Miguels Done By The Bib Last Night

[Contractor]

I don't get it. It's one day. Really people can't drink for one day, that some bars try to stay open? Or is it that they assume they will get away with it.

Selective or not, why take the risk is the point? If they were close, another bar would have got done. Simple.

Even trying to sneak through 'back doors', why? It's one frikin day.

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

You should rethink your comment!

Stop whining. If you run a bar, you should know the law where you operate and factor it in to your business plan.

I do not think the law is a particuarly great idea, but most people can plan ahead.

[uptheos]

I notice that quite a few places just don't bother opening on such holidays and give staff a day off with pay.

They are probably the places doing very well and know from previous experience that people will return anyway. They obviously can afford to lose the business for that day and stand the few hundred baht wage loss.

However, they are far and few between and I certainly do understand the need for most places to stay open, to try to make ends meet and how angry and frustrated, owners must get over these laws......although in fairness they have been in effect for a very long time, enforced or not. I'm sure anyone setting up a business involving alcohol, would be aware and build this cost factor in.

Laws can't be written on the basis that a certain country's currency might devalue.

I agree with the comment about Malaysia and only enforcing the law on followers of that particular religion.

Personally, I think people should be able to drink 24/7......but I'm not the law.

[tijnebijn]

I don't get it. It's one day. Really people can't drink for one day, that some bars try to stay open? Or is it that they assume they will get away with it.

Selective or not, why take the risk is the point? If they were close, another bar would have got done. Simple.

Even trying to sneak through 'back doors', why? It's one frikin day.

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

You should rethink your comment!

Wel written , straight forward , the truth regarding the lack of consideration on the side of the authorities to help and give a hand to small business ownwers , local or foreign , although my wife did not have to pay for the last couple of income taxes from the current government , which was very helpful .

Still as Millwall is saying ,the bills are still running and nobody cares , so business growth is very hard , so does the growth of the revenue department because of this . Common sense is much needed , if it were Thailand would be as good as Japan , without the dept.......

[WinnieTheKhwai]

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

Well, as far as the staff I'd build that into their leave structure when you hire them. They would get X days off, plus the Darkness Days. Especially for election days that works well for the staff as well, as they get to go home and make some money on their vote; that essentially pays for their trip home.

On a side note, your place is just as much a restaurant as Chiang Mai Saloon is, and Mad Dog. I'm now wondering if naming that place a 'saloon' was absolute brilliance: when you name it pub or bar then the police will want to shut it down, but 'saloon'...? Never heard if it. They probably told the BIB that it means 'restaurant' in American English.

Edited February 19, 2011 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Lancelot]

About 10 days ago I was in the Chiang Mai Saloon on Loi Kroh at 2:30 pm. I ordered a beer with my lunch and the waitress put my beer in a glass, then the glass inside a cooler to hide the contents. She kept mine and other patrons undrunk beer behind the bar out of site.

When I asked about no beer being served openly, she pointed to one of those stickers they have in 7-11 listing the times for sales of alcohol.

I went in again yesterday at 2:30 pm and serving beer was no problem and beer bottles could be openly displayed.

So I can empathise with Miguels, they are doing the best they can, walking a fine line between serving their customers and obeying a selectively enforced law. TIT

[PlanetX]

The best way to get a law changed is to no longer comply with it -- if enough people do this then they wont have a chance to selectively enforce it

[PlanetX]

Stop whining. If you run a bar, you should know the law where you operate and factor it in to your business plan.

I do not think the law is a particuarly great idea, but most people can plan ahead.

You dont by chance work for one of those contracting companies that illegally rape and pillage war-torn countries

[CMX]

Stop whining. If you run a bar, you should know the law where you operate and factor it in to your business plan.

I do not think the law is a particuarly great idea, but most people can plan ahead.

"You dont by chance work for one of those contracting companies that illegally rape and pillage war-torn countries

That or worse - an MBA

[Semper]

I don't get it. It's one day. Really people can't drink for one day, that some bars try to stay open? Or is it that they assume they will get away with it.

Selective or not, why take the risk is the point? If they were close, another bar would have got done. Simple.

Even trying to sneak through 'back doors', why? It's one frikin day.

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

You should rethink your comment!

Stop whining. If you run a bar, you should know the law where you operate and factor it in to your business plan.

I do not think the law is a particuarly great idea, but most people can plan ahead.

