13 Girls Rescued From Prostitution After Raid On Karaoke Bar In Chiang Mai's Muang District

[atyclb]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

Have to agree on many points here and having had this same discussion with The girls who are friends of family members , they often ask me why I think they are doing something bad . When I try to explain why , they ask me if I think it is better for them to work for very little money in the fields , factories or some other European funded sweat shop . To be beaten by Thai boyfriends and husbands who drink what little money the girls earn and these same men have no interest in working or supporting their children . They explain to me that doing the bar work gives them good pay , good food and they dont work to hard . Sure there are some who dont work in good bars or have been sold by someone else to pay debts or get money , but I am now beginning to see what they mean when they say they " No have Choice " . Which one of us would bust our ass in a rice field or a sweatshop for less than 1/10th of the pay , versus doing something we not only like but are getting paid well for as well as the food , the drinks , the nice hotels , the clothes and all the other gifts . I no longer judge or hold the high moral ground and would only seriously get angry if the girls are underage or are being forced into doing it against their will .

They will tell many people many stories and freely admit that it helps them to gain sympathy which in turn earns them more money . Few of them would do anything else as they like what they do far better than the alternatives in a poor country . Perhaps if the got the free handouts the same as in Australia ie the ( Dole , Pensions Etc ) they wouldnt need to charge money for sex , but they would still have many partners just the same as in all the European countries that have been mentioned in this forum . Whether you are paid or not it is still morally the same if your a whore doing it for free or making a living . Up to them , if they are old enough and aware of what they do .

Society(ies) must hold(try) moral ground as to afford some type of safeguard to children that can/do/would otherwise get involved with activities that do not in general aid persona/academic development in spite of whether or not it was a family member that did the recruiting, promotion or sale. Yes, I know laws may not be enforced, and there is corruption, but hopefully sometimes such laws may help a child.

There are thai people in issan that are not involved in vice, are successful, etc as well as thai-chinese. A friend has 6 brothers and sisters, come from a Issan rice farming family, all brothers and sisters are uni grads, engineers, nurses, etc etc. All the children do indeed help their parents however none of them have experience in the sex for money business.

An adult choosing that business of free will is ok. Seems there are generations of it already, even like mother, like daughter teams. Mothers are mamasans, and bring their daughters into the business. Really a lifestyle already, OK for some but not for others. kind of crappy for a mamasan mother to induct daughter(s) rather than encourage them to do something different eg;profession, trade.

Lifestyle CIRCLE perpetuates ignorance and non self realization.

Edited February 17, 2011 by atyclb

[Nisa]

Does working as a prostitute and having sex with smelly fat old farangs have an effect on young girl's mind and self-esteem ... certainly it does but you are sadly mistaken if you think that the girls or women get into prostitution do it because they think it is fun because this is simply not the case for the vast majority of them.

Why bring white men into this discussion?

The brothel raided was for Thais, not for foreigners (as are nearly all brothels in Thailand).

It's extremely unlikely that any of those girls had ever had sex with a white man.

Methinks

Spot the racist is the name of the game!

Sounds like you may be projecting some of your own thoughts & feelings here as I never said anything about "white people" and even somebody of little intelligence would know the above post (you snipped) was part of a response to somebody suggesting these girls enjoyed their work. As the thread is also about prostitution and girls being forced into it as well as prostitution occurring in Thailand as the bar was located in Thailand ... this appears to be on topic.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[Nisa]

Buddha taught that having a son was good because he could help with the farming, etc., but having a daughter was a "blessing" because she could bring income to the family. My feeling is that this was originally meant through "sin sod" and marriage endowments, but that it was later "distorted" to including prostitution, either willingly by the girl, or by the parents simply selling her.

Edit: clapping at your post and insight and not the situation

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[atyclb]

Four things.

First, Buddha taught that having a son was good because he could help with the farming, etc., but having a daughter was a "blessing" because she could bring income to the family. My feeling is that this was originally meant through "sin sod" and marriage endowments, but that it was later "distorted" to including prostitution, either willingly by the girl, or by the parents simply selling her.

2 Issan rice farmer parents I know are blessed with 4 daughters. 2 nurses, 2 engineers. Education requires focus and reliability. Focus to study, reliability to show up to classes. Organization and efficiency soon follow as well as planning.

