Six dead, U.S. Congresswoman Giffords among at least 12 injured in Az. shooting

[chuckd]

OK, now reported still alive.

During her last election she was opposed by an extremist tea party republican and the campaign was very nasty. She was also one of twenty congressmen "targeted" by Sarah Palin's (right wing tea party leader) SarahPac for defeat. This was clearly a politically motivated act of violence given the target and current politics, but probably due to one madman.

The shooter is American, alive, a 22 year old war veteran.

CNN says that he was rejected for military service, so not a war veteran. Can you hold off on the speculation until more facts are known.

The following is lifted from cdnvic's link.

"But an Army official told Fox News Loughner attempted to enlist in the Army in December 2008 but was denied.

The Army provided this statement:

"The Army has confirmed that the suspect was never in the Army. He attempted to enlist in the Army but was rejected for service. In accordance with the Privacy Act, we will not discuss why he was rejected."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/08/shooting-suspects-apparent-youtube-video/#ixzz1AVfMbNkY

[TAWP]

A senseless act, condolences to all victims.

[slapout]

Condolences to the victims and those affected. The posts on this topic do underscore the rabid innuendo, rumors, and in some cases spastic garbage than can be presented to the public by individuals who have a axe to grind. Many of us forget "just the facts " should be the most sought after info.

[happyrobert]

"Dead...not dead....dead.....not dead - right-wing....left-wing....tea party, clearly insane, clearly politically motivated".....blah, blah, blah, woof, woof. You people speculate more than a gynecologist! You should be 'talking heads' on cable news, you'd fit right in. Why don't you shut up and wait for the facts instead of making them up? Make you feel important? It's a drag having to sift through all your superfluous, redundant nonsense to get a single tid-bit of fact.

[DP25]

As far as the shooter's political views being in synch with typical tea party positions, watch the video until the end, and you will likely see my point!

He doesn't HAVE any political views, he's just insane. Tea partiers don't generally deny god and burn the American flag on film. He talks a lot about mind control and using grammar to brainwash people, and his list of favorite books includes those from Communists and Nazis and whatever else was on his high school reading list that he never actually read. He's a nutcase and hopefully Arizona will execute him for murder.

[Jingthing]

As far as the shooter's political views being in synch with typical tea party positions, watch the video until the end, and you will likely see my point!

He doesn't HAVE any political views, he's just insane. Tea partiers don't generally deny god and burn the American flag on film. He talks a lot about mind control and using grammar to brainwash people, and his list of favorite books includes those from Communists and Nazis and whatever else was on his high school reading list that he never actually read. He's a nutcase and hopefully Arizona will execute him for murder.

You can be both insane AND have political views. He also had self awareness that he was set to become a political terrorist. See 2:51 on the video. Note that the authorities are not yet convinced that he acted alone. That obviously makes a difference in how this is going to be viewed.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Jingthing

[neverdie]

Can you hold off on the speculation until more facts are known.

Some people seem to think just because somethings reported in the media, that it becomes fact , god help us.

ps: RIP to the deceased & I hope the congresswoman recovers, although injuries like that arnt always best to recover from.

Edited January 9, 2011 by neverdie

[Jingthing]

This is a discussion board, and it is normal and natural discuss information as it flows from the media. That isn't the same thing as fully accepting things as facts.

[coma]

This is a discussion board, and it is normal and natural discuss information as it flows from the media. That isn't the same thing as fully accepting things as facts.

Latest report from Fox News is that the Congresswomen is responsive and talking. Note: Fox New Report ONLY.

However i pray for her that this information is correct.

[JUDAS]

Just announced on Fox that the Congress Woman is conscious and talking. Good news !

[Jingthing]

The sheriff is also reporting that they are convinced the congresswoman was the main target. If true, I am sorry, this was a political action, however insanely motivated.

[JUDAS]

Hospital now stating "very optimistic" for her recovery.

[Ulysses G.]

