What Do We Want Our Cameras For?

[MJP]

I was so inspired by this thread that I raced out to the Camera shop yesterday and bought a new speedlight & its a real cracker. TY very much :jap: .

Mee thinks astral is right!

Oh, Astral's 100% spot on. Bang on!

I just can't be bothered driving to Khon Kaen right now. Becoming sessile.

[THAIPHUKET]

What I think is optimal in a camera is great image clarity and a file size which can print un-interpolated an 11x14 at 300dpi. I think it is a shame how many current cameras hide behind megapixel counts and produce noisy images. As for priorities, I would accept a smaller pixel count for a cleaner image any day. But not too small

Can you pls translate 11x14 print at 300dpi.into a camera equivalent formula, pixel density and/ or other.

Or perhaps simpler= minimum sensor requirement

[canuckamuck]

What I think is optimal in a camera is great image clarity and a file size which can print un-interpolated an 11x14 at 300dpi. I think it is a shame how many current cameras hide behind megapixel counts and produce noisy images. As for priorities, I would accept a smaller pixel count for a cleaner image any day. But not too small

Can you pls translate 11x14 print at 300dpi.into a camera equivalent formula, pixel density and/ or other.

Or perhaps simpler= minimum sensor requirement

That would be 3300 x 4200 pixels at 300 pixels per inch or 13.8 Mega Pixels(if my calculation is correct).

But if the image is nearly noise free you can do amazing things with a much smaller size.

2400 x 3000 produces an 8x10 at 300 Pixels per inch and is only 7.2 MP. This is likely usable for almost any application except some high end commercial print. Once again that is if the image has very low noise.

[THAIPHUKET]

Very helpful! And a recipe for low noise? No going beyond 100 ISO to be on the save side?

PS In this context the NY Times article from David Pogue is interesting

http://goo.gl/n0wep

Edited January 19, 2011 by THAIPHUKET

[IanForbes]

NOISE? I don't want to LISTEN to the fricken picture. I just want to LOOK at it. :lol:

How our verbal technology has changed in the past 20 years or more.

I have a high end scanner at home in Canada and it scans slides at an incredible 5200 dpi. Unfortuantely, at that point the photo shows every scratch and crack in the picture. It also shows all the noise in what LOOKED to be a perfectly good slide under a 20 power glass. It takes me hours of Photoshop just to turn the slide into a useable digital image. And, that is WITH using the Photoshop program to elimenate clutter.

Edited January 19, 2011 by IanForbes

[astral]

A definition.

In both analog and digital electronics, noise is an unwanted perturbation to a wanted signal; it is called noise as a generalisation of the audible noise heard when listening to a weak radio transmission. Signal noise is heard as acoustic noise if played through a loudspeaker; it manifests as 'snow' on a television or video image. Noise can block, distort, change or interfere with the meaning of a message in human, animal and electronic communication.

My dedicated film/slide scanner does not have any glass interface.

If you are referring to the glass mount for the slide,

maybe you should dismount it before scanning?

[THAIPHUKET]

@

IanForbes + canuckamuck

what features are really important to you today in a camera yielding a salable output ?

minum/ maximum focal lens in in 35mm equivalent?

Minimum f stop

swivel LCD?

other

[canuckamuck]

@

IanForbes + canuckamuck

what features are really important to you today in a camera yielding a salable output ?

minum/ maximum focal lens in in 35mm equivalent?

Minimum f stop

swivel LCD?

other

The cameras I prefer don't have a fixed lens, but if we are talking about that, personally I would like to know how the image quality was rated by some tech sites, I really like swivel LCD's, and for me maximum width and lowest f stop is more important than zoom. But that is because I prefer to get close instead of zooming, that being said, some zoom is useful too.

I also like to have a viewfinder, LCD often sucks outside and I often feel like a tool taking a picture with my face 15 inches away from the camera

I am hoping that eventually 800 ISO will be as clean as 100. I would love it if we got a new generation of ultra low light cameras.

[Whale]

@

IanForbes + canuckamuck

what features are really important to you today in a camera ................... ?

For my own type of photography........I look at...

1. Size, weight

2. ISO performance

and these are the deal breakers, that without I would not buy.....

wired remote shutter, AF-ON mode, auto bracket, zoom on pic review, RAW, SLR, min 12 MP

[THAIPHUKET]

For me the most liberating tool is the swivel screen. None of these shots taken in South Africa would have been --that easily-- possible.

