Another Great Steakhouse Down The Drain ...

[mark45y]

I like my steak medium. However, if I am asked how I want my steak cooked then I would be most happy if everyone else minded their own business and cooked it that way. No questions, just do it. That's what I was asked and that's what I'm paying for. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

If I want the steak with the most fat on it, the least fat on it, waved over a flame for 10 seconds or charcoaled, that is my choice and I would rather you kept your idea of a perfect steak to yourself and cooked it the way I want it.

And I don't really care if the chef has a hissy fit about other orders being out of sequence, I am asked what I want and I order, that's what I expect to receive. We all have things in our work that we don't like, live with it.

I'm sure you have good intentions and ensure it is cooked to perfection, but that is YOUR perfection. I would rather you kept out of it and cooked it to MY liking.

I'm not one to complain if I don't like the food, I just never return.

I get your point. I think you are an average consumer in the West. It is obvious you are not a restaurant person.

To me every restaurant is an adventure. Be it big or small or expensive or cheap. There is excitement in the food business in my mind.

I never eat at a restaurant that has no customers. I would rather wait an hour for a table then get seated immediately. Why eat at a busy restaurant? Besides the obvious the food is fresher, the turnover more rapid.

I am never the last or the first customer in a restaurant. You want bad food and service, be the first or last customer. The first customer gets yesterdays food and the last gets stuff that probably should be thrown out.

Who knows more about his product, me or the owner? The owner obviously. If the lady wants to get on top let her get on top.

If I am in a new restaurant I watch the customers. I ask the waitress what is the biggest seller. There is a reason it is the biggest seller. I almost never go to a restaurant with a preconceived idea of what I want. I let the staff and situation determine that.

It is the same touring a group of bars. I don't want a short or tall one or an old or young one I want a good one.

Dining and women have a lot in common for me. Both can be a wonderful experience or end you up in the hospital.

[mark45y]

Yes that surprises me too. I would think they would lose quite a bit of custom not doing something like cooking a steak how the customer likes it. But I suppose if it goes well then they must be doing something right.

I worked for a large steakhouse chain (300 units) once upon a time. They had a five state region that was almost broke because of poor performance of the units in that area. I think they wanted to get rid of me (my charming personality I'm sure) and gave me that region to supervise. In 6 months I turned it around and it was one of the most profitable areas in the company. It was simple, I ignored everything else and taught the cooks to cook a steak medium rare. It is just a matter of percentages. 80% of customers order MR. Forget about rare and well done, they confuse cooks. Get medium rare correct 100% of the time and you will make money. Same with a wife. If she gets sex right she can keep a sloppy house or spend too much money on groceries. How many guys divorce a woman who is really good in bed every day?

[Wallaby]

I get your point. I think you are an average consumer in the West. It is obvious you are not a restaurant person.

To me every restaurant is an adventure. Be it big or small or expensive or cheap. There is excitement in the food business in my mind.

I never eat at a restaurant that has no customers. I would rather wait an hour for a table then get seated immediately. Why eat at a busy restaurant? Besides the obvious the food is fresher, the turnover more rapid.

I am never the last or the first customer in a restaurant. You want bad food and service, be the first or last customer. The first customer gets yesterdays food and the last gets stuff that probably should be thrown out.

Who knows more about his product, me or the owner? The owner obviously. If the lady wants to get on top let her get on top.

If I am in a new restaurant I watch the customers. I ask the waitress what is the biggest seller. There is a reason it is the biggest seller. I almost never go to a restaurant with a preconceived idea of what I want. I let the staff and situation determine that.

It is the same touring a group of bars. I don't want a short or tall one or an old or young one I want a good one.

Dining and women have a lot in common for me. Both can be a wonderful experience or end you up in the hospital.

What makes you think I don't go to restaurants often. You could be right though, I only go 3 times a week for lunches with clients and maybe only 2 nights per week. Though the lunches I don't pay for, the company pays for that, lucky me.

