About To Make The Big Move, But How To Avoid Bitterness And Regret

[bobbin]

^^

Ah. So it's an aesthetic repulsion is it?

Let's see if we can explore that a little bit, for the OP's sake...

A skscraper is a skyscraper, a shopping mall is a shopping mall, a Wat is a Wat, whether they are located in Bangkok, Chiang Mai or Pattaya. There is no place in Thailand called Patters. (one of those ridiculous British affectations to give place names cutsie nicknames) There are Thai people speaking Thai in all those places as well.

"Dumbing down" is actually what makes for a "soft-immersion". A half-way experience that makes inter-cultural transition easier. Do you have a problem with that concept? It occurs in all immigrant-friendly countries. Not that Thailand is one of those countries.

Did you miss the point of using it as a stepping-stone?

Care to share the neighborhood where you currently reside, so I can form my own impressions of the residents and environment? Any fatties hanging out there? I'm sure you aren't one of course, given your discomfort at the sight of a large belly on a beach. What were they thinking? If not moralistic, why mention the Issan princess, unless it's an opportunity to display the "possible" prejudice that seeps through your comments?

Why is Pattaya the victim of regular weekend traffic jams caused by Bangkok people down for a day at the beach? Seems like you are stuck with out-of-date perceptions.

As for blonde ladies, well, we have plenty of them these days, and lots of them are smoking hot. Russian, not Scandinavian but for looking makes no difference.

[samran]

^^

Ah. So it's an aesthetic repulsion is it?

Let's see if we can explore that a little bit, for the OP's sake...

A skscraper is a skyscraper, a shopping mall is a shopping mall, a Wat is a Wat, whether they are located in Bangkok, Chiang Mai or Pattaya. There is no place in Thailand called Patters. (one of those ridiculous British affectations to give place names cutsie nicknames) There are Thai people speaking Thai in all those places as well.

"Dumbing down" is actually what makes for a "soft-immersion". A half-way experience that makes inter-cultural transition easier. Do you have a problem with that concept? It occurs in all immigrant-friendly countries. Not that Thailand is one of those countries.

Did you miss the point of using it as a stepping-stone?

Care to share the neighborhood where you currently reside, so I can form my own impressions of the residents and environment? Any fatties hanging out there? I'm sure you aren't one of course, given your discomfort at the sight of a large belly on a beach. What were they thinking? If not moralistic, why mention the Issan princess, unless it's an opportunity to display the "possible" prejudice that seeps through your comments?

Why is Pattaya the victim of regular weekend traffic jams caused by Bangkok people down for a day at the beach? Seems like you are stuck with out-of-date perceptions.

As for blonde ladies, well, we have plenty of them these days, and lots of them are smoking hot. Russian, not Scandinavian but for looking makes no difference.

I wouldn't call it a repulsion, more a preference.

I mean are you saying you are the deep and meaningful type for whom looks doesn't matter, especially when you first meet? If so, bully for you. Then again you might not be. As you say, you have a preference for the north eastern look. Others like fat chicks. Who knows, you might prefer both in the same package. As they say in พัทยา, up to you, handsum man.

Happy to say, i am generally shallow.

As for trying to sell Patters (or พัทยา as I call it) as some sort of cultural learning centre, well mate, you had me pissing myself there. So should I head to the red light district of Amsterdam if I want to be Dutch, or the Dubliner pub in BKK if I want to be Irish? What next, claiming that Pattaya rivals Auythaya for historical significance? You should work for TAT. Or maybe a Pattaya property estate agent!

As for the traffic jams to Pattaya, yeah, there are. Many Bangkokians hail from Chonburi and still go back to visit families on the weekend. Bang Saen is a popular spot for Thai families on the weekend. In terms of it being a popular 'destination' for most Thai's, well, that died off in the mid to late 90's as Pattaya became the sh!thole - sorry, intercultural 'hub' - that it is today. Those who are unfortunate enough to make it there come back shaking their heads saying 'never again'.

[Berkshire]

I wouldn't call it a repulsion, more a preference.

I mean are you saying you are the deep and meaningful type for whom looks doesn't matter, especially when you first meet? If so, bully for you. Then again you might not be. As you say, you have a preference for the north eastern look. Others like fat chicks. Who knows, you might prefer both in the same package. As they say in พัทยา, up to you, handsum man.

Happy to say, i am generally shallow.

As for trying to sell Patters (or พัทยา as I call it) as some sort of cultural learning centre, well mate, you had me pissing myself there. So should I head to the red light district of Amsterdam if I want to be Dutch, or the Dubliner pub in BKK if I want to be Irish? What next, claiming that Pattaya rivals Auythaya for historical significance? You should work for TAT. Or maybe a Pattaya property estate agent!

As for the traffic jams to Pattaya, yeah, there are. Many Bangkokians hail from Chonburi and still go back to visit families on the weekend. Bang Saen is a popular spot for Thai families on the weekend. In terms of it being a popular 'destination' for most Thai's, well, that died off in the mid to late 90's as Pattaya became the sh!thole - sorry, intercultural 'hub' - that it is today. Those who are unfortunate enough to make it there come back shaking their heads saying 'never again'.

