Formula 1 In 2011

[Mosha]

Bahrain - Mark Webber doesn't want to race.

http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=158071448

[wackysleet]

Bahrain - Mark Webber doesn't want to race.

http://sport.uk.msn....entid=158071448

I admire him on the statement he made, seems he is the only one who has openly voiced an opinion on Bahrain but at the end of the day I don't think he will not race if RBR are there and they will be for sure unless the respective teams government advise against it.

Reminds one of the USA race where lot's of teams said they would not participate but then if memory serves me right, I think it was possibly amongst others that Stobarts Minardi took part because they were assured of points which equals money for the constructor and that could be the outcome here if there is no government intervention.

[Mosha]

I'm still backing that certain governments will save the day and cover Bernies arse Dave.

[wackysleet]

I'm still backing that certain governments will save the day and cover Bernies arse Dave.

Well Steve, some governments will stoop that low .

[F1fanatic]

Bahrain - Mark Webber doesn't want to race.

http://sport.uk.msn....entid=158071448

I admire him on the statement he made, seems he is the only one who has openly voiced an opinion on Bahrain but at the end of the day I don't think he will not race if RBR are there and they will be for sure unless the respective teams government advise against it.

Reminds one of the USA race where lot's of teams said they would not participate but then if memory serves me right, I think it was possibly amongst others that Stobarts Minardi took part because they were assured of points which equals money for the constructor and that could be the outcome here if there is no government intervention.

The 2005 USA race was entirely different. The Michelin tyres provided were dangerous and unable to race unless the circuit was changed (or other alternatives that would have meant they had no chance of winning).

The Bridgestone runners were determined that as they had an advantage - the Michelin runners needed to accept one of the changes that would be detrimental to their race, but at least they could run.

The Michelin runners IIRC, did a warm up lap and then left the track - leaving only the Bridgestone runners.

Somehow I doubt that Bahrain will happen as public opinion is too strong.

[wackysleet]

Reminds one of the USA race where lot's of teams said they would not participate but then if memory serves me right, I think it was possibly amongst others that Stobarts Minardi took part because they were assured of points which equals money for the constructor and that could be the outcome here if there is no government intervention.

F1fanatic

The 2005 USA race was entirely different. The Michelin tyres provided were dangerous and unable to race unless the circuit was changed (or other alternatives that would have meant they had no chance of winning).

The Bridgestone runners were determined that as they had an advantage - the Michelin runners needed to accept one of the changes that would be detrimental to their race, but at least they could run.

The Michelin runners IIRC, did a warm up lap and then left the track - leaving only the Bridgestone runners.

Somehow I doubt that Bahrain will happen as public opinion is too strong.

I am aware of the circumstances concerning the tyres, the point I unsuccessfully failed to get across would appear to be the correlation between those that will compete and those that will not compete due to dangers real or imagined or on a moral ground this will likely be the same in as much that any team believing that they can get an advantage by racing in Bahrain will do so and I am not sure that the teams will be united in refusing to race, especially if the championship is still in question.

I hope that government pressure is put on the teams not to go but a more likely scenario is that their insurance will not be forthcoming but the latest reports appear to have Bernie having second thoughts and stating that he does not believe that the situation is in fact normal in Bahrain and is calling for a possible new vote.

Public opinion counts for very little, if it is on and televised then I strongly suspect the advocates for calling off the race will still be glued to their tv sets, which is really adding tacit acceptance of the race taking place.

[Mosha]

All it needs is governments to declare travel advisories. The insurance companies will declare insurance invalid, that will stop the race.

Edit :- Looks like it's off.

http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=158133263

[Mosha]

2012 21 dates but 20 races Jean Todt.

http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=158130595

[F1fanatic]

I got your point Wackysleet, but Bahrain is v different. The Michelin runners in the 2005 USA GP chose not to race as they had no chance of winning - their tyres were dangerous unless they adopted a safety strategy that would leave them with no chance in the race.