For many, sleeping all day, arriving at a go go / bar at night (punctuality even difficult for many of these girls), drink, smoke?, look for what is considered easy fast money, mingle with seasoned girls, many of which are low life scammers, mingle with male customers, some with serious issues themselves.. Usually they're personal development deteriorates, but they are adults and they chose to do that, for whatever reasons. And thus the CIRCLE of ignorance and going nowhere perpetuates itself, for generations.

[powderpuff]

Sex with underage kids is bad. Any questions?

[AZBill]

It was mentioned in the other thread that foreigners are not exposed to this type of lifestyle.

Have you ever been to Vegas, Los Angeles, Amsterdam, Frankfurt's Redlight district, or The Wall in Nuremberg? I'm sure there are a lot more.

I doubt Thailand invented this industry.

You are absolutely right on this. I don't know about the rest of the world but the US has far more underage prostitution and prostitution in general than Thailand. This is our dirty little secret no one wants to talk about, but at the same time we lecture other countries about their human rights abuses. It happens for the same reason it does anywhere - addiction and poverty. This may come as a complete shock to the Thai members, but there are millions of Americans living in extreme poverty. Take a tour (if you dare) through any of the inner city projects, barrios and ghettos, or go to the hill country and bayous of the deep South, and you would swear you are in a thrid world country. I think the big difference in the US is that our society is far less accepting of such behavior, law enforement will actually do something about such child abuse and the Johns don't typically take up with and marry their hookers ( but to be fair if the American hookers looked like the Thai hookers maybe things would be different. Have you ever seen some of the American hookers? Yikes!). Otherwise the problem in the US is far more widespread and pervasive based on documentaries I have seen on the matter citing the statistics. More enforcement like that described in the article is a good thing and I would love to see more of it with real prosecutions.

Edited February 17, 2011 by AZBill

[luckizuchinni]

Pattaya has an estimated 20,000 prostitutes. With a population of something a little over 100,000, that gives a rate of 20%. Even given some shaky figures, that far exceeds the 1% as listed above in Amsterdam or Zurich.

Actually most people put the population of Pattaya between 300k and 500k depending on the season. The stat you are quoting are coming from household registration numbers.

I am also curious to where you got the number 20k for number of prostitutes in Pattaya.

According to Wikipedia ...

The 2001 report by the World Health Organisation: "The most reliable suggestion is that there are between 150,000 and 200,000 sex workers."

A recent government survey found that there were 76,000 to 77,000 adult prostitutes in registered entertainment establishments;

the NGOs believed there were between 200,000 and 300,000 prostitutes.

Somehow I don't believe that approx. 10% of prostitutes in Thailand are based in Pattaya ... but I never counted or considered it much before this.

It is a little dated, but http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/thailand.htm

Even if the number is grossly exaggerated, though, and even if we take the larger number of 500k, which I think is inflated, there would only be 5,000 prostitutes in Pattaya to reach Amsterdam's ratio. And I think we all can agree that there are more than that.

The actual number is just that, a number. But I just wanted to point out that your contention that there is a higher percentage of prostitutes in Amsterdam and Zurich than are in Bangkok and Pattaya is a little misguided.

[pjclark1]

A friend has 6 brothers and sisters, come from a Issan rice farming family, all brothers and sisters are uni grads, engineers, nurses, etc etc. All the children do indeed help their parents however none of them have experience in the sex for money business.

How could you possibly know?

Most of the student p4p sex workers keep it very quiet, not every pro gets covered in tattoos.

Nurses are often found freelancing in ChiangMai (Spicy and Hotshots, to name a couple of venues)

@Nisa

Even someone of limited intelligence would know that farang is a (racist) term used to describe white people.

Your insult aimed at 'smelly fat old farangs' was entirely racist in it's content and demeaning towards white men (by implication), in other words against forum rules!

Edited February 17, 2011 by pjclark1

[Nisa]

Pattaya has an estimated 20,000 prostitutes. With a population of something a little over 100,000, that gives a rate of 20%. Even given some shaky figures, that far exceeds the 1% as listed above in Amsterdam or Zurich.

Actually most people put the population of Pattaya between 300k and 500k depending on the season. The stat you are quoting are coming from household registration numbers.

