Recent Clashes With Thailand Real War: Cambodia PM Hun Sen

[webfact]

Phnom Penh's headline: Cambodia, Thailand at ‘war’: PM http://yfrog.com/h2ixrtj #ThaiBorder RT @thaitvnews /via@RT @tulsathit: /RT @jin_nation

[webfact]

Thani: Thai-Cambodian border incidents are military clashes, not real war as Cambodian PM reportedly says; more channels for talks are available /MCOT

[Robby nz]

What a war mongering rant from the dictator.

I see plenty of evidence, photos and personal stories of civilian damage in Thailand but as yet none form Cambodia.

I would have thought that if it had existed Hun Sen would have been very keen to get it out into the world media.

After all it would help show the agression he claimes.

Seems to me the Thai Govt, army is being reactive rather than proactive in this and only retaliating when fired upon and going for militery targets rather than civilian.

I may be wrong but untill I see hard evidence otherwise..........................

He also seem to be denying his son was hurt.

[pattayabuggy]

Hun Sen should know what he's talking about: wasn't he a member of the Khymer Rouge? Anyway, it's about time we had another war again perhaps it'll bring down the value of the Thai Baht!!!!!

Please show some reprehensibility with the posts, war is something no one needs.If the situation does blow up don't you think foreign nationals will be advised to leave and as for going out and spending your new valued baht good luck!!

Tongue in cheek I think, I am sure it was meant as a joke. No one should want war. 

[Macmundi]

If you had an argument with your brother, would you prefer to be mature and settle your differences yourselves or would you run to mommy?

[notime]

Seems some people still have blinkers on here repeated news relases state Thailand doesnt want UN intervention, repeatedly Cambodians are open for intervention yet some posters here continue to leave the blinkers on that Thailand can do nothing wrong ?

Thailand want bilateral talks, which is what was suggested by the current head of ASEAN.

I can only assume the reason why Cambodia doesn't want bilateral talks any more is that Thais are saying to them one thing and doing another.

It was reported earlier that after 2 generals form both sides met a sensible plan was devised to minimize the chance of further conflict. The next day I heard that the situation escalated. Obviously somebody is playing game and doing this on purpose. And somehow I don't think it's Cambodians.

[OzMick]

Hun Sen should know what he's talking about: wasn't he a member of the Khymer Rouge? Anyway, it's about time we had another war again perhaps it'll bring down the value of the Thai Baht!!!!!

Please show some reprehensibility with the posts, war is something no one needs.If the situation does blow up don't you think foreign nationals will be advised to leave and as for going out and spending your new valued baht good luck!!

reprehensibility - it doesn't mean what you think it does!

[animatic]

The ICJ ignored what the 1904-7 treaty actually contains. The IJC ignored what the leader of the French delegation in that time said clearly many times - that he wanted a topographical feature, not an artificial line as a frontier. (This means the cliff face, not a line behind the temple.) When the fact that Siam was giving away so much land with the drawing of that new frontier is ignored. What the ICJ said was that weak slight Siam (without the skills to do so) should have questioned the might of France in the accuracy of the maps France issued. Even though it has been shown that the maps contain several errors. Even though Siam, Thailand, France and Cambodia have accepted a correction from an error in the map in other part of the border.

Considering all that; we should not be surprised that Thailand, in the person of the PM does not want more international 'mediation'.

Well it does appear that the treaty says one thing and the map another.

Seems the french cartographers made a mistake, or one on purpose, for some reason. So 100 years later still a post-colonial cock up.

Edited February 10, 2011 by animatic

[hardy1943]

B)Hun Sen dosent know real war even if it hit him in the head.

I do not think either countries does. I any case all of this is plain madness.

[animatic]

Hun Sen should know what he's talking about: wasn't he a member of the Khymer Rouge? Anyway, it's about time we had another war again perhaps it'll bring down the value of the Thai Baht!!!!!