Bahrain .... is down to conscience and genuine safety for the teams, who have absolutely no control over external events.

As I said before though, I'd be v suprised if Bahrain happens this year. I disagree that public opinion counts for v little in this instance. The drivers probably agree with public opinion and will be pushing v hard for the race not to take place, using the safety issue as the dominant factor.

[Mosha]

From what I can gather from the BBC news site. The teams sponsors are getting negative feedback from the fans. All the teams have to agree to a date change. Those who have accomodation boked in India won't be pleased either.

Edit:- Bernie says .......

http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=158157912

[ignis]

Bahrain 2011 return ‘not on’ – Ecclestone (Article)

As teams revolt against calendar change, Bernie Ecclestone says the Bahrain Grand Prix cannot go ahead this year without their unanimous agreement

Formula 1 news

Bernie Ecclestone has conceded that the Bahrain Grand Prix will not go ahead this year – less than a week after the FIA reinstated it following what it claimed was a unanimous vote of its World Motor Sport Council, of which Ecclestone is a member.

That decision drew strong criticism from politicians and high-profile figures connected to the sport, as well as a joint letter from the F1 teams objecting to the FIA’s decision to move the inaugural Indian GP to December to accommodate a rescheduled Bahrain event on October 30.

In explaining his volte face, Ecclestone – who claimed he had heard conflicting views about the security situation in Bahrain since Friday’s WMSC meeting – alighted on a point raised by former FIA president Max Mosley earlier this week: namely that the calendar cannot be changed once the championship is underway without the unanimous agreement of the teams.

With the Formula One Teams’ Association having stated its opposition to the calendar changes passed by the FIA last Friday, the necessary agreement will clearly not be forthcoming and the cancellation of the 2011 race at Sakhir now looks like a formality.

“Hopefully we can return in the future, but of course it's not on,” Ecclestone told BBC Sport.

“The schedule cannot be rescheduled without the agreement of the participants – they're the facts.”

As Mosley pointed out while touring the broadcast studios to warn against the reinstatement of Bahrain, the FIA appears to have overlooked one of its own statutes in deciding unilaterally that it would rearrange the calendar.

Article 66 of the International Sporting Code states: “No amendments shall be made to the Supplementary Regulations after the beginning of the period for receiving entries, unless unanimous agreement is given by all competitors already entered, or by decision of the stewards of the meeting for reasons of force majeure or safety.”

Mosley argued that while the original cancellation of Bahrain was acceptable owing to force majeure, the decision to reinstate it by moving the Delhi race could not be justified on those grounds.

That intervention – from the man who was a persistent foe of the teams in his latter years as FIA president, but is a long-time ally of Ecclestone – appears to have isolated current FIA president Jean Todt and strengthened the hand of the teams, who have been uneasy about a premature return to Bahrain but have been reluctant to voice their opposition in public.

Instead it has fallen to Mosley, Red Bull driver Mark Webber, and 1996 world champion and BRDC president Damon Hill to take a stand on the issue, while outside F1 the FIA’s position has been condemned by leading MPs including Foreign Secretary William Hague, former Liberal Democrat leader Sir Menzies Campbell, Sports Minister Hugh Robertson and various human rights groups.

[Mosha]

Bahrain accepts the race is off. 30th is back to being the Indian GP

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/formula_one/13718417.stm

[Mosha]

Not sure where this post belongs, but I can't think of a better home.

Sir Stirling Moss retires from motor racing.

http://sport.uk.msn.com/f1/news/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=158195632

[wackysleet]

Very well done Jenson, excellent racing and a just result showing that patience can be rewarded, congrats to the evergreen German {not my favourite driver} with a well deserved finish.

[PattayaParent]

Anyone have the results of all the stewards inquiries yesterday, the official F1 website doesn't mention them at all.