I have no doubt the owner knows more about the product, but he/she doesn't know how I like my food cooked, that's why they ask. If they think they know what is best then don't ask. If I don't like it then I won't return. If they ask how I want it and they don't do it, I won't return. If they ask how I want my steak and they cook it like that then I give repeat custom, it ain't rocket science, you ask then cook it how I want it.

I couldn't care less if the chef or owner thinks I'm an idiot for asking the steak to be cooked the way I like it. I'm paying for it so just do it. If you don't like it then tell me that you won't cook it that way and I'll be on my way, no problem.

'It is the same touring a group of bars. I don't want a short or tall one or an old or young one I want a good one. '

Well there you have it. You are saying what YOU want, not what the owner of a bar tells you what you SHOULD want. You like a bar for a particular reason. Using your analogy on steak you woudn't chose the one you like, you'd chose the one you that the owner tells you is good, whether you like it or not.

But in the end, it's my money, my choice. Too easy.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Wallaby

[yermanee]

Yes that surprises me too. I would think they would lose quite a bit of custom not doing something like cooking a steak how the customer likes it. But I suppose if it goes well then they must be doing something right.

It doesn't surprise me at all. And I'm not saying a steak shouldn't be cooked as the customer wants it.

I am saying if a customer orders something the chef is not willing or able to procure, then honesty is the best for both the resto and the client. One cannot reproach someone for being honest.

But again that's just me.

Yermanee

[Jingthing]

When I order medium rare in Thailand, I usually get rare, and I mean really way too rare, so I gave up and order medium here.

[mark45y]

I get your point. I think you are an average consumer in the West. It is obvious you are not a restaurant person.

To me every restaurant is an adventure. Be it big or small or expensive or cheap. There is excitement in the food business in my mind.

I never eat at a restaurant that has no customers. I would rather wait an hour for a table then get seated immediately. Why eat at a busy restaurant? Besides the obvious the food is fresher, the turnover more rapid.

I am never the last or the first customer in a restaurant. You want bad food and service, be the first or last customer. The first customer gets yesterdays food and the last gets stuff that probably should be thrown out.

Who knows more about his product, me or the owner? The owner obviously. If the lady wants to get on top let her get on top.

If I am in a new restaurant I watch the customers. I ask the waitress what is the biggest seller. There is a reason it is the biggest seller. I almost never go to a restaurant with a preconceived idea of what I want. I let the staff and situation determine that.

It is the same touring a group of bars. I don't want a short or tall one or an old or young one I want a good one.

Dining and women have a lot in common for me. Both can be a wonderful experience or end you up in the hospital.

What makes you think I don't go to restaurants often. You could be right though, I only go 3 times a week for lunches with clients and maybe only 2 nights per week. Though the lunches I don't pay for, the company pays for that, lucky me.

I have no doubt the owner knows more about the product, but he/she doesn't know how I like my food cooked, that's why they ask. If they think they know what is best then don't ask. If I don't like it then I won't return. If they ask how I want it and they don't do it, I won't return. If they ask how I want my steak and they cook it like that then I give repeat custom, it ain't rocket science, you ask then cook it how I want it.

I couldn't care less if the chef or owner thinks I'm an idiot for asking the steak to be cooked the way I like it. I'm paying for it so just do it. If you don't like it then tell me that you won't cook it that way and I'll be on my way, no problem.

'It is the same touring a group of bars. I don't want a short or tall one or an old or young one I want a good one. '

Well there you have it. You are saying what YOU want, not what the owner of a bar tells you what you SHOULD want. You like a bar for a particular reason. Using your analogy on steak you woudn't chose the one you like, you'd chose the one you that the owner tells you is good, whether you like it or not.

But in the end, it's my money, my choice. Too easy.

By restaurant person I meant you don't work in the restaurant business. Sorry I didn't mean you don't eat out a lot.

