Big bike forced off road by car on Bangkok highway - video

[eje]

I tried the ATM machine for the first time and I get an question if I exepted the banks rate. I didn´n know what to say so I quit.

Please help a novise in Thailand.

[crazygreg44]

I haven t come across an ATM yet which asks me if I accept the "bank rate" when I use my foreign Visa Card . Do you mean the ATM asks you if you accept the current exchange rate ? Never came across, however, well , if you want to withdraw money from a foreign account, using your credit card or other, the ATM will ask you if you agree with the "surcharge fee" of 150 Baht - regardless how high the amount you withdraw is . 150 Baht is the standard fee for withdrawal from a foreign account / card, so be prepared to answer yes. I always pick a minimum of 20,000 Baht so the fee really does not bother me much. If of course you plan to withdraw 2000 Baht only, the 150 Baht fee make up a hefty percentage. and BTW, my credit card issueing bank in Germany will refund the fees arisen with the VISA Card on foreign ATM's for me , so I also press YES when the ATM asks me for the receipt slip. Back in Germany I send the collected slips to my bank, and they will fully refund all fees. Maybe this helps . . .

[eje]

I haven t come across an ATM yet which asks me if I accept the "bank rate" when I use my foreign Visa Card . Do you mean the ATM asks you if you accept the current exchange rate ? Never came across, however, well , if you want to withdraw money from a foreign account, using your credit card or other, the ATM will ask you if you agree with the "surcharge fee" of 150 Baht - regardless how high the amount you withdraw is . 150 Baht is the standard fee for withdrawal from a foreign account / card, so be prepared to answer yes. I always pick a minimum of 20,000 Baht so the fee really does not bother me much. If of course you plan to withdraw 2000 Baht only, the 150 Baht fee make up a hefty percentage. and BTW, my credit card issueing bank in Germany will refund the fees arisen with the VISA Card on foreign ATM's for me , so I also press YES when the ATM asks me for the receipt slip. Back in Germany I send the collected slips to my bank, and they will fully refund all fees. Maybe this helps . . .

Copy"Do you mean the ATM asks you if you accept the current exchange rate ?" Yes. The 150 baht is ok, I know, but it´s the rate.Answer yes or no. I dont know what it´s mean.

[Pib]

You must have been using a "foreign/home country" credit/debit/ATM card, right?

Sounds like whatever Thai bank ATM you were using, the Thai bank was trying to confirm that you agreed to the exchange rate they use/give versus what Visa/Mastercard would give you.

And the 150 baht fee is a completely separate fee all Thai bank ATMs charge when using a "foreign card" (excluding AEON ATMs which is not Thai owned and does not charge a 150 baht fee when using foreign cards).

[Kwasaki]

ATM's only ask you you if you accept the 150 baht charge on the transaction. I can't believe you read it right or understood what they were asking.

[lifemagic]

Is this person possibly talking about the 'dynamic conversion rate' advertised on some atm's [aka one more scam to skim cash from people who can't be bothered to google such things].

If that is the case, i.e. an atm asks 'would you like to accept the dynamic conversion rate, with the wonderful benefit of actually seeing the real rate on the screen [which is worse than the visa rate]', then you always answer 'no', ... unless the question is framed as a double negative, eg. 'Are you sure you don't want to use the dynamic conversion rate', in which case you answer 'yes'.

[lifemagic]

Hey! I'm an advanced member! Last time I posted, I was ... something else.

Yipee!

[eje]

Copy: "You must have been using a "foreign/home country" credit/debit/ATM card, right? " Yes ,right. The rate the bank (ATM) show was lower then current rate. It was a big different.Maby I missunderstood the text. I will try again and read properly.

Thanks for your support.

[Tafia]

Is this person possibly talking about the 'dynamic conversion rate' advertised on some atm's [aka one more scam to skim cash from people who can't be bothered to google such things].

If that is the case, i.e. an atm asks 'would you like to accept the dynamic conversion rate, with the wonderful benefit of actually seeing the real rate on the screen [which is worse than the visa rate]', then you always answer 'no', ... unless the question is framed as a double negative, eg. 'Are you sure you don't want to use the dynamic conversion rate', in which case you answer 'yes'.

Yes I believe he is...Ive come across this a number of times when Ive had to use my UK Debit card...See above and read the question carefully but always answer in the negative the dynamic rate is lower than the general bank rate.

