Vientiane Double Visa: Three Strikes And You'Re Out!

[crazydrummerpauly]

..... But remember that, if you spend more than 180 days in Thailand in a tax year (same as calendar year), you are tax resident in Thailand and need to pay tax on any income earned offshore that is remitted to Thailand within 12 months of earning it.

Woohoooo! THAT statement will get some sphincters puckering!

There's a 'drummer' on this thread who, by his own admission must be up for a few hundred grand in back taxes.

Anyone know the Thai equivalent of a CPA?

Nah, not on your nelly. "Income earned offshore that is remitted to Thailand within 12 months of earning it" - haven't earned a penny in over 5 years, offshore or in the country. There are many many ways someone might have a few quid in the bank or under the mattress from years back - ever sold a house before the crash ?

[aNoma]

crazydrummerpauly ---> Yes! If I was a Thai reading this forum I'd have the impression that farangs just hate each other and fight. We should stick together and support the farang community in a creative and civilized way, gather useful information and intelligently solve any issues. Instead it looks sometimes like a bunch of arguing kids throwing stuff at each other, one trying to prove to be more important than another. What a war of egos! haha

[Richard4849]

Otherwise, your arguments are solid sir. People shouldn't try and make a visa that wasn't designed to fit their circumstances fit and then cry when their toes get pinched.

I don't agree (and I am NOT one of those people). From what I see, there was a certain system functioning thus created and approved, by the Thai government, for years.

It was legal and accepted. If, all of the sudden, this gets changed, you can't blame people expressing their displeasure since it's affecting their lives. Thailand thrives on tourist industry and would never be where it is now without it.

So, personally, I feel sorry for all those affected. If anything, how were those long term 'tourists' hurting Thailand? I think if anything, they were contributing by spending their money. I think it would be wise to give some alternative to those people, and not let it affect people like me, who have nothing to do with it yet I am having problems with getting a visa for absolutely no reason other than superficially having been to Thailand two times I am blacklisted.

Whatever is being done with the visa getting process, it is oversimplified by crude cutting the corners, thus creating a mess. Something should have been done, if needed to be done, after giving it a more through thought.

And I stand by the word - how it affected me is idiotic.

And one more thing that makes it very different - the Westerner coming to Thailand and Thai going to the West. A Westerner can't immigrate her and get a citizenship the same way a Thai or another national can tin the USA or Canada (for example). How many Westerners have Thai citizenship or permanent residency status? Isn't this whole fuss about not being able to get it???

There is a PR and citizenship track in Thailand -- I should know, I've taken it (successfully). Everyone I know to have applied has received it. The problem is, not too many people can be bothered to go through the process because it has been so easy just to slack by on visa runs.

What we're talking about here, though, is the perceived entitlement by some people here to be able to stay in Thailand indefinitely on an endless series of TOURIST VISAS.

Not only is this possible for Thais in any Western country, it is also not possible for ANY nationality -- no matter how wealthy. A Japanese cannot go to the US as a tourist visa and make visa runs forever. A Swiss cannot go to Australia as a tourist and make visa runs forever.

Why on earth would anyone expect to be able to do it in Thailand is completely beyond me. How much money you spend in Thailand is completely irrelevant -- as it would be to US immigration if they were confronted by a visa-running "tourist" attempting to stay in the US forever, even if they spend half a million dollars a year.

It's not possible there, it's not possible here, it's not possible ANYWHERE that I know of -- yet Thailand's policies are somehow "idiotic" and "moronic".

[tropo]

The multi-entry tourist visa does serve a purpsoe for realtourists who wish to spend the majority of their time in Thailand but make side-trips to neigboring countries.

There is no multi-entry TR.

There is a single, double, and triple entry version.

Non-immigration visas can be granted with a 'multi-entry' option, allowing one to come and go as one pleases before the 'use before' date.

Tourist visas don't have this option, only single, double, and triple.

Are you chasing me around, or have you taken on the position of thread anal retentive?

Allow me to clear up your confusion.