Nicely written, Samran. My view of Pattaya is not hatred for the place...rather "fun place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there." There are a lot of good folks there. Unfortunately, Pattaya also attracts a disproportionate number of scumbags and certifiable nutcases.

The Thais that live in Pattaya are ABSOLUTELY NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF NORMAL THAIS. To generalize a bit, most Thais that are in Pattaya are there to make money. It's rare to even meet a Thai who would say they're from Pattaya. Have yet to meet one outside of Pattaya that would say they're from there. These Thais are in Pattaya to make money. Fleecing farangs is not a Pattaya pastime, but it's certainly "optional." Contrast that with, say, Chiang Mai. Chiang Mai is full of Thais from Chiang Mai that are just living their lives. Doesn't seem like much, but it makes a big difference. There are farang-hunters in Chiang Mai as well, but in much smaller numbers. I would think that if all you've done in Thailand is interact with Thais in Pattaya (and other tourist districts in Phuket and BKK), then you haven't a clue what real Thais are like. Newsflash! The average Thai is very much like the average westerner (although not necessarily like the average westerner in Thailand).

[mark45y]

Staying away from Pattaya? Come on, moralistic high-roaders aside, it has to be the easiest Thai city to live in as a foreigner. Nearly every product/service they are used to is here. It can can viewed as a "soft-immersion" experience. A stepping-stone to a more "authentic" experience in other Thai cities....

Or do you subscribe to Oscar Wilde's position that he "could resist anything except temptation"

No...Pattaya is a cr@phole. Horses for courses (of course 5555).

Cue moralistic "high-roader"....

You also think all the service girls are ugly, at least the one you see on your daily constitutional on lower Suhkumvit....

Completely missing all the Northern Thai ladies working the Thai-oriented Massage/Gentlemen's Clubs

You are Thai or Luk Krueng, correct? Any possibilty you share the common Central Thai prejudice against your Issan countrymen ( 40% of the Thai population )? Since Pattaya is actually an Issan city by population if not geography.

meh,

nothing moralistic about it. I have no philosophical problem with what goes on in Patters. If walking down the beach in speedos, which your guts hanging out with a bored looking Isaan princess on your arm is your thing, then knock yourself out buddy.

I think the place is a fourth-rate Costa del Yob, and that is being generous.

In terms of places to live, well you have a higher percentage of wanke_rs and tosspots concentrated in one location than you normally would find elsewhere (both Thai's and foreigners).

It is overpriced, tacky and hardly like anywhere else in Thailand. I presume if you are coming to live in Thailand you'd actually like some semblance of Thai-ness to your local environs. Patters has a diluted version of it, with is then dumbed down alot more for the consumers of what Patters has on offer.

As for the rest of your comment, my taste in the opposite sex doesn't guide where I decide to live, if it did, it wouldn't be anywhere in Asia...more likely somewhere in Scandinavia.

Pattaya is not more expensive for many things, smoked turkey for example. Since I cook Thai food at home most every day my food cost will be about the same anywhere in Thailand. As a rule at least the kind of seafood I eat is cheaper in Pattaya than Chiang Mai.

Health care costs are the same, cheap major hospitals are only a 30 minute drive. The same for clothing, Lotus in Nakon Nowhere is the same as Lotus Pattaya.

Rents outside of the city center and beach areas are a bit more but not much if you are looking for a large studio apartment. Thai entertainment venues are more and ladies met on Song Taus are more. Ladies who work at the malls and nurses expect more too. If you are married or in a relationship this would not be a factor.

French food is a lot less in Pattaya as is German food.

Condoms are the same price.

The show is less per person. Grab a seat almost anywhere and watch the parade of humanity go by. Pattaya is less per freak than almost anywhere on the planet.

If your butt puckers at the sight unusual things and you are an uptight little traveled born again whatever, who enjoys trying to make other more liberal people feel like they are candidates for Dante's Inferno, Pattaya is not the place.

However if you don't dream of living in Kansas and have a few miles left on your tires Pattaya is not that expensive.

[IanForbes]

Moving to Thailand? I only have a bit of advice.

1. Bring your own electronics. Cameras, I-pods and computers are cheaper in North Americand probably Europe. Then, buy everything else you need here. UNLESS you have a body that needs over sized clothing or footwear,

2. RENT DON'T BUY! That is true whether it comes to either accommodation or women!

3. Until you finally decide what location suits you best it makes sense to move a bit and sample everything.. Everyone wants something different and no one size fits all..I would start out in a place like Pattaya that is large enough that it has lots of reasonable accommodation and all the amenities everyone could possibly want. You DON'T have to stay in the heart of the city. A small scooter will get you anywhere within 40 km south or north. I'd also give Chiang Mai a try just to see the contrast. It is much more layed back and suits some people more. I'd stay out of the beautiful but remote Thai villages until you learn the language. You will quickly get bored there and services such as internet is poor or non-existant.