[jdinasia]

ATM's only ask you you if you accept the 150 baht charge on the transaction. I can't believe you read it right or understood what they were asking.

Bank of Ayutthaya offers you a choice of 150 baht/transaction or a lower exchange rate.

[Nisa]

I just had a similar thing happen.

I had a Visa ATM and was never asked this question but just activated a MasterCard ATM Card and when I went to use it the question popped up. It provided a conversion rate of 29 point something and asked if I wanted this MC ATM exchange rate and then gave a warning that if I did not accept it then they wouldn't be responsible for the rate. I just said, OK since it could have only amounted to 1 baht in my favor and really had no idea if it would have defaulted to my bank in the US or the Thai Bank exchange rate.

[Pib]

Are you saying you accepted a rate in the 29 to 30 baht to the dollar range, when Mastercard/Visa is currently providing around 30.5 baht to the dollar. Maybe your new card has a foreign transaction fee in the 1 to 3% range which caused the lower rate. I've made several Mastercard Capital One credit card purchases over the last few days (this particular card has a zero percent foreign transaction fee) and have got a exchange rate around 30.5 baht to the dollar....would have probably got around 30.75 if I had made some purchases today since the exchange rate has risen.

[Bobr]

I got that question when using a Mastercard to get cash at an Ayuda Bank ATM. I'm sure it was a rip off if you chose the wrong answer but just like the OP, I did not know which answer to choose.

I guess it's a choice; do you want to be screwed by an American corporation or a Thai bank.

Edited January 25, 2011 by Bobr

[Pib]

And what's really sad about this is if the rate offered by the Thai bank is lower than the Mastercard/Visa rate (and it probably will be) and your credit/debit/ATM card has a foreign transaction fee of 1 to 3% (most do but not all), not only are you getting a lower exchange rate but your home country bank is still going to get its 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee since your withdrawal is ultimately coming from your home country bank account. Now, if the Thai bank ATM don't charge a 150 baht fee for use of the foreign card because you chose to us the Thai bank's exchange rate, then maybe that will offset the probable lower exchange rate. But a person is still going to get hit with his home country bank's 1 to 3% foreign transaction fee. Then the "which is better" math can get even more complicated if the home country bank possibly reimburses ATM fees and/or don't charge a foreign transaction fee.

It's getting to the point now days when using a home country credit/debit/ATM card in a foreign ATM machine, a person needs to take along a lawyer and an accountant to assist and make recommendations while accomplishing the ATM withdrawal. You've probably heard the old saying of "Baffle Them with BS." Well, banks "Baffle Us With Fees" (and vague language, and ever changing polices, and the beat goes on).

[dutchguest]

I had the question last time with a ATM of the Siam Commercial Bank if I would accept the (very low) rate. I said “no”. I got another question if I wanted to continue. I said “yes”. And when I got the money and the receipt it showed that they had used the proposed very low rate in spite of my “no”. The receipt also said I could not reclaim anything with the bank.

So the SCB-bank is finished for me. Kasikorn is generally OK and don't ask this question.

[Sheikhan]

Amazing how everything related banking, exchange rates and ATM withdrawals seems to be some kind of "scam" in Thailand according TV members.

About this ATM and currency conversion "scam" what some of the banks here offers,

It is only for MasterCard, with Visa you will never get any questions when withdrawing money. Simply the ATM will ask, "Do you want to select conversion or continue without conversion".On same screen it shows THB amount, exchange rate and the amount in credit card "home" currency. If you select pay in own currency exchange rate is worse than MasterCard rate, because the rate includes foreign exchange rate mark-up. If you select Thai baht, your credit card issuer will charge foreign exchange fee which is same thing as mark-up. Issuing bank exchange rate fees varies by issuing banks, common is 2-5%.

Once you select to pay that ATM withdrawal in own currency, credit card is charged exactly that amount what is shown in ATM slip and it is charged in your own currency so issuing bank does not collect any foreign exchange rate fees anymore. So there will be no double charge for exchange fee.

This has nothing to do with scamming people. People just don't understand what is it and how the rates are build up. There is always a winner, its the Thai bank or card issuing bank.

[Pib]

Based on Sheikhan's post above, can anyone help clarify whether they have been asked the exchange rate question even when using a card with the "Visa" logo? What about the others who have already posted...did your card have a Mastercard or Visa logo? This would help narrow the issue down a little to whether it's only Mastercard or Visa related, OR, just particular Thai banks.