[Mosha]

When in doubt ask the beeb Result stands

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/default.stm

[F1fanatic]

Have to admit that I didn't stay up to watch the race but, having just watched the replay - WOW, what a race!

Jenson obviously takes the honours, but on a personal level it was wonderful to see Schui almost end up on the podium!

[Mosha]

Same here, great race. Slater's fixation with that freight train, reminded me of a Headingley test match. Johnners asked Trueman about the number on the bus passing the ground. Trueman said "I'm here to watch the bloody cricket, not study the Leeds bus timetable." Or something like that. I was thinking of a similar reply for Slater. I did think about the Headmaster's office before he said that though, and that must have been something to see "What have they got you for JB?"

[F1fanatic]

Same here, great race. Slater's fixation with that freight train, reminded me of a Headingley test match. Johnners asked Trueman about the number on the bus passing the ground. Trueman said "I'm here to watch the bloody cricket, not study the Leeds bus timetable." Or something like that. I was thinking of a similar reply for Slater. I did think about the Headmaster's office before he said that though, and that must have been something to see "What have they got you for JB?"

I'm still hyped after seeing that great race!

As far as I can see (although I could have missed something), no other penalties were required as the guilty did themselves more harm that those they hit - apart from (possibly) Jenson and Alonso. Will need to see it again though before making my own decision.

Regardless, the McLaren was obviously (IMO) the far quicker car, but Jenson drove a great race to end up winning after his disastrous earlier laps.

I found it v funny that the ESPN team could only bring themselves to give 'back-handed' compliments to Schumi on his great overtakes etc. "he is showing his experience", "he had DRS earlier than everyone else", or words to that effect

BUT, admittedly I'm biased!

[PattayaParent]

Same here, great race. Slater's fixation with that freight train, reminded me of a Headingley test match. Johnners asked Trueman about the number on the bus passing the ground. Trueman said "I'm here to watch the bloody cricket, not study the Leeds bus timetable." Or something like that. I was thinking of a similar reply for Slater. I did think about the Headmaster's office before he said that though, and that must have been something to see "What have they got you for JB?"

I'm still hyped after seeing that great race!

As far as I can see (although I could have missed something), no other penalties were required as the guilty did themselves more harm that those they hit - apart from (possibly) Jenson and Alonso. Will need to see it again though before making my own decision.

Regardless, the McLaren was obviously (IMO) the far quicker car, but Jenson drove a great race to end up winning after his disastrous earlier laps.

I found it v funny that the ESPN team could only bring themselves to give 'back-handed' compliments to Schumi on his great overtakes etc. "he is showing his experience", "he had DRS earlier than everyone else", or words to that effect

BUT, admittedly I'm biased!

but they still need a wrist slapping to remind them not to do it again and set a precedent for others that think they might be able to get away with it.

There was also a fixation on the ships along the St. Lawrence which reminded me of a scene from Lawrence of Arabia when they find the Suez.

[F1fanatic]

Same here, great race. Slater's fixation with that freight train, reminded me of a Headingley test match. Johnners asked Trueman about the number on the bus passing the ground. Trueman said "I'm here to watch the bloody cricket, not study the Leeds bus timetable." Or something like that. I was thinking of a similar reply for Slater. I did think about the Headmaster's office before he said that though, and that must have been something to see "What have they got you for JB?"

I'm still hyped after seeing that great race!

As far as I can see (although I could have missed something), no other penalties were required as the guilty did themselves more harm that those they hit - apart from (possibly) Jenson and Alonso. Will need to see it again though before making my own decision.

Regardless, the McLaren was obviously (IMO) the far quicker car, but Jenson drove a great race to end up winning after his disastrous earlier laps.

I found it v funny that the ESPN team could only bring themselves to give 'back-handed' compliments to Schumi on his great overtakes etc. "he is showing his experience", "he had DRS earlier than everyone else", or words to that effect

BUT, admittedly I'm biased!

but they still need a wrist slapping to remind them not to do it again and set a precedent for others that think they might be able to get away with it.

