DTAC Gears Up For 3G Test Run In Bangkok

[webfact]

DTAC Gears Up for 3G Test Run

Telecom operator DTAC will be offering trial services for third-generation, or 3G, mobile phone service in Bangkok in the third quarter of this year.

Thana Thienachariya, the executive vice president for Corporate Affairs and Chief Strategy Officer of Total Access Communication company, or DTAC, is expecting that it will take a long time to fully establish the National Broadcasting and Telecommunications Commission, or NBTC.

He is concerned that the delay will be an obstacle to growth in the telecommunications industry, which is an important industry to the country.

Thana added that DTAC is preparing to offer its third-generation, or 3G phone service on a trial basis in Bangkok.

The service is expected to be available in the third quarter of this year.

DTAC won approval by the board of CAT Telecom company at the end of December last year to run a trial 3G service on the 850 MHz spectrum using High Speed Data Packet Access technology at 1,220 base stations.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-20

[woodyleonhard]

This is the same technology, using the same provider (CAT), that True has had for almost a year. DTAC's awfully late to the party.

I thought DTAC had HSPA running in BKK, specifically to support 3G access on the iPhones that it's selling. Anybody know the details?

[jfchandler]

This is the only thing I've seen from DTAC regarding their past 3G trial, which was very limited... Whether those base stations are still running 3G, I don't know...

http://www.dtac.co.t...eng/news/3g.php

Their current data info on their web site appears to only reference their GPRS/EDGE services...

http://www.dtac.co.th/2009/eng/network/gprs_edge.html

Edited January 21, 2011 by jfchandler

[lomatopo]

http://www.telegeography.com/cu/article.php?article_id=35662

Wednesday, 29 December 2010

CAT allows DTAC, True to expand 3G trials; DTAC to be given commercial nod

The board of state-owned CAT Telecom has approved plans for private sector mobile operators Digital Total Access Communication (DTAC) and True Move to expand their number of cell sites for 3G operations in the 850MHz frequency band. Both DTAC and True currently provide wireless services under build-transfer-operate (BTO) concessions granted by CAT, and are required to pay a percentage of their revenues to the government-owned telco. CAT's board has said that True Move may construct 1,400 additional cell sites and DTAC 1,220 more sites to expand trial 3G mobile services. The new announcement comes after DATC petitioned the government last month to intervene in what it described as unfair treatment by CAT. DATC chief executive, Tore Johnsen, said that CAT had only allowed DATC 36 sites for its HSPA trial service while True Move had over 600 sites.

FWIW DTAC requested this expansion in 2009.

[jfchandler]

I'm a bit confused by the government giving permission to True and DTAC to expand their current 850 Mhz 3G systems...

Because, I thought the broader government plan (bidding and now postponed license auctions) was to develop a nationwide 3G network operating on the 2100 Mhz band...

So what's the long term plan here?

DTAC and True are going to continue and build out their own 850 Mhz 3G systems into the future, while TOT et al build out the 2100 Mhz 3G band? Meaning the country will end up with two different nationwide 3G service bands...

Or somewhere, somehow, after spending a lot to expand their 3G services on the 850 Mhz band, are DTAC and True somehow going to transition their 3G offerings to the 2100 Mhz band in the longer term?

[SomTumTiger]

I would say this fall under the "who gives a sh$t" category

[SomTumTiger]

I would say this fall under the "who gives a sh$t" category

[powderpuff]

Or somewhere, somehow, after spending a lot to expand their 3G services on the 850 Mhz band, are DTAC and True somehow going to transition their 3G offerings to the 2100 Mhz band in the longer term?

You assume there is a "plan". Big mistake. It's ad hoc.

Many generations of politicians & breaucrats still to come who need to enrich themselves.

[pacovl46]

This is the same technology, using the same provider (CAT), that True has had for almost a year. DTAC's awfully late to the party.

I thought DTAC had HSPA running in BKK, specifically to support 3G access on the iPhones that it's selling. Anybody know the details?

That's because DTAC is not Thai owned, and neither is AIS, and therefore they were not allowed to offer a 3G service so the Thais can rake in all the profits for themselves!

[MaiChai]

There is NO PLAN because nobody knows what is going to happen. Thus only solution is to offer 'a trial' like True until something happens, and it could be a long time until something happens. Things happen in Thailand behind closed doors by mysterious people who are obviously in control. At least a 3g service then becomes available, even if only temporary, and there is two vendors to choose from.

Make sure you buy a phone that can do 3g on 850mhz! That is, look closely at the specs. 850mhz is non standard so most 3g phones don't work on 850mhz.