Personally, I don't think it's a Mastercard or Visa logo issue because I recently used a debit/ATM card with the Mastercard logo. I know for me I rarely use a debit/ATM card from my home country bank's because each one has a 1% foreign transaction fee. I did use a new USAA debt/ATM with "Mastercard" logo in late Dec 10 just to ensure it worked. I used this Mastercard logo card in a Bangkok Bank ATM and I was "not" asked any question about choosing an exchange rate...I was only notified near the end there would a the 150 baht fee.

[dutchguest]

Amazing how everything related banking, exchange rates and ATM withdrawals seems to be some kind of "scam" in Thailand according TV members.

About this ATM and currency conversion "scam" what some of the banks here offers,

It is only for MasterCard, with Visa you will never get any questions when withdrawing money. Simply the ATM will ask, "Do you want to select conversion or continue without conversion".On same screen it shows THB amount, exchange rate and the amount in credit card "home" currency. If you select pay in own currency exchange rate is worse than MasterCard rate, because the rate includes foreign exchange rate mark-up. If you select Thai baht, your credit card issuer will charge foreign exchange fee which is same thing as mark-up. Issuing bank exchange rate fees varies by issuing banks, common is 2-5%.

Once you select to pay that ATM withdrawal in own currency, credit card is charged exactly that amount what is shown in ATM slip and it is charged in your own currency so issuing bank does not collect any foreign exchange rate fees anymore. So there will be no double charge for exchange fee.

This has nothing to do with scamming people. People just don't understand what is it and how the rates are build up. There is always a winner, its the Thai bank or card issuing bank.

The problem is not so much the low rate they offer, the problem is the unclear questioning. I don't know if I remember the words litterally, but the outcome was opposite from what I wanted. And I think the unclearness is purposely.

[Sheikhan]

Based on Sheikhan's post above, can anyone help clarify whether they have been asked the exchange rate question even when using a card with the "Visa" logo? What about the others who have already posted...did your card have a Mastercard or Visa logo? This would help narrow the issue down a little to whether it's only Mastercard or Visa related, OR, just particular Thai banks.

Personally, I don't think it's a Mastercard or Visa logo issue because I recently used a debit/ATM card with the Mastercard logo. I know for me I rarely use a debit/ATM card from my home country bank's because each one has a 1% foreign transaction fee. I did use a new USAA debt/ATM with "Mastercard" logo in late Dec 10 just to ensure it worked. I used this Mastercard logo card in a Bangkok Bank ATM and I was "not" asked any question about choosing an exchange rate...I was only notified near the end there would a the 150 baht fee.

If your credit card is Visa you will not get asked for currency conversion in ATM transactions. Visa does not allow that. However if you pay something with Visa card in department store or restaurant you might get asked, "do you want to use this conversion to pay in your home currency".

For ATM transactions this currency conversion is available only for MasterCard credit cards in certain banks ATMs which use this service. It's in use worldwide, not only in Thailand.

Always use AEON ATM to withdraw money if you want to save that 150 THB per ATM transaction.

[Pib]

Based on Sheikhan's post above, can anyone help clarify whether they have been asked the exchange rate question even when using a card with the "Visa" logo? What about the others who have already posted...did your card have a Mastercard or Visa logo? This would help narrow the issue down a little to whether it's only Mastercard or Visa related, OR, just particular Thai banks.

Personally, I don't think it's a Mastercard or Visa logo issue because I recently used a debit/ATM card with the Mastercard logo. I know for me I rarely use a debit/ATM card from my home country bank's because each one has a 1% foreign transaction fee. I did use a new USAA debt/ATM with "Mastercard" logo in late Dec 10 just to ensure it worked. I used this Mastercard logo card in a Bangkok Bank ATM and I was "not" asked any question about choosing an exchange rate...I was only notified near the end there would a the 150 baht fee.

If your credit card is Visa you will not get asked for currency conversion in ATM transactions. Visa does not allow that. However if you pay something with Visa card in department store or restaurant you might get asked, "do you want to use this conversion to pay in your home currency".

For ATM transactions this currency conversion is available only for MasterCard credit cards in certain banks ATMs which use this service. It's in use worldwide, not only in Thailand.

