Probe Into Riot Deaths Is Independent: Thailand DSI Chief

[webfact]

Probe into riot deaths is independent: DSI chief

By THE NATION

The head of the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) yesterday defended his agency's handling of its investigation into the death of 91 people during riots by protesting red shirts last year as "independent and straightforward".

DSI director-general Tharit Pengdit rejected claims by a foreign lawyer hired by fugitive former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra that its probe into the unrest was biased.

Canadian lawyer Robert Amsterdam claimed on Monday the DSI often blamed the red shirts for deaths in which there was no clear evidence to determine the culprits.

Tharit said that the 89 deaths investigated by his agency were divided into three groups.

Deaths in the first group were caused by grenades fired from M-79 grenade launchers - the "weapon of choice by red-shirt hardliners". Police and soldiers involved in the protest dispersal operation were not armed with grenade launchers, he said.

But a number of red-shirt guards known as "men in black" were arrested in connection with grenade attacks targeting security officers and civilians.

Tharit said 13 deaths in the second group were suspected to have been caused by government security officers. Initial findings by the DSI had been forwarded to police for further autopsies on bodies and possible indictments of those involved.

In the third group, Tharit said, no suspects had been determined due to lack of evidence and witnesses.

"The DSI has conducted our investigations independently and straightforwardly. The fact that the deaths are divided into three groups points to our transparency," he said.

Amsterdam, representing the red shirts, on Monday filed a notice |with the International Criminal Court (ICC) in The Hague for a potential case of crime against humanity allegedly committed by the Thai government during the unrest in April and May last year.

Those killed during the riots included soldiers, police, foreign cameramen, rescue workers, and passers-by.

Meanwhile, Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban yesterday shrugged off the court notice filed by Thaksin's lawyer, saying it was just "an attempt to rip off some billionaire".

Suthep said the lawyer had made claims against Thailand and warned that legal action would be taken against Thaksin's lawyer if he was found to have broken the law.

"He does not love justice but rather he loves to get the wages from his client," Suthep said.

-- The Nation 2011-02-02

[asiawatcher]

Couldn't agree more - Amsterdam is only in this for money and more exposure - and he will continue to 'fleece' his client as is his nature. But I hope the ICC will throw it out of court as already having been investigated by DSI and the ICC agree with the conclusions.

[random]

If suthep is 100% certain he and his party did no wrong maybe the best stance to take is not sarcasm and snide remarks, maybe the better stance would be to say 'we would welcome and investigation into these incidents and are confident they will find in our favour'.

but the fact is he knows an independent inquiry will not find in their favour on a lot of the deaths so he goes down that well worn path the dems take of nonchalance in the knowledge they can side step a few land mines with the help of certain people in Thailand and hide behind legal arguments rather than factual arguments into the events. this really is one despicable man.

Hopefully some good will come out of this, as for ripping off a billionaire, it is comments like this that do neither him or other people who repeat them and favours at all, if Amsterdam has evidence of wrongdoing then it should be heard, that is the point of a legal system, to work the legal system you need lawyers, and to have lawyers you need to pay, i refer suthep to his parties recent use of lawyers to get charges thrown lout rather than have to answer them in court, were those lawyers just ripping of their clients or were they doing what they were paid to do.

There will come a time suthep when you have nowhere left to hide and you will have to answer some hard questions about the deaths last year and I am sure at that time some smart arse answers or comments like these will not do you any favours. he tries to come across as some sort of tough guy that has no fears, well if you have no fears for your actions call a full INDEPENDENT inquiry into the events last year and live or die by the findings, then we will see what sort of man you really are rather than the coward we see now hiding from his actions and trying to deflect blame anywhere apart from where it actually lays.

Hopefully Amsterdams actions will bring evidence one way or the other, either for or against then we can move on from this sorry tale.

[whybother]

<snip>

Hopefully Amsterdams actions will bring evidence one way or the other, either for or against then we can move on from this sorry tale.

Amsterdam has no evidence. He has conjecture, half truths and lies. He has basically published everything that he has, and it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

[Asa]

DSI Chief did not hesitate to point his finger at the men in black for the killing, because M79 is their weapon of choice. While he only suspects some to have been caused by Government officers. ??? I need more clean air here.

[jayjay0]

If suthep is 100% certain he and his party did no wrong maybe the best stance to take is not sarcasm and snide remarks, maybe the better stance would be to say 'we would welcome and investigation into these incidents and are confident they will find in our favour'.

but the fact is he knows an independent inquiry will not find in their favour on a lot of the deaths so he goes down that well worn path the dems take of nonchalance in the knowledge they can side step a few land mines with the help of certain people in Thailand and hide behind legal arguments rather than factual arguments into the events. this really is one despicable man.