For the purposes of NanLaew's discussion we have grouped double and triple entry visas into the informal term of "multi-entry" visas, because obviously they do allow multi-entry as opposed to one entry.

Next thing you'll be correcting my spelling and grammatical errors.

[tropo]

Thank you for the superb, enlightened advice -

You're welcome.

[Richard4849]

"Multiple" can mean "more than one". It doesn't have to mean "unlimited". Right, children?

[tropo]

Thailand should stop issuing the multi-entry option of the Tourist visa IMHO. It was invented at a time when it was envisaged that the genuine tourist could base themselves in Bangkok and visit other regional tourist attractions. The world is a different place now and the current reality of immigration law abuse is the end product.

The multi-entry tourist visa does serve a purpsoe for realtourists who wish to spend the majority of their time in Thailand but make side-trips to neigboring countries.

OK, well.... there's you then. Who is the other one?

LOL, no, that's not me. I used double entry tourist visas to live in Thailand until I hit 50.

[aNoma]

Richard - I totally agree with that. Most countries don't allow that. Thailand has been unique in this matter of letting people do the visa runs for years. This is why so many people came and stayed here. And I think it was good for Thailand. I also think it would still be good for Thailand, and I don't understand the reason and logic's for this sudden change in policy. What I called idiotic is the fact that this new rules are put into action without seems like considering all involved, and that includes regular tourists. What bothers me, and and what I referred to as 'idiotic', is how this new policy is implemented - simply counting how many previous visa sticker you have. I got a 60 days visa sticker, and they counted it as 'one'. It didn't matter that I stayed in Thailand only 2 weeks instead of the full 2 months, and the other one was from a previous year and followed by a month in Laos, then Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia. Obviously - I am not making back to back visa run!

So, I am addressing and calling 'idiotic' the mindless implementation of this new policy. It is inconsiderate to me, inconsiderate to those who have been in the country for longer period of time - because Thailand allowed them to do it! In this context, so what this might not be possible elsewhere. it was here, for a very long time, so an excuse of 'in other countries you can't do it' so they all off the sudden scrap it just doesn't cut as civilized and considerate of people who built their lives here. It's almost like a call for repatriation, not a very humanitarian thing to do. I really feel sorry for all those people. And sure, some got that citizenship, some didn't. But Thailand allowed this type of life and the visa runs, so it should take some responsibility for it now. Let's say tell people - take care of your affairs, because we will be implementing such rule in 6, 12, or whatever months. I can't hide the impression that people being treated like and inanimate objects, and certainly this doesn't impress me. It makes me want to be cynical.

In my argument, I could have just used 'inconsiderate and unreasonable' instead of 'idiotic'. We have this part solved then now, ok?

So, my beef is with how this visa sticker policy is being implemented. It seems like you could be twice in Thailand for combined period of two weeks and be rejected because you have two stickers.

And I find this inconsiderate and unreasonable. I have no problem with Thailand saying at one point - enough, we are going to change our policies. It's their country. But I am disappointed in this being done the way it is, especially in the recent 'pro-democracy' context.

I also want to mention, that it is much easier to judge others by the people who got their lives secure here. You were lucky, smarter, or whatever, than those others. Good for you. Why not to help those weaker but not bad out there, those stuck in uncertain situation, consider help and give a practical advise. Bashing and intellectualizing will make someone feel good, self-assured of having control over your own life and perhaps a bit of intoxication on the feeling of being powerful. ButnNo matter what, almost anyone of us can end up in dire straits one day, willingly or not, and I am sure any help and compassion offered in a difficult situation would be returned one day. That's the theory of making lives of people happier, at least, and this place a better one. Understanding, consideration, and help in resolving bad happenings. Can you expect that from a government, by definition of it? It would be great if we could do it at least in this small expat community.

Edited February 10, 2011 by aNoma

[jazzbo]

re: Kuhn a @ 278 from the screenplay of My Cousin Vinny (Vinny -- Joe Pesci)

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Mr. Gambini?

Vinny Gambini: Yes, sir?