4. DON'T FALL IN LOVE within the first year or until you learn the game.. Stick to your guns on this issue. If you don't then you WILL be taken for a ride by one of the thousands of "predators". Believe me, they are VERY good at the game.

[61guitarman61]

Be patient. Everything here moves at Thai speed, NOT the way you are accustomed to in the west. If you are given a timeframe it will be longer than stated. If you are working through visa, work permit or other official snafu's, DO NOT ever show impatience to the officials. They hold all the cards and can deal from the top middle and bottom of the deck any time they choose. If you are bringing a large amount of your personal belongings for a long term move here, expect to pay for a smooth journey through customs and the dock authority and shippers and transportation companies. There are hands out everywhere.

[mark45y]

Moving to Thailand? I only have a bit of advice.

1. Bring your own electronics. Cameras, I-pods and computers are cheaper in North Americand probably Europe. Then, buy everything else you need here. UNLESS you have a body that needs over sized clothing or footwear,

2. RENT DON'T BUY! That is true whether it comes to either accommodation or women!

3. Until you finally decide what location suits you best it makes sense to move a bit and sample everything.. Everyone wants something different and no one size fits all..I would start out in a place like Pattaya that is large enough that it has lots of reasonable accommodation and all the amenities everyone could possibly want. You DON'T have to stay in the heart of the city. A small scooter will get you anywhere within 40 km south or north. I'd also give Chiang Mai a try just to see the contrast. It is much more layed back and suits some people more. I'd stay out of the beautiful but remote Thai villages until you learn the language. You will quickly get bored there and services such as internet is poor or non-existant.

4. DON'T FALL IN LOVE within the first year or until you learn the game.. Stick to your guns on this issue. If you don't then you WILL be taken for a ride by one of the thousands of "predators". Believe me, they are VERY good at the game.

Ian is right. Rent and move around. Chiang Mai is a good place to study Thai too. The quicker you have at least a working knowledge the more secure you will be. Chiang Mai might not be wild as Pattaya or Bangkok but I hear there is a lot of action around the vegetarian restaurants.

Maybe you want to rent a small secure place if only to store things if you have a lot stuff.

If space is a problem, take the guts out of your computer and rebuild it in Thailand. I brought 4 hard drives, motherboards etc and had a shop put it together here. Put all of your critical information on flash drives and also email it to yourself in case you get robbed.

Get a couple of cheap cell phones so you can give those numbers out and turn them on and off as appropriate.

As for avoiding bitterness, don't forget the advisability of having a crash pad.

[yermanee]

I wouldn't call it a repulsion, more a preference.

I mean are you saying you are the deep and meaningful type for whom looks doesn't matter, especially when you first meet? If so, bully for you. Then again you might not be. As you say, you have a preference for the north eastern look. Others like fat chicks. Who knows, you might prefer both in the same package. As they say in พัทยา, up to you, handsum man.

Happy to say, i am generally shallow.

As for trying to sell Patters (or พัทยา as I call it) as some sort of cultural learning centre, well mate, you had me pissing myself there. So should I head to the red light district of Amsterdam if I want to be Dutch, or the Dubliner pub in BKK if I want to be Irish? What next, claiming that Pattaya rivals Auythaya for historical significance? You should work for TAT. Or maybe a Pattaya property estate agent!

As for the traffic jams to Pattaya, yeah, there are. Many Bangkokians hail from Chonburi and still go back to visit families on the weekend. Bang Saen is a popular spot for Thai families on the weekend. In terms of it being a popular 'destination' for most Thai's, well, that died off in the mid to late 90's as Pattaya became the sh!thole - sorry, intercultural 'hub' - that it is today. Those who are unfortunate enough to make it there come back shaking their heads saying 'never again'.

Nicely written, Samran. My view of Pattaya is not hatred for the place...rather "fun place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there." There are a lot of good folks there. Unfortunately, Pattaya also attracts a disproportionate number of scumbags and certifiable nutcases.

The Thais that live in Pattaya are ABSOLUTELY NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF NORMAL THAIS. To generalize a bit, most Thais that are in Pattaya are there to make money. It's rare to even meet a Thai who would say they're from Pattaya. Have yet to meet one outside of Pattaya that would say they're from there. These Thais are in Pattaya to make money. Fleecing farangs is not a Pattaya pastime, but it's certainly "optional." Contrast that with, say, Chiang Mai. Chiang Mai is full of Thais from Chiang Mai that are just living their lives. Doesn't seem like much, but it makes a big difference. There are farang-hunters in Chiang Mai as well, but in much smaller numbers. I would think that if all you've done in Thailand is interact with Thais in Pattaya (and other tourist districts in Phuket and BKK), then you haven't a clue what real Thais are like. Newsflash! The average Thai is very much like the average westerner (although not necessarily like the average westerner in Thailand).