Please show some reprehensibility with the posts, war is something no one needs.If the situation does blow up don't you think foreign nationals will be advised to leave and as for going out and spending your new valued baht good luck!!

reprehensibility - it doesn't mean what you think it does!

Oh yeah, quite so.

rep·re·hen·si·ble –adjective

deserving of reproof, rebuke, or censure; blameworthy

Origin: Middle English < Late Latin reprehēnsibilis, equivalent to Latin reprehēns ( us )

—Related formsrep·re·hen·si·bil·i·ty, rep·re·hen·si·ble·ness, nounrep·re·hen·si·bly, adverbnon·rep·re·hen·si·bil·i·ty, nounnon·rep·re·hen·si·ble, adjectivenon·rep·re·hen·si·ble·ness, nounnon·rep·re·hen·si·b·ly, adverbun·rep·re·hen·si·ble, adjectiveun·rep·re·hen·si·ble·ness, nounun·rep·re·hen·si·b·ly, adverb

—Synonyms culpable. Antonyms praiseworthy.

--------------------------------------------------

re·spon·si·ble adjective

1.answerable or accountable, as for something within one'spower, control, or management (often followed by to or for): He is responsible to the president for his decisions.

2.involving accountability or responsibility: a responsibleposition.

3.chargeable with being the author, cause, or occasion ofsomething (usually followed by for ): Termites wereresponsible for the damage.

4.having a capacity for moral decisions and thereforeaccountable; capable of rational thought or action: Thedefendant is not responsible for his actions.

5.able to discharge obligations or pay debts.

6.reliable or dependable, as in meeting debts, conductingbusiness dealings, etc.

7.(of a government, member of a government, governmentagency, or the like) answerable to or serving at thediscretion of an elected legislature or the electorate.

Origin: 1590–1600; < Latin respōns ( us )

—Related forms

re·spon·si·ble·ness, noun

re·spon·si·bly, adverb

in·ter·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

non·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

non·re·spon·si·ble·ness, noun

non·re·spon·si·b·ly, adverb

pre·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

qua·si-re·spon·si·ble, adjective

qua·si-re·spon·si·b·ly, adverb

su·per·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

su·per·re·spon·si·ble·ness, noun

su·per·re·spon·si·b·ly, adverb

un·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

un·re·spon·si·ble·ness, noun

un·re·spon·si·b·ly, adverb

—Synonyms

1. liable. 4. competent. 5. solvent.

6. honest, capable, reliable, trustworthy

Edited February 10, 2011 by animatic

[animatic]

B)Hun Sen dosent know real war even if it hit him in the head.

I do not think either countries does. I any case all of this is plain madness.

Hun Sen would have much more idea than Thailand,

since his country has been at war for real more than once in his lifetime.

The last time Thailand was at war was WWII,

before the Japanese walked in all over them.

Edited February 10, 2011 by animatic

[Buchholz]

Abhisit argued that Cambodian troops used the Hindu temple as a shield. "Thailand is gravely concerned about the use of Phra Viharn (Thai accent for Preah Vihear) by Cambodia for military purpose, which is in violation of international law, in particular the article 4 (1) of the 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Arm Conflict," he said in the letter to UN yesterday.

Cambodian soldiers walk at the 11th-century Preah Vihear temple on the border between Thailand and Cambodia February 9, 2011.

Reuters

Cambodian soldier smokes a cigarette at his unit's position in the 11th-century Preah Vihear temple on the border between Thailand and Cambodia February 9, 2011.

Reuters

Cambodian army soldiers walk around Cambodia's 11th century Hindu Preah Vihear temple, which was enlisted as UNESCO's World Heritage in Preah Vihear province, about 245 kilometers (152 miles) north of Phnom Penh, Cambodia, Wednesday, Feb. 9, 2011. Hundreds of Cambodian soldiers were camped Wednesday at a cliff-top Khmer temple and World Heritage site.

AP

http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//110209/481/urn_publicid_ap_org9c9a257faa2f458abad2512214704af6/

[Buchholz]

Well it does appear that the treaty says one thing and the map another.

