Thaksin" mantra to us for the fourth year running while singing a completely different song to the red shirt supporters just isn't going to convince us this time around. Remove Thaksin and the red shirt movement will diminish significantly.

You have misunderstood the dynamics of history and the concept of cultural shift - I can't teach you about it in five minutes it took me years of study at masters level to even have a small grasp of it. Suffice to say that looking at the 'now' and at 'personalities' is like looking at a candle and expecting to see the sun.

[whybother]

excellent and intelligent post - spot on!

Absolutely agree.

Maybe you can explain this for me then?

"a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation."

And these people don't think Thaksin is included in this?

[ChiangMaiFun]

excellent and intelligent post - spot on!

Absolutely agree.

Maybe you can explain this for me then?

"a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation."

And these people don't think Thaksin is included in this?

Thaksin maybe, in many ways, a focus and catalyst for the wider feelings of frustration - this is inappropraite in many and most ways - but many feel things were better (for them) back then.

Now there is a much wider feeling of dis-enfranchisment that has nothing to do with Thaksin - yes if his money disappeared it would be harder for them to continue and yes he has a large influence but to say that the whole frustration and cultural shift is to do with him is, frankly, born of lack of understanding of the larger picture.

[Insight]

I'm not a Thaksin supporter either - and nor are most reds... you have it wrong this post really gets it right.

Give it a rest mate. Have you actually been to a red rally?

I was in Chiang Mai area over the New Year. In one of the Internet cafes the owner was watching his red TV. The speaker on the stage was the Communist leader bloke who was mentioning Thaksin's name every few minutes, much to the satisfaction of the audience, stating that proof that Thaksin doesn't want to hurt the country can be found by the way he fled the country (dodging the ensuing court action had absolutely nothing to do with it, of course).

Repeating this silly "it's not about Thaksin" mantra to us for the fourth year running while singing a completely different song to the red shirt supporters just isn't going to convince us this time around. Remove Thaksin and the red shirt movement will diminish significantly.

You have misunderstood the dynamics of history and the concept of cultural shift - I can't teach you about it in five minutes it took me years of study at masters level to even have a small grasp of it. Suffice to say that looking at the 'now' and at 'personalities' is like looking at a candle and expecting to see the sun.

All this condescending nonsense aside (even more so given its a developing situation I've been observing for the past 9 years), could you please answer the first question of whether you have actually been to a red rally or not? And if so, just how many images of Thaksin did you see and how many times did you hear his name mentioned?

[ChiangMaiFun]

I'm not a Thaksin supporter either - and nor are most reds... you have it wrong this post really gets it right.

Give it a rest mate. Have you actually been to a red rally?

I was in Chiang Mai area over the New Year. In one of the Internet cafes the owner was watching his red TV. The speaker on the stage was the Communist leader bloke who was mentioning Thaksin's name every few minutes, much to the satisfaction of the audience, stating that proof that Thaksin doesn't want to hurt the country can be found by the way he fled the country (dodging the ensuing court action had absolutely nothing to do with it, of course).

Repeating this silly "it's not about Thaksin" mantra to us for the fourth year running while singing a completely different song to the red shirt supporters just isn't going to convince us this time around. Remove Thaksin and the red shirt movement will diminish significantly.

You have misunderstood the dynamics of history and the concept of cultural shift - I can't teach you about it in five minutes it took me years of study at masters level to even have a small grasp of it. Suffice to say that looking at the 'now' and at 'personalities' is like looking at a candle and expecting to see the sun.

All this condescending nonsense aside (even more so given its a developing situation I've been observing for the past 9 years), could you please answer the first question of whether you have actually been to a red rally or not? And if so, just how many images of Thaksin did you see and how many times did you hear his name mentioned?

such ignorance - it's pitiful

[Insight]

such ignorance - it's pitiful

Can you answer the question?