Wow, obviously you two don't like the place.

I do however.

On question though : what do you consider NORMAL Thais?

Yermanee

[bobbin]

Samran and Berkshire

In the interests of providing accurate information to someone (the Op) who phrased their request in a reasonable fashion, Pattaya is an inter-cultural hub. Who can reasonably deny that.

Walking Street and the bars near Beach Road do not comprise the entire city. So it's a specious argument to say that the Red Light District is not Amsterdam, but WalkingStreet/Beach Road is Pattaya.

Pattaya is the little city that grew...at a fantastic rate. And like all cities like it, most inhabitants are from somewhere else. People willing to move to pursue opportunity. Yes, people looking to make money. Like everywhere else in the world.

Samran, I never spoke of my preferences in Thai women but will volunteer that my taste runs to the Northern Thai look. But I don't wear blinders and have seen many attractive Issan ladies. That said, I have spent considerable time and money learning Thai and virtually none of either learning Lao.

I live in Pattaya/Jomtien for all the reasons I mentioned previously. The OP could as well. "Graduating", if you will, to that more "authentic" Thai experience/environment when desired. An experience/environment that might be somewhat intimidating otherwise.

Berkshire, what was so well said by Samran? Perhaps if you like your opinions well-salted with sarcasm, it might appeal, but you say you like the place, just don't want to live there. That is not Samran's opinion. He sneers at it's very existance.

And that's the problem. What happened to live and let live?

[jdinasia]

Walking Street and the bars near Beach Road do not comprise the entire city. So it's a specious argument to say that the Red Light District is not Amsterdam, but WalkingStreet/Beach Road is Pattaya.

The services provided in Amsterdam's red-light district are (at least visibly) limited to said district. The services offered on 'walking street' are available all the way over on the dark-side rather openly. So it isn't a specious argument.

Pattaya isn't a 'special' place the way you portray. It isn't an 'easing into the culture' --- it is a shock treatment of being exposed to the worst of Thai culture. Who would deny that the chance of being scammed in Pattaya was immensely higher than say, Chantaburi or Rayong?

I understand that some people love the 'rawness' (and I don't just mean the smells from the sewers) of Pattaya. I go there myself on occasion. That's fine! Live with the pro's and cons of it, if that is where you choose to live!

I choose to live inside the moat in Chiang Mai, if I were a newbie to Thailand that would mean my chances of being scammed would rise the closer I got to Tha Pae Gate or Loi Kroh.

[jazzbo]

You have asked about the how best to live in Thailand; when Spencer Tracy was asked what are the secrets to great acting he replied:

Know your marks.

Know your lines.

Don't trip over the furniture.

Any advice longer-winded than that isn't really worth it.

[mark45y]

Walking Street and the bars near Beach Road do not comprise the entire city. So it's a specious argument to say that the Red Light District is not Amsterdam, but WalkingStreet/Beach Road is Pattaya.

The services provided in Amsterdam's red-light district are (at least visibly) limited to said district. The services offered on 'walking street' are available all the way over on the dark-side rather openly. So it isn't a specious argument.

Pattaya isn't a 'special' place the way you portray. It isn't an 'easing into the culture' --- it is a shock treatment of being exposed to the worst of Thai culture. Who would deny that the chance of being scammed in Pattaya was immensely higher than say, Chantaburi or Rayong?

I understand that some people love the 'rawness' (and I don't just mean the smells from the sewers) of Pattaya. I go there myself on occasion. That's fine! Live with the pro's and cons of it, if that is where you choose to live!

I choose to live inside the moat in Chiang Mai, if I were a newbie to Thailand that would mean my chances of being scammed would rise the closer I got to Tha Pae Gate or Loi Kroh.

In 2004 I arrived in Thailand and moved into the Nana Plaza hotel. For breakfast I went to Gulliver's, afternoon cocktails at the Biergarten and then on to the Cathouse all you can drink special. When the special hours were over and I tired of watching the cats I tumbled into the Rainbow's in sequence, played in the Nana Plaza parking lot and ended up after closing at the disco in the mothership. When that got dull I went to see Mark the Frenchman on Soi 7. Then off to Chiang Mai and Hotstuff, Bubbles and a late night snack at Spicy. Do you really think Pattaya was a shock treatment? You must be kidding or naive.

[jdinasia]

Compared to Bubbles? Yes ---

But honestly --- if the sexpat thing were what the OP is after he wouldn't have started this thread. If you were honest about your exploits I am sure you would have many 'interesting' stories to tell. Many of which might include learning lessons the hard way.

(one stretch of road in BKK ---- a few places in Chiang Mai ---- versus an entire city that rates having it's own special administrative district --- --- yeah color me naive

Edited January 25, 2011 by jdinasia

[mark45y]

Compared to Bubbles? Yes ---

But honestly --- if the sexpat thing were what the OP is after he wouldn't have started this thread. If you were honest about your exploits I am sure you would have many 'interesting' stories to tell. Many of which might include learning lessons the hard way.