As far as the shooter's political views being in synch with typical tea party positions, watch the video until the end, and you will likely see my point!

I watched it "to the end" the first time and interpreting his insane ramblings as having anything to do with "right wing" or 'left wing" is nonsense. You are seeing what you want to see.

[mca]

Just announced on Fox that the Congress Woman is conscious and talking. Good news !

Just announced on Fox that Bill O'Reilly is conscious and talking. Bad news !

Edited January 9, 2011 by mca

[cdnvic]

I did post a warning about turning this into a political soapbox. Now someone has lost his posting rights. Without even letting the facts all come out people have been pointing fingers at third parties in an attempt to back up their own well known and well worn political agendas. We're not going to let this forum become a soapbox. If you can't have a reasoned discussion just be quiet and read. It always seems to be the same small group causing most of the aggravation in this area of the forum and patience is wearing thin.

[coma]

Has anyone got any information on why the police believe that the shooter had an accompice at all? Keep hearing they are looking for a 50 year old accomplice but nothing as to why they have come to this conclusion.

[RKASA]

Has anyone got any information on why the police believe that the shooter had an accompice at all? Keep hearing they are looking for a 50 year old accomplice but nothing as to why they have come to this conclusion.

The police statement I heard said they are interested in a person, but did not want to say anything at this time about it. I would guess that is why no followup on it. I guess it is because he may have nothing to do with it other then he dropped the person off without knowing his plans or something like that. If that is the case jumping on calling him an accomplice or being part of it is law suite city for them.

This kind of guy may not qualify for a drivers license if he has been on med's for scitsofania etc. His mind control remarks remind me of a person I know that started putting tin foil in his helmet - he was sure the cell phone towers are used to read minds. He was called to active during the first gulf war and we though he was kidding around. Had to go down to a navy pair and pick him up as he was trying to get them to do a fire exercise on the cell phone towers in the area and they were holding him at the gate. Turns out he ran out of med's after being called to active and had been getting them local at his own expense so the government would not discharge him from the reserve unit and lose his retirement - when the med's ran out he flipped out. To bad because before that - he was kind of fun to have around.

[metisdead]

An off topic post and reply to it have been removed from view.

[Credo]

The shooter apparently had some run-ins with the law. Does anyone know what these were and why he was able to buy a weapon (if it was bought by him)?

Any word on the possible accomplice?

[hammered]

Unfortunately this is not surprising

Luckily it seems in this case that the target has survived.

[TAWP]

It isn't likely she was a target in the sense of being an important target for some underground movement - as she was clearly not the main target of the bullets.

This is a confused individual that tried to become famous and possibly due to some mental issues rationalized why this person, today, was a 'target'.

[jayjay0]

OK, the shooter is definitely insane. Now he will be getting lots and lots of attention from mental health professionals.

There are also right wing tea party flavored political comments in his video, but he is clearly extremely disturbed and irrational. He certainly has set the stage for an insanity defense.

Is there any printed script of this suposed video. God I hate u tube.

[RKASA]

It isn't likely she was a target in the sense of being an important target for some underground movement - as she was clearly not the main target of the bullets.

This is a confused individual that tried to become famous and possibly due to some mental issues rationalized why this person, today, was a 'target'.

Agree - she was the one in town and that was maybe the main reason. Lucky for others they didn't have a meeting or it could have just as well been them. Reagen was the target of his attack - but it was not the obsessive DNC operatives that did it in spite of the fact I could spin volumes with things they had said and done before hand.

Besides he was shooting at everything and doing as much damage as he could - if it was just her he would have stopped at her.

This is more columbine like and senseless, he wanted to reload - he never planned on leaving alive.

[geriatrickid]

Robert Mueller, The Director of the FBI, and Clarence Dupnik, the Sheriff of Pima County have both identified the Congresswoman as the specific target. Her offices were previously vandalized although there is no link demonstrated to the mass shooting.