There was also a fixation on the ships along the St. Lawrence which reminded me of a scene from Lawrence of Arabia when they find the Suez.

Yes, LH needs a good 'wrist slapping'. He's attempted moves that would never work unless the other driver gave way (or crashed), WAY too often.

Tin foil helmet on

[PattayaParent]

Yes, LH needs a good 'wrist slapping'. He's attempted moves that would never work unless the other driver gave way (or crashed), WAY too often.

Tin foil helmet on

I thought it odd that one of the studio presenters (can't remember his name but he was the deigner for Jordan) commented that the experienced drivers, the example he gave was Schumacher, know to get out of the way and give a driver room in tight situations, sort of implying that it's the fault of the inexperienced other driver rather than all LH. Although he ws also calling LH for acting like a spoilt kid at the same time.

It also seems odd that the commentators at Monaco were of the opinion that the penalty against Di Resta was harsh and unfair, and that the same maneouvre by LH had to be penalised because a precedent had been set, but now he's getting stick for complaining about it.

There was also a comment at Montreal about 'encouraging' overtaking but giving drivers penalties when they attempt to overtake.

[F1fanatic]

Yes, LH needs a good 'wrist slapping'. He's attempted moves that would never work unless the other driver gave way (or crashed), WAY too often.

Tin foil helmet on

I thought it odd that one of the studio presenters (can't remember his name but he was the deigner for Jordan) commented that the experienced drivers, the example he gave was Schumacher, know to get out of the way and give a driver room in tight situations, sort of implying that it's the fault of the inexperienced other driver rather than all LH. Although he ws also calling LH for acting like a spoilt kid at the same time.

It also seems odd that the commentators at Monaco were of the opinion that the penalty against Di Resta was harsh and unfair, and that the same maneouvre by LH had to be penalised because a precedent had been set, but now he's getting stick for complaining about it.

There was also a comment at Montreal about 'encouraging' overtaking but giving drivers penalties when they attempt to overtake.

Quite. The commentators always blame everyone else when LH has a shunt - unless its immediately entirely clear that he was to blame... Any doubt and the commentators are rarely prepared to blame LH entirely. Its happening a bit too often nowadays that other drivers are not prepared to just get out of his way. and LH is suffering the consequencies....

Schumi rarely "gets out of the way" unless he knows that there is no way he can prevent the manoeuvre - only then will he realise the situation and realise he's better off 'in' the race.

[PattayaParent]

Yes, LH needs a good 'wrist slapping'. He's attempted moves that would never work unless the other driver gave way (or crashed), WAY too often.

Tin foil helmet on

I thought it odd that one of the studio presenters (can't remember his name but he was the deigner for Jordan) commented that the experienced drivers, the example he gave was Schumacher, know to get out of the way and give a driver room in tight situations, sort of implying that it's the fault of the inexperienced other driver rather than all LH. Although he ws also calling LH for acting like a spoilt kid at the same time.

It also seems odd that the commentators at Monaco were of the opinion that the penalty against Di Resta was harsh and unfair, and that the same maneouvre by LH had to be penalised because a precedent had been set, but now he's getting stick for complaining about it.

There was also a comment at Montreal about 'encouraging' overtaking but giving drivers penalties when they attempt to overtake.

Quite. The commentators always blame everyone else when LH has a shunt - unless its immediately entirely clear that he was to blame... Any doubt and the commentators are rarely prepared to blame LH entirely. Its happening a bit too often nowadays that other drivers are not prepared to just get out of his way. and LH is suffering the consequencies....

Schumi rarely "gets out of the way" unless he knows that there is no way he can prevent the manoeuvre - only then will he realise the situation and realise he's better off 'in' the race.

I actually remember he's more likely to be the one doing the maneouvre like putting teammate Barichello into a wall one time.