I am also curious to where you got the number 20k for number of prostitutes in Pattaya.

According to Wikipedia ...

The 2001 report by the World Health Organisation: "The most reliable suggestion is that there are between 150,000 and 200,000 sex workers."

A recent government survey found that there were 76,000 to 77,000 adult prostitutes in registered entertainment establishments;

the NGOs believed there were between 200,000 and 300,000 prostitutes.

Somehow I don't believe that approx. 10% of prostitutes in Thailand are based in Pattaya ... but I never counted or considered it much before this.

It is a little dated, but http://www.uri.edu/a...es/thailand.htm

Even if the number is grossly exaggerated, though, and even if we take the larger number of 500k, which I think is inflated, there would only be 5,000 prostitutes in Pattaya to reach Amsterdam's ratio. And I think we all can agree that there are more than that.

The actual number is just that, a number. But I just wanted to point out that your contention that there is a higher percentage of prostitutes in Amsterdam and Zurich than are in Bangkok and Pattaya is a little misguided.

You made me break out the calculator to be sure but 10% of 300k is 30,000 and 500k is 50,000

[Nisa]

Even someone of limited intelligence would know that farang is a (racist) term used to describe white people.

Your insult aimed at 'smelly fat old farangs' was entirely racist in it's content and demeaning towards white men (by implication), in other words against forum rules!

I urge you to report this fat old farang

Edit: I also urge you to edit the Wikipedia page for us people of limited intelligence. Here is the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farang

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[corkman]

I have been in thailand both as a tourist and an expat for over 10 yrs, and there is no doubt in my mind that the girls in bars which service farangs are actually quite happy to be there particularly in tourist areas. I was in one such beer-bar last night (drinking only) and all the girls was laughing and giggling, and dancing around. Sure they are pro's and so a lot of that is an act, but I am very good at spotting human behaviour etc. And there was no cracks in their act.... Thay really were having fun (without a client in sight). Now go into Robinsons where have the staff are uni-grads and see can you spot a single one smiling? The miserable sods! Now I am not saying that all girls should grow up, be a prostitute, and hence be happy.... But what I am saying is that it is not as bad as some would have us believe, and they are there by choice and preference! Our western values base simply does not let most farangs accept that.

[Nisa]

I got curious and looked it up ...

The "Entertainment Places Act of 1966" is one of the modern laws regulating massage parlors, go-go bars, karaoke bars, bathhouses and similar establishments. Under this law such establishments are required to be licensed. The law does not expressedly permit prostitution, but allows for "service providers" and "bath service providers," differentiated from regular, non-sexual service staff. For example, there are massage parlors where men come and look at women, who are sitting separated by a glass wall (known as a "fishbowl"), and may choose whom they want. The women go to a room where they bathe and massage the customers, but in reality may do much more than that.

The Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act, B.E. 2539 (1996) (the “Prostitution Law”), is the central legal framework prohibiting prostitution. The law defines prostitution as any act done to gratify the sexual desire of another in exchange for money or any other benefit, but only if it is done “in a promiscuous manner”. The Prostitution Law does not define what exactly a “promiscuous manner” constitutes, and the act of prostitution by itself is not outlawed anymore, while solicitation is. The crime of solicitation is vaguely defined.

A person soliciting the services of a prostitute is liable under the Prostitution Law if the solicitation is done “openly and shamelessly or causes a nuisance to the public”, the penalty being a fine of up to 1,000 baht.

[Spee]

Anyone involved in the abuse and maltreatment of children should be given the harshest of legal and societal discipline. One thing I didn't see too much of in this thread was people being pissed off at the relatives. Selling a child to a stranger for money knowing full well the life that lies ahead for them, has got to be in the top 10 list of most cruel things that one human being can do to another. The bar owners and patrons are just parasites festering in an open wound. The relatives should receive societal scorn and legal punishment.