[PlanetX]

I don't get it. It's one day. Really people can't drink for one day, that some bars try to stay open? Or is it that they assume they will get away with it.

Selective or not, why take the risk is the point? If they were close, another bar would have got done. Simple.

Even trying to sneak through 'back doors', why? It's one frikin day.

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

You should rethink your comment!

Stop whining. If you run a bar, you should know the law where you operate and factor it in to your business plan.

I do not think the law is a particuarly great idea, but most people can plan ahead.

Knowing the law in Thailand is like knowing the tax code in the US

To say that bar owners should understand the system means you obviously dont have experience with "the system"

Edited February 19, 2011 by PlanetX

[jayjay0]

>>Lets see. An owner of an establishment that is willing to gamble a 500,000 to 5 million baht investment Just to take in an extra 5,000 baht to satisfy the none investor or booze crowd. Yea that makes all the since in the world

Down in Phuket anyway, the fine for this has been 10,000 baht, as someone told me that got pinched a few years ago.

I know that booze is a money maker but in a restaurant like M's it is the food that brings in the customers and the big money.

I can not see where one days profit on booze would be worth the chance. It's not like he was selling candy for 50 Baht a piece :jap:.

[sbk]

totally baseless and inflammatory allegations have been removed. Do not re-post defamatory rumors based on nothing but your own suppositions.

[heybruce]

I find this all amusing:

The customers at Miguel's, Miguel's Express, and many other places, found a place selling food and drink and assumed it was OK to partake.

The franchiser at Miguel's, and many other places, stayed open selling food and drink and no one made a fuss about it.

The franchisee at Miguel's Express did the same, got a slap on the wrist, and got on with business.

Here's the funny part: The TV fans, with no serious interest in the matter, get tied up in a knot about the whole affair.

Surely you must find this a little humorous.

[orang37]

snip ... Surely you must find this a little humorous.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun HeyBruce,

No, can't say we do find this humorous. Nothing funny to us about the "manageress" of a Miguel's being taken away by the Police, and nothing funny about hard-working farangs that invest here, work hard to develop successful businesses, often marry Thai, and integrate into the community, and provide jobs for Thais: in their being held to different standards of behavior than Thais are held to when they operate businesses inside Thailand or "farang" countries.

Were we were running a business selling alcohol here, yes, we would not sell alcohol on proscribed days to avoid the possible consequences: however, if we were also having to pay "tea money" to stay in business, or deal with the typical hassles of a farang running a business here, juggling work-permits, and visas, and watched our Thai competitors ignoring the law: yeah, we'd be righteously ticked off.

Here's a story Khun Opas Goes Down of the recent downfall of a Thai entrepeneur, operating a chain of restaurants, in America, who's now been busted and is having all his assets confiscated: will do some jail time before deportation, and will have to pay his Thai employees the 26 to 32 hours of overtime he demanded they work, for which he never paid them.

He probably came to America on an E-1 NIV visa, for 'treaty traders' or, an E-2 visa for 'treaty investors,' which would have allowed residence two years at a time, and also allowed him to bring Thai staff over for two years at a time.

America gave him every freedom to create and operate multiple businesses, and he "gamed the system" for everything it was worth. That's not funny either.

best, ~o:37;

[ThaiPauly]

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

Well, as far as the staff I'd build that into their leave structure when you hire them. They would get X days off, plus the Darkness Days. Especially for election days that works well for the staff as well, as they get to go home and make some money on their vote; that essentially pays for their trip home.

On a side note, your place is just as much a restaurant as Chiang Mai Saloon is, and Mad Dog. I'm now wondering if naming that place a 'saloon' was absolute brilliance: when you name it pub or bar then the police will want to shut it down, but 'saloon'...? Never heard if it. They probably told the BIB that it means 'restaurant' in American English.

Or maybe "Beauty Salon"?

[ThaiPauly]

Had a situation a few years back on a no alcohol day when we had a restuarant near the new Dutch one.

7 pm there is a knok on the office door, two blokes standing there saying "We want whisky" My Wife says, sorry can't serve you alcohol today He snaps bac,"I am big Police" and pulls out his ID card. "Don't worry ,you get no trouble if I am here"

What can you do in a situation like that but knuckle under under?

[uptheos]

Had a situation a few years back on a no alcohol day when we had a restuarant near the new Dutch one.

7 pm there is a knok on the office door, two blokes standing there saying "We want whisky" My Wife says, sorry can't serve you alcohol today He snaps bac,"I am big Police" and pulls out his ID card. "Don't worry ,you get no trouble if I am here"

What can you do in a situation like that but knuckle under under?