All taken with a Canon G6 about 35-90 mm equivalent. The lions must have been very close, given this shot was taken at 90mm.

Leaning slowly out of the jeep holding the camera as close to the ground as possible the swivel allowed this composition.

http://goo.gl/RJfrn

http://goo.gl/NBA1S

http://goo.gl/zeGKP

http://goo.gl/PNtht

http://goo.gl/1F71o

[THAIPHUKET]

Back to the subject What............for???

While in Europe, I sold my photos through personal contact only, few made it into bill boards, some became collectors items, some illustrate office walls. My concept was to know, to translate what the potential client wanted. A one time sale, mostly. A rather limiting approach. Ian's Forbes sold word/article jointly with his photos and he sold manyfold to magazines, etc.

Here in Thailand we are not allowed even to volunteer without a work permit, ergo=

What............for??? I wouldn't mind to try stock photography to earn a little money.

Just taking photos for my personal pleasure and files is not enough

I guess the main technical criteria to meet I can find somewhere and they have been mentioned in this post. But please have a look at your successful sales/shots, this is obviously not limited to Ian.

How often was the ability to determine a shallow field of depth instrumental to the success of a photo?

While I like the 24mm view because it lets the eye and brain wander in a story like a painting of

Hironimus Bosch "Earthly delights" http://goo.gl/Miy5i

but I guess what is more in demand for stock photos is a shallow field of depth.

Our attention span is getting shorter and shorter, no leisurely wandering in a print, the visual message beam must be BANG ON.

If my hypothesis is correct is the answer to What............for??? not a bigger sensor like now in the CanonS95 or a Micro Four Thirds camera as a minimum outfit for successful sales in stock photography??

[THAIPHUKET]

What do we want our cameras for= Shooting instantly with high quality output.

With dramatic speed new and better cameras come out every day. A while ago The New Times pronounced the Canon S95 the best point and shoot, saying as a hedge.........for the next 6 months.

It didn't take that long = Olympus XZ1 seems to be the best now

http://goo.gl/BQpFJ

Quote DigitalReview

The XZ-1 steps in towards the more compact end of this spectrum and does a great job of balancing flexibility with pocketabilty. Not only does it offer a very versatile lens range (28-112mm equivalent), but it does so with a maximum aperture that can't be matched. At F1.8-2.5 it's brighter at every point than either the Panasonic or Samsung, and is in a completely different league to the F2.0-4.9 offered by the Canon S95 to which it's otherwise so similar.

............... In fact, many people considering a mirrorless interchangeable lens camera may find they're better served by the XZ-1, if they're not serious about buying additional lenses.

Unquote DigitalReview

What for? = instantaneous shooting I said.

What I want now is no long zooms 18-1200mm at dismal aperture I want a 2nd dedicated camera for the instant shot -----starting where XZ1 left off, say at 100mm up to 300mm with a wide open aperture of f...? Everything in this camera is tuned to this focal length in particular the option of manually changing the focal length. No more tedious motorized zooming with no ability of fast and accurate framing.

That is my vision. That would be worth money to me.

TP

[THAIPHUKET]

I think somethings are going crazy here

http://goo.gl/9VsBT

has anyone tried to hold steady with outstrechted arms looking through a LCD

a 400mm leave alone a 800mm lens ? Or tried to follow a child, a car or horse in motion?

QUOTE Sony

Despite their powerful zoom range, DSC-HX100V and DSC-HX9V can capture crisp, blur-free images with significantly reduced handshake, even while you’re walking along. Featured on both cameras, Optical SteadyShot™ with Active Mode image stabilization is a powerful image stabilization system with ‘3-way shake cancellation’ as found on premium Handycam® camcorders by Sony. You’ll be rewarded with clearer results when you’re shooting handheld, even at telephoto settings where camera shake is most pronounced.

UNQUOTE

The shot may be blur-free thanks to technology but you will hit the desired target..?????????........... perhaps with the view finder

• 0.2" (0.5cm) EVF

• FLC (Ferroelectric Liquid Crystal)

• 201,600 pixels

I stand to be corrected

[IanForbes]

Lots of good information here so far. It's amazing to see so many brilliant amateurs getting maximum value from their cameras... and yet demanding more. My next door neighbour in Canada has made his whole life career selling photos to stock companies. He tells me it gets harder and harder each year because amateurs can purchase cameras that far exceed the ones that were once available to only professional photographers.