[mark45y]

How is this even news worthy? I was just on Koh Samui for a month. My classmates and I went out on different occasions to Lamai and Chawang for drinks. In Lamai there is a central square of bars around a Thai boxing ring. On any given night there are perhaps 100 girls (and ladyboys), give or take, working at these bars. All of them dressed like hookers and dancing on the poles installed in each tiny open air establishment. Many were open and fairly brazen about what they were there for. I decided to do my own research and bought a drink for the 20ish looking waitress who had been serving us a drinks and said I wanted her to join me for a while. She spoke fairly good English. She went into sales mode instantly but I calmed her anticipated action and said I want to talk for a while first. She was actually 30 and has a 12 year old son and 8 year old daughter back home in Isaan. She had been on Samui for 6 months already and claimed she was saving to go home. (Grain of salt taken) I asked how much to spend the night with her. 300 baht to the bar and 1000 baht to her. I asked how many other girls do I have to choose from. "Any one you see" was the answer. I asked how many were local girls. "Not many" was the answer. I estimate, from what I saw, that besides these 100 or so in this square, there were maybe another 200 in Lamai and the club scene in Chawang having at least that many as well. Point being, how is a bust on one tiny club involving a whopping 13 girls even worth talking about? And as we all know, this does not even represent a real bust. Perhaps the proprietors missed a payment to the local cops or to the local mafia. At any rate, there are thousands of girls across Thailand selling their wares on a daily basis without even feigning discretion due to fear of being caught let alone needing to be "freed" from their "captors". Although many girls would prefer not to be doing this kind of "work", they are certainly not being forced into it. It is relatively easy money and easy to get into. Sympathy? Sympathetic about the whole situation, but these girls are making their own choices.

You might want to do a little bit more research regarding how the Girls would like to be employed. My Wife runs a small business and we needed a couple of helpers and having a Thai Wife, thought it would keep life simple if we had a couple of Thai Girls. Try as we may to find a couple to employ them, we had no luck, so I "volunteered" (I know, no sacrifice is to great for my Lovely Wife), to cruise around the Girlie Bars because I was led to believe there are quite a few Isaan Girls working there. Now, you can't just go barging in there and say "anyone want a job?" That's a bit rude, so I hung around and played a couple of games of pool and bought a couple of drinks and then when I was feeling quite relaxed, asked if any of them fancied a job. Basically they are Housekeeping appointments and we were prepared to pay 5,500 as a staring salary, progressing each three months to 7,500 baht. No one was interested. It transpires that most of them would prefer to stay working in the bars because every night is a party night and they also hope to meet a future foreign husband who will then give them a comfortable life.

Just because somebody doesn't want to work at a non-secure job with you & your wife and leave a back breaking job where they make 5 times more is no indication that they like their current job. It is more likely they depend on the money that job brings.

These girls also need to think about their future. They mostly have no real education and when older can only expect to receive the government 500 baht a month social security which most don't even know exists since you need to make at least 20,000 baht a month to even pay taxes here.

Does working as a prostitute and having sex with smelly fat old farangs have an effect on young girl's mind and self-esteem ... certainly it does but you are sadly mistaken if you think that the girls or women get into prostitution do it because they think it is fun because this is simply not the case for the vast majority of them.

The bar in question was never visited by any Falangs smelly fat or otherwise. Like 95% of the Prostitution in Thailand it is funded and supported exclusively by Thai men. Prostitution in Thailand is a Thai problem. Falangs don't make up a significant portion of the business, 5%. The same with drug abuse or gambling, crime and corruption. Simply put all Thai problems.

[Nisa]

Somebody who knows for sure can correct me but I believe the law actually allows for prostitution (they may call it something else) in entertainment areas such as Soi Cowboy, Nana and massage parlors. In fact I believe there are regulations regarding the girls having current medical check-ups ans stuff.

No

Lol, yea sounds real illegal -- from the News Article this thread is based ...

Culture Ministry Inspector-General Preecha Kanthiya said ...... that if application was made to the Culture Ministry, the bar must not have prostitutes and alcoholic drinks - while those offering girls and drinks must apply to the much-stricter Interior Ministry.