Seems the french cartographers made a mistake, or one on purpose, for some reason. So 100 years later still a post-colonial cock up.

It's ok.... 100 years later, the French are now going to fix everything..... again.

France offers maps to resolve Thai-Cambodia spat

The Preah Vhear temple in Preah Vihear province. France has offered to help resolve a festering border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia by providing maps it made at the start of the last century when it ruled Indo-China.

AFP - Feb. 9, 2011

Edited February 10, 2011 by webfact
Link to AFP changed //Admin

[creck]

What a war mongering rant from the dictator.

I see plenty of evidence, photos and personal stories of civilian damage in Thailand but as yet none form Cambodia.

I would have thought that if it had existed Hun Sen would have been very keen to get it out into the world media.

After all it would help show the agression he claimes.

Seems to me the Thai Govt, army is being reactive rather than proactive in this and only retaliating when fired upon and going for militery targets rather than civilian.

I may be wrong but untill I see hard evidence otherwise..........................

He also seem to be denying his son was hurt.

We can be surprised - but this does seem to be true. The words of the Army are strange but thier actions seem reasonable. If you don't want the Temple hit - don't station soldiers there, is the best thiung they have said.

[creck]

Well it does appear that the treaty says one thing and the map another.

Seems the french cartographers made a mistake, or one on purpose, for some reason. So 100 years later still a post-colonial cock up.

It's ok.... 100 years later, the French are now going to fix everything..... again.

France offers maps to resolve Thai-Cambodia spat

The Preah Vhear temple in Preah Vihear province. France has offered to help resolve a festering border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia by providing maps it made at the start of the last century when it ruled Indo-China.

AFP - Feb. 9, 2011

http://news.yahoo.co...1b2a59715e4aef/

Although the ICJ agreed that the maps were very wrong in this area they followed them!!!

getting tham out again will only help, if the French say they should not be followed.

[OzMick]

Well it does appear that the treaty says one thing and the map another.

Seems the french cartographers made a mistake, or one on purpose, for some reason. So 100 years later still a post-colonial cock up.

It's ok.... 100 years later, the French are now going to fix everything..... again.

France offers maps to resolve Thai-Cambodia spat

The Preah Vhear temple in Preah Vihear province. France has offered to help resolve a festering border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia by providing maps it made at the start of the last century when it ruled Indo-China.

AFP - Feb. 9, 2011

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__4208375

What's the odds that they insist all negotiations are in the French language?

[spidermike007]

Hun Sen has betrayed his real intent with this ridiculous statement. First of all, Cambodia would never be able to stand up to Thailand in what he foolishly refers to as a "real war". The Cambodian army would last 48 hours. Hun Sen has been spending all of the funds on mansions, cars, a personal security detail of 5,500 men, and stashing billions in overseas accounts, along with his top generals. He is one of the great buffoons of our generation. Nothing he says or does should be taken seriously. He is a dictator, disguising himself as a democratic ruler. The great fool is simply trying to buy concessions from Thailand, along with support and sympathy from the outside world. I am not saying whatever aggression on the part of Thailand is justified. First of all, the temple is not on their land. They themselves admitted this, and this has been acknowledged and accepted since 1962. The treasonous yellow (hearted) shirt leaders should be tried, convicted, and sentenced to life imprisonment, for this act of thuggery. Shooting at the Cambobians is a bit like putting a 4 year old in the ring with Vladimir Klistchko. Why even bother? Please do not do Hun Sen the favor of taking him seriously. His level of credibility is comparable to Kim Jung Il, Raul Castro, Hugo Chavez, Than Shwe, Robert Mugabe, and Laurent Gbagbo.

[OzMick]

Hun Sen should know what he's talking about: wasn't he a member of the Khymer Rouge? Anyway, it's about time we had another war again perhaps it'll bring down the value of the Thai Baht!!!!!