Hopefully some good will come out of this, as for ripping off a billionaire, it is comments like this that do neither him or other people who repeat them and favours at all, if Amsterdam has evidence of wrongdoing then it should be heard, that is the point of a legal system, to work the legal system you need lawyers, and to have lawyers you need to pay, i refer suthep to his parties recent use of lawyers to get charges thrown lout rather than have to answer them in court, were those lawyers just ripping of their clients or were they doing what they were paid to do.

There will come a time suthep when you have nowhere left to hide and you will have to answer some hard questions about the deaths last year and I am sure at that time some smart arse answers or comments like these will not do you any favours. he tries to come across as some sort of tough guy that has no fears, well if you have no fears for your actions call a full INDEPENDENT inquiry into the events last year and live or die by the findings, then we will see what sort of man you really are rather than the coward we see now hiding from his actions and trying to deflect blame anywhere apart from where it actually lays.

Hopefully Amsterdams actions will bring evidence one way or the other, either for or against then we can move on from this sorry tale.

Maybe I was asleep but I seem to have dreamed it I guess.

In my dream there was 91 deaths caused by a illegal seizure of Parts of Thailand and a refusal to move out. In my dream there was a group calling them selves the red shirts who would not even negotiate all they would do is demand. This group was armed with weapons they had built barricades to hide behind.They even invaded hospitals a clear violation of the Geneva convention. They like any other army or Gorilla group had built up a civilian support group. Now that is some thing that takes planning ahead of there actions.

The dream seemed so real.The real nightmarish part of it was that they tried to burn Bangkok down and people tried to blame the government for all that they did. They justified these red shirts actions.

[Bakseedaa]

If suthep is 100% certain he and his party did no wrong maybe the best stance to take is not sarcasm and snide remarks, maybe the better stance would be to say 'we would welcome and investigation into these incidents and are confident they will find in our favour'.

but the fact is he knows an independent inquiry will not find in their favour on a lot of the deaths so he goes down that well worn path the dems take of nonchalance in the knowledge they can side step a few land mines with the help of certain people in Thailand and hide behind legal arguments rather than factual arguments into the events. this really is one despicable man.

Hopefully some good will come out of this, as for ripping off a billionaire, it is comments like this that do neither him or other people who repeat them and favours at all, if Amsterdam has evidence of wrongdoing then it should be heard, that is the point of a legal system, to work the legal system you need lawyers, and to have lawyers you need to pay, i refer suthep to his parties recent use of lawyers to get charges thrown lout rather than have to answer them in court, were those lawyers just ripping of their clients or were they doing what they were paid to do.

There will come a time suthep when you have nowhere left to hide and you will have to answer some hard questions about the deaths last year and I am sure at that time some smart arse answers or comments like these will not do you any favours. he tries to come across as some sort of tough guy that has no fears, well if you have no fears for your actions call a full INDEPENDENT inquiry into the events last year and live or die by the findings, then we will see what sort of man you really are rather than the coward we see now hiding from his actions and trying to deflect blame anywhere apart from where it actually lays.

Hopefully Amsterdams actions will bring evidence one way or the other, either for or against then we can move on from this sorry tale.

The terrorist whom posed as innocent Red Shirts, were told time and time again to leave their encampment, what they were doing there was criminal , dangerous and illegal... what more could society do to retake this area of Bangkok so as to allow regular Bangkok peoples the freedom of their own city. In my humble opinion, the army and security forces waited too long to clear out those lawbreakers and return Bangkok to lawfull citizens. Som nam naa..................

[Roadman]

If suthep is 100% certain he and his party did no wrong maybe the best stance to take is not sarcasm and snide remarks, maybe the better stance would be to say 'we would welcome and investigation into these incidents and are confident they will find in our favour'.

but the fact is he knows an independent inquiry will not find in their favour on a lot of the deaths so he goes down that well worn path the dems take of nonchalance in the knowledge they can side step a few land mines with the help of certain people in Thailand and hide behind legal arguments rather than factual arguments into the events. this really is one despicable man.

Hopefully some good will come out of this, as for ripping off a billionaire, it is comments like this that do neither him or other people who repeat them and favours at all, if Amsterdam has evidence of wrongdoing then it should be heard, that is the point of a legal system, to work the legal system you need lawyers, and to have lawyers you need to pay, i refer suthep to his parties recent use of lawyers to get charges thrown lout rather than have to answer them in court, were those lawyers just ripping of their clients or were they doing what they were paid to do.

There will come a time suthep when you have nowhere left to hide and you will have to answer some hard questions about the deaths last year and I am sure at that time some smart arse answers or comments like these will not do you any favours. he tries to come across as some sort of tough guy that has no fears, well if you have no fears for your actions call a full INDEPENDENT inquiry into the events last year and live or die by the findings, then we will see what sort of man you really are rather than the coward we see now hiding from his actions and trying to deflect blame anywhere apart from where it actually lays.

Hopefully Amsterdams actions will bring evidence one way or the other, either for or against then we can move on from this sorry tale.