(one stretch of road in BKK ---- a few places in Chiang Mai ---- versus an entire city that rates having it's own special administrative district --- --- yeah color me naive

I lived in Chiang Mai for a couple of years by Central Plaza. I will agree not in your face as much as Pattaya but my oh my if you use the house of male as a starting point and walk around a bit Chiang Mai does have its naughty side. After all there is that vegetarian restaurant and lord knows what kind of crowd hangs out there. Frankly I found the mall and adjoining areas quite interesting. I never found a laundry, slot machine and beer bar place in Pattaya. I know I should keep quiet, Chiang Mai after all is supposed to be different than Pattaya. And don't forget Ian could live in Pattaya if he wanted to but he lives in Chiang Mai.

[jdinasia]

Compared to Bubbles? Yes ---

But honestly --- if the sexpat thing were what the OP is after he wouldn't have started this thread. If you were honest about your exploits I am sure you would have many 'interesting' stories to tell. Many of which might include learning lessons the hard way.

(one stretch of road in BKK ---- a few places in Chiang Mai ---- versus an entire city that rates having it's own special administrative district --- --- yeah color me naive

I lived in Chiang Mai for a couple of years by Central Plaza. I will agree not in your face as much as Pattaya but my oh my if you use the house of male as a starting point and walk around a bit Chiang Mai does have its naughty side. After all there is that vegetarian restaurant and lord knows what kind of crowd hangs out there. Frankly I found the mall and adjoining areas quite interesting. I never found a laundry, slot machine and beer bar place in Pattaya. I know I should keep quiet, Chiang Mai after all is supposed to be different than Pattaya. And don't forget Ian could live in Pattaya if he wanted to but he lives in Chiang Mai.

If you haven't found where to gamble in Pattaya then you must be "kidding or naive". Chiang Mai is different than Pattaya, but it is still in Thailand. You can run into scams here (as I noted before) and everything else. It isn't that anywhere in Thailand you can't find mischief and mischief makers ... it is simply that mischief is Pattaya's sole purpose for existence.

BTW if you bring your laundry with you in Pattaya they will send it out, the waitresses are available, and the machines are sticky not loose In BKK you can choose to stay out of trouble easily and still avail yourself of fine eats and entertainment, the same for CNX .. but Pattaya .... exactly where does one bring his Hi-So Th/Ch GF for an upscale date without all the "in your face"? You can't even go to Bruno's for that!

[Berkshire]

Nicely written, Samran. My view of Pattaya is not hatred for the place...rather "fun place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there." There are a lot of good folks there. Unfortunately, Pattaya also attracts a disproportionate number of scumbags and certifiable nutcases.

The Thais that live in Pattaya are ABSOLUTELY NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF NORMAL THAIS. To generalize a bit, most Thais that are in Pattaya are there to make money. It's rare to even meet a Thai who would say they're from Pattaya. Have yet to meet one outside of Pattaya that would say they're from there. These Thais are in Pattaya to make money. Fleecing farangs is not a Pattaya pastime, but it's certainly "optional." Contrast that with, say, Chiang Mai. Chiang Mai is full of Thais from Chiang Mai that are just living their lives. Doesn't seem like much, but it makes a big difference. There are farang-hunters in Chiang Mai as well, but in much smaller numbers. I would think that if all you've done in Thailand is interact with Thais in Pattaya (and other tourist districts in Phuket and BKK), then you haven't a clue what real Thais are like. Newsflash! The average Thai is very much like the average westerner (although not necessarily like the average westerner in Thailand).

Wow, obviously you two don't like the place.

I do however.

On question though : what do you consider NORMAL Thais?

Yermanee

To answer your question: A normal Thai is very much like a normal westerner. To put it another way, a normal Thai doesn't meet a farang and immediately try to figure out how to siphon money out of him. Obviously, not all Thais in Pattaya do this. But a much larger number than in, say, Chiang Mai.

[mark45y]

Compared to Bubbles? Yes ---

But honestly --- if the sexpat thing were what the OP is after he wouldn't have started this thread. If you were honest about your exploits I am sure you would have many 'interesting' stories to tell. Many of which might include learning lessons the hard way.

(one stretch of road in BKK ---- a few places in Chiang Mai ---- versus an entire city that rates having it's own special administrative district --- --- yeah color me naive

I lived in Chiang Mai for a couple of years by Central Plaza. I will agree not in your face as much as Pattaya but my oh my if you use the house of male as a starting point and walk around a bit Chiang Mai does have its naughty side. After all there is that vegetarian restaurant and lord knows what kind of crowd hangs out there. Frankly I found the mall and adjoining areas quite interesting. I never found a laundry, slot machine and beer bar place in Pattaya. I know I should keep quiet, Chiang Mai after all is supposed to be different than Pattaya. And don't forget Ian could live in Pattaya if he wanted to but he lives in Chiang Mai.