And I bet they wanted it in a glass not a cup!

[LJW]

Had a situation a few years back on a no alcohol day when we had a restuarant near the new Dutch one.

7 pm there is a knok on the office door, two blokes standing there saying "We want whisky" My Wife says, sorry can't serve you alcohol today He snaps bac,"I am big Police" and pulls out his ID card. "Don't worry ,you get no trouble if I am here"

What can you do in a situation like that but knuckle under under?

You can say, sorry, NO!

What do you think will happen? He will do something?

Not likely, in my opinion. Nobody is going to give you a problem on this day if you don't provide (or don't have alcohol)

[appropriate]

Decide to do business in Thailand. Decide to adhere to the laws of Thailand.

Not rocket science.

[appropriate]

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

You should rethink your comment!

If you decide to do business with such laws affecting it you need to accept it or get into something else.

Did you not know about the no alcohol on buddhist holidays, and the fickleness of Thai law to change (no drinking during election days) beforehand?

[uptheos]

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

You should rethink your comment!

If you decide to do business with such laws affecting it you need to accept it or get into something else.

Did you not know about the no alcohol on buddhist holidays, and the fickleness of Thai law to change (no drinking during election days) beforehand?

Good points.

If a person decides to live here with all it's fickleness, loss and change are very likely to kick in at some point, whether it is in business or private life.

My old dad used to say, if you can't gamble and take the loss on the chin......then don't bet!

Thailand can be a bit like that.

[appropriate]

If you decide to do business with such laws affecting it you need to accept it or get into something else.

Did you not know about the no alcohol on buddhist holidays, and the fickleness of Thai law to change (no drinking during election days) beforehand?

Good points.

If a person decides to live here with all it's fickleness, loss and change are very likely to kick in at some point, whether it is in business or private life.

My old dad used to say, if you can't gamble and take the loss on the chin......then don't bet!

Thailand can be a bit like that.

I have three simple rules for living here:

Don't get involved in any business here except for as a hobby and bit of fun.

Don't invest anything here that I can't throw away.

Check for a 5 o'clock shadow, none? okay, go ahead luv.

[billd766]

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

You should rethink your comment!

Di he eat cow pie too?

If you decide to do business with such laws affecting it you need to accept it or get into something else.

Did you not know about the no alcohol on buddhist holidays, and the fickleness of Thai law to change (no drinking during election days) beforehand?

Good points.

If a person decides to live here with all it's fickleness, loss and change are very likely to kick in at some point, whether it is in business or private life.

My old dad used to say, if you can't gamble and take the loss on the chin......then don't bet!

Thailand can be a bit like that.

[uptheos]

If you decide to do business with such laws affecting it you need to accept it or get into something else.

Did you not know about the no alcohol on buddhist holidays, and the fickleness of Thai law to change (no drinking during election days) beforehand?

Good points.

If a person decides to live here with all it's fickleness, loss and change are very likely to kick in at some point, whether it is in business or private life.

My old dad used to say, if you can't gamble and take the loss on the chin......then don't bet!

Thailand can be a bit like that.

I have three simple rules for living here:

Don't get involved in any business here except for as a hobby and bit of fun.

Don't invest anything here that I can't throw away.

Check for a 5 o'clock shadow, none? okay, go ahead luv.

A very wise man.

[heybruce]

snip ... Surely you must find this a little humorous.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun HeyBruce,

No, can't say we do find this humorous. Nothing funny to us about the "manageress" of a Miguel's being taken away by the Police, and nothing funny about hard-working farangs that invest here, work hard to develop successful businesses, often marry Thai, and integrate into the community, and provide jobs for Thais: in their being held to different standards of behavior than Thais are held to when they operate businesses inside Thailand or "farang" countries.

Were we were running a business selling alcohol here, yes, we would not sell alcohol on proscribed days to avoid the possible consequences: however, if we were also having to pay "tea money" to stay in business, or deal with the typical hassles of a farang running a business here, juggling work-permits, and visas, and watched our Thai competitors ignoring the law: yeah, we'd be righteously ticked off.

Here's a story Khun Opas Goes Down of the recent downfall of a Thai entrepeneur, operating a chain of restaurants, in America, who's now been busted and is having all his assets confiscated: will do some jail time before deportation, and will have to pay his Thai employees the 26 to 32 hours of overtime he demanded they work, for which he never paid them.