Maybe I was asleep but I seem to have dreamed it I guess.

In my dream there was 91 deaths caused by a illegal seizure of Parts of Thailand and a refusal to move out. In my dream there was a group calling them selves the red shirts who would not even negotiate all they would do is demand. This group was armed with weapons they had built barricades to hide behind.They even invaded hospitals a clear violation of the Geneva convention. They like any other army or Gorilla group had built up a civilian support group. Now that is some thing that takes planning ahead of there actions.

The dream seemed so real.The real nightmarish part of it was that they tried to burn Bangkok down and people tried to blame the government for all that they did. They justified these red shirts actions.

In my dream there was also the bit where "the Men in Black with free range among the Reds ranks (strange that) who started the whole chain of events with the murder's of an Army command post". But yeah same dream.

Suthep knows the buck stops with him and he has made calls where citizens have died. Such is the only choice when a terrorist force is folding your country to ransom, and then turn down your offers of acceptance to those terrorists demands for even something as worthy as a free election. At least he had the balls to make them hard calls unlike the last couple of Thaksin plants who didn't.

[jayboy]

<snip>

Hopefully Amsterdams actions will bring evidence one way or the other, either for or against then we can move on from this sorry tale.

Amsterdam has no evidence. He has conjecture, half truths and lies. He has basically published everything that he has, and it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Absolutely.What a perceptive post.I think the main objective is that we should all concentrate on rubbishing Amsterdam as much as ossible ,throwing in the odd anti semitic slur if necessary (as in the case of that great novelist S.P Somtow.)Obviously no attention should be paid to the underlying charges as everbody knows the Reds murdered themselves when they weren't murdering the security forces.Amsterdam is in the pay of Thaksin who in turn paid those Red peasants to go ape.What's more they made life very inconvenient for those of us that adore swanning with our partners around Gaysorn Plaza and the ilk.Furthermore as for the dead, who gives a dam. We should get on with our lives in the knowledge that there is an official enquiry proceeding with great speed and diligence.I'm getting tired of those who criticise the Thai army which has a long and noble history of embracing accountability and avoiding coverups: if they made any mistakes - which they almost certainly didn't - they would fess up in the spirit of transparency for which they are known.

[jdinasia]

Jayboy almost got it right. (Hooray!)

The fact that there were armed members of the reds (call them men in black or anything else -- they were armed and in with the reds) isn't being denied by anyone BUT Amsterdam. Amsterdam's interview where he stated publicly to Al Jazeera that he had never even heard a rumor that Thaksin was paying for the reds and the protests show exactly how credible anything else he states will be, That he went on in that interview, when pressed by the journalist, to state that it didn't matter if Thaksin was paying is quite telling. That Amsterdam ignores the escalating violence of the reds is also quite damning.

This thread is about the probe --- it doesn't appear to be whitewashing the army NOR putting all the blame on the reds. The fact that this enquiry is proceeding and put some blame on the military very simply means it will not fall under the jurisdiction of the ICC at all even if the UN Security council got involved. (and we all know THAT won't happen!)

So far, we have Amsterdam's stories --- that he admits are not in fact the direct truth etc ... Personally I would be more interested in hearing what has come out of the confessions by those that have been caught, but I don't think we will get all of that info for a long time. Those that have turned on their former comrades, hopefully, were connected enough to give some up some of the bigger players on the redshirt side. The players that actually armed and funded the shooters.

[SomTumTiger]

Responsibiity for the deaths lie with one man only - Thaksin Shinawatra. He bought and paid for the.protesters and leaders, and was foiled by a military that didn't overreact as they had in past decades. Thaksin lost last May - Thailand and Thai people and stabilty were the winners.

[truethailand]

<snip>

Hopefully Amsterdams actions will bring evidence one way or the other, either for or against then we can move on from this sorry tale.

Amsterdam has no evidence. He has conjecture, half truths and lies. He has basically published everything that he has, and it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

You sound like Suthep. I cannot think of any other individual who more represents all that is bad about Thailand.

[jdinasia]

Responsibiity for the deaths lie with one man only - Thaksin Shinawatra. He bought and paid for the.protesters and leaders, and was foiled by a military that didn't overreact as they had in past decades. Thaksin lost last May - Thailand and Thai people and stabilty were the winners.

Sorry, but although I do see the slow and steady approach used by the government as a step forward for Thailand. EVERYONE lost by the deaths and destruction in 2010. Thaksin would appear to have lost the most, but everyone did lose.

[whybother]

<snip>

Hopefully Amsterdams actions will bring evidence one way or the other, either for or against then we can move on from this sorry tale.

Amsterdam has no evidence. He has conjecture, half truths and lies. He has basically published everything that he has, and it isn't worth the paper it's written on.

You sound like Suthep. I cannot think of any other individual who more represents all that is bad about Thailand.

And what does Amsterdam represent?