[jfchandler]

I had an older Nokia phone bought in the U.S. that only handled 2100 Mhz 3G when I moved here...

When I went to update to a new model phone a year or so ago, one of my main criteria was to pick a model that at least handled both 850 and 2100 Mhz 3G... and there aren't a whole lot of models that do that...

But the one I ended up selecting does, and I'm glad I made that choice, considering the way things go here... I didn't get it, but the Nokia E72 is one of the more widely available models that handles all of the available 3G bands.

[Crushdepth]

I just wish they'd stop making announcements about 3G. They *still don't have a license*. And they've been talking about 3G since 2004.

Credibility: Zero.

[woodyleonhard]

This is the only thing I've seen from DTAC regarding their past 3G trial, which was very limited... Whether those base stations are still running 3G, I don't know...

Fascinating.

So it appears as if DTAC has been selling iPhones that only get "3G" HSPA service in a very tiny footprint, and only in Bangkok proper.

[woodyleonhard]

I'm a bit confused by the government giving permission to True and DTAC to expand their current 850 Mhz 3G systems...

Because, I thought the broader government plan (bidding and now postponed license auctions) was to develop a nationwide 3G network operating on the 2100 Mhz band...

So what's the long term plan here?

DTAC and True are going to continue and build out their own 850 Mhz 3G systems into the future, while TOT et al build out the 2100 Mhz 3G band? Meaning the country will end up with two different nationwide 3G service bands...

Or somewhere, somehow, after spending a lot to expand their 3G services on the 850 Mhz band, are DTAC and True somehow going to transition their 3G offerings to the 2100 Mhz band in the longer term?

I don't think it's the government, per se, that's giving permission. Both CAT and TOT have concessions to offer HSPA service on 850 MHz. CAT has aggressively pursued their concession, first with True, now increasingly with DTAC. TOT seems to be mired in an older approach ("MVNO") that just didn't bring much 3G service. But there's lots of talk about TOT allowing other companies (notably AIS) to run HSPA on its 850 MHz spectrum.

It's anybody's guess at this point what will happen with 2.1 GHz. The slate's clean: there's no telling who's going to get concessions on that band. Lots of politics involved. So True and DTAC are running as fast as they can to get HSPA service rolled out at 850 MHz. (Remember that True is buying out Hutch, so the CAT CDMA spectrum is going to get re-purposed, too.) Heaven only knows what'll happen.

My favorite scenario: CAT and True put their heads together and get LTE ("4G") working at 850 MHz. They convert all of the HSPA and CDMA towers nationwide to LTE. (There are technical advantages to running at 850 MHz - fewer towers and switches and better coverage than 2.1 GHz.) And Thailand gets 4G before 3G is widely available.

If they play that card, it doesn't matter who gets the 2.1 GHz spectrum. With 4G on 850 MHz, True and CAT would roll over the market. It'd be cheap - the backhaul's already there, connecting towers to the backbone - and easy to install throughout all of CAT's infrastructure.

Two big questions: is LTE technology deployable at a reasonable cost? (I think we're seeing the answer's "yes", specifically in the US.) And, will customers pay for it? (My guess is not only yes, but h*ll yes - it'd be a tremendous status thing.)

Oh. Third question: do the higher-ups at CAT and True have the cojones to leapfrog the technology? It'd be quite a gamble.

IMHO, of course.

[woodyleonhard]

I would say this fall under the "who gives a sh$t" category

If you care about fast wireless internet access, it's a Big Deal. Really. The technical details are mind-numbing, but the results could put Thailand ahead of most of the world, and blow away Thailand's digital divide.

[woodyleonhard]

I just wish they'd stop making announcements about 3G. They *still don't have a license*. And they've been talking about 3G since 2004.

Credibility: Zero.

Sorry, that isn't true. There's HSPA ("3G") widely available, right now, throughout Bangkok, and in big chunks of the country around Bangkok. (Although, sadly, it's only available along the extreme west coast of Phuket.)

We're logging VERY fast speeds for HSPA in Phuket. As fast as wired connections - faster, in many cases.

You're getting confused with the 2.1 GHz spectrum auction. It's a bit hard to explain, but I draw an analogy between AM and FM radio. We can get "3G" on "AM" radio right now - that's what DTAC and True are doing with CAT. The government hasn't yet gotten its act together to offer "3G" on "FM" radio. I gave a talk about it at an IBAP meeting here in Phuket a couple of months ago: http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/articles/2010/article9437.html .