If you haven't found where to gamble in Pattaya then you must be "kidding or naive". Chiang Mai is different than Pattaya, but it is still in Thailand. You can run into scams here (as I noted before) and everything else. It isn't that anywhere in Thailand you can't find mischief and mischief makers ... it is simply that mischief is Pattaya's sole purpose for existence.

BTW if you bring your laundry with you in Pattaya they will send it out, the waitresses are available, and the machines are sticky not loose In BKK you can choose to stay out of trouble easily and still avail yourself of fine eats and entertainment, the same for CNX .. but Pattaya .... exactly where does one bring his Hi-So Th/Ch GF for an upscale date without all the "in your face"? You can't even go to Bruno's for that!

I meant in CM there was one shop that had a bar, slot machines and laundry. You could have a beer play the slots while they did the laundry. Where can hi so people go in Pattaya. Gee, the Princess of the family we can't talk about lives in Pattaya and shops weekly at Foodland. I know I saw her there every week. If it is good enough for the family we can't talk about it is good enough for me.

[Berkshire]

Samran and Berkshire

In the interests of providing accurate information to someone (the Op) who phrased their request in a reasonable fashion, Pattaya is an inter-cultural hub. Who can reasonably deny that.

Walking Street and the bars near Beach Road do not comprise the entire city. So it's a specious argument to say that the Red Light District is not Amsterdam, but WalkingStreet/Beach Road is Pattaya.

Pattaya is the little city that grew...at a fantastic rate. And like all cities like it, most inhabitants are from somewhere else. People willing to move to pursue opportunity. Yes, people looking to make money. Like everywhere else in the world.

Samran, I never spoke of my preferences in Thai women but will volunteer that my taste runs to the Northern Thai look. But I don't wear blinders and have seen many attractive Issan ladies. That said, I have spent considerable time and money learning Thai and virtually none of either learning Lao.

I live in Pattaya/Jomtien for all the reasons I mentioned previously. The OP could as well. "Graduating", if you will, to that more "authentic" Thai experience/environment when desired. An experience/environment that might be somewhat intimidating otherwise.

Berkshire, what was so well said by Samran? Perhaps if you like your opinions well-salted with sarcasm, it might appeal, but you say you like the place, just don't want to live there. That is not Samran's opinion. He sneers at it's very existance.

And that's the problem. What happened to live and let live?

Bobbin, I was referring more to his style of writing. I agree with most of the content as well, although maybe not quite as strong in my sentiments. I will stand by my belief that the Thais in Pattaya--and the overall lifestyle there--is not representative of the rest of Thailand. I hope you will at least concede that someone who goes to Pattaya and only Pattaya will get a distorted view of what Thailand is about. Heck, pretty much every Thai that I meet (not in Pattaya) are ashamed of that place. But what are they to do. Before replying to that comment, I hope those that have disagreements with their home governments realize that they are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. As an American, I have pretty much no say on how the govt conducts foreign policy. For example.

[jdinasia]

Compared to Bubbles? Yes ---

But honestly --- if the sexpat thing were what the OP is after he wouldn't have started this thread. If you were honest about your exploits I am sure you would have many 'interesting' stories to tell. Many of which might include learning lessons the hard way.

(one stretch of road in BKK ---- a few places in Chiang Mai ---- versus an entire city that rates having it's own special administrative district --- --- yeah color me naive

I lived in Chiang Mai for a couple of years by Central Plaza. I will agree not in your face as much as Pattaya but my oh my if you use the house of male as a starting point and walk around a bit Chiang Mai does have its naughty side. After all there is that vegetarian restaurant and lord knows what kind of crowd hangs out there. Frankly I found the mall and adjoining areas quite interesting. I never found a laundry, slot machine and beer bar place in Pattaya. I know I should keep quiet, Chiang Mai after all is supposed to be different than Pattaya. And don't forget Ian could live in Pattaya if he wanted to but he lives in Chiang Mai.

If you haven't found where to gamble in Pattaya then you must be "kidding or naive". Chiang Mai is different than Pattaya, but it is still in Thailand. You can run into scams here (as I noted before) and everything else. It isn't that anywhere in Thailand you can't find mischief and mischief makers ... it is simply that mischief is Pattaya's sole purpose for existence.

BTW if you bring your laundry with you in Pattaya they will send it out, the waitresses are available, and the machines are sticky not loose In BKK you can choose to stay out of trouble easily and still avail yourself of fine eats and entertainment, the same for CNX .. but Pattaya .... exactly where does one bring his Hi-So Th/Ch GF for an upscale date without all the "in your face"? You can't even go to Bruno's for that!

I meant in CM there was one shop that had a bar, slot machines and laundry. You could have a beer play the slots while they did the laundry. Where can hi so people go in Pattaya. Gee, the Princess of the family we can't talk about lives in Pattaya and shops weekly at Foodland. I know I saw her there every week. If it is good enough for the family we can't talk about it is good enough for me.