Always use AEON ATM to withdraw money if you want to save that 150 THB per ATM transaction.

Thanks. That sounds more like it...varies depending on card, location of use, and type of use/purchase versus purely being a card logo issue or a Thai bank issue. Almost like spining a game show wheel...will the wheel stop on a number this time thats asks me a currency conversion related question?

Yeap, AEON is the way to go to avoid the 150 baht fee, but unfortunately these machines are not very numerous throughout the country unless you live in certain locations....not like a Thai bank ATM machine literally being on every street corner, in every mall/market, etc. Sometimes I think Thai banks want to put an ATM into every home. Cheers.

[Nisa]

Based on Sheikhan's post above, can anyone help clarify whether they have been asked the exchange rate question even when using a card with the "Visa" logo? What about the others who have already posted...did your card have a Mastercard or Visa logo? This would help narrow the issue down a little to whether it's only Mastercard or Visa related, OR, just particular Thai banks.

Personally, I don't think it's a Mastercard or Visa logo issue because I recently used a debit/ATM card with the Mastercard logo. I know for me I rarely use a debit/ATM card from my home country bank's because each one has a 1% foreign transaction fee. I did use a new USAA debt/ATM with "Mastercard" logo in late Dec 10 just to ensure it worked. I used this Mastercard logo card in a Bangkok Bank ATM and I was "not" asked any question about choosing an exchange rate...I was only notified near the end there would a the 150 baht fee.

If your credit card is Visa you will not get asked for currency conversion in ATM transactions. Visa does not allow that. However if you pay something with Visa card in department store or restaurant you might get asked, "do you want to use this conversion to pay in your home currency".

For ATM transactions this currency conversion is available only for MasterCard credit cards in certain banks ATMs which use this service. It's in use worldwide, not only in Thailand.

Always use AEON ATM to withdraw money if you want to save that 150 THB per ATM transaction.

Just to be clear ... you are saying AEON (http://www.aeon.co.th/lang/en/menu/Service_Location/region/off/option/atm#branchATMForm) doesn't charge the 150 baht? I thought this was like a government mandate.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

always answer in the negative the dynamic rate is lower than the general bank rate.

Correct. I've done a lot of double transactions to compare. I guess it depends on your home bank variable XE rates, but I'm batting 0/8 on saving money by taking the ATM conversion rate offered.

Bank of Ayutthaya offers you a choice of 150 baht/transaction or a lower exchange rate.

How much lower? I've never been offered this at Bank of Ayutthaya...

If your credit card is Visa you will not get asked for currency conversion in ATM transactions. Visa does not allow that.

For ATM transactions this currency conversion is available only for MasterCard credit cards in certain banks ATMs which use this service. It's in use worldwide, not only in Thailand.

Nonsense. Both my VISAs are hitting me with it at every ATM now.

[Pib]

Just to be clear ... you are saying AEON (http://www.aeon.co.t...m#branchATMForm) doesn't charge the 150 baht? I thought this was like a government mandate.

Nope, AEON don't charge the 150 baht fee. No govt mandate to charge the 150 baht...in fact a few months back the govt tried to get Thai banks to stop charging the fee to help out with tourism...a fee the banks started charging a year or two ago. Initially one bank started charging the fee, then another, then another, and over about a 3 month period all Thai banks jump on the new 150 baht fee bandwagon, with the exception of AEON which is actually not a Thai bank. Nope, it's purely a fee the banks charge to make more profit.

Edited January 26, 2011 by Pib

[Nisa]

Just to be clear ... you are saying AEON (http://www.aeon.co.t...m#branchATMForm) doesn't charge the 150 baht? I thought this was like a government mandate.

Nope, AEON don't charge the 150 baht fee. No govt mandate to charge the 150 baht...in fact a few months back the govt tried to get Thai banks to stop charging the fee...a fee the banks started charging a year or two ago. Initially one bank started charging the fee, then another, then another, and over about a 3 month period all Thai banks jump on the new 150 baht fee bandwagon, with the exception of AEON which is actually not a Thai bank. Nope, it's purely a fee the banks charge to make more profit.