[Nisa]

You might want to do a little bit more research regarding how the Girls would like to be employed. My Wife runs a small business and we needed a couple of helpers and having a Thai Wife, thought it would keep life simple if we had a couple of Thai Girls. Try as we may to find a couple to employ them, we had no luck, so I "volunteered" (I know, no sacrifice is to great for my Lovely Wife), to cruise around the Girlie Bars because I was led to believe there are quite a few Isaan Girls working there. Now, you can't just go barging in there and say "anyone want a job?" That's a bit rude, so I hung around and played a couple of games of pool and bought a couple of drinks and then when I was feeling quite relaxed, asked if any of them fancied a job. Basically they are Housekeeping appointments and we were prepared to pay 5,500 as a staring salary, progressing each three months to 7,500 baht. No one was interested. It transpires that most of them would prefer to stay working in the bars because every night is a party night and they also hope to meet a future foreign husband who will then give them a comfortable life.

Just because somebody doesn't want to work at a non-secure job with you & your wife and leave a back breaking job where they make 5 times more is no indication that they like their current job. It is more likely they depend on the money that job brings.

These girls also need to think about their future. They mostly have no real education and when older can only expect to receive the government 500 baht a month social security which most don't even know exists since you need to make at least 20,000 baht a month to even pay taxes here.

Does working as a prostitute and having sex with smelly fat old farangs have an effect on young girl's mind and self-esteem ... certainly it does but you are sadly mistaken if you think that the girls or women get into prostitution do it because they think it is fun because this is simply not the case for the vast majority of them.

The bar in question was never visited by any Falangs smelly fat or otherwise. Like 95% of the Prostitution in Thailand it is funded and supported exclusively by Thai men. Prostitution in Thailand is a Thai problem. Falangs don't make up a significant portion of the business, 5%. The same with drug abuse or gambling, crime and corruption. Simply put all Thai problems.

Replace the word "farangs" with "males" and maybe the point won't be lost on you or maybe you believe because they weren't fat smelly old farangs that the girls found the work enjoyable.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[caf]

Is this a personal argument or can anyone join in

Or better till get back on topic

[mark45y]

Somebody who knows for sure can correct me but I believe the law actually allows for prostitution (they may call it something else) in entertainment areas such as Soi Cowboy, Nana and massage parlors. In fact I believe there are regulations regarding the girls having current medical check-ups ans stuff.

No

Lol, yea sounds real illegal -- from the News Article this thread is based ...

Culture Ministry Inspector-General Preecha Kanthiya said ...... that if application was made to the Culture Ministry, the bar must not have prostitutes and alcoholic drinks - while those offering girls and drinks must apply to the much-stricter Interior Ministry.

You asked if the girls have to get medical check ups. The answer is no.

[BOS2BKK]

Have you ever been to Vegas, Los Angeles, Amsterdam, Frankfurt's Redlight district, or The Wall in Nuremberg? I'm sure there are a lot more.

I doubt Thailand invented this industry.

True. Thailand neither invented prostitution, nor karaoke bars. Then again, I doubt that you'll find 13-year old prostitutes (this fact perhaps even being known by some government officials) in Amsterdam, Frankfurt or the US. Nor will parents in those places sell their teenage daughters to brothels.

Hmmm I can guarantee you can get a 13yr old in the USA. Not sure about the other places. I don't think they buy girls as much as they capture them.

Agree. I am guessing it might be easier here but I personally have never seen underage girls working out in the open here either ... at least not in BKK at places like Nana and Cowboy. Didn't check IDs but generally Thais look considerably younger than they are ... not older.

If you are not seeing them it is because you choose not too. I was on one of the Rainbows at Nana 2 weeks ago. The Mama san was pushing a new girl on me, I told her that she looked like a baby, how old was she? The mamasan replied openly without a second thought, that she was old enough to work, she was 15...this was January so coupled with the Thai custom of calling yourself the age you turn in that year, there was a very good chance that she was in reality 14, turning 15 this year. I know of a 15 year old girl working in Sheeba on Cowboy, and a 17 YO working in Rawhide. Alot of them will tell you with only a little prodding. I accidentally took home a 16YO from Apache bar back when it was still a gogo. As we walked into my hotel she became really concerned about whether they would check ID's. I pressed her on it, and she admitted she was only 16. I gave her half the money agreed and sent her on her way. I have no desire to wind up in jail. These are only a couple of anecdotes from my recent personal experience. I wonder if people rally started looking hom many more they would find?

I am all for the lifestyle here. I think what adults do is their own business. One thing we have to accept to some degree or another is that different cultures have different ideas of what is an adult. Until the Thais change their ideal of a girl bring sexually mature at 14 or 15 then you will always be seeing this.