Please show some reprehensibility with the posts, war is something no one needs.If the situation does blow up don't you think foreign nationals will be advised to leave and as for going out and spending your new valued baht good luck!!

reprehensibility - it doesn't mean what you think it does!

Oh yeah, quite so.

rep·re·hen·si·ble –adjective

deserving of reproof, rebuke, or censure; blameworthy

Origin: Middle English < Late Latin reprehēnsibilis, equivalent to Latin reprehēns ( us )

—Related formsrep·re·hen·si·bil·i·ty, rep·re·hen·si·ble·ness, nounrep·re·hen·si·bly, adverbnon·rep·re·hen·si·bil·i·ty, nounnon·rep·re·hen·si·ble, adjectivenon·rep·re·hen·si·ble·ness, nounnon·rep·re·hen·si·b·ly, adverbun·rep·re·hen·si·ble, adjectiveun·rep·re·hen·si·ble·ness, nounun·rep·re·hen·si·b·ly, adverb

—Synonyms culpable. Antonyms praiseworthy.

--------------------------------------------------

re·spon·si·ble adjective

1.answerable or accountable, as for something within one'spower, control, or management (often followed by to or for): He is responsible to the president for his decisions.

2.involving accountability or responsibility: a responsibleposition.

3.chargeable with being the author, cause, or occasion ofsomething (usually followed by for ): Termites wereresponsible for the damage.

4.having a capacity for moral decisions and thereforeaccountable; capable of rational thought or action: Thedefendant is not responsible for his actions.

5.able to discharge obligations or pay debts.

6.reliable or dependable, as in meeting debts, conductingbusiness dealings, etc.

7.(of a government, member of a government, governmentagency, or the like) answerable to or serving at thediscretion of an elected legislature or the electorate.

Origin: 1590–1600; < Latin respōns ( us )

—Related forms

re·spon·si·ble·ness, noun

re·spon·si·bly, adverb

in·ter·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

non·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

non·re·spon·si·ble·ness, noun

non·re·spon·si·b·ly, adverb

pre·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

qua·si-re·spon·si·ble, adjective

qua·si-re·spon·si·b·ly, adverb

su·per·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

su·per·re·spon·si·ble·ness, noun

su·per·re·spon·si·b·ly, adverb

un·re·spon·si·ble, adjective

un·re·spon·si·ble·ness, noun

un·re·spon·si·b·ly, adverb

—Synonyms

1. liable. 4. competent. 5. solvent.

6. honest, capable, reliable, trustworthy

geez ani, good tutoring encourages the student to do his own research

[Buchholz]

Well it does appear that the treaty says one thing and the map another.

Seems the french cartographers made a mistake, or one on purpose, for some reason. So 100 years later still a post-colonial cock up.

It's ok.... 100 years later, the French are now going to fix everything..... again.

France offers maps to resolve Thai-Cambodia spat

The Preah Vhear temple in Preah Vihear province. France has offered to help resolve a festering border dispute between Thailand and Cambodia by providing maps it made at the start of the last century when it ruled Indo-China.

AFP - Feb. 9, 2011

http://news.yahoo.co...1b2a59715e4aef/

Although the ICJ agreed that the maps were very wrong in this area they followed them!!!

getting tham out again will only help, if the French say they should not be followed.

thanks, but no thanks, you've "helped" quite enough already...

DPM Suthep Rejects Help From France

After the French government offered to help settle the issue of disputed territory between Thailand and Cambodia, Deputy Prime Minister in charge of national security Suthep Thaugsuban strongly rejected the help, reiterating once again that the two neighbors would settle the issue bilaterally.

France had offered to make available maps and documentation from when it had occupied Cambodia.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-10

[humqdpf]

B)Hun Sen dosent know real war even if it hit him in the head.

Actually he was almost fatally wounded and lost an eye in war. This does not mean that I have much time for his policies but lets get the facts straight. Lets get the facts straight - All Cambodians of his age group living in Cambodia were involved in war.