The accused assailant Jared Lee Loughner was never accepted into the military. He was refused on the basis of his drug use. Mr. Loughner may have described himself as a military recruit, but he was not. In his online postings,and with others at the local community college where he sometimes attended classes, he has been described as expressing hatred and contempt for all levels of government. These views share more in common with Tea party adherents than any other group in the USA.

A U.S. Federal Judge was murdered as well as several of the Congresswoman's staffers. This makes it a federal crime.

The Sheriff made two statements which I found impressive, if only for their honesty and integrity.

-Back when he started out as a beat cop 40 years ago, mentally ill people that were considered dangerous were incarcerted at state facilities. Today they are walking around and the costs to society are evident.

- The hate filled political rhetoric that fills U.S. airwaves is heavily implicated in the event. The vitriolic hate speech filled with exagerations and misrepresentaions encourages violence and a contempt and distrust for government and its institutions.

The Sheriff is no leftie. The Congresswoman can hardly be considered a leftie. She's maried to a USN Captain and astronaut that's scheduled to fly the last space shuttle mission. These two people represent some of the better qualities of the USA; Honesty and integrity. It's something the miserable petty pricks of U.S. talk radio and TV lack.

[cdnvic]

Off topic comments, mostly wild accusations, and replies deleted.

[losworld]

Guy's a wacko period! Nothing more to say really. Stating he is left or right brings nothing to the argument. Plain and simple he is insane. Case closed. However, the case for access to handguns in the US should be looked at more closely. It's one thing to allow rifles but handguns are so dangerous because they can be concealed so easily.

[losworld]

As far as the shooter's political views being in synch with typical tea party positions, watch the video until the end, and you will likely see my point!

He doesn't HAVE any political views, he's just insane. Tea partiers don't generally deny god and burn the American flag on film. He talks a lot about mind control and using grammar to brainwash people, and his list of favorite books includes those from Communists and Nazis and whatever else was on his high school reading list that he never actually read. He's a nutcase and hopefully Arizona will execute him for murder.

You can be both insane AND have political views. He also had self awareness that he was set to become a political terrorist. See 2:51 on the video. Note that the authorities are not yet convinced that he acted alone. That obviously makes a difference in how this is going to be viewed.

Political terrorist what the hell is that? Terrorist this, terrorist that... let's stop the ridiculous double talk. The guy was a delusional insane psychopath but a political terrorist? Are they hiding in caves and cells too?

[Pakboong]

The shooter apparently worked as a staffer on two of her campaigns. They also subscribe to each other's U-Tube sites.

[koheesti]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/2011/01/jared-loughners-behavior-recor.html?hpid=topnews

Jared Loughner's behavior recorded by college classmate in e-mails

From June 1, the first day of class:

"One day down and nineteen to go. We do have one student in the class who was disruptive today, I'm not certain yet if he was on drugs (as one person surmised) or disturbed. He scares me a bit. The teacher tried to throw him out and he refused to go, so I talked to the teacher afterward. Hopefully he will be out of class very soon, and not come back with an automatic weapon."

From June 10:

"As for me, Thursday means the end to week two of algebra class. It seems to be going by quickly, but then I do have three weeks to go so we'll see how I feel by then. Class isn't dull as we have a seriously disturbed student in the class, and they are trying to figure out how to get rid of him before he does something bad, but on the other hand, until he does something bad, you can't do anything about him. Needless to say, I sit by

the door."

From June 14:

"We have a mentally unstable person in the class that scares the living crap out of me. He is one of those whose picture you see on the news, after he has come into class with an automatic weapon. Everyone interviewed would say, Yeah, he was in my math class and he was really weird. I sit by the door with my purse handy. If you see it on the news one night, know that I got out fast..."

The class's instructor, Ben McGahee, said in an interview Sunday that Loughner had been removed from class in its third or fourth week, because of repeated disruptions.

Edited January 9, 2011 by koheesti

[Englander]

You can be both insane AND have political views.

Your confession has been noted.

Edited January 9, 2011 by Englander