[mark45y]

You might want to do a little bit more research regarding how the Girls would like to be employed. My Wife runs a small business and we needed a couple of helpers and having a Thai Wife, thought it would keep life simple if we had a couple of Thai Girls. Try as we may to find a couple to employ them, we had no luck, so I "volunteered" (I know, no sacrifice is to great for my Lovely Wife), to cruise around the Girlie Bars because I was led to believe there are quite a few Isaan Girls working there. Now, you can't just go barging in there and say "anyone want a job?" That's a bit rude, so I hung around and played a couple of games of pool and bought a couple of drinks and then when I was feeling quite relaxed, asked if any of them fancied a job. Basically they are Housekeeping appointments and we were prepared to pay 5,500 as a staring salary, progressing each three months to 7,500 baht. No one was interested. It transpires that most of them would prefer to stay working in the bars because every night is a party night and they also hope to meet a future foreign husband who will then give them a comfortable life.

Just because somebody doesn't want to work at a non-secure job with you & your wife and leave a back breaking job where they make 5 times more is no indication that they like their current job. It is more likely they depend on the money that job brings.

These girls also need to think about their future. They mostly have no real education and when older can only expect to receive the government 500 baht a month social security which most don't even know exists since you need to make at least 20,000 baht a month to even pay taxes here.

Does working as a prostitute and having sex with smelly fat old farangs have an effect on young girl's mind and self-esteem ... certainly it does but you are sadly mistaken if you think that the girls or women get into prostitution do it because they think it is fun because this is simply not the case for the vast majority of them.

The bar in question was never visited by any Falangs smelly fat or otherwise. Like 95% of the Prostitution in Thailand it is funded and supported exclusively by Thai men. Prostitution in Thailand is a Thai problem. Falangs don't make up a significant portion of the business, 5%. The same with drug abuse or gambling, crime and corruption. Simply put all Thai problems.

Replace the word "farangs" with "males" and maybe the point won't be lost on you or maybe you believe because they weren't fat smelly old farangs that the girls found the work enjoyable.

Wrong. Replace the word with Thai males. Prostitution in Thailand is 95% Thai males. The bar in question was a Thai bar and 100% of the customers were Thai males.

[Nisa]

Somebody who knows for sure can correct me but I believe the law actually allows for prostitution (they may call it something else) in entertainment areas such as Soi Cowboy, Nana and massage parlors. In fact I believe there are regulations regarding the girls having current medical check-ups ans stuff.

No

Lol, yea sounds real illegal -- from the News Article this thread is based ...

Culture Ministry Inspector-General Preecha Kanthiya said ...... that if application was made to the Culture Ministry, the bar must not have prostitutes and alcoholic drinks - while those offering girls and drinks must apply to the much-stricter Interior Ministry.

You asked if the girls have to get medical check ups. The answer is no.

Actually I didn't. I asked about it being legal but thanks for the clarification.

[inmysights]

Anyone involved in the abuse and maltreatment of children should be given the harshest of legal and societal discipline. One thing I didn't see too much of in this thread was people being pissed off at the relatives. Selling a child to a stranger for money knowing full well the life that lies ahead for them, has got to be in the top 10 list of most cruel things that one human being can do to another. The bar owners and patrons are just parasites festering in an open wound. The relatives should receive societal scorn and legal punishment.

I agree Spee but as you can see, as usual, 'forum members' are far too wrapped up in their own petty vendettas/vested interests to give a rat's.

[mark45y]

Anyone involved in the abuse and maltreatment of children should be given the harshest of legal and societal discipline. One thing I didn't see too much of in this thread was people being pissed off at the relatives. Selling a child to a stranger for money knowing full well the life that lies ahead for them, has got to be in the top 10 list of most cruel things that one human being can do to another. The bar owners and patrons are just parasites festering in an open wound. The relatives should receive societal scorn and legal punishment.

These women came from an area where women get married at 12. Maybe you should try changing their customs. But they might get upset because women always married at 12 years of age in that area. Go ahead you tell em it's wrong and their history and traditions are outdated.