The point I was making though that the commentators thought Di Resta should not have been penalised for the maneouvre at the hairpin in Monaco, so why should they think that Hamilton should, for doing the same thing?

[F1fanatic]

Yes, LH needs a good 'wrist slapping'. He's attempted moves that would never work unless the other driver gave way (or crashed), WAY too often.

Tin foil helmet on

I thought it odd that one of the studio presenters (can't remember his name but he was the deigner for Jordan) commented that the experienced drivers, the example he gave was Schumacher, know to get out of the way and give a driver room in tight situations, sort of implying that it's the fault of the inexperienced other driver rather than all LH. Although he ws also calling LH for acting like a spoilt kid at the same time.

It also seems odd that the commentators at Monaco were of the opinion that the penalty against Di Resta was harsh and unfair, and that the same maneouvre by LH had to be penalised because a precedent had been set, but now he's getting stick for complaining about it.

There was also a comment at Montreal about 'encouraging' overtaking but giving drivers penalties when they attempt to overtake.

Quite. The commentators always blame everyone else when LH has a shunt - unless its immediately entirely clear that he was to blame... Any doubt and the commentators are rarely prepared to blame LH entirely. Its happening a bit too often nowadays that other drivers are not prepared to just get out of his way. and LH is suffering the consequencies....

Schumi rarely "gets out of the way" unless he knows that there is no way he can prevent the manoeuvre - only then will he realise the situation and realise he's better off 'in' the race.

I actually remember he's more likely to be the one doing the maneouvre like putting teammate Barichello into a wall one time.

The point I was making though that the commentators thought Di Resta should not have been penalised for the maneouvre at the hairpin in Monaco, so why should they think that Hamilton should, for doing the same thing?

Because Di Resta HAD been penalised for trying an impossible move, so anyone else making the same stupid move had to be penalised too.

[Mosha]

As for Lewis, and it was commented on. Ron's walk into the back of the McLaren Garage spoke volumes. I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when Lewis got back. I'm a Lewis fan, but I'm getting frustrated by his antics on the track.

[wackysleet]

As for Lewis, and it was commented on. Ron's walk into the back of the McLaren Garage spoke volumes. I'd have loved to be a fly on the wall when Lewis got back. I'm a Lewis fan, but I'm getting frustrated by his antics on the track.

I was watching Le Mans but also saw the F1 race on the tv and the look on Rons face just about said it all, and for all the fans out there that believe it was Jensons fault should look at Rons face again, any driver however good he thinks he is, is expendible and Mclaren with their reputation can always find a good driver.

You do not have to be the best to win the WDC as history has proved on a lot of occasions in recent years, having the best car by which I mean the fastest most reliable machine and the title is certainly on.

All the talk about being the only driver realistically being able to beat Sebastian for the title is just talk by lulu he has to be in it to win it.

[Mosha]

Was it Frank Williams who said "A monkey could drive and win in this car." I think it was in the Mansell years, the FW5 maybe.

[PattayaParent]

Because Di Resta HAD been penalised for trying an impossible move, so anyone else making the same stupid move had to be penalised too.

True, but I remember Schumacher got away with similar for years so it's not surprising that today's drivers feel aggrieved about not being allowed to overtake without being penalised.

[F1fanatic]

Because Di Resta HAD been penalised for trying an impossible move, so anyone else making the same stupid move had to be penalised too.

True, but I remember Schumacher got away with similar for years so it's not surprising that today's drivers feel aggrieved about not being allowed to overtake without being penalised.

And then again Senna etc. in the era that Schumi joined, did the same thing without any come-back...

Schumi learned after the Villeneuve championship decider in 1997 (I think?) that the old behaviour was no longer acceptable.

I will be the first to admit that Schumi still behaved badly if he thought he could get away with it (back in the old days) - but times have changed and trying to 'force' someone else out of the way is no longer acceptable. Its only the ridiculous attempts at overtaking nowadays that are penalised.