I take it you live in a guarded compound in Cozy Beach and travel with an escort even when you choose to drive the VW yourself?

I meant that ANYWHERE there is gambling, they will get your laundry done (they'd think it was strange ... but hey) and there are ALWAYS drinks!

[annamargarita]

It's interesting how this thread progress from some one seeking tips on moving to Thailand to the topic on "bar girls".<BR>It's my first time to join this forum but I feel that conversations on "bar girls" are common. Does it have something to do with the target group?

Anyway, the serious version is that because of the incredible income/education/class/regional-background gap in Thailand, it makes it much easier to tell the difference based on superficial factors. Farangs (and Thai people) would still be wrong in a percentage of cases of course, as you're basically doing racial/social profiling which isn't an exact science.)

Not really worth of any discussion in itself. ...I've many friends, expats and foreigners who made a big move - career-wise to come to Thailand, met the love of their life and build a family and never have the most hang-ups about this.

[mark45y]

Response to Jdinasia,

Of course, I always travel with an escort. They won't let me go alone. Pheromones I think.

You mean you don't have an escort? How liberated of you. Nice common touch must endear you to the local peasants.

[mstribling]

5555 HiSo TH/Ch GF. That sh*t cracks me up I hear it.

OP: Also, Everywhere you go have 2 means of transportation out of town if you have a real GF.

[mark45y]

It's interesting how this thread progress from some one seeking tips on moving to Thailand to the topic on "bar girls".<BR>It's my first time to join this forum but I feel that conversations on "bar girls" are common. Does it have something to do with the target group?

Anyway, the serious version is that because of the incredible income/education/class/regional-background gap in Thailand, it makes it much easier to tell the difference based on superficial factors. Farangs (and Thai people) would still be wrong in a percentage of cases of course, as you're basically doing racial/social profiling which isn't an exact science.)

Not really worth of any discussion in itself. ...I've many friends, expats and foreigners who made a big move - career-wise to come to Thailand, met the love of their life and build a family and never have the most hang-ups about this.

I thought we were having a minor discussion of different places to live, in this instance why Pattaya would or would not be a good place to live. Some people think Pattaya is all about bar girls hence the discussion. People who live in Pattaya know the city is much more than that but it does have quite a reputation.

The target group of Thai Visa is male, young working Ph D's married to completely reputable upper middle class women who drive Mercedes and whose parents live in castles. And the hoards of Western women who flock to Thailand for the climate, food and cultural opportunities.

BTW nice to have you. If you fit into one of the above catagories you will feel right at home.

[EvilDrSomkid]

If thinking of living in Thailand there is only one important factor to remember that can be explained in one word: MONEY.

Do you have enough liquid assets to support yourself through the good times and the bad times?

Can you sustain yourself through any economic decline?

Can you survive in Thailand if no work or in between jobs?

Could you live comfortably and not be on the bare minimum?

Do you have reserve funds for a rainy day?

Could you satisfy Immigration by having the right amount of money in a Thai bank account without having to do border runs?

If the answer to all my questions above is yes, then the rest mentioned on your list will naturally fall into place and no need to worry.

If no to any of my questions, then think again before moving here. In Thailand if you fall down no one is going to pick you up, not your ex pat pals, not your embassy and probably not your friends and family in your own country.

Thailand is not so cheap as some believe and many the mighty have fallen here.

My answer to your question is: if you want to avoid bitterness and regret, plan it right and think carefully, it`s not about what you want to do, but can you afford to do it.

It is impossible to say if I have enough to be able to afford it, which is why I refer to not spending beyond my means. I believe that if one spends 1 baht less a month than one earns, one can be relaxed about finances and so, in conjunction with other things, have a fulfilling life. I have modest UK properties that are not mortgaged and that with an occupancy rate of 85% after agents fees, tax a maintenance currently provide about 100k (baht) a month and I have other investments that currently provide about 15-20k (bath) a month (so the capital values here are not huge). I will also bring about 2 million baht cash to live off for the first couple of years. My UK occupational pensions are small and I am 27 years away from being able to take a pension at NRD from these.

But my plan is to work, teaching English (20 - 30k a month - I hope). I am not currently a teacher, but like the idea of settling into the sticks and getting a teaching job. If I have no job, I risk falling apart. My plan is to live of 60k a month, or maybe less. I believe that if I had just 20k a month, provided the rest of my life was in shape, and I was not spending beyond my means, I would be just as happy than with more, hell maybe even more happy as it would force me to be more resourceful.

Wow, more than a page wasted on sniping.

bassy, considering the above information you provided, which nobody hooked onto strangely enough, you'll be just fine.

If my arithmetic is right;

You are 38. Good age to go.

You have approx 100-120k baht per month disposable income, independent of your teacher's salary.

A good (large) cash reserve.

Leaving bridges unburned.

A plan for employment.

Your head is screwed on right.

You are good to go and many will be envious of your financial position.

My tip: KEEP IT SECRET!