[sam666]

I see the French are offering their support, is there a white flag being waved at the temple already?

[kukui]

America not stupid-- to intervene this issue on Thai side. This is smoke screen war to take Thai mind off civil rights and social problems and democracy issues. That is plain and simple, I think.

Lek

Bkk

[Thai at Heart]

I see the French are offering their support, is there a white flag being waved at the temple already?

:lol:

[ballpoint]

If both sides are so concerned with peace then why not agree to have the entire border legally demarcated by an independant authority, forgetting about previous artificial colonial lines drawn on a map with no respect for topography? Somehow I can't see the Cambodians agreeing to this, as they would lose the lot, and som nam na to them if they did. Like the greedy fox of the fable, having the temple but wanting more, they could end up with nothing. Let's not forget that the land was effectively in joint control up till a few years back, when Cambodia decided it wanted it to itself. Let's also not forget the belligerant rhetoric coming from Hun Sen over the past few years, including the threats to shoot any Thai coming near the border, and the more recent threat to mobilise artilliary and tanks and open fire at Thailand, which appears to be one of the few truths this power mad megalomaniac has ever uttered. Certainly, the situation hasn't been helped by the nationalist loonies in Thailand, and the crazed border crossing by a very few, but to start a "real war" with another country over the ravings of a few thousand protestors sitting 600km away from the temple is as stupid as an African country declaring war on the US because of a KKK meeting.

[creck]

Hun Sen has betrayed his real intent with this ridiculous statement. First of all, Cambodia would never be able to stand up to Thailand in what he foolishly refers to as a "real war". The Cambodian army would last 48 hours. Hun Sen has been spending all of the funds on mansions, cars, a personal security detail of 5,500 men, and stashing billions in overseas accounts, along with his top generals. He is one of the great buffoons of our generation. Nothing he says or does should be taken seriously. He is a dictator, disguising himself as a democratic ruler. The great fool is simply trying to buy concessions from Thailand, along with support and sympathy from the outside world. I am not saying whatever aggression on the part of Thailand is justified. First of all, the temple is not on their land. They themselves admitted this, and this has been acknowledged and accepted since 1962. The treasonous yellow (hearted) shirt leaders should be tried, convicted, and sentenced to life imprisonment, for this act of thuggery. Shooting at the Cambobians is a bit like putting a 4 year old in the ring with Vladimir Klistchko. Why even bother? Please do not do Hun Sen the favor of taking him seriously. His level of credibility is comparable to Kim Jung Il, Raul Castro, Hugo Chavez, Than Shwe, Robert Mugabe, and Laurent Gbagbo.

Why Bother? -

Because Thais were killed. Because a school was almost totaly destroyed.

Reason enough.

Thousands of Thais want to go back home and resume normal life.

[animatic]

If both sides are so concerned with peace then why not agree to have the entire border legally demarcated by an independant authority, forgetting about previous artificial colonial lines drawn on a map with no respect for topography? Somehow I can't see the Cambodians agreeing to this, as they would lose the lot, and som nam na to them if they did. Like the greedy fox of the fable, having the temple but wanting more, they could end up with nothing. Let's not forget that the land was effectively in joint control up till a few years back, when Cambodia decided it wanted it to itself. Let's also not forget the belligerant rhetoric coming from Hun Sen over the past few years, including the threats to shoot any Thai coming near the border, and the more recent threat to mobilise artilliary and tanks and open fire at Thailand, which appears to be one of the few truths this power mad megalomaniac has ever uttered. Certainly, the situation hasn't been helped by the nationalist loonies in Thailand, and the crazed border crossing by a very few, but to start a "real war" with another country over the ravings of a few thousand protestors sitting 600km away from the temple is as stupid as an African country declaring war on the US because of a KKK meeting.

That's a loss of face like allowing

independent, international, election monitors

Edited February 10, 2011 by animatic

[samjaidee]

Hun Sen accused Thai troops of firing cluster bomb at Cambodian troops.