Judge Chamberlain Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Vinny Gambini: Thank you, sir.

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Overruled.

[ozzieovaseas]

Nice Post Anoma (post 278)

It is a shame that some people here have the "im ok jack" attitude and get their kicks out of kicking those who were once "one of their own".

It appears that the people you describe as being "secure" here have well and truelly joined some other camp and in doing so have embraced some of the worst of both worlds.

And why would'nt they? Especially when part of becoming a Thai national requires one to give up ones own nationality/citizenship. Correct me if wrong but I don't think this policy is widespread throughout the world? most countries allow you to have dual citizenship?

Anyway, off topic, but it can explain the pure nastiness that seems to have reared its ugly head on this thread. I guess many would not be prepared to give up the rights of their former lives in their own country, only to still be treated like an outsider here.

For me to relinquish my own citizenship i would have to have nothing and no-one left in my own country to go back to, and i guess that in itself would'nt make me the happiest of punters.

Still i agree with you, its a shame we can't for once have a bit more empathy for other people that obviously love Thailand as much as the "secure" ones do, but can't (or havent got the means to) slip into a visa status more appropriate then "perpetual" tourist .

Actually for those of us who are 40+ it will be interesting to see if, after the next few years events, we will actually even WANT to retire in Thailand.

[Mario2008]

A lot of European countries do not allow one to retain your original nationality if you opt for their nationality, nor do they allow you to opt for another nationality and keep your nationality of birth, execept under certain circumstances.

[jazzbo]

Kuhn Ozzie: As a jaded New Yorker might put it, 'Empathy' and a subway token gets you a ride.

As far as getting a visa for the under non-married, et. etc. under 50-crowd, the Non-IMM 'O' offered by Hull for UK / EU citizens for Volunteering may be about the best thing going and not one of you bemoaning the current Thai visa availability status has mentioned going for it ...

Edited February 10, 2011 by jazzbo

[appropriate]

You are 100% wrong

In what regard?

Sorry, I didn't see the answer to this.

Can you please quote where I was wrong so it can be clarified as such. Wouldn't be good for people who need correct visa information to read something that's wrong.

Thanks.

[appropriate]

Kuhn Ozzie: As a jaded New Yorker might put it, 'Empathy' and a subway token gets you a ride.

As far as getting a visa for the under non-married, et. etc. under 50-crowd, the Non-IMM 'O' offered by Hull for UK / EU citizens for Volunteering may be about the best thing going and not one of you bemoaning the current Thai visa availability status has mentioned going for it ...

Many who are forced to do Tourist visa runs to Laos to live here probably can't afford to fly to England for a few days though.

[david555]

A lot of European countries do not allow one to retain your original nationality if you opt for their nationality, nor do they allow you to opt for another nationality and keep your nationality of birth, execept under certain circumstances.

TRUE, my country (Belgium) does not allow us "originals " to have double nationality , but all the "new immigrant ones" can have double nationality , .....there goesus to be equal by law ...

[DumFarang]

Kuhn Ozzie: As a jaded New Yorker might put it, 'Empathy' and a subway token gets you a ride.

As far as getting a visa for the under non-married, et. etc. under 50-crowd, the Non-IMM 'O' offered by Hull for UK / EU citizens for Volunteering may be about the best thing going and not one of you bemoaning the current Thai visa availability status has mentioned going for it ...

Many who are forced to do Tourist visa runs to Laos to live here probably can't afford to fly to England for a few days though.

Actually, one trip back home to apply for a non-immigrant visa can be the same price as doing multiple visa runs to Laos or Malaysia. I've done Penang, Malaysia many times and I finally just started going home all way the back to the U.S. for a Non-O b/c I would spend at least 10,000 baht going to Penang every three months. Now I just run over to Burma for a fraction of the price of the Penang runs I did, and you can squeeze 15 months out of it by doing one more run before the visa expires. It's practically the same price when viewed as a yearly sum, and then there's the gained sanity. The only difference is coughing up more than a $1,000 at one time or spreading it out over the year.