When you move, don't tell anyone how much money you have. Not locals (especially the women), not expats, NO ONE!

Be the slightly poor English teacher, but you can easily afford a decent place, drive a decent car (if you are into cars at all) and wear good clothes.

If you plan on living outside BKK, cool, check out Chiang Mai. In fact, if I were you, take all the time you want to decide on where to settle.

A mate of mine is working on moving out to CM and become an English teacher as soon as he has sold his apartment.

Chohk dee khap :jap:

[jdinasia]

Response to Jdinasia,

Of course, I always travel with an escort. They won't let me go alone. Pheromones I think.

You mean you don't have an escort? How liberated of you. Nice common touch must endear you to the local peasants.

The peasants from here all moved to Pattaya

[annamargarita]

Wow! THAIVISA sounds like a great place then!

I love Pattaya! maybe most people are wandering at the wrong side of this lovely city I guess. I stayed there for a few months and I reckon I learned quite a bit about Thailand and Thai culture during that period - Not just the language but all sorts of cultural and social stuff that is uniquely Thai and that has proven to be as real and Thai in Pattaya as anywhere else I have been/lived in Thailand. To say its not good to live in Pattaya is blatantly incorrect, and demonstrates nothing but a closed mind.

xoxo

[mstribling]

It's interesting how this thread progress from some one seeking tips on moving to Thailand to the topic on "bar girls".<BR>It's my first time to join this forum but I feel that conversations on "bar girls" are common. Does it have something to do with the target group?

Anyway, the serious version is that because of the incredible income/education/class/regional-background gap in Thailand, it makes it much easier to tell the difference based on superficial factors. Farangs (and Thai people) would still be wrong in a percentage of cases of course, as you're basically doing racial/social profiling which isn't an exact science.)

Not really worth of any discussion in itself. ...I've many friends, expats and foreigners who made a big move - career-wise to come to Thailand, met the love of their life and build a family and never have the most hang-ups about this.

I thought we were having a minor discussion of different places to live, in this instance why Pattaya would or would not be a good place to live. Some people think Pattaya is all about bar girls hence the discussion. People who live in Pattaya know the city is much more than that but it does have quite a reputation.

The target group of Thai Visa is male, young working Ph D's married to completely reputable upper middle class women who drive Mercedes and whose parents live in castles. And the hoards of Western women who flock to Thailand for the climate, food and cultural opportunities.

Sorry but you failed to mention that they grew up poor,

yet made millions selling their life story do the could make

the Bourne identity trilogy.

BTW nice to have you. If you fit into one of the above catagories you will feel right at home.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Samran: How do you get to be an Honourary Member when you display such negativity to a certain place in Thailand at every (slight) opportunity? It sounds like a broken record, and every time you do it there is no background or reasoning whatsoever.

You managed to derail the entire topic by turning it into a discussion for or against Pattaya, with over the top agitating. Why the obsession?

I can add some balance though, perhaps even common ground for a couple posters:

Staying away from Pattaya? Come on, moralistic high-roaders aside, it has to be the easiest Thai city to live in as a foreigner. Nearly every product/service they are used to is here. It can can viewed as a "soft-immersion" experience. A stepping-stone to a more "authentic" experience in other Thai cities....

I would not pick Pattaya as the first place to live or get to know Thailand. However after you do get to know Thailand, you may realize that Pattaya is more 'Thai' than you'd think at first glance, and that applies to both the good and the bad. Pattaya makes a perfectly nice place for a short / holiday visit: very affordable, good value for money and I'm actually finding I'm treated with a lot more respect by and large compared to the backpacker islands. (though these have their merits too)

[TAWP]

Find a job

Live in a non tourist area

Join a gym

Stay out of bars

Dont get a gf right away

Find some other hobbies

Im here.. i like it here been here almost 5 years. Im outside the tourist area's. I dont get scammed often. The pro's outweigh the cons. But hey every country has its bad things and its not wrong to discuss them. But every country has its good things too.. they are discussed less often. As long as good outweighs bad for you then your ok here.

The OP mentioned the pit-fall "- sleeping with too many different partners;" - which isn't a pitfall and the above checklist will enable.

[F1fanatic]

Yes, I read a lot of stories about dogs eating people in Northern Thailand.

I was chased up the road by a pack of over a dozen the other year. Rear tyre blew out on the scooter device, so there I am, sparking up the road, slithering with feral hounds snapping at my heals . . .

MJP - if you are ever chased whilst on a motorbike by a soi dog(s) - immediately stop, turn round and make an aggressive sound at them! They enjoy the chase and will back off once the 'chase' has gone and they realise you are not happy....

I always do this as, even though I'm not frightened, they have to learn that chasing motorbikes is not a good thing. It hasn't failed yet

Before the mods jump on me - sorry MJP, trying to post my reply I had probs with too many quotes. I've somehow (?) ended up with the first sentence in the post to which I'm replying belonging to another poster!

Edited January 25, 2011 by F1fanatic