He probably came to America on an E-1 NIV visa, for 'treaty traders' or, an E-2 visa for 'treaty investors,' which would have allowed residence two years at a time, and also allowed him to bring Thai staff over for two years at a time.

America gave him every freedom to create and operate multiple businesses, and he "gamed the system" for everything it was worth. That's not funny either.

best, ~o:37;

The manageress was taken the police station and given a warning. I haven't talked to her, but she's been doing business here for some time, I'm sure she's used to it and is fine. The story you provide a link to is about someone breaking U.S. immigration and labor laws in a big way. I don't see how it's relevant to this topic.

The point in my post was that TV members are getting far more worked up about the warning the police gave Miguel's Express than the managers and employees of Miguel's Express. And I still find that amusing.

[nikster]

The police enforcing the law. It's scandalous!! This is Thailand! You're not supposed to be enforcing the law!

[nikster]

I know that booze is a money maker but in a restaurant like M's it is the food that brings in the customers and the big money.

I guess you don't know Miguel Express on Nimman. I am no fan of the food - sorry just the way it is - but it's a really nice place to sit and have a drink and many people do just that.

As for those saying those anti-alcohol laws are silly and the government is doing nothing except losing everyone money and pissing everyone off - I totally agree. You will find me in a bar maybe once a month if at all - but may main qualm with all these laws is that they are totally pointless. They seem to come out of a misguided attempt to enforce some concept of virtue with the help of the law. The one I run into most is the selling of alcohol - successfully prevented my dear wife from buying wine when doing her sunday shopping many times - what was the point of that again??

[appropriate]

The one I run into most is the selling of alcohol - successfully prevented my dear wife from buying wine when doing her sunday shopping many times - what was the point of that again??

Remember one valentine's day shopping in the gourmet market in siam paragon, got everything to cook up a nice steak meal, in to buy the accompanying btl of wine....

They were all mortified as they saw me coming, look up to see the wine room darkened, stop in my tracks like I was hit with a hammer, then silently (or perhaps not) exclaim an 'Oh for fuks sake!!' while standing there agog....but hey, it was 3pm. Can't go buying a btl of wine on valentine's day at 3pm, never know the dangers that might cause.

Edited February 20, 2011 by appropriate

[millwall_fan]

it is certainly not 'just one day'. you obviously don't live in Chiang Mai. It happens a number of days a year on Buddhist holdays and Royal Birthdays and this year being an election year we stand to lose two whole weekends business. Let's hope Mr. Suthep is correct in stating that the election will be in June - the depths of the low season. No-one tells our landlady that we don't have to pay rent for the days we don't earn any money. no-one tells the electric company not to charge us for the electricity that runs our freezers which have to be left on even if we close. And most particularly what about our staff? Are we supposed to tell them to go and get their lost wages back from the government? Fat chance! Or do you propose that we pay them even if we don't earn any money? It's not about customers doing without drink for 'just one day' (Although if you're on a 2 week holiday you're likely to be pretty miffed at having to stay in your hotel room for the evening.) It's about small businesses struggling already under the weight of the strong baht and political turmoil, trying to make ends meet.

You should rethink your comment!

If you decide to do business with such laws affecting it you need to accept it or get into something else.

Did you not know about the no alcohol on buddhist holidays, and the fickleness of Thai law to change (no drinking during election days) beforehand?

No, we didn't know! when we opened 5 years ago, under Thai law we were only required to refrain from selling alcohol on the Saturday night before an election and even then there was an assumption that Farang orientated places could serve beer in coffee cups/tea pots etc

Now 5 years later, we can potentially lose 5 nights weekend trade for every election- and that's not just national elections - its every local parish council by-election, plus 4 Buddhist holidays plus 2 Royal birthdays. thats up to half a months lost trade. We run a small business and we work hard at it. We have to keep prices down in this difficult economic climate for our customers. It may be that some large bars and pubs are so fantastically successful that they can afford to close and pay their staff and cover all the costs. But we can't! And many other small businesses can't. We've also lost trade through military coups, SARS, bird Flu, airport closures, various coloured shirts, terrible air quality etc etc...and we're still here. and thriving. There have been some very thoughtful contributions to this thread and some really crass ones. Yours Sir, falls into the latter category.

[appropriate]

Good luck with it.

It's a fair example of why I believe the only business to get involved in in Thailand is one done as a hobby.