[appropriate]

Kuhn Ozzie: As a jaded New Yorker might put it, 'Empathy' and a subway token gets you a ride.

As far as getting a visa for the under non-married, et. etc. under 50-crowd, the Non-IMM 'O' offered by Hull for UK / EU citizens for Volunteering may be about the best thing going and not one of you bemoaning the current Thai visa availability status has mentioned going for it ...

Many who are forced to do Tourist visa runs to Laos to live here probably can't afford to fly to England for a few days though.

Actually, one trip back home to apply for a non-immigrant visa can be the same price as doing multiple visa runs to Laos or Malaysia. I've done Penang, Malaysia many times and I finally just started going home all way the back to the U.S. for a Non-O b/c I would spend at least 10,000 baht going to Penang every three months. Now I just run over to Burma for a fraction of the price of the Penang runs I did, and you can squeeze 15 months out of it by doing one more run before the visa expires. It's practically the same price when viewed as a yearly sum, and then there's the gained sanity. The only difference is coughing up more than a $1,000 at one time or spreading it out over the year.

Yup, true.

Although many can't afford to spend that much in one lump sum, especially with many working illegally for very small wages, spreading it out over a year is the only way they can afford to do.

[easybullet3]

Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas.

Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system.

Should really make it a limit of 2, not 3. Or even a limit of one in neighbouring countries.

Excuse me? - not everyone with multiple Toursit Visa's are abusers!!

If you would be so kind, please suggest what I should do?

I have my own money. I am 37 years old and I live here with my Son (who goes to International School)..

I don't work, so I don't have any Work Visa.

Its a real hassle to do a visa-run every few months, but I have been doing it continuously (for about 4 years). I have never had any problem in Vientiane or Hong Kong, Penang, or any place.

for 4 years, I haven't taken one Baht from the thai economy... and I wont tell you how much money I have spent here in 4 years either!

I would say that I have contributed in a good manner to Thailand.

So please don't call people like me "abusers of the system". I would happily do it another way if you can suggest it to me.

[lopburi3]

Is your son Thai? Do you have custody?

[appropriate]

Tourists don't need 4 Tourist visas.

Good to see them cracking down on people illegally abusing the system.

Should really make it a limit of 2, not 3. Or even a limit of one in neighbouring countries.

Excuse me? - not everyone with multiple Toursit Visa's are abusers!!

If you would be so kind, please suggest what I should do?

I have my own money. I am 37 years old and I live here with my Son (who goes to International School)..

I don't work, so I don't have any Work Visa.

Its a real hassle to do a visa-run every few months, but I have been doing it continuously (for about 4 years). I have never had any problem in Vientiane or Hong Kong, Penang, or any place.

for 4 years, I haven't taken one Baht from the thai economy... and I wont tell you how much money I have spent here in 4 years either!

I would say that I have contributed in a good manner to Thailand.

So please don't call people like me "abusers of the system". I would happily do it another way if you can suggest it to me.

Non-imm O based on visiting your child (Thai citizen?)?

As you're not working here, don't have any business here, how about giving back to community, 4 hrs a week of volunteering and the visa that this allows should more than make up for having to do those hellish visa runs?

[Mario2008]

If you son is Thai you can apply as a dependent of him if you have custody and lives with you, if he is not Thai you can apply as a dependent of him based on his education.

[appropriate]

If you son is Thai you can apply as a dependent of him if you have custody and lives with you, if he is not Thai you can apply as a dependent of him based on his education.

Sorted.

Should have come to us sooner easybullet.

Although I'd recommend the volunteering option if you're not working or studying.

[DumFarang]

If you son is Thai you can apply as a dependent of him if you have custody and lives with you, if he is not Thai you can apply as a dependent of him based on his education.

Could you give more details about that, maybe a website? If that's better than what I'm doing now it could be very good for my peace of mind.

Thanks.