[mark45y]

When I order medium rare in Thailand, I usually get rare, and I mean really way too rare, so I gave up and order medium here.

Good point. If those darn Russians would stop ordering well done everybody else in Pattaya would order Med rare and you would get med rare regardless of what you ordered.

[luudee]

Lets remember that we are not talking about a whole in the wall place here. I always

thought of this place as one of top steak places in pattaya ...

At 1090++ baht for a 8oz Fillet, I would have expected it to be perfect. Again neither

Brunos or Royal Cliff messed up a steak. The lamb at both places is superb. This place

had it cooked wrong and it was not Grade A (980++ bhat) In my opinion this is unacceptable

and we will not be back.

When Dave was running this place he would stop by at least 2 times during a dinner

checking if everything is ok. Freddy does the same at Bruno's. The new owner at this

steak house was sitting in the lounge sipping drinks. Not once where we asked if the

food was ok. It's to bad as all the staff there knows me by name and I like them all ...

Cheers,

rudi

[Jingthing]

The burned steak may be the Thai concept of well done, to be fair to the cook (with that result, chef is too nice a word). That restaurant though is posing as a New York steak house, the meaning of well done to westerners should be understood by the kitchen there and/or they should reject such orders.

I have a related story about well done steak. My dad grew up in poverty and even had to move to a farm from the inner city as a child so that he wouldn't starve (yes this was in America). So he didn't get steak as a child. When he grew up and had money, he could buy all the steak he wanted and he wanted it a lot. So maybe four or five times a week, my family had steak for dinner, well done steak (a gourmet, he was not). I was so sick of steak by the time I grew up that you couldn't pay me to eat it.

Then decades later I discovered good steak cooked red inside ...

Edited January 22, 2011 by Jingthing

[Wallaby]

By restaurant person I meant you don't work in the restaurant business. Sorry I didn't mean you don't eat out a lot.

hahahaha, no worries Mark. You are correct, I wouldn't know the first thing about owning or managing a restaurant.

And don't get me wrong, I do respect your view, you get what you like and good on you. No problem.

[Wallaby]

It doesn't surprise me at all. And I'm not saying a steak shouldn't be cooked as the customer wants it.

I am saying if a customer orders something the chef is not willing or able to procure, then honesty is the best for both the resto and the client. One cannot reproach someone for being honest.

But again that's just me.

Yermanee

No it isn't just you. I agree.

[Thaddeus]

Dry aged or wet aged. Sides of beef are hung in climate controlled refrigerators for 29 days, the mold is cut off the outside of the beef and then the side of beef is cut into steaks. The primal cuts of beef shrink 5 to 10% because of moisture loss.

Wet aged, cryovac. The side of beef is sealed in a heavy duty plastic wrap and left in a refrigerator for 29 days. There is no or little shrinkage and then the beef is cut into steaks.

Beef is never aged or left out at room temperature after it has been cut into a steak. That is illegal in most countries.

Beef is aged under refrigeration as a side or primal cut of beef never after it has been cut into steak.

The smallest cut that is usually aged is a top round or prime rib, both at least 10 pounds.

Aging a small piece of beef or a steak one has bought at the store is silly, perhaps dangerous and never done in a restaurant.

After training hundreds of broiler chefs to cook steaks I have discovered it is only essential to train them to cook steak medium rare. Why? Customers don't get upset if they order a steak rare and it comes MR. 80% of steak house customers order MR. If a customer orders it medium and it comes MR customers are not upset because it is close and if need be can be re cooked to medium. Few customers order MW or Well done and those people normally don't go out to eat much.

Ordering a steak well done upsets cooks. It is like putting ketchup on a steak or asking a go go dancer to put on her shirt while she is dancing. Or putting ice in a red wine from Bordeaux. Ordering a steak well done is to a cook in a steak house as putting ice in a glass of draft Guinness is to a bartender in Dublin.

knew it would happen.....