[THAIPHUKET]

It is breathtaking, I can't believe it, when I said a few days before mockingly I don't want a 18-1000 mm equivalent lens I thought, I am really talking almost about something unachievable.

Well, we are almost there= Nikon - super wide-angle 22.5mm to a staggering 810mm !!!

http://goo.gl/DKhK3

Next step would be an f2 throughout however after a built-in polarization filter

With these heavy barrages of new cameras coming out every day the effect on me is to postpone buying a new one and see what's up next. And on you??

What are you waiting for??

Plus I wonder what this will do to the inventories of the dealers. They can't sell quickly enough their stock, i.e prices must come down even more rapidly.

[hughden]

It is breathtaking, I can't believe it, when I said a few days before mockingly I don't want a 18-1000 mm equivalent lens I thought, I am really talking almost about something unachievable.

Well, we are almost there= Nikon - super wide-angle 22.5mm to a staggering 810mm !!!

http://goo.gl/DKhK3

Next step would be an f2 throughout however after a built-in polarization filter

With these heavy barrages of new cameras coming out every day the effect on me is to postpone buying a new one and see what's up next. And on you??

What are you waiting for??

Plus I wonder what this will do to the inventories of the dealers. They can't sell quickly enough their stock, i.e prices must come down even more rapidly.

With such a wide zoom range, the one thing you can be assured of is that the image quality will be poor. A nice toy for holiday snaps perhaps, but not much else.

[IanForbes]

With such a wide zoom range, the one thing you can be assured of is that the image quality will be poor. A nice toy for holiday snaps perhaps, but not much else.

Which goes right back to the original question of what do we want our photographs for. Certainly if you are marketing them to a stock photo outlet then you'll want the best equipment possible. But, 95% of the people just want a nice picture that they can blow up to about 10" by 14" and they don't worry if it isn't tacky sharp. I've had hundreds of photos published in magazines that were not crystal clear. But, they suited the purpose of the magazine because of content. Cover shots are a little more critical, but if the image is unique it can be published.

But, most of us are our own worst critic. We want perfection and some of us are willing to pay for it.

I'd love to see what that lens could do. I use an 18 by 200 lens on my Nikon and it's okay for snapshots, but I can see imperfections when compared to the high end lenses used for specific purposes. Most of us don't want to carry a tripod and huge camera lens just for every day pictures.

[neverdie]

With such a wide zoom range, the one thing you can be assured of is that the image quality will be poor. A nice toy for holiday snaps perhaps, but not much else.

SPOT ON.

Recently had a friend with his super duper prosumer which had some amazing range, can't remember what it was something like a zoom of 1mm to 1000mm & it virtually did everything from drive the car to cook lunch. Anyway, he had a play with our new 70-200mm VRII & we took some simple shots at 200mm on both cameras & downloaded them onto his PC for viewing. The shots were like chalk & cheese, although once everything such as cost is factored in, it was indeed quite an impressive camera for happy snaps. If that sort of thing makes you happy, I say GO FOR IT, each to their own, but to suggest people throw away their FX cameras & high end lenses & proceed directly to the prosumer market DAY is now upon us, I don't think so.

People like to point this sort of stuff out, but the technology at the higher end of the market isnt exactly sitting still either & I would imagine we will see some fairly impressive FX cameras (perhaps mirrorless) being released in the very NEAR FUTURE from both Cannon and Nikon & the bar will be raised again......this process will never stop.

[THAIPHUKET]

As IanForbes stated- we may be at times our best enemy.

Canon a few days before announced

The CMOS-derived 'HS system' is claimed to lower noise levels by up to 60% at all ISO speeds.

http://goo.gl/pw2Xh

Yes, Canon, Nikon will have to answer the mirrorless challenge soon, exiting times.

And given the electronic possibilities of correcting lenses who knows where we'll end up.

Even sensors seem to able of replacing to some degree wide open lenses.

But as Ian said too, the mood of a shot is very often more gripping and therefore more marketable than the technically perfect shot. It's never the equipment.

Perhaps Ian or others want to show here a picture sold with minimal technical quality to make the point.

[edmartech]

I'm still using my Canon Digital Rebel (300D) and still satisfied.