[ChiangMaiFun]

I am not interested in attending a rally be it red, yellow or pink! it is irrelevant to the cultural shifts happening not just over the last 9 years you mention but over the next 50 years - Thailand will be unrecognizable but I doubt you understand anything I am saying so I shall not bother pursuing it further - people don't know what they don't know and you are one of them.

[Insight]

I am not interested in attending a rally be it red, yellow or pink! it is irrelevant to the cultural shifts happening not just over the last 9 years you mention but over the next 50 years - Thailand will be unrecognizable but I doubt you understand anything I am saying so I shall not bother pursuing it further - people don't know what they don't know and you are one of them.

Hang on, if you haven't attended any red rallies how can you sit on this forum and inform us that:

I'm not a Thaksin supporter either - and nor are most reds

?

[Pi Sek]

excellent and intelligent post - spot on!

Maybe you can explain this for me then?

"a lot of Thai people are justifiably pissed off that there is so much wealth in the country going to criminal networks of capitalists, the military/police, and others who control the nation."

And these people don't think Thaksin is included in this?

Thaksin maybe, in many ways, a focus and catalyst for the wider feelings of frustration - this is inappropraite in many and most ways - but many feel things were better (for them) back then.

Now there is a much wider feeling of dis-enfranchisment that has nothing to do with Thaksin - yes if his money disappeared it would be harder for them to continue and yes he has a large influence but to say that the whole frustration and cultural shift is to do with him is, frankly, born of lack of understanding of the larger picture.

I think many of us - including whybother - get this. That still doesn't answer his question though. We understand that the Red Shirts are pissed off with the elite. But the Red Shirts fail to recognise that Thaksin is the absolute paradigm of what they hate.

The pro-Thaksin Red Shirts (which, as whybother correctly pointed out, is the vast majority of them - as witnessed by anyone who has been to a UDD rally, past or present) DO feel like Thaksin helped them. They think that...

1) Thaksin totally cleared the national debt and any national debt the country has now is because of governments subsequent to Thaksin's;

2) The use of yaba dropped significantly since Thaksin's War on Drugs;

3) The 2,500 or so that died in said War on Drugs were mostly dealers and junkies.

4) They got richer when Thaksin was around and poorer since he left;

5) The military threw Thaksin out because he was trying to move the control of power from the military to the civilian government.

6) Thaksin introduced the 30 Baht healthcare scheme.

7) Thaksin was not an autocrat or a dictator.

I only know this because I, first hand, not some reporter with a politically-swayed translator or whatever, have talked to Red Shirts in their own language and dialect, about what they really want. Such discussion was not welcomed in March-May but is acceptable to them these days.

All of the above, of course, is simply NOT TRUE! And they heard it from the Red Shirt media networks, including those which were operating during Thaksin's time - the same ones who oversaw his electoral intimidation crews (see Kwanchai Praiphana). For me it is no sign of undue censorship, lack of democracy or whatever, that these media outlets were shut down, as they were unrepentantly lieing to the public about what never happened. What actually happened is:

1) Thaksin raised the national debt significantly.

2) The price if yaba rose significantly (result of less supply), but its use was more widespread than previously (higher demand as the campaign increased the reach of yaba - it was made more of a 'designer drug' - the rise in demand was larger than the fall in supply).

3) At last count and with the investigation still ongoing, approximately 1,400 people killed extrajudicially in Thaksin's War on Drugs were definitely not involved in narcotics.

4) They had more disposable cash for many months, but were left with long-term debt that they could absolutely not afford to pay back for approximately two generations. However, the world economy was booming in Thaksin's time and is not nowadays.

5) The military threw Thaksin out because he was trying to centralise the control of power to himself, undermining democratic principles and challenging the authority of the country's higher instutions.

6) Thaksin put into implementation former-PM Chuan's 30 Baht healthcare scheme, which was not introduced by Chuan as it was not ready. Its premature materialisation made it a failure and it was replaced by a free scheme because it was too expensive to collect the 30 Baht fee.

7) Thaksin is very much an autocrat and Thailand was making very clear steps to become a dictatorship under Thaksin.