Thanks for the info. I remember when I wouldn't get charged and then it seemed EVERY bank had the fee and remembered reading about it. That is why I thought it was some kind of mandated charge. I will surely get a little more familiar with the AEON ATMs around my area to better take advantage of them. It just gets so ridiculous the way you are nickel and dimed on each side of an ATM / Debit Card transaction when ATMs and Debit Cards actually save the banks money. Can you imagine what it would be like if we all went back to paying cash and having to go into the bank to do all our banking and access cash? It is not uncommon for me to go a year+ without having to go into my bank or deal with any human from the bank.

[Pib]

always answer in the negative the dynamic rate is lower than the general bank rate.

Correct. I've done a lot of double transactions to compare. I guess it depends on your home bank variable XE rates, but I'm batting 0/8 on saving money by taking the ATM conversion rate offered.

Ain't it great how in a bank vs customer game, the bank always wins.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

always answer in the negative the dynamic rate is lower than the general bank rate.

Correct. I've done a lot of double transactions to compare. I guess it depends on your home bank variable XE rates, but I'm batting 0/8 on saving money by taking the ATM conversion rate offered.

Ain't it great how in a bank vs customer game, the bank always wins.

Well, in my defence, I'm pretty sure I knew the 'deal' the second they offered it as an option.

So, if I may claim the Wins against myself, that would be more appropriate. Hmm ignore the scoreboard please and just focus on the nonsense logic...kk

[JimGant]

Once you select to pay that ATM withdrawal in own currency, credit card is charged exactly that amount what is shown in ATM slip and it is charged in your own currency so issuing bank does not collect any foreign exchange rate fees anymore. So there will be no double charge for exchange fee.

Nonsense. Issuing banks -- and the Visa and MC networks (PLUS and Cirrus)--are not losing any fees when the merchant, or ATM owner and his servicing bank, opt to offer you DCC (or worse, and against the rules, NOT offer, but just stick it to you). In fact, what was once called a 'foreign conversion fee' is now with DCC called a 'foreign transaction fee' ('cause Visa and MC are no longer doing the conversion -- just the transaction). You'll still be charged the 1% 'foreign transaction fee' that Visa and MC charge your issuing bank (unless, like Schwab, they choose to absorb it). And, if your issuing bank tacks on a 1-3% foreign transaction fee of their own, that certainly doesn't evaporate under DCC. Nor any flat fee your issuing bank charges.

So, under DCC, you're still paying the same percentage fees as before -- although now they're a percentage of a HIGHER exchange rate, thus more local currency cost to your bank account. And, of course, the ATM owner (or merchant, if we're talking POS) and his servicing bank are getting reimbursed with more baht than otherwise (because of the lower DCC conversion rate) had Visa or MC done the conversion at the interbank exchange rate. This "spread" is pure gravy, to be split on the Thai end. Visa/MC and your issuing bank are happy too, as they certainly haven't taken a hit -- and are actually pocketing more of your money because the percentage fees are now off a higher conversion rate.

[Pib]

Banks sure like lots gravy on top of their current pile of fees...makes it lip-smacking good!

[TheyCallmeScooter]

POS - piece of s...ugar!

[Sheikhan]

Nonsense. Issuing banks -- and the Visa and MC networks (PLUS and Cirrus)--are not losing any fees when the merchant, or ATM owner and his servicing bank, opt to offer you DCC (or worse, and against the rules, NOT offer, but just stick it to you). In fact, what was once called a 'foreign conversion fee' is now with DCC called a 'foreign transaction fee' ('cause Visa and MC are no longer doing the conversion -- just the transaction). You'll still be charged the 1% 'foreign transaction fee' that Visa and MC charge your issuing bank (unless, like Schwab, they choose to absorb it). And, if your issuing bank tacks on a 1-3% foreign transaction fee of their own, that certainly doesn't evaporate under DCC. Nor any flat fee your issuing bank charges.

Visa/Master will always charge fee from banks which use their network on any transaction. Visa/Master don't lose anything if the DCC (dynamic currency conversion) is used. But in fact they make less money if it's used.

Let say that you have MasterCard, issued by US bank and your base currency is USD. You walk to ATM in Thailand and withdraw 10,000 THB. ATM offers you exchange rate of 30 THB = 1 USD and shows that your transaction total will be 333.33 USD. You select the conversion and get your 10,000 THB. Local bank what ATM you use will charge your card 333.33 USD and that is the amount what is shown in your credit card statement. If your credit card issuer will charge any exchange rate fee from your base currency transaction, they are screwing you.