So did I ..... but he is right.

[timekeeper]

last time i went there, the new owner just taken over

we had a few cocktails at well over 500 baht each and a couple of bottles of decent wine

it was an excellent all top priced steaks 3 course meal for four persons

the service was very good

surroundings beautiful, good atmosphere

the bill was nearly 15,000 baht as i recall

there was no offer of a nightcap on the house which would have been nice

it was spoilt a little by the owner barely saying goodnight as we left

the finale just took the edge off the overture and subsequently there has been no encore ...........

[mark45y]

Lets remember that we are not talking about a whole in the wall place here. I always

thought of this place as one of top steak places in pattaya ...

At 1090++ baht for a 8oz Fillet, I would have expected it to be perfect. Again neither

Brunos or Royal Cliff messed up a steak. The lamb at both places is superb. This place

had it cooked wrong and it was not Grade A (980++ bhat) In my opinion this is unacceptable

and we will not be back.

When Dave was running this place he would stop by at least 2 times during a dinner

checking if everything is ok. Freddy does the same at Bruno's. The new owner at this

steak house was sitting in the lounge sipping drinks. Not once where we asked if the

food was ok. It's to bad as all the staff there knows me by name and I like them all ...

Cheers,

rudi

One of the major reasons I came to Thailand was I had worked 12 hours a day with no days off for 6 years in my last restaurant. I was beat. Every customer in any place I have ever worked got a visit from me after the food arrived to make sure everything was as ordered. This did create problems though. Whenever I tried to take a day off customers would complain that something was wrong and the place did not run as well. Not because it ran bad but because I had become as much of a fixture as the sign out front.

Actually I was exaggerating about the well done steaks. A good restaurant should be able to provide any temperature of doneness. However if you can't get MR right you are doomed.

If you are going to order anything well done it should be prime rib, it can still be tender when cooked to death. Normally a restaurant will use the leftover prime rib from the day before, re heated for the MW and Well done orders. Texans like their meat well done because long horn cattle used to have a parasite way back when people ate long horn cattle (cowboys) that needed to be killed by well done cooking. That's why medium in rural Texas is like Well done in NYC.

I agree you can't drink and run a restaurant or bar or go go.

You see it all the time in Pattaya, I can think of one successful place on Soi LK Metro that was recently raided. Maybe for a few years when you are young but there comes a time when the booze catches up with you.

[luudee]

Lets remember that we are not talking about a whole in the wall place here. I always

thought of this place as one of top steak places in pattaya ...

At 1090++ baht for a 8oz Fillet, I would have expected it to be perfect. Again neither

Brunos or Royal Cliff messed up a steak. The lamb at both places is superb. This place

had it cooked wrong and it was not Grade A (980++ bhat) In my opinion this is unacceptable

and we will not be back.

When Dave was running this place he would stop by at least 2 times during a dinner

checking if everything is ok. Freddy does the same at Bruno's. The new owner at this

steak house was sitting in the lounge sipping drinks. Not once where we asked if the

food was ok. It's to bad as all the staff there knows me by name and I like them all ...

Cheers,

rudi

One of the major reasons I came to Thailand was I had worked 12 hours a day with no days off for 6 years in my last restaurant. I was beat. Every customer in any place I have ever worked got a visit from me after the food arrived to make sure everything was as ordered. This did create problems though. Whenever I tried to take a day off customers would complain that something was wrong and the place did not run as well. Not because it ran bad but because I had become as much of a fixture as the sign out front.

Actually I was exaggerating about the well done steaks. A good restaurant should be able to provide any temperature of doneness. However if you can't get MR right you are doomed.

If you are going to order anything well done it should be prime rib, it can still be tender when cooked to death. Normally a restaurant will use the leftover prime rib from the day before, re heated for the MW and Well done orders. Texans like their meat well done because long horn cattle used to have a parasite way back when people ate long horn cattle (cowboys) that needed to be killed by well done cooking. That's why medium in rural Texas is like Well done in NYC.