1) Does any one know if Thailand has cluster bombs?

2) Aren't cluster bombs dropped from planes?

Cluster munitions come in many shapes and forms. Bombs, rockets, artillery shells and grenades to name a few.

I think this was probably a translation error.

[webfact]

Singaporean Website: Hun Sen Accuses Thailand of War Crimes

A Singaporean website has quoted the Cambodian prime minister as saying that Thailand has committed war crimes, as it attacked the Phreah Vihear temple, adding that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva should be held accountable.

According to Singaporean news website 'Todayonline', Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen has stated that Cambodia’s border dispute with Thailand has escalated into a war, and Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva should be brought before international courts for war crimes.

Hun Sen went on to say that Thailand started the so-called war, and that Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva must be held accountable for a war crimes.

The Cambodian prime minister said the shooting and destruction of Preah Vihear Temple and a Buddhist pagoda are considered war crimes, as Thai troops used cluster bombs to carry out assaults for hours.

Sources in the Royal Thai Army denied the claims, saying only conventional weapons were used during the clashes.

News reports indicate the armed confrontation has claimed eight lives so far, injuring many soldiers and civilians.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-10

[h90]

If both sides are so concerned with peace then why not agree to have the entire border legally demarcated by an independant authority, forgetting about previous artificial colonial lines drawn on a map with no respect for topography? Somehow I can't see the Cambodians agreeing to this, as they would lose the lot, and som nam na to them if they did. Like the greedy fox of the fable, having the temple but wanting more, they could end up with nothing. Let's not forget that the land was effectively in joint control up till a few years back, when Cambodia decided it wanted it to itself. Let's also not forget the belligerant rhetoric coming from Hun Sen over the past few years, including the threats to shoot any Thai coming near the border, and the more recent threat to mobilise artilliary and tanks and open fire at Thailand, which appears to be one of the few truths this power mad megalomaniac has ever uttered. Certainly, the situation hasn't been helped by the nationalist loonies in Thailand, and the crazed border crossing by a very few, but to start a "real war" with another country over the ravings of a few thousand protestors sitting 600km away from the temple is as stupid as an African country declaring war on the US because of a KKK meeting.

But based on what? You could find arguments that half Thailand is Cambodia and you can find arguments that half Cambodia would be Thailand. The only reasonable way is to have it overlapping like it was before Cambodia went crazy.

[IvanDobsky]

From the International Court of Justice website http://www.icj-cij.org/docket/index.php?sum=284&code=ct&p1=3&p2=3&case=45&k=46&p3=5

"...the maps were communicated to the Siamese Government as purporting to represent the outcome of the work of delimitation; since there was no reaction on the part of the Siamese authorities, either then or for many years, they must be held to have acquiesced. The maps were moreover communicated to the Siamese members of the Mixed Commission, who said nothing. to the Siamese Minister of the Interior, Prince Damrong, who thanked the French Minister in Bangkok for them, and to the Siamese provincial governors, some of whom knew of Preah Vihear. If the Siamese authorities accepted the Annex I map without investigation, they could not now plead any error vitiating the reality of their consent.

...in 1934-1935 a survey had established a divergence between the map line and the true line of the watershed, and other maps had been produced showing the Temple as being in Thailand: Thailand had nevertheless continued also to use and indeed to publish maps showing Preah Vihear as lying in Cambodia. Moreover, in the course of the negotiations for the 1925 and 1937 Franco-Siamese Treaties, which confirmed the existing frontiers, and in 1947 in Washington before the Franco-Siamese Conciliation Commission, it would have been natural for Thailand to raise the matter: she did not do so.

The natural inference was that she had accepted the frontier at Preah Vihear as it was drawn on the map, irrespective of its correspondence with the watershed line.

Moreover, when in 1930 Prince Damrong, on a visit to the Temple, was officially received there by the French Resident for the adjoining Cambodian province, Siam failed to react."

Decision made. Time to move on and end the senseless sabre-rattling.