Bottom line: if you know what to ask for, Thailand most certainly DOES have 3G - and in some places it works very well.

[woodyleonhard]

Make sure you buy a phone that can do 3g on 850mhz! That is, look closely at the specs. 850mhz is non standard so most 3g phones don't work on 850mhz.

Very true. One of the guys at our last Computer Clinic meeting talked about his Samsung Galaxy. (I think it was a Galaxy 3, but may be wrong.) The phone gets HSPA/3G, but only at 900 MHz and 2.1 GHz. So even though he has a "3G" phone, it can't receive the 3G signal that's currently available in Thailand.

On the plus side, though, he can take his HSPA-activated True SIM card, slip it in a USB dongle, and get 3G on his PC. Kind of a consolation prize....

[jfchandler]

TOT seems to be mired in an older approach ("MVNO") that just didn't bring much 3G service. But there's lots of talk about TOT allowing other companies (notably AIS) to run HSPA on its 850 MHz spectrum.

Woody, I agree with a lot of what you've said above, and it's an interesting perspective... But I don't agree about your assessment of TOT...

For the past year, I've been using TOT's 3G service in Bangkok via their MVNO relationship with I-Mobile... And I've had a good experience with it, and it's relatively cheap, at 199 baht per month postpay for 199 minutes of calls and 199 MB of data.

I get pretty good reception with it all around Bangkok using it for Internet access with a Nokia smart phone (not as my primary Internet service). And others here on TV have signed up directly with TOT and likewise have generally had good things to say about the 3G service...

The only downside is TOT/I-Mobile's 3G coverage on 2100 Mhz is currently limited just to Bangkok. And at least under my I-Mobile plan, when I travel outside of Bangkok, the phone service roams (no extra charge) to AIS and there's no data service (3G or GPRS/EDGE) period.

That's why, of course, I keep the second mobile with a True SIM (129 baht a month) that can access True's 3G network when in Bangkok and their GPRS/EDGE/Wifi network when outside Bangkok, along with billed per use calling of course.

I know there's supposed to be some other MVNO's in partnership with TOT for their 3G service, and I've seen/read their company names in the past. But I've never actually seen any of the others offering that service other than I-Mobile.

[jfchandler]

CAT has aggressively pursued their concession, first with True, now increasingly with DTAC.

Actually, as I recall it, in the latter part of last year, there were news reports that CAT supposedly had ordered True to halt 3G service on the 850 Mhz band (that coming at the time the big push was on to do the 2100 Mhz licenses). But after that all fell apart, apparently, CAT reversed course and now has approved True's plans to expand its 3G footprint...

And regarding AIS, ya, they've been knocking on TOT's door for a long time...and no one seems to want to let them in, for fear granting them access to TOT's 3G network would swamp its service capacity... And lately, I haven't heard anything re AIS on the 3G subject.... other than the talk that the Thai government might be considering yanking Singtel's mobile concession.

Trying to keep up with this stuff, and figure out where the train's going, is enough to give anyone a major headache.

[worldfun]

Just buy the Wellcom A88 @ 9k bt supporting 850, 1900 & 2100mhz HSPA/3G/WCDMA.

It even comes with a free 50bt credit True Move SIM lol!

And noone covers as many areas as True - not even the lousy'n'expensive TOT 3G providers... All info on Their web since ages too

I had an older Nokia phone bought in the U.S. that only handled 2100 Mhz 3G when I moved here...

When I went to update to a new model phone a year or so ago, one of my main criteria was to pick a model that at least handled both 850 and 2100 Mhz 3G... and there aren't a whole lot of models that do that...

But the one I ended up selecting does, and I'm glad I made that choice, considering the way things go here... I didn't get it, but the Nokia E72 is one of the more widely available models that handles all of the available 3G bands.

[woodyleonhard]

For the past year, I've been using TOT's 3G service in Bangkok via their MVNO relationship with I-Mobile... And I've had a good experience with it, and it's relatively cheap, at 199 baht per month postpay for 199 minutes of calls and 199 MB of data.

I didn't realize that! My experience here in Phuket with MVNOs is that they don't exist. Many places will sell you MVNO SIM cards, but there's no HSPA signal over TOT, thus no 3G on the MVNO connections.

Glad to hear that at least one MVNO is working out! Here, they're all rip-offs, far as I know.

[jfchandler]

As far as I know, the TOT/I-Mobile 3G service on 2100 Mhz is only available in Bangkok...for the past year or so...

It's True on the 850 Mhz band that's had their 3G running in BKK and several other tourist-oriented areas...