I agree you can't drink and run a restaurant or bar or go go.

You see it all the time in Pattaya, I can think of one successful place on Soi LK Metro that was recently raided. Maybe for a few years when you are young but there comes a time when the booze catches up with you.

Mark,

as I said the guy was sitting in the lounge enjoying some

drinks ... I know he was the owner ... this condition has

existed for the last 6 months ... I am happy for the guys

that prefer their steak any other way than well done, and

they enjoy them. I don't like my well done steak being

dry like the desart and taste like absolutley nothing ...

I never had that type of problem at the other high-end

establishments. I am sorry to have assumed this is a

place in par with Brunos or Royal Cliff. This place is just

another overpriced crappy dinner, even the bread that

they serve before the meals is at least 3 days old ... never

happened when Dave was running the place ...

I am really disgusted with the meal we where served that

evening.

Cheers,

rudi

[Lance_A_Lot]

We (myself, my Thai wife and our son) moved to the U.S. in early Dec. 2010. I had to relocate to the U.S. as I have a type of leukemia, CLL. Now we're in frigid New Hampshire;

and, man, do I miss Thailand now.

I lived in Thailand for ten years. I had a few very good steaks while living in Bangkok; but, was never happy with steak I ordered at any restaurant in the Pattaya/Jomtien area.

My wife is an excellent cook. We used to buy the best beef we could find at Carrefour, FoodLand, etc., and she'd cook them over the charred wood (20 Baht/bag!)in the barbeque.

They were very decent this way, so if you have an area where you can barbeque steaks, I highly recommend getting into that. Good luck.

[PattayaParent]

A well done steak is never tender and lamb should be pink.But I guess you must be a Brit.

Depends how good you are at cooking it, and I guess you're the chuck it on the barbie type that never cooks meat properly.

[PattayaParent]

Ordering a steak well done upsets cooks.

it's none of a cook's fàcking business how a guest wants his steak to be prepared. he is paid to do it according to the guest's desire. if it upsets him he is free to jump from a balcony or cut his pecker of with a steak knife.

Every trade and business has rules. Sailors have superstitions as do people who work in mines.

Restaurants be they Chinese or African or Thai have more things in common than they have differences.

You are of course correct when you say that it is the cooks job to cook the steak the way it was ordered.

In the States a medium rare in NYC is not the same as a medium rare in South Texas. Ask an illiterate farm boy from Arkansas how he wants his eggs cooked and you get a blank stare.

Steak houses go out of business mainly because cooks don't know how to cook a medium rare steak. Steak houses prosper because they know how to cook a medium rare steak.

Managers of steak houses are obsessed with a cook knowing how to cook a medium rare steak.

A well done steak in a steak house is a mortal sin. It is like a go go dancer wearing flannel pajamas or Jing thing dating Miss Thailand. Steaks are expensive, not like chicken or noodles. If you have to throw out a steak it is a big deal. If you under cook a steak it is a small mistake because you can always cook it a bit more. If you over cook a steak it is a lost cause, it gets thrown out.

So pity a bit the poor cook who has had it drummed into his head that the holy grail of cooking is a perfectly cooked medium rare piece of meat when an order comes in for a well done steak. He sees people who order well done steaks as devils in his dreams at night. A well done steak is a no win situation. Sure it is going to be tougher than a medium rare steak. If he is going to get a complaint it will be from a table that orders meat well done. The cook wants the people who order well done steaks to never come back. It is his worst nightmare. It takes too long to cook, messes up his grill and the sequence of all his other orders and chances are will be rejected anyway.

Of course you are correct the customer is always right. But it would be better for everyone if people who ordered well done steaks didn't go out to eat. The small amount of money earned is not worth the trouble.

Or they could simply write on the menu

"We don't konw how to cook a well done steak so don't ask for one"

And then customers would know to order something else.