[Mario2008]

If you have a child that is a Thai national you can apply for a non-O visa with the brirth certificate. You can get yearly extension of stay from immigration if you have an income of 40,000 baht a month (can be from abroad) OR 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand in your name for at least 2 months. For the extension of stay the child must live with you and must be a legal child (in essence you must be married to the mother or if not have legitimised the child as yours at the court. (If the child is 7 years or older tis can also be doen at the amphur.

If you have a child that goes to school in Thailand tyou can apply for a visa and extensions of stay from immirgation based on your childs education. You arethan a dependent of your child. For the yearly extensions oyu must show 500,000 baht in a bank account in Thailand.

For more information you can have a look at the immigration rules: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/redirect.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.immigration.go.th%2Fnov2004%2Fdoc%2Ftemporarystay%2Fpolicy777-2551_en.pdf

If you have more questions I suggest you start a new topic on this.

[DumFarang]

If you have a child that is a Thai national you can apply for a non-O visa with the brirth certificate. You can get yearly extension of stay from immigration if you have an income of 40,000 baht a month (can be from abroad) OR 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand in your name for at least 2 months. For the extension of stay the child must live with you and must be a legal child (in essence you must be married to the mother or if not have legitimised the child as yours at the court. (If the child is 7 years or older tis can also be doen at the amphur.

If you have a child that goes to school in Thailand tyou can apply for a visa and extensions of stay from immirgation based on your childs education. You arethan a dependent of your child. For the yearly extensions oyu must show 500,000 baht in a bank account in Thailand.

For more information you can have a look at the immigration rules: http://www.thaivisa....777-2551_en.pdf

If you have more questions I suggest you start a new topic on this.

Thanks Mario, that's similar to the marriage setup which I've been through, but they need too much money. This is a little better though. I can show a 40,000 baht salary, but not the 400,000 in the bank, big difference. Who knows, maybe I'll be able to do this.

Thanks again.

[Mario2008]

Correct it is the same provision. It is Income or money in the bank.

2.18 In the case of a family member of a Thai(applicable only to parents, spouse, child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse):

Permission will be granted for a period of not more than 1 year at a time.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM)

(2) Proof of family relationship

(3) In the case of a spouse, the marital relationship shall be de jure (legitimate) and de facto;

(4) In the case of a child, adopted child or child of his/her spouse, the said person must not be married, must be living with the family, and must be less than 20 years of age; or

(5) In the case of a parent, one of parents must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit of not less than 400,000 baht for expenses within a year.

In other necessary circumstances, The Immigration Commissioner or Deputy of Immigration Commissioner may approve on case to case basis.

(6) In case of marriage with a Thai lady, the husband who is an alien must have an average annual income of not less than 40,000 baht per month or a money deposit in a local Thai bank of not less than 400,000 baht for the past 2 months for expenses within a year.

[tropo]

Many who are forced to do Tourist visa runs to Laos to live here probably can't afford to fly to England for a few days though.

Many couldn't get a visa to go to England to get a visa for Thailand. For those who can get a visa to visit England it's more a matter of whether it's worth the cost rather than "can't afford". I certainly wouldn't be flying to England to get visas whether I can afford it or not.

Edited February 10, 2011 by tropo

[Lite Beer]

If you son is Thai you can apply as a dependent of him if you have custody and lives with you, if he is not Thai you can apply as a dependent of him based on his education.

Could you give more details about that, maybe a website? If that's better than what I'm doing now it could be very good for my peace of mind.

Thanks.

Police Order 2008.pdf

2.18 and 2.11

[DumFarang]

If you son is Thai you can apply as a dependent of him if you have custody and lives with you, if he is not Thai you can apply as a dependent of him based on his education.

Could you give more details about that, maybe a website? If that's better than what I'm doing now it could be very good for my peace of mind.

Thanks.

Police Order 2008.pdf

2.18 and 2.11

Thanks to you also.

[Claedeus]

Wow lol, i didnt want to start a fight with my question about the "100% of chances to get a Double E. visa" but thx for all the answers !

Im going to Bkk on 15th to get my new passport and then heading directly to Vientiane, i'll let you know.

Peace ^^