[MaiChai]

We got ripped off with the I-Mobile 3g that we cancelled. We signed up for the 599baht monthly service and the first bill was a wopping 1600 baht! We did not overuse and I-Mobile could not tell us why it was so expensive other than we have to pay it ! So we cancelled. Three months later we received threatening letters saying we owed 1400 baht more for a 'service guarentee' something or other. So went back again, and they told us again we has to pay it! This time my girlfriend took the managers name and said she would come back and hold this manager personally responsible if the service was still active somehow. The person after us had exactly the same issue! Conclusion: don't sign up for postpaid services in Thailand; go prepaid if possible. Otherwise you are at the mercy of government run organisations, and who can you complain too if they rip you off?

After searching the market I bought a Wellcom A88 too. I am actually running Cyanogenmod 6.1.2, which is Andriod 2.2. However the standard firmware running Andriod 2.1 is fine. The lcd is knowhere as good as my 2008 HTC Dream/G1, but the chipset is much faster. Overall its a good comprise at a reasonable price, especially since we don't know what is going to happen.

I also work in tech having worked for ARM before and also mobile infrastructure (mobile internet/wap/mms/etc including work in the past for operators in Thailand).

I am currently writing this on my A88. I am an Andriod fan, being from a linux/unix background

Edited January 22, 2011 by MaiChai

[jfchandler]

Mai Chai, how is the photo image quality from the camera on the A88?

About I-Mobile, as I said, I've had their postpaid 3G service for the past year... Their English customer support appears to be almost non-existent... But, in all those months, the bills I've received have been accurate and never had any usage overcharges beyond my 199 MB monthly plan.

That said, I'm using the I-Mobile service on an older Nokia smart phone that is set to NOT pull down any data except when I specifically initiate it, like opening a web browser... No automatic popping of e-mail... No IM conversations... No streaming video....

On the other hand, a few months back when I got a new 850/2100 Mhz WinMo 6.1 Pro smart phone, I spent a lot of time setting it up and installing the applications I wanted, etc... and was using a True SIM with a 15 hour monthly allotment of 3G....

Somehow, unbeknownst to me, it quickly ran past my 15 hour limit in less than half the month, and then began accruing extra charges beyond that....until I happened to stop using the phone and switch back to my Nokia as my main phone. By the time it was done, it had rung up 600 baht or so of extra data charges for that month beyond my basic True plan...

I later ended up looking at a detailed printout of the times and durations of my data pulls that month...and it showed the phone connecting to the data network like every 5-10 minutes for a couple of minutes duration each time... Start multiplying that times 24 hours in a day, and the bill starts adding up real fast...

I'm not entirely sure what was doing all those data pulls, except it may have been the Windows settings for popping email that I had set at one point in the process... I paid the bill, but I also changed the default data settings in the phone's email software.

[jayjay0]

I would say this fall under the "who gives a sh$t" category

What the #$&^@#$ is this test run. the world has tested it and found it OK accept that and move on.

At the rate they are going 4G will be up and running nation wide in Burma before Thailand gets 3G.

[MaiChai]

Camera on A88 on the Andriod 2.1 stock rom takes over exposed/poor quality pictures. On cyanogenmod 6.1.2 the camera is broken, however there is a patch package for this, which when applied works, in which case the camera takes excellent photos, especially in poor light with the flashlight. Ok not as good as a digital camera, but how many phones are? The great thing about this rom is the power widget lets you choose between 3g and 2g without stepping through lots of menus. Now this works brilliant with True since their 50mb for 30 days gives you 50mb 3g AND 50mb 2g. So when you have used up your 3g allowance you than consume the 2g allowance. So in effect you get 100mb for 50baht on prepay that lasts 30 days.

Now regarding using up your allowance: only True seems to get it right. Dtac 100mb is used up very quickly on 2g; it cannot be right so i stopped using dtac. I think tot/imobile is the same; their metering of usage is incorrect too. I found 100mb would last a long time on Three in the UK so could not understand why its consumed so quickly in Thailand (apart from True). Since True is a major adsl player in Thailand I assume they know what they are doing, and the others don't (example: how can you meter internet usage in minutes since there is no communication when you read a web page and speed is dependant on signal strength/edge available/etc!!!). If you go prepay and the service does not work out for you its easy to get out of it. My True sim cost 99baht.

Trial is a face saving excuse to allow the service to operate At least we get some service. However you argue how can True sell a monthly subscription; 3g is not a guarenteed service; only edge/2g

Edited January 23, 2011 by MaiChai