[Digger]

Yes that surprises me too. I would think they would lose quite a bit of custom not doing something like cooking a steak how the customer likes it. But I suppose if it goes well then they must be doing something right.

I worked for a large steakhouse chain (300 units) once upon a time. They had a five state region that was almost broke because of poor performance of the units in that area. I think they wanted to get rid of me (my charming personality I'm sure) and gave me that region to supervise. In 6 months I turned it around and it was one of the most profitable areas in the company. It was simple, I ignored everything else and taught the cooks to cook a steak medium rare. It is just a matter of percentages. 80% of customers order MR. Forget about rare and well done, they confuse cooks. Get medium rare correct 100% of the time and you will make money. Same with a wife. If she gets sex right she can keep a sloppy house or spend too much money on groceries. How many guys divorce a woman who is really good in bed every day?

I would imagine the problem has a lot to do with how you define medium rare? With perhaps 20-40 nationalities as customers it is not easy as a US focussed chain within the US. Not meant as a slate - I have travelled a lot and I always ask how a kitchen defines medium rare, medium etc etc - but I doubt many do and they 'assume' there own understanding should be telepathically beamed to the chef. That I suspect is the root cause of the issue.

[Nawtier]

If I wanted my prawns cooked...or raw.....would that be ok to get them how i...as the one paying the bill and hence the staff's wages......want them ??

[Bagwan]

How many guys divorce a woman who is really good in bed every day?

That depends on who she is in bed with.

[patrickinpattaya]

Didn't realise that the subject of a well done steak would spark this much debate. I've had a few steaks in patts and never had any issue I ask for medium and that's what I get. I took my parents over last year my mother ordered well done my father rare. Both were very happy

[michaelpeitou]

The best way to do a well done steak is take it off the grill and put it in the oven until done.

[smokie36]

The best way to do a well done steak is take it off the grill and put it in the oven until done.

[PattayaParent]

The burned steak may be the Thai concept of well done, to be fair to the cook (with that result, chef is too nice a word). That restaurant though is posing as a New York steak house, the meaning of well done to westerners should be understood by the kitchen there and/or they should reject such orders.

Swiss too, their idea of well done is burnt both sides and still raw in the middle.

Edited January 25, 2011 by PattayaParent

[MudDoc]

I have to agree with most people here that a well done steak is not what you should be ordering at a restaraunt. Having said that, my father likes his steaks cremated and I nearly cry when I have to cook him one like that, but it's what he likes and wants.

To get back on subject, have you tried the steak at Manhattan's?? I know it has recently changed hands, but the steaks there are well cooked as requested by the customers and have a great taste.

[Phil Conners]

I think the OP was about Manhattan.

[Tolley]

Thailand is not the place to buy steaks.

If i want steak I will buy in Australia and cook myself.

I have tried a few pubs around Pattaya and Big Horn and Beefeater but none were really good

I was a the Mantra the other week and i think their steaks were about 3K baht. Please! Maybe they are good but a little exxy for my taste.

Seafood is the go in Thailand and if you really want good steak probably you need to go to the supermarket and get one and cook it yourself.

[bartender100]

Santa-Fe has opened in Carefour B149 for a tasty T-Bone is one of there opening specials, i had one the other day, cooked M/R perfect, and actually more flavor than the B800 sirloin i had in Bruno's a couple weeks ago.

BTW When in Bruno's and you get a B500 service charge added, do you leave a cash tip as well? do the staff actually get the service charge?

[PattayaParent]

Santa-Fe has opened in Carefour B149 for a tasty T-Bone is one of there opening specials, i had one the other day, cooked M/R perfect, and actually more flavor than the B800 sirloin i had in Bruno's a couple weeks ago.

BTW When in Bruno's and you get a B500 service charge added, do you leave a cash tip as well? do the staff actually get the service charge?

Is that a 500 Baht flat fee add on or a percentage of your bill?