[Nisa]

Anyone involved in the abuse and maltreatment of children should be given the harshest of legal and societal discipline. One thing I didn't see too much of in this thread was people being pissed off at the relatives. Selling a child to a stranger for money knowing full well the life that lies ahead for them, has got to be in the top 10 list of most cruel things that one human being can do to another. The bar owners and patrons are just parasites festering in an open wound. The relatives should receive societal scorn and legal punishment.

I agree Spee but as you can see, as usual, 'forum members' are far too wrapped up in their own petty vendettas/vested interests to give a rat's.

Actually I think, at least for most of us, it is simply something that doesn't needed to be stated. There are some whose posts I have to question in terms of hinting at advocating this is okay here in Thailand but I do believe the majority simply believe it is just not worth stating the obvious repeatedly ... at least I hope that is the case.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts as well as bickering posts have been removed.

[TAWP]

You asked if the girls have to get medical check ups. The answer is no.

The answer is: Depends on place.

[inmysights]

Anyone involved in the abuse and maltreatment of children should be given the harshest of legal and societal discipline. One thing I didn't see too much of in this thread was people being pissed off at the relatives. Selling a child to a stranger for money knowing full well the life that lies ahead for them, has got to be in the top 10 list of most cruel things that one human being can do to another. The bar owners and patrons are just parasites festering in an open wound. The relatives should receive societal scorn and legal punishment.

These women came from an area where women get married at 12. Maybe you should try changing their customs. But they might get upset because women always married at 12 years of age in that area. Go ahead you tell em it's wrong and their history and traditions are outdated.

A 12 year old CHILD is neither a woman nor a man. Have you ever met any?

[mark45y]

Anyone involved in the abuse and maltreatment of children should be given the harshest of legal and societal discipline. One thing I didn't see too much of in this thread was people being pissed off at the relatives. Selling a child to a stranger for money knowing full well the life that lies ahead for them, has got to be in the top 10 list of most cruel things that one human being can do to another. The bar owners and patrons are just parasites festering in an open wound. The relatives should receive societal scorn and legal punishment.

I agree Spee but as you can see, as usual, 'forum members' are far too wrapped up in their own petty vendettas/vested interests to give a rat's.

Actually I think, at least for most of us, it is simply something that doesn't needed to be stated. There are some whose posts I have to question in terms of hinting at advocating this is okay here in Thailand but I do believe the majority simply believe it is just not worth stating the obvious repeatedly ... at least I hope that is the case.

I don't think anyone is saying that. At least not me. These women were taken from an area where women get married quite young and always have. It is a Thai hill tribe thing. Not a Falang thing. If the Thai police wanted to do something about it they should enforce the legal marriage age in the area which they don't. But in any event it is a Thai problem. Our western age traditions are not the same but western men are not involved in this scenario anyway. I don't know the bar and don't know if the women were held captive either by steel bars or contractual obligations. I do know that the women who work at Falang owned bars in Pattaya are not held captive.

[Nisa]

inmysights and spee ... As I said to you before "most" of us

I hope the above was simply a slip of the keyboard but looking back at a number of posts I do get the distinct impression there are not so subtle hints of some people not seeing the underage part as an issue

Edit: after posting this I see yet another post that seems to be justifying underage girls working in the sex industry. So, I apologize as both of your condemnations seem very appropriate and my positive thinking of others here may not be all that correct.

Edited February 17, 2011 by Nisa

[mark45y]

Anyone involved in the abuse and maltreatment of children should be given the harshest of legal and societal discipline. One thing I didn't see too much of in this thread was people being pissed off at the relatives. Selling a child to a stranger for money knowing full well the life that lies ahead for them, has got to be in the top 10 list of most cruel things that one human being can do to another. The bar owners and patrons are just parasites festering in an open wound. The relatives should receive societal scorn and legal punishment.

These women came from an area where women get married at 12. Maybe you should try changing their customs. But they might get upset because women always married at 12 years of age in that area. Go ahead you tell em it's wrong and their history and traditions are outdated.

A 12 year old CHILD is neither a woman nor a man. Have you ever met any?

I am not saying they are. Hill tribe people refer to them as women because they are married. It is not my idea. It is a Thai hill tribe thing. Don't believe me go look. Find females wearing white in the villages and ask them how old they are. But don't get mad at me. Because I report a custom does not mean I agree with it. I don't like the rings around the neck thing either.