[IanForbes]

But as Ian said too, the mood of a shot is very often more gripping and therefore more marketable than the technically perfect shot. It's never the equipment.

Perhaps Ian or others want to show here a picture sold with minimal technical quality to make the point.

These all made cover shots and were taken years ago. The underwater ones were taken with a simple waterproof housing on a point and shoot camera... before the digital age. They've all been reduced in quality and size because they are posted on an open gallery forum where anybody can down load them. It's not hard to tell what my interests are or what magazines I write for.

[AYJAYDEE]

i want my 40 year old pentax cameras and lenses for the pure enjoyment of trying to visualize how what is front of me will turn out if i do this, or that, or the other thing? and then making the decisions, shooting the B&W xp2 and scanning the negs. and for snapshots, my point and shoot is in my pocket. its a hobby and it makes me happy

[THAIPHUKET]

Geee, it's Nikon which tell us at long last what we need a camera for really=

For the furry member of the family, the COOLPIX L120 includes a Pet Portrait mode that helps capture the expressions and actions of dogs and cats automatically.

I will be curious to see the first cat expressing itself.

Suggest we'll have a smiling cats and dog competition on this forum next.

I also wonder what happens to a GF's smile if erroneously the camera is set to= DOGS & CATS

:blink::ermm::unsure::blink:

[wellred]

I've always wanted an SLR but it just wouldn't be practical for me carry around. I've always been a P&S guy but for my upcoming trip to Thailand I wanted something a bit better, something that is compact but has good IQ, so I just got myself a Panasonic GF2. Really looking forward to receiving this.

[IanForbes]

I've always wanted an SLR but it just wouldn't be practical for me carry around. I've always been a P&S guy but for my upcoming trip to Thailand I wanted something a bit better, something that is compact but has good IQ, so I just got myself a Panasonic GF2. Really looking forward to receiving this.

I don't think you'll be disappointed if from what others have told me about the GF2 is correct. I still do 90% of my SLR shooting with the camera on Program mode. I only experiment when I'm facing into the light instead of having it at my back. Or, during bright sunshine with high contrasting subjects.

[astral]

I still do 90% of my SLR shooting with the camera on Program mode. I only experiment when I'm facing into the light instead of having it at my back. Or, during bright sunshine with high contrasting subjects.

Guilty as well,

but I prefer Aperture Priority............

[hughden]

I've always wanted an SLR but it just wouldn't be practical for me carry around. I've always been a P&S guy but for my upcoming trip to Thailand I wanted something a bit better, something that is compact but has good IQ, so I just got myself a Panasonic GF2. Really looking forward to receiving this.

I have had a GF1 for the past eighteen months and it has been by far the most enjoyable camera I have ever owned. I am sure you will have a blast with the GF2. If you want to expand, there are almost an unlimited number of lenses you can stick on the front of it.

[wellred]

I've always wanted an SLR but it just wouldn't be practical for me carry around. I've always been a P&S guy but for my upcoming trip to Thailand I wanted something a bit better, something that is compact but has good IQ, so I just got myself a Panasonic GF2. Really looking forward to receiving this.

I have had a GF1 for the past eighteen months and it has been by far the most enjoyable camera I have ever owned. I am sure you will have a blast with the GF2. If you want to expand, there are almost an unlimited number of lenses you can stick on the front of it.

Yeah that's what I hear. I also heard the Olympus Zuiko lenses work with panny m4/3 cameras so I might pick up an extra lens before I go. I will get a 14mm so I just need a decent one for zoom. It's supposed to be coming tomorrow. I'm going to wimbledon on Thursday so want to test it out.

Edited June 27, 2011 by wellred

[hughden]

Panasonic and Olympus make micro 4/3 lenses and they can be used on any M4/3 body. If you want a long zoom, the Panasonic 100-300mm is very good.

Voigtlander make an exquisite 25mm f0.95 lens for M4/3.

In addition, you can buy adapters and fit almost any other lens. Hundreds of different lenses from film cameras to choose from; fun but dangerously addictive!

[wellred]

It arrived today, loving it so far. Still trying to get to grips with all the manual controls. Some bits are a bit confusing. Like for instance if I want to capture something close up with some background blur, my natural inclination would be to use a low F number but there is a scene mode specifically for this. I guess Panny are trying to blur the lines between consumer and enthusiast. Anyway im enjoying it so far. I will post some pictures from